f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 1 2nd hand at this table.
BigFatMatt 3.5x pre-flop (he can total air a lot), 4 way flop.
he 1/2 pot, i call, PrapleDragon calls, Priest Atran 4x pot.
BigFatMatt re-shoves, i call, PrapleDragon re-shoves, Priest Atran calls.
what the hell, lol, lucky! |
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n******1
发帖数: 4742 | 2 TT cutoff utg3bb （short stacker15bb） 我3bet到15bb button allin40bb ..
我shove？还是fold
55 sb button 3bb short stacker 20bb 我是shove 还是call 还是fold
我call了，flop T77 我ck button ck turn3 我bet pot button call river k 我应该
怎么办
KJ button open 3bb sb call flop KQ8r sb ck call turn 9 sb ck 我应该继续bet
还是ck pot control？ |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 3 Very good read. He has got nut flush. I have to call either way. His turn
call make me feel that he doesn't have any of the higher full house. I don't
understand his river shove. a call or a fold will be much less donkish. No
good player will raise here without beating the flush.
if he shoves over turn, it will be very hard for me to call that.
full |
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t*********d
发帖数: 3398 | 4 其实我说的比较保守， 玩起来也不是那么保守
今天早上
Villain: 80bb @ UTG
Me: 160bb @big blinds with 45o
Villain limped in at UTG, all folded to me.
Flop 45J rainbow, I checked, villain bet 2bb and I mini raised to 4bb,
villain re-raised to 8bb, I called. Turn 5, I bet 15bb and villain raised to
32bb, I thought for a while and shoved with 100+bb. villain called. River
blank.
Villain showed QQ.
一条不折不扣的鱼啊。
turn的时候只有JJ是唯一能大过我的牌， 但是很少见人用JJ在UTG limp in, 所以我判
断他是QQ+， 只有两个outs, 所以在turn shove了。
我现在的原则是， 如果判定我在flop 或者turn是nuts, 我会 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 5 bet flop check nuts turn and shove all in river IN POSITION?
Got burned many times yesterday. any time when i want to make a move then they shove me all in.... |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 6 There will not be two pot size bets if I only have a marginal hand. I have
at least AJ. If i was bluffing. 9$ raise is even better. I have no way to
call that. All in bluff is just a desperate move from his part. I have been
shoved over more than often when I raise river after 2 pot size bets from
them. (I do a lot of crazy stuff to find out what works on each level. :D i do not reraise anything more than necessary and they either shove me over or fold.) but much more successful when they bet |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 well, against BB only and has position, he does nothing wrong, although pre
shove or semi-shove might work better for him.
now i suck out on him and have a note, difficult for him to get a revenge,
lol. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 8 he used his stack size well. If he reshove preflop, he played his hand
obvious with AA AK or KK. Now he is just waiting for your c-bet to have you
commited then shove on flop. Of course you shoved ahead, so saved all his
work. ^_^ I am always very wary of short stack when all of sudden they
stopped their aggression. Most of time they are waiting for you to commit
yourself which is only one bet away most of the time.
pre |
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n******1
发帖数: 4742 | 9 。。。 我估计会call 然后shove turn ..
他直接shove也还行。。呵呵，要不我输钱呢。。 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 fold or shove for me really at this spot. Normally i would have folded,
because i felt bb have something good and would come along. Then i feel i
would be even in better shape if he comes along without a flush draw.. so i shoved.... |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 11 oh, i see. 6 you are short stack. he called you preflop so he shoved a
little over pot size afterflop? he didn't think he could fold this after
flop so he shoved.. marginal but still pretty standard. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 12 interesting, might be true. |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 13 If that is true, then 1) player put the possiblity that the opp. is bluffing
is higher than the poss. that self is bluffing at river.
Or 2) over-optimistic on own hand.
2) is always true. Not sure on 1). Let's say 1) is just even. Then, since 2)
is always true, THAT IS HIGHLY POSSIBILY TRUE. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 QQ is preflop someone raise 4X then another guy raise 12X. I folded without
even calling. It is clearly shove or fold to me because the guy EP is very
strong as well and he will shove most likely.
I put them the raiser on KK+, EP is unknown but strong. There is no point to
be a hero here. I am either agaisnt AK which is coin flip or i am drawing
dead.. it is an easy lay down for me to catch a better spot. Tight? yes, but
with a read.
KK hand might be marginal how I played preflop. But I have a r |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 KK is an auto shove for me most of the time. but i can't blame anyone who
wants to fold at this spot even though i think his 3 bet range include AK and QQ as well.... i would look at his 3 bet % quickly, if it is
any thing greater than 3% or even close to 3%, i would shove without hesitation. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 16 the key is to shove all in river with 2/3 of real hand and 1/3 of bluffs. if
every shove is bluff but value bet with real hand, not only it is -EV long
run, but also it is too easy to read... 说到底还是balancing your range. it will make it a lot harder for calling bluff to be profitable. |
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G*R
发帖数: 544 | 17 大哥，你要看概率啊？三分之一的概率中flush，你一个已经made的set，三分之二概率
赢，这都不
shove，你什么时候shove?
pair |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 18 48/23 is pretty loose, but his aggression (1.4) is low.
i like flop bet re-shove better against him, here on the turn, you still
should shove.
flop 223 is dry, he raises from UTG, A2s is not likely.
turn offsuit T improves few hands, and most likely a blank.
you can beat quite some hands he could have, 44-99, ATs, semi/pure bluffs. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 19 actually another reason i like over cards are their drawing potentials.
hands like 55-99 are made hands for sure, but rarely ahead much if shoving
or calling a shove (assuming stacks are not too short).
for example, 88 vs. TQs, yeah, you're leading in the race preflop, but only
by a small margin. if TQs hit flop (1/3 chance), then you'll be almost
drawing dead. if they miss, still, they got 6 outs to a pair (24%, not
really that bad), and more interestingly, to str8 or flush with the help
from f |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 20 为设么要4 bet with JJ or QQ or AK? is it for bluff or for value?
If for value what hand are you getting value from?
If for bluff what hand are you going to get them off with?
Are you going to fold to 5 bet shove if you have JJ QQ AK? If so why are you 4 betting with them? If not, what do you think is their 5 bet shove range?
I think we should consider these questions before we 4 bet with hand that is not KK AA. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 21 shove over 1 raiser and a few caller is ok with this range. shove over a 3
bet, the range needs to be much tighter (QQ+) if you want to be a profitable
short stacker. But who are we kidding. Most of them are loser anyway, so profitability is not their top priority obviously
this |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 22 certainly called. QhJh. The fact that he has QJ instead of KQ make it even
thinner value.
I leveled myself into a call. en... bad call probably. one of the most
costly river call by far.
Summary of the hand:
Good read: he does not have 1010+, he was on a draw.
Bad read: he won't shove deep with just a Q
Bottom line: got taken to value down with a pair on river.
made two huge call on river shove yesterday. Both by thin value. No wonder I
can only break even on NL100 so far because I called al |
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n******1
发帖数: 4742 | 23 我觉得你打的挺好的 除了river。
我可能会bet flop， bet turn fold to turn shove 如果对方turn 没shove c/f
river
position with a medium strength hand on a draw heavy board and the stack is
relatively deep. 大家讨论讨论这post flop怎样打好?
is optimal. Not a hand I should be squeezing out extra value... bad move on
my part |
|
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 25 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 怎么办？ i guess this is a typical situation where both of us underestimate the other
's hand strength.
if he 3.5x preflop, this hand may be a total different story and he'll get
my stack for sure.
his river raise apparently puts me on a callable hand but not monster.
we both "guess" the other would not call a shove with a hand not having the
other beat, so re-shoving here is questionable.
great for you
to |
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s*y
发帖数: 124 | 26 QQ/AK are the hands I do not recommend shove in 100bb+ cash games,
unless your opponent is clearly a fish.
I do mostly 3-bet with QQ and sometimes with AK to squeeze, fold to a 4-
bet.If somebody already 3-bet before me, I would flat call and play with
my position or fold AK if my opponent is tight. If I was out of position
and someone 3-bet me, I will fold AK unless my opponent is passive.
Looking at my records, I lose money when I shove with QQ and AK.
Just my two cents, I myself do not even k |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 27 AA early position 3x纯粹给自己找麻烦，4个人跟。
flop吧发现自己stack小了，又over shove，俺跟，倒是这个66有点可怜，再shove俺也
committed了。
一看两人都没草花，俺踏实了。 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 28 主要不想用QQ 来set farming.. 我一flat, EP 跟进来, 我没位置被他俩夹在中间,太难受了...
这miniraise 再shove,很难读, 可能是AA, AK, 也可能donk shove 烂牌... 这4 bet fold
是真亏..他vpip 20 17 也很松了虽然才没几手牌.
不过这牌可能真是weak tight 一点flat pre 的好.. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 29 除非他是你二舅，太了解你了，否则donk shove的可能极小，你这个size虽然俺觉得稍
小了点，但是weak is strong，反过来看颇有点真货的味道，所以他还敢shove，连AK
俺看都玄。
非常象KK，瞎猜。
太难受了...
fold |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 30 sigh, very tough...
when UTG donk shoves, my finger is ready to click "call", he's a fish for
sure. but when button donk re-shoves too to isolate me...
i do put UTG on a good pair, he's too nervous to see this wet flop, typical
inconsistency leak without a plan (preflop and flop).
i do put BTN on flush draw too (too heavy for str8 draw), she (a regular)
wants to push me out so badly. TPTK likely but not for this suicide size if
i do have a big hand too. set? no chance. flopped str8, same as set, |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 31 i guess BTN shoves for a reason, she puts me on a hand that MIGHT call UTG's
donk shove for $20 (therefore become committed for hands like TP + open ended).
a limped pot and my 2/3 lead bet give her such info.
a str8 draw only is not likely on this two hearts flop. she's a regular, i
guess she knows for big action like this, she needs some sorts of hands that
can draw to the nuts although she's behind for now.
i don't really like these little top 2 pairs on a draw heavy flop and 3-way
action. mo |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 32 easy call.
from his preflop, flop, and turn action, a Qx hand is so unlikely, but
apparently he doesn't put you on Qx either but a draw or weak pair, in live,
his hands could be any PP between 77-JJ, even suited AK, AJ alike.
short stackers simply don't shove on QQ66 turn with Qx, what's the point? if
you're drawing to a flush and a donk, you may still know you are very
likely drawing dead. his shove is not for value, but out of fear. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 33 goes: shake hand ... ^_^.
there are so much shoving values here.. 2s 6s. AK maybe even KQ. i only lose to KK.. trivial shove.. Nothing else in his range
If
lovely
If |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 34 there is no turn raise.. it is a 3$ bet into a 8.5$ pot... seems like a weak
2 barrel..
I actually like how he played AK top pair until the river call shove.. he
actually kept my weaker hand in. It is consistent with my view of not to
over play AK TPTK. the miniraise river is good too because he disguised his hand strength and i could call even with pocket Js, but the call shove is a huge huge huge leak.. it should be a trivial fold.
Normally it is weaker hand weaker bet.. with one over card, i |
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s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 35 wow, that is tough fold. The guys could have AA, but also AK and QQ/KK
Especially consider 35BB in already. If you shove and he indeed has AA, you still have 20% og IT(around 40$). If you assign possiblity of Ak/QQ/KK in, it is a shove for any means. But it could a GOOD fold. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 36 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 不要忽悠哥 no, honestly i would not. my river bet and over re-shove is very strong, a
bottom flush is very marginal here for that size to call.
he apparently makes the same mistake as in last year's WSOP main event, the
hand darvin moon won big with a higher flush.
he basically blinds himself after hitting the flush, and thinks only he
knows what's going on. if he takes a few seconds here, would i or anyone re-
shove this big with a straight or set or 2 pair hand here? |
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y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 37 NO, I go deep, but not so lucky about some spots.
For example, I have aqs on the btn, BB has KK.
Btn shoves 13BB, I happens to have 55 in the blinds.
Lost 2 many flips, can not win the game. (I lost at least 6 all ins in that
game, the result can not be to very good.)
Watch the game all the way, dean wins 5 flips, and lose 1 flips.(all these
flips, he doubles up.)
his 88 beats another guy's 77 allin. ETC
Ak wins another guy's KQ.
AA wins btn's 88 shove. (all these are huge pots.)
I guess that i |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 38 nothing about read. With AA you don't need read. just flat 4 bet and get it
in after flop. Fish knows it too..
However with that weak 3 bet preflop, i can't fold either. I had to fire a 4 bet. If he shoves preflop, i am in a bad situation obviously.
shove |
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g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 39 Not really, if he thinks you have premium hand here, he should shove pre for
sure to get all you chips in before any scare cards show on the flop. If
you have marginal hand, deep stack and donky-ish, slow play...
The only disadvantage he has is the out of position, so given your stake size, no position, you 4 bet, I would rather 5 bet shove not slow playing here,
it |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 40 flop shove is better, but i guess he has a read on you. so that extra $35
may or may not work. but still, you commit yourself, with open ended and K,
with fold equity... better than $35 left and can do nothing any more.
i put myself in such situations too with nut/2nd nut flush draws, don't be
brave enough to shove flop and face a blank turn puzzle when opponents fire
big. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 41 Read on me? probably not. easy shove preflop if he does. Just a fish that
does not dare to shove AK preflop but can't lay down a gut shot after flop. |
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p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 42 sats game, 4 players paid, 10 players left in two tables.
button(m=5) is very loose aggressive, shoving fairly often recently.
SB/BB are somewhat tight.
dealt AJo at utg, M=6, rank 5th among 10 players.
raise or shove?
90man sng, mid stage.
dealt QTo at SB (m=10), two limpers (from utg & CO), flop J-9-3 rainbow.
BB UTG CO all have similar M, about 8-12.
how much should I bet?
further, BB UTG fold and CO move all in (get me covered). is it a clear fold?
sng final table, 5 players left.
dealt 5c-... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 43 why do you check turn? Flop raise bigger. bet turn when check to. You
should have less than pot size bet left shove on river and get it in
regardless. You did not lose your whole stack here, meaning you did not
play it right.
preflop pot 0.75$
flop he bets 0.3$ you should raise to 1.2$ (pot 3$)
turn he check you bet 2$ (pot is 7$)
you will have around 4$ for a perfect sized shove on river.
On any street if he reraise you, you get it in right there. |
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f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 44 you two are not cautious, both are trying to slow play.
both hands explain one thing, at least at these stakes, ppl tend to
slow play monsters while act strong with medium hands. we need to reverse it
sometimes.
btw, the poker blueprint is a good book (although based on 6-max), the first
half is basic stuff, you can go ahead and read the 2nd half (covering this
paired situations), very helpful.
slow play is not a bad thing, but it has problems too:
1) miss value against medium hands;
2) more sca... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 45 smallish blocking bet is a very exploitable play. It really only work on
fish or weak tight player who are clueless. Because you are simply telling
your opponents that you do not have a very strong hand, but would like see a
showdown. If you have a strong hand, you will never play like this because
the value lost over long term is much bigger. Any time when you tell your
opponents what you have in a game of incomplete information, you lose. Now
all we need to do is shove over his blocking be... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 46 i don't think he read him wrong at all. therefore the all in shove... he
would not shove all in 3X to bluff if he does not know that sami have
something like 2 pair. something like 2/3 pot would be sufficient. all in
is probably the only size that can get him off that hand. risky? yes..
great move? I think so. He knows exactly what he has i believe or at least
very close. |
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p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 47 no,我说的是c/c river,不是说flop和turn
call
bluffing or just turned his set to full house. Lead shoving is terrible. In
fact, J9 need to shove that turn facing strong action. You will get so many
calls by set, small straig |
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T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 48 Rush NL50 and NL100 are comparable. Ppl are generally playing soft. I am
pushing around a lot of pots and c-bet a lot and has high rate of sucess.
Not in NL200. Man, non of my trick works. The pot I can usually take down
using c-bet or second barrel, I get check-raised or call and then shove.
Even some short stack playing aggressive like crazy. A guy with $76 dollars
stack, turn bet pot size for 46 dollars, I have nut flush draw and made a
donkey move and shove all-in, he fold with remaing $15 f... 阅读全帖 |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 49 I do not know really. Raise fold seems bad vs fish. if you are raising
calling I like shove better. I think it is ok to reraise to 19 and fold to
a reshove vs competent player. There are just too many full house combo
have you beat. I would even consider 66 a bluff catcher or retardness
catcher on a shove. |
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 50 Look at how people are discussing playing second nut flush on river.. Now
think about this hand. It should be very helpful. since you are like the
101th nuts.
http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/96/small-stakes-full-ring/sizing-second-nuts-894835/
Both players clearly have a flush. now the problem is whether you should
raise on the donk bet river with second nuts. raise/fold or call or raise/
call or shove.
the villian in this hand is a regular poster on 2+2, very good player in
general. I think... 阅读全帖 |
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