f*********t
发帖数: 15 | 1 比如做IT方面的，本科CS，硕士EE，个人感觉专业水平非常一般，做IP LAW有戏否？
如果将来想做其他方向，比如International law, corporate law啥的，我这个背景是
不是反而成了劣势？以前的背景和以后做的法律工作关系大吗？谢谢。 |
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a*********e
发帖数: 518 | 2 首先说明，下面所有的info来自于我向走过这条路的人打听到的信息，网上找到的资源
和自己的一些亲身感受。
对于理工科的MS/PHD来说，这条路的好处主要是经济上负担比较小和风险可控。从
career的发展上来看，大致经历technology specialist, part time/full time law
school，asscociate, partner这么几步。走这条路的话，80-90%的人最后可能是end
up做patent law，当然你也可以有条件转去做别的，如果想转的话,law school那一步
很重要。
先说说怎么起步吧。首先assume你有了理工科的MS/PHD，一般来说，PhD更好，有些专
业性很强的学科，比如生物，化学等等基本上是PhD required。另外，学校越牛越好，
这个我后面会详细说为什么。Research不用特别牛(牛人就去做AP了，谁还折腾这个)，
不过有那么几篇paper还是有不少加分的，postdoc或者工业界工作的经验也有加分。但
这些不是必须的。然后你就可以着手去找一些IP Firm的technology specialist职位了 |
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s*********y
发帖数: 52 | 3 非常感谢楼主分享这方面的path，也祝你拿到理想的job offer。
我有几个问题想请教一下：
1. 我读chemistry的phd program读了几年不想做research了，所以就拿了master，申
请了law school，今年8月开始读。做patent law一定要phd吗，还是只要有足够的技术
背景就可以呢
2. 关于patent bar。据说没有绿卡不能考，除非在patent law firm工作，而且似乎还
会过期。 关于过期是怎么规定的的？我是否可以找一个firm先短期实习一下，这样就
可以有资格考patent bar了。不知道楼主有什么建议？
多谢了！！ |
|
s*********y
发帖数: 52 | 4 非常感谢楼主分享这方面的path，也祝你拿到理想的job offer。
我有几个问题想请教一下：
1. 我读chemistry的phd program读了几年不想做research了，所以就拿了master，申
请了law school，今年8月开始读。做patent law一定要phd吗，还是只要有足够的技术
背景就可以呢
2. 关于patent bar。据说没有绿卡不能考，除非在patent law firm工作，而且似乎还
会过期。 关于过期是怎么规定的的？我是否可以找一个firm先短期实习一下，这样就
可以有资格考patent bar了。不知道楼主有什么建议？
多谢了！！ |
|
a*********e
发帖数: 518 | 5 nod，我觉得最多的做ip law可能是因为ip law转过去相对风险最小，另外理工科的背
景会派得上用场。
设想一个人读了N年的bio phd，甚至都做postdoc了，然后彻底放弃自己掏钱去考lsat
读law school还是
挺破釜沉舟的。 |
|
c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 6 Point taken. Most of the time when I hear "international law" I, and most
law school professors, I suspect, picture public international law. |
|
j***r
发帖数: 137 | 7 I remember someone said since the immgration law is federal law, so whatever
jurisdiction you are admittied, you can practice the immgration law in
other jurisdiction. Is it true??? |
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o*********s
发帖数: 275 | 8 I will go to law school this fall as well. Just got a letter from the dean,
here is the last paragraph:
"Before I close this letter, let me impart one more piece of advice. I know
that you will be tempted to try to get a head start on substantive law
study. You should resist the impulse. The first year of law school is
grueling enough as it is. Moreover, such efforts are likely to be confusing
or pointless, or both. You will be much better served by finding time to
simply relax."
If you wan |
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d********2
发帖数: 44 | 9 Suggestions
1) improve your reading speed and vocabulary. No need to read law-related
books. WSJ, Time, Newsweek, etc are all good ones. Focus a little bit on
political issues.
2) if you REALLY have time and REALLY want to get jump start, listen to PMBR
CDs (just for first semester classes), make an outline yourself by trying
to understand as much as possible. I know American law students who are so
determined that they takes bar preparation classes before law school. They
usually get highe |
|
a**d
发帖数: 31 | 10 I recommend this study to you: http://www.elsblog.org/the_empirical_legal_studi/2008/07/how-the-cravath.html
You will see that salaries in the legal profession follow a bi-modal
distribution. There are nearly as many 6-figure salary earning law grads as
"poor" law grads. Citing a low average salary as you did does not tell the
whole story. For reasonably diligent people who manage to get into a top-
tier law school and don't mind the hours and culture of biglaw, earning 160k
market salary is no |
|
F**********s
发帖数: 54 | 11 看了abcd等诸位先生的发言，我深为自已的言论感到悔恨。我不该介绍law school毕业
生的事实上的总体情况，因为这里大家大都是精英，大都是牛B的人物，大都LSAT能考
170或者175以上，大都只瞄准一流的law School及牛B的大firm去，也大都有能力进得
去一流的law school和牛B的大firm。我对你们的景仰，正如滔滔江水，川流不息~~！
我诚恳的祝愿各位第一年associate就拿17万的梦圆！ |
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l**********t
发帖数: 17 | 12 Not being able to find a boyfriend should be the last thing you need to
worry about when it comes to deciding whether to go to law school. You may
well find your soulmate among your law school classmates. That being said,
you need to seriously consider the pros and cons of choosing law as your
profession, esp. the cons such as the constant lack of control over your own
schedule, the need for native-speaker-level language skills, the long hours
, etc. Also, if I were you, I would only go to o |
|
g*******i
发帖数: 191 | 13 发信人: afternooncat (mao), 信区: Law
标 题: Re: Re: Re: 理工女想转law，新人求分析
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Fri Aug 1 22:24:24 2008)
这里发言的到底都是什么人啊，怎么这么多陈腐的观念？MM你不要听他们的，生命就这
么长，想转就勇敢的转，这行的就业前景还是非常不错的，虽然前期投入大，但是只要
能进入一流法学院，进入大律所的机会很大，虽然工作强度大，但起薪高，training特
别好，回国就业的前景也非常理想。
其实大家也不是观念陈腐,还是为了这个同学好,毕竟转行的风险要考虑,而且女生和男
生不一样,过了26可就是大龄了,个人问题不能忽视啊.
况且目前美国LAW SCHOOL的毕业生就业情况实在不怎么样,作为一个国际学生,想跟美国
人竞争就更加困难了.
大家都是好心啊. |
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D**********s
发帖数: 320 | 14 What's point of all this? Working for a good law firm is much much more
important than the law school you attend.
For law schools, there is no such thing as T15. T14 are the elite schools.
school |
|
m*******r
发帖数: 481 | 15 So that is point. FallenEmbers said it is not easy because the percentage is
so low for Chinese law people in top 14. But on the other hand, as
littlenorth said, b/c the so low percentage, the potential for Chinese
people in Law is huge. For that I believe. As China eloves into a superpower
globally, I believe more and more Chinese will appear in top 14 law schools
. See you there, guys, hehe.
account
what
there;
suspect
challenges |
|
l*****n
发帖数: 328 | 16 Well that is my point, going to bank gives you just as much or even more
earnings potential than practicing law, yet without having to pay for 3
years of law school tuition. So do you consider "with no grad degree"
a disadvantage?
Of course, if you don't want to work for a bank, that is a different story.
But why don't you? I mean, why do you want to work for a law firm but not a
bank, what is it about a bank that makes you not want to work there?
If you are worried about long work hours, don't |
|
d*****2
发帖数: 16 | 17 Many people go to law school because they want more stability in their
career. In a bad year, you are much more likely to get laid off as a trader
or banker than as a lawyer. Big law firms are committed to hiring new
associates each year regardless of market condition. However, at top b-
schools this year, many banks didn't even bother to show up (a few don't
even exist anymore).
At an international law firm in NYC or LA, your starting salary is around
140000-170000 USD plus about 30000-50000 in |
|
m*********e
发帖数: 26 | 18 ludiman所言至少是有一定道理的。他的point是：如果拿一个undergraduate degree就
能有如此这般的收入，为何还要去law school呢？我看至少从经济的角度看，这是一个
good point.考虑到law school的时间成本和金钱成本，就更make sense了。这里各位
似乎大都还先去读一个其它专业graduate degree,然后再绕一圈去读law school，即使
最后有了体面的工作，这些年你已经付出了多少年华，努力和金钱了？人生一共才多少
年？倘若各位当初college刚毕业的时候，摆在你面前两个选择，一个是轻易拿到
ludiman的结果，一个是费劲巴力花这些年时间也终于有了一份好的律师工作，各位就
都会选第二个吗？
各位的反驳一样有道理。有说我挣的钱比你多的，有说我就是喜欢当律师的，都是显而
易见的道理。然而大家对ludiman的态度基本上是嘲笑讥讽，另我看不下去。人家愿意
到这个版来提个看法，互相交流一下看法本身就是好的。大家的答复或不乏水准，但是
令人感觉到文字的背后的人却没有多少心胸。我看做人的素质和专业的素养是一样重要
的。 |
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i****y
发帖数: 5184 | 19 这个比较倒是挺有意思
But there is at least one difference. In law school, you buy your books,
supplements, study your
materials, do your outlines, ..., all in a way that is advocated by your
professor. What you learn and
how you learn are very much determined by who you have as your professor.
I don't understand why law schools advocate such a culture, given that bar
exam after law school and
later legal practice are going to be irrelevant to your professors'
preferences.
school.
for |
|
n***e
发帖数: 461 | 20 law schools and law professors obviously think cultivating a legal mind is
much more important than passing the bar, which is the most uninspiring of
all the law exams. |
|
n***e
发帖数: 461 | 21 IP law is also deadline driven.
IP law - you need to manage people (or be managed)
IP law - you can't work alone. politiking is much more important. |
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a********l
发帖数: 73 | 22 I'd like to know if it's possible to attend full-time law school while
working part-time. I'll be 1L in August, and considering my background (phd,
work experience in biotech industry, several patents), there's a good
chance I might get into patent law, but I'm not decided yet. From my
previous experience working with IP attorneys, this looks pretty boring to
me. But I'd like to find some part-time work in the field to cover some
living costs.
Is it possible to find a part-time job in an IP law |
|
i****y
发帖数: 5184 | 23 机会还是有的，只不过不是很多人想象的那么容易。
有一个jj曾经很兴奋得给我打电话，说听人说做patent attorney只需要本科得
technical学位，然后有law school学位，她
10年前读得是mechanical engineering得本科，之后一直做sales，是不是也可以进
firm做tech specialist，然后去读law
school。我只能说，可能，但是可能性很小。
虽然最近各个firm招人都放缓了，但还是有recruiter不断打来电话得，说明机会还是
有的。
science |
|
s**********3
发帖数: 1 | 24 Anybody here have experiences in Pierce law? I heard that IP at Pierce law
ranked pretty high nationally. how is the job placement rate after
graduating from Pierce law?
Thanks a lot! |
|
t*******n
发帖数: 71 | 25 This fall, law students are competing for half as many openings at big firms
as they were last year in what is shaping up to be the most wrenching job
search season in over 50 years, The New York Times’s Gerry Shih reports.
For students now, the promise of the big law firm career — and its
paychecks — is slipping through their fingers, forcing them to look at
lesser firms in smaller markets as well as opportunities in government or
with public interest groups, law school faculty and students say |
|
c*******i
发帖数: 951 | 26 Go to USD with free ride.
1)If you are committed to patent law, the fact that you are a PHD is more
important than which law school you attend.
2)There are tons of life science patent work in San Diego. And you are a
Bio person, which is a perfect fit. As a general rule, people should go
to law school where potential employers are. If a Bio person like you go
to Chicago, it will be very difficult to land a patent job as Midwest is
EE's world. |
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c*********n
发帖数: 52 | 27 Be careful with peencat's advice (not necessarily incorrect, but does not
seem right in this economy and in light of the changing legal market).
For IP, many large firms will have a separate, lower standard and focus more
on your technical background. For example, several years ago, someone I
know from law school got an IP offer from a Vault Top 10 law firm with
average grades, while the same law firm has a GPA cutoff (for non-IP) around
top 1/3 for my school. The prestige is not as important f |
|
b**********y
发帖数: 112 | 28 Sorry to bother.
Could someone tell me how how to distinguish criminal law and civil law ??? |
|
b**********y
发帖数: 112 | 29 Sorry to bother.
Looking for a law tutor. If anybody majors in law or has friends who major
in law, please reply with your contact information. Hourly pay is negotiable
. Teaching can be online
Thanks. |
|
o*********s
发帖数: 275 | 30 一般只有很小的所才叫 law office。 比如 law office of ABC，很可能只有ABC一个合伙人。 |
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n*********e
发帖数: 665 | 31 在中型化学公司做了几年研发，也投出了一两个专利，现在想转行做IP law(读law
school或者直接申请）请问IP law方向在new york city(因为LD在那教书）好找工作吗
？多谢！ |
|
p*******1
发帖数: 34 | 32 我的情况是PhD（Applied Physics & EE）即将毕业，现在在找工作的过程中。应该会
有工业界的offer。但是我同时也在考虑在一两年内转patent law（还没有确定，但是
我在积极了解这个行业中，觉得有一定的可能性）。
我的问题是，在这种情况下，我是毕业后先在工业界工作好呢，还是去试试大律所的
technical advisor的职位？
我目前还没有开始准备LSAT考试。如果计划明年秋季入学的话可能会尽量赶今年10月的
考试。毕业前事情很多，能开始准备考试应该也是7月份的事。
如果我先从事工业界的工作，那基本上一定要考一个很高的LSAT分数以尽量进一个top
law school。如果先去律所工作，好像law school的排名就不是很重要，part time念
的话学费也不会太紧张 （一般律所会support全部或部分学费么？）。
前面说的是法学院，如果从今后做patent attorney的角度来看，哪一种选择又会对职
业本身更有帮助呢？
还请过来人谈谈看法和建议。谢谢啦～ |
|
b********3
发帖数: 118 | 33 以前只知道court有law clerk，前几天看到一个律所也在招summer law clerk，是ip方
向的，就申请了。下周去面试。这
里有哪位前辈了解律所的law clerk和summer intern的区别吗？先谢了！ |
|
b*******r
发帖数: 1130 | 34 【 以下文字转载自 Accounting 讨论区 】
发信人: beckhamer (beckhamer), 信区: Accounting
标 题: 帮LD问问当年大家的biz law都是怎么学的？
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Sep 5 02:07:51 2011, 美东)
LD现在Community College学Accounting，这学期选了一门biz law很是头疼，自己一点
基础都没有，老师又照本宣科，只好上来请教各位兄弟姐妹，当年大家都是怎么熬过来
的？
或者能推荐点资料，note，视频一类的就更好了。
这门课的textbook是Business Law: Text and Cases - Legal, Ethical, Global, and
Corporate Environment
多谢大家了! |
|
c*******i
发帖数: 951 | 35 先patent agent再law school基本得有PHD
直接读law school再做patent, 建议先拿到MS（因为你背景是bio，BS不够用）
眼光可以放开点，读law school为什么一定要做patent呢
来。
PhD |
|
L**********m
发帖数: 63 | 36 大家好，我想请教各位，像我这样的情况，大家能不能帮我提点意见。
我下个月27岁，是science的master，现在在一家大药厂工作两年。
女生嘛，不能一辈子做science，bench work。
所以想着趁着还年轻能不能读点别的，以后有个好发展有希望的职业。
但是问题就是，我并不是很讨厌现在的工作，只不过觉得非phd，在R&D 比较没有前途。
当然轻轻松松上班也是我乐意的，何况现在药厂工作，不管哪个领域的都很难找。
所以，大家觉得我part time念law school怎么样？
我们city的，学校排名一般般，但我知道有中国人进去拿了奖学金，今年找到了工作。
我其实也不知道自己的最大兴趣在哪里，也不是很讨厌自己的专业，但是又觉得不能一
辈子干这个。
如果去了law school，part time的话，肯定会很累很苦，而且还可能有学费的压力，
关键也不知道能不能找到合适的工作，听说做patent law也很苦闷，到时候会不会觉得
还是以前做技术活好啊。。。。
欢迎前辈们指点。。。 |
|
L**********m
发帖数: 63 | 37 大家好，我想请教各位，像我这样的情况，大家能不能帮我提点意见。
我下个月27岁，是science的master，现在在一家大药厂工作两年。
女生嘛，不能一辈子做science，bench work。
所以想着趁着还年轻能不能读点别的，以后有个好发展有希望的职业。
但是问题就是，我并不是很讨厌现在的工作，只不过觉得非phd，在R&D 比较没有前途。
当然轻轻松松上班也是我乐意的，何况现在药厂工作，不管哪个领域的都很难找。
所以，大家觉得我part time念law school怎么样？
我们city的，学校排名一般般，但我知道有中国人进去拿了奖学金，今年找到了工作。
我其实也不知道自己的最大兴趣在哪里，也不是很讨厌自己的专业，但是又觉得不能一
辈子干这个。
如果去了law school，part time的话，肯定会很累很苦，而且还可能有学费的压力，
关键也不知道能不能找到合适的工作，听说做patent law也很苦闷，到时候会不会觉得
还是以前做技术活好啊。。。。
欢迎前辈们指点。。。 |
|
D******D
发帖数: 1022 | 38 like other people said LSAT is very important, take a few test see what
range you can get
And do some research about law , figure out what kinda law you might be
interested in practicing in the future? If it is IP law, i suggest you
finish your Ph.D |
|
D******D
发帖数: 1022 | 39 like other people said LSAT is very important, take a few test see what
range you can get
And do some research about law , figure out what kinda law you might be
interested in practicing in the future? If it is IP law, i suggest you
finish your Ph.D |
|
r***l
发帖数: 298 | 40 have you ever looked at the rejections issued by the Chinese Patent Office?
My conclusion is that their patent examiners are not properly trained at all
. They make a**hole US patent examiners look like regulars.
I can also forward a link later, describing the dark side of the CHinese
judiciary system, how the judges take kick-backs from both sides under the
table. Do you really think that the judges and Justices of the Chinese
system even care about justice?
I recall when PFE defended its infam... 阅读全帖 |
|
D******D
发帖数: 1022 | 41 I don't know why my post was deleted yesterday, anyway here is the link
again, hopefully it will be useful to help you decide which law school to go
to, since public interest is not really an option for most chinese students.
Remember especially for HYS lots of students prefer public interest and
clerkship (due to political ambition (Yale!!!) or some other reasons), they
are not interested in big law. But for most other schools it do give you a
pretty accurate probability.
http://www.law.com/jsp... 阅读全帖 |
|
d********e
发帖数: 2221 | 42 go back to China if i were you. you don't have to go to law school to
become a lawyer in china. much less risky.
in the US, you have to spend $200k for law school. you are not guaranteed a
job. even if you can find a job, the salary can be as low as 40-50k/year.
if your english is not very good, the chance you can get into a big law
firm that pays 160k/year is very slim. |
|
L*********h
发帖数: 2617 | 43
what are you now, and what law school are to you going to?
most law schools are regional, meaning it's hard to find a job outside your
school's region. law firms tend hire from local pool nowadays. |
|
M*******k
发帖数: 249 | 44 我是单身 不太知道家庭活动会占用多少学习时间 我去年一年基本都是呆在图书馆的
即便这样 最后的成绩也不是我满意的rank 但是我觉得家庭的支持作用很重要。law
school第一年压力都很大，如果你和孩子们能很支持，对你太太来说是很大的减压。我
认识的另一个男生 太太在第二学期生了小孩，忙的完全没时间学习，期末成绩仍然很
不错。所以每个人不一样吧。女生因为容易追求细节完美可能会自己给自己加压。我其
实蛮不建议你太太读的，除非她想彻底转law，否则JD对她找工作未必有phd的作用大。
反而要赔上很多时间和精力。IP虽然很热门，也不是一出来就找的到好工作，而且就
算找到，初期的工作压力不会比她现在的压力小。但是如果你很支持，你太太意志足够
坚定，那么可以试一下。law school虽然辛苦，但是学到的非常多。 |
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c**d
发帖数: 3888 | 45 以后如果要做IP law的话现在需要有什么必要的准备吗 Patent agent or attorney?
是不是需要多选一点CS的课? No point. It's your degree that matters
综合排名 还是所在学院的专业排名呢 Law school or your science degree school
? For law school, Overall ranking >> Specialty ranking |
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d********e
发帖数: 2221 | 46 there are very few openings for patent agents with bio background.
if you can get into any law firm, not matter it expects that you go to law
school or not, take the opportunity.
in general, large firms expect or do not mind that you go to law school.
small firms do mind. |
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D***e
发帖数: 435 | 47 写出来回馈本版的帮助。非典型经历，也很弱的背景。
本人是做bio/chem的，工作了几年，去年考了patent bar，开始考虑做patent agent
考完一个月后开始申请，主要集中在local 的IP law firm，从uspto的 registration
list上一个个搜过去，看每一个firm 的practice area，主要看有没有做chem/bio的。
大部分都是做ee的，确实如大家说的做chem/bio的少之又少，后来我为了凑数，什么都
申请了。我因为也没工作经验，就问有没有internship的机会
终于12月一个小firm问我要不要去面试了，算是在黑暗中给了我希望
面试就是聊天， firm的着装很随意，我还是按照一般去law firm的面试着装穿的。
主要是partner聊天，问题都是常见的， why change to IP law, why come to US
what's your 5 years plan?这个5 year plan，我老老实实说的自己就想做好一个
patent agent，先积攒经验。
还有一些问题我觉得也很有意思，比如一个part... 阅读全帖 |
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e*******8
发帖数: 41 | 48 我向一个law firm投了简历问是否有 patent tech. specialist position. 收到回信
叫我去聊聊。请问一般会问些什么？ 这是否意味有position opening? I am a
scientist eagerly looking for a career changing to patent law. 个人对patent
law 很感兴趣。 如果是个机会， 想抓住， 所以向过来大牛们请教。 多谢先。 |
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p***u
发帖数: 167 | 49 我有个表弟一直在国内做专利代理的工作。最近他想申请美国的law school出来念书。
他的本科是EE，目前没有计划读JD，希望找一个短期的program.他在网上查到西北大学
的一个program, Master of Science in Law
http://www.law.northwestern.edu/academics/degree-programs/msl/
他希望毕业之后可以在美国从事patent engineer类的工作，不知道他的这个计划是否
可行？以现在经济形势，毕业之后好找工作吗？另外西北大学的JD排名很靠前，不知道
他的MSL申请的难度大不大？
谢谢啦 ： ） |
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