l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 1 Posted by Jay Tea
Published: February 8, 2011 - 8:30 AM
The parallels between Massachusetts' health care "reform" program ("
RomneyCare") and the federal health care "reform" program ("ObamaCare") are
many. The problems RomneyCare are having are often good indicators of
problems that ObamaCare will have. And of late, they've both been getting a
lot of attention for those they've chosen to exclude from their requirements.
Under ObamaCare, it's organizations and businesses that have received the
w... 阅读全帖 |
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T**********e
发帖数: 29576 | 2
这个可能性不大，obamacare是在麻省的romneycare原理上建立的，romneycare开始还
行，几年后费用增长麻省都负担不起要联邦补助。
还好obamacare如果几年后费用爆炸，联邦可以印钱支付，全世界买单。 |
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P*********0
发帖数: 4321 | 3 我要是在台上，螺母泥早就四脚朝天了。
OBAMACARE是ROMNEYCARE的翻版。螺母泥说ROMNEYCARE是成功的典范，他就没有理由要
REPEAL OBAMACARE然后螺母泥又说，HEALTHCARE应该交给PRIVATE BUSINESS，但是他自
己要在麻州实施GOVERNMENT MANDATE HEALTHCARE。这个FLIP FLOP奥巴马没能穷追猛打
。 |
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s******t
发帖数: 926 | 4 这个取消ObamaCare换上RomneyCare就是个biased statement
Romney的意思是麻州行的通的医保照搬到美国全国就未必可行。当然，他不能直接这么
说，否则就是另外一个47%，会被媒体大肆渲染的。
举个简单的例子就是RomneyCare照搬到中国就行不通，所以照搬到美国是否可行就要打
个大大的问号了。当然，全民医保的idea是好的，时机是否成熟就另说了。 |
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f*********g
发帖数: 1637 | 5 Bottom line, I still dont see any valid argument that Obamacare is different
from Romneycare other than " State can but Fed can't".
To me this is all politics and actually Romneycare idea wasnt new either
which derives from Heritage Foundation years ago. Obamacare is far from
single payer program which most developed countries are on.
To argue details with GOP supporters here is fruitless because this is about
Politics, not about Healthcare. That is, whatever I do is correct, whatever
you
do is ... 阅读全帖 |
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s******t
发帖数: 926 | 6 RomneyCare is almost equivalent to ObamaCare, but it doesn't mean they have
to be both right or both wrong.
If we introduce WhoCare or WhenCare in China using the same RomneyCare or
ObamaCare, it would be a disaster, agree?
Romney's idea is to use President power to issue a waiver for each state.
That is, state has the right to determine if they want to follow ObamaCare.
I am not sure if that's lawful. |
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a*****i
发帖数: 4391 | 7 我自己更倾向于Romneycare打败了Obamacare.
我要是麻省的居民我也会对Obamacare有疑心。
毕竟Romneycare比现在的Senate bill更左倾。 |
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d******a
发帖数: 32122 | 8 ☆─────────────────────────────────────☆
mcardo (Myocardial Infarction) 于 (Thu Jun 28 20:41:00 2012, 美东) 提到:
1). 由于很多人需要自己掏钱购买保险,很多健康的年轻人估计宁愿罚款也不愿意从
Exchange买保险,Obamacare的目的是迫使健康的年轻人购买自己本该不需要的保险来补
贴年长的人来控制保险费的上涨(这只不过是一厢情愿)，但由于Obamacare要求保险公
司不允许歧视老弱病残的人,最后的结局是保险费会大幅上升,保险公司会更变本加厉的
压榨个体开业的医生,医生只有两种选择:要么停业,要么加入大医院,一方面根保险公司
有较大的余地,另外一方面也可以pool Medical liability Premium 最终的结局是从医
的人数减少,医院老弱病残的人数暴增,病人看病大排长龙.
2).也有不少高水平的个体开业的医生干脆拒绝一切保险,专门服务于有钱人(UK is
like this),事实上多家大医院开始拒绝接受Medicare/Medicaid,你现在看病的... 阅读全帖 |
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b********e
发帖数: 162 | 9 I respectfully disagree your points.
First, Paul is a libertarian but not a conservative. In my humble opinion,
both Libertarians and Neo-cons are closet liberals.
Second,conservatives want somebody to advance conservative causes.Gingrich
has done that and it on his record.Paul is just not that person, because
some of his policies are too extreme, such as allowing nuclear Iran. Most
likely, a President Paul will never get enough support from the right or the
left to pass good laws.
Simplicity is... 阅读全帖 |
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a**t
发帖数: 3833 | 10 Santorum Attacks Romney
By Russell Goldman | ABC News - 4 hrs ago
MANCHESTER, N.H. -Santorum jabbed Romney, portraying him as a coldly
calculating "C.E.O" and not the inspirational leader he said the country
needed. He further slammed Romney, accusing his health care plan of imposing
higher taxes on New Hampshire residents who work in Massachusetts to pay
for the legislation.
"I just don't think it's a skill set for what a president needs. We don't
need a manager," Santorum said at an event host... 阅读全帖 |
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P*********0
发帖数: 4321 | 11 The first private meeting between the 2 -
Romney: Fuck you, Ryan. Why do your want to reduce medicare into a voucher?
Ryan: Fuck you, Romney. Why did you sign on that Romneycare?
titled
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.3 |
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b*******n
发帖数: 8420 | 12 区别就是romneycare只应用于一个地域狭小人口稠密经济基础不错的州。
obama要把这个东西推广到全国，有点扯淡。 |
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i**y
发帖数: 1170 | 13 Just imagine an USCHINARUSSIAGERMAN CARE all over the world including Africa
. Same as Romneycare according to DEM supporters. |
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P*********0
发帖数: 4321 | 14 Are you day dreaming?
Romney didn't even credit himself for his Romneycare.
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.3 |
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P*********0
发帖数: 4321 | 15 I thought you got answer from Mitt already. Don't know know that he has
Romneycare and that's why you are supporting him?
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.3 |
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P*********0
发帖数: 4321 | 16 黄茶袋们还蹦跶不了？
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.3 |
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g********d
发帖数: 4174 | 17 不要怪OBAMA多有魅力，他能力魅力实在一般，要怪ROMNEY太挫了，这不，又要保留部
分OBAMACARE，从ROMNEYCARE，到彻底推翻OBAMACARE，到保留SOME OBAMACARE，拐了
几个弯了？他是COMMANDAR IN CHIEF的料吗？右派真可怜，把理念栓在一根挫稻草上
。 |
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w**d
发帖数: 956 | 18 请你再来说说为什么麻州的中产不应该依赖RomneyCare吧。
在线急等答复。 |
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w**d
发帖数: 956 | 19 再次肯请canary同学说说为什么麻州的中产不应该依赖RomneyCare吧。 |
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w**d
发帖数: 956 | 20 三顾茅庐再次肯请canary同学说说为什么麻州的中产不应该依赖RomneyCare吧。 |
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F****n
发帖数: 3271 | 21 根本就不该提RomneyCare,
那是在GOP Primary的时候红脖子的武器
到了大选的时候 Romney根本用不着讨好红脖子，
他甚至可以说那就是我的Idea, 怎么了 |
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P*********0
发帖数: 4321 | 22 当然要提啊。就是要找他自己打脸的镜头。
哈哈。还有螺母泥最近露丑说美国穷人目前已经享受免费医疗，因为有并他们可以随时
去ER; 而在他推行ROMNEYCARE的时候，整治穷人天文数字的ER费用恰恰是他要搞医改的
原因。
这些都暴出来，几下螺母泥脸就肿了。 |
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k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 23 Romney was stupid that he did not emphasize enough that the key is
to allow each state to determine whether they want something similar
to romneycare. If onc state wants it, they can vote and approve it in
their state level. There is absolutely no need to generalize it in
the federal level, especially through a format like Obamacare
Romney pointed it somewhat but not clearly enough. He needs to nail
this next time. |
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S******4
发帖数: 2865 | 24 No, WRONG again!
Obamacare saves 710 billion in Medicare from improved efficiency.
And Romney is promising to repeal Obamacare (which is really just Romneycare
), hence losing the 710 billion saving. |
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y****t
发帖数: 10233 | 25 what ？obamacare saves 710b from medicare？
so cuts means savings...
hmmmm..
Romneycare |
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S******4
发帖数: 2865 | 26 因为这个model是奥巴马提出的，共和党不想把这个千秋万代的好事让老黑办成。
As simple as that.
As disgusting as that.
其实Obamacare就是共和党在80，90年代提出的概念。Romneycare就是这个model。世界
上所有别的发达国家都是比这更aggressive的model。
你看这里一帮白痴跟你JJYY的好像在argue about facts，过几年共和党要是医改，基
本也肯定是同样的概念，到时候这帮人又会赶集似的舔GOP的股沟。 |
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k**l
发帖数: 2966 | 27 或者说你估计他会执行的政策。
Obama的政策估计和Romney claim的差不太多，more or less the same。他的政策能不
能让经济复苏是智者见智
Romney比较飘忽，我follow了他的convention speech和辩论。感觉基本都在忽悠人（
什么take on china, trade with Latin America的），当然现在竞选必须依靠忽悠，
Obama也是忽悠上台的。所以这个也不能太怪他。
我想到的可能有以下几点
1. 大量开采美国油田，可能能短期内稍微压低汽油价格。
2. 增加军费，可能打伊朗。
3. 给富人实际减税，中产不增税。
4. 削减社会福利？---这个估计很难做到，给到穷人手里的好处是拿不走的。除非他就
没打算过连任。
5. 取消Obamacare, 换上Romneycare？基本没变。 |
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f*********g
发帖数: 1637 | 28 同性恋课堂 State issue.
医疗保险增值 Who did? Did Obama order it? Obamacare even hasnt started yet,
It is his opponents, Insurance monopolies that raise the insurance premium.
It is not fair to blame Obama for this issue.
Obama has a lot of problem like war issue, like bend to Israel etc.
Obamacare isnt one of those issues,Obamacare isnt different from Romneycare
in the essence. |
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m****e
发帖数: 315 | 29 Pennsylvania Independent voter. 明天会到district投票。 基本已决定投Obama.
但实际支持得非常勉强，认为如果Romney赢了也不会糟多少。
支持Obama理由：
1，非常反感共和党的堕胎和同性恋政策。基本人权问题，不容妥协。 尽管Romney本人
似乎在这点上不极端，但他的Flip Flop让人不能信任。
2，认为对美籍华人来说，民主党崇尚的diversity利远大于弊。 共和党骨子里白人至
上。
3，收入上和大多中国人一样，即使不是1%也至少是5%。 但身为工薪阶级，觉得自己离
巨富比离赤贫远。 支持有safety net. 认为资本家巨富只要没人管，会不加思索地加
紧剥削，中产工资会更被压低，本来可以挣20万只给15万，远比民主党的多交几千的税
更惨。 中产没钱，巨富即使想投资也只能制造泡沫。虽然不认为民主党上台有本事控
制真正的巨款，但有心无力和根本就不想还是有区别的。
4，原则上支持共和党的预算平衡和挣多少话多少的理论。 认为不应该超前消费，不能
怂恿不劳而获。 只是不觉得共和党的计划靠谱，而且共和党要把钱花在最反感的军费
... 阅读全帖 |
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v**d
发帖数: 574 | 30 1.彻底废除,恢复原状
2.换成Romneycare,有什么具体区别?
3. 维持obamacare? |
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m*******p
发帖数: 1978 | 31 里根拿下了加州，scott brown选上了麻州的参议员。还需要什么证据？
Romney反对自己在麻州所作的一切，包括Romneycare.
Ryan就是个小选区极端的瘪三。
他们拿不下自己的州太说明问题了。 |
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b**********s
发帖数: 9531 | 33 romneycare/obamacare is a social benefit, and holleywood is a business with
limited market. they have no comparison. |
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 34 Massachusetts Democrats To Force Governor To Seek Waiver From Obamacare
Provisions
Josh Archambault Josh Archambault, Contributor
An awkward future conversation between Governor Patrick and President Obama
about the ACA in MA?
A very interesting ACA development is taking place in Massachusetts today as
the state that “inspired” Obamacare tries to reconcile its current law
with the new federal law. Push back in the compliance effort is coming from
an unexpected source, the senior Democratic budge... 阅读全帖 |
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a*********a
发帖数: 3656 | 35 非常赞同。联邦管最低保。各州根据自己的情况附加。
所以说O8马care需要砍到一个最低标准（那不就是medicaid?) 各州自己搞符合州情的
有本州特色的医疗，福利。麻州有RomneyCare，NJ可以搞个ChristieCare。加州继续搞
非移care。 |
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k***n
发帖数: 3158 | 36 of course they are different on this issue because it is called obamacare
not romneycare. that's about the only difference.
if GOP is INDEED different from DEM, they would not have handed out
medicare part D when nobody asked for it.
DEM |
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 37 这个,左逼们来解释一下?
Health Reform Will Not Cut Emergency Room Visits, President Obama Hardest
Hit
One of President Obama's constant refrains during the battle over health
reform has been that expanding coverage would reduce inefficiency in the
system. In particular, he often cited expensive expensive emergency room
visits as something that reform could help reduce. But it turns out,
Obamacare, like Romneycare before it, is likely to increase emergency visits
, maybe substantially.
MIT News reports on a... 阅读全帖 |
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l****z
发帖数: 29846 | 38 Obamacare: State Dems’ Worst Nightmare
Troubles with liberal states’ exchanges are dragging down their Democratic
governors.
By Michael Tanner
As the bad news about Obamacare’s federal operations keeps on coming, it’s
worth keeping in mind that the law is a mess at the state level as well.
The big question will be whether the failures will hurt Democratic state
politicians as much as Obamacare appears likely to drag down national
Democrats. Most of the 17 states that chose to set up and operate ... 阅读全帖 |
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h****g
发帖数: 2216 | 39 MA的人民是最精明得。自己搞RomneyCare之后，发现全国也要这么搞，相当于全国要来
吃MA。这个深蓝州立刻选了个共和党的参议员出来捣乱。要不是PA的共和党参议员叛变
，ObamaCare还真就给MA人民挡住了。 |
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c*******o
发帖数: 8869 | 40 这个很奇怪，当年的o8care人家就大大方方说照抄RomneyCare，螺母泥还不敢认。 |
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l*h
发帖数: 4124 | 41 麻省RomneyCare，还不是single payer，已经可以让大家看一下结果了。麻省看病的平
均等待时间是全国平均的3倍左右，很多专科的平均等待时间是80天左右。 |
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l**4
发帖数: 2989 | 42 其实总统大选就是个游戏而已，谁上台政策都差不多
竞选时候他们先琢磨怎么说能赢，赢了之后就说一套做一套了
如果老罗真上台了，为了连任说不定也搞个romneycare |
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l*******o
发帖数: 8 | 43 http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_aecb12b601012av7.html
就政府的长期表现而言，出于悲天悯人造成的偶然过失要强于铁石心肠导致的消极无为。
—— 富兰克林·罗斯福
宦海风波，实难久恋。
—— 《儒林外史》
稍稍关注一下在不同经济形势下的各种议论，就会发现美国民众对于政府作用的
矛盾态度。在经济增长强劲有力的繁荣时期，大家总是将其归功于企业家精神、科技进
步或者国际环境等行政力量之外的因素；在经济增长乏力甚至陷于衰退之际，人们又会
不约而同地归因于政府的消极无为或措施不当，各种批评、指责甚至痛斥声不绝于耳。
的确，在美国担任公职特别是在行政分支担任重要领导职务，不仅要廉洁守法、无私奉
献，确实还要有“好脾气”和“好肚量”。
民众对于政府功用的“警惕”和“谨慎”态度，又在民主、共和两党的相互揭短
和贬损中得以强化。而实际上，虽然对于政府行政分支功能和作用的不同回答最终是区
分共和党和民主党的试金石，但两党关于政府经济政策的选择... 阅读全帖 |
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u***s
发帖数: 88 | 44 我还是想多说几句
对于家里有老人的，申请mass health limited，这种医保有局限性，但比没有好多了
平时的头痛脑热就找给穷人看病的地方。我们这就是family health center of
worcester
对于家里有大病的, mass health limited 可能不管用，打电话给free and low cost
legal services
provided by gov，他们应该很熟悉RomneyCare,了解其中的弹性，什么样的情况可以试
一下
大多数的人都乐于助人 特别是老年人和生大病的人
谁不生病不变老呢？
祝福所有的父母安康幸福 |
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b*******r
发帖数: 6655 | 45 Beginning with Romneycare's enactment in 2006, Massachusetts' annual
government spending on health care has increased 67 percent, or $4.2
billion annually, much of it off-budget or paid for by the federal
government. The cumulative five-year increase has been about $15 billion,
or half of the state's annual budget.
The money has not gone for nothing: The tradeoff is a 6 percent increase
in coverage -- 407,000 newly insured. But only 32 percent of them pay the
full cost of their insurance. Fifty- |
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t****g
发帖数: 35582 | 46 为啥obamacare这么烂，Romneycare大家都很开心呢。 |
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t****g
发帖数: 35582 | 47 全民医保的argument是如果全民了，大家就不会去蹭ER了，最终把cost降下来。
不全民医保的话，除非你敢裸奔，否则你一分不少交。
一个简单的数据，MA的医保率现在是98.7%，TX是75%。后者很多年轻人也不买，觉得自
己身体没问题。但是只要你不做那裸奔的1/4，你的cost一样下不来。
当然，全国医保和MA医保也就是Obamacare和Romneycare还有个区别是，前者容易造成
carrier垄断，其实GOP主要argue的就是这个东西，另一个就是强制买private保险算不
算违宪。
总的来说，我不支持搞universal healthcare，但是我支持向有能力afford医保但是又
不买的人征收特别税或者罚税。因为这个明显就是
出了事赖别人。然后拿这笔钱去补贴买了医保的人。 |
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t****g
发帖数: 35582 | 48 你少交点税足够给房子买个好点的保险了。
还有那个关于Obama Care的问题，图景是美好的。但是Romney说的没错，RomneyCare在
麻州一个州能行的通，但是copy到全国，等着看保费坐火箭吧，或者政府靠收税来买单。 |
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t****g
发帖数: 35582 | 49 这个，RomneyCare在麻州能work，但是copy到全国，真的work不了。
原因很简单，同样的制度，扩展到全国，没有市场竞争了，就等着保费坐火箭吧。 |
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r***l
发帖数: 298 | 50 My professor said Stevens was the most intelligent justice. He told us
anecdptes of how fast Stevens picked up computer technology in Benson. Since
he clerked for two justices in his 20s, perhaps he is uniquely qualified.
However, I don't like Stevens in Bilski, right before his retirement.
White dissented in Roe?
Yes, Lawrence got arrested in TX for alleged gay activities in his bedroom.
The language went too far, covering ONS, MNS, "consensual" prostitution,
etc. It probably opened the door... 阅读全帖 |
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