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全部话题 - 话题: wastelands
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l*y
发帖数: 21010
1
好像很多人对现代诗不感冒。有点瞧不起的意思。
但本人很喜欢。本人喜欢的诗人有:臧棣,姜涛,俞心焦等
本人喜欢的外国诗人有:Ezra Pound, C. P. Cavafy
本人在北大旁听过姜涛的现代诗歌课,受益匪浅。
下面帖一首俞心焦(清华边缘诗人)的代表作,我很喜欢:
《墓志铭》
在我的祖国
只有你还没有读过我的诗
只有你未曾爱过我
当你知道我葬身何处
请选择最美丽的春天
走最光明的道路
来向我认错
这一天要下的雨
请改日再下
这一天还未开放的紫云英
请它们提前开放
在我阳光万丈的祖国
月亮千里的祖国
灯火家家户户的祖国
只有你还没读过我的诗
只有你未曾爱过我
你是我光明祖国唯一的阴影
你要向蓝天认错
向白云认错
向青山绿水认错
最后向我认错
最后说 要是心焦还活着
该有多好。
下面是希腊诗人卡瓦菲斯的一首著名的《城市》。我喜欢这首诗里对异乡的一种复杂思
维。
The City
You said, "I will go to another land, I will go to another sea.
Another city will be found, better than ... 阅读全帖
I*D
发帖数: 40035
2

Bill . When Clinton recently visited Hong Kong , a milk shop worried
delivered a speech in the presence of all
People ( including the author , Han , Fu Ping, USTC , and Yuan Longping )
are scared into a cold sweat . Full Text excerpt follows:
First, do not eat more than one thing . Although many Chinese crisis , such
as the political crisis , economic crisis,
Crisis of faith , territorial crisis, social crisis, etc. , but as long as
the military stability , people still have food to eat , no cr... 阅读全帖
M*********m
发帖数: 2024
3
来自主题: WebRadio版 - Robert Frost和王维 by Microsystem
本来都是附庸风雅的英文,“Love's labour's lost”,“Pearl of the wasteland”
,呵呵,看着太酸,就改了一下。:)在literature太忙了,走不开。。。。
d*****d
发帖数: 10658
4
来自主题: WebRadio版 - 纽约大学中国电影展映 (转载)
【 以下文字转载自 Movie 讨论区 】
发信人: desmond (葱油饼), 信区: Movie
标 题: 纽约大学中国电影展映
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sat Apr 5 15:37:33 2014, 美东)
纽约的童鞋真有福,xmjdh!
Reel China@NYU 7th Film Biennial
Friday, April 11 - Sunday, April 13
Reel China 2014 once again samples outstanding contemporary Chinese
independent documentaries, while also showcasing a few innovative
narrative and experimental films, using different kinds of media or
technology, by emerging filmmakers in China, Hong Kong, and the diaspora.
Several are award-winnin... 阅读全帖
a*****i
发帖数: 4391
5
来自主题: EnglishChat版 - Re: anybody likes T.S.Eliot's Wasteland?

http://www.bartleby.com/201/
o/~ April is the crulest month.. o/~
a*****i
发帖数: 4391
6
来自主题: EnglishChat版 - Re: anybody likes T.S.Eliot's Wasteland?

I had headache reading it. :) "Odysseus" and all those old greek epics and
plays were much easier to read -_-;;
But still.. ti si better than novels... Novels are messes.. They should not
be included in "pure literature"
a*****i
发帖数: 4391
7
来自主题: EnglishChat版 - Re: anybody likes T.S.Eliot's Wasteland?

me? sci-fiction for fictions. Books written by Asimov... and david wingrove.
I am reading david wingrove's "chung kuo" right now.. What a great,
magnificent epic story...
For none-fictions.. any thing that relates to history, philosophy...
if it is asia related, I would be even more interested. I just finished a
book called "japan experience" finaly started to know a little about
japan's history ^_^
a*****i
发帖数: 4391
8
来自主题: EnglishChat版 - Re: anybody likes T.S.Eliot's Wasteland?

haha that is why internet is a bad thing for proper socializing.
You spend too much time in front of computer, you lose your
ability to speak as well as socialize. :)
A good thing I lose my inet connection at home for the rest of the
week, I can finaly sit down and finish reading somethign and start learning
GRE vocabularies... and stop flirting with girls on irc.. -_-;
m*********x
发帖数: 400
9
来自主题: Love版 - 泡洋mm宝典~
Emily Dickinson的诗我看得很少——她好像是到modernism过渡段的诗人,对我来说和
现代主义的诗歌特点一样,比较intellectual,看着有些费解。上次看Eliot的
wasteland,我把图书馆能翻到的参考书都翻了,吭哧吭哧看了一个小时,也就才读一
页,很崩溃~
A***a
发帖数: 144
10
"打电话支支吾吾想要表白"
Never ever, ever ever coming out over the phone, save it for breakup. Next
time do it face to face, picture this in your mind:" It was 1,000,000 years,
she and you were the only living thing on this forsaking wasteland, you
just killed a sabertooth who was chasing her, it was cold and dark outside,
you have the cave and food." Now, grab her closer, hold her tight, look
straight into her eyes, and concentrate all the following: I want you, I
have you, I own you, I can protect you an
z***t
发帖数: 110
11
来自主题: Whisper版 - 灾难过后
我难得从头到尾看完了。很震撼,又无语
The Last Farmer in Fukushima's Post-Nuclear Wasteland: VICE INTL (Japan)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gs-q-2893uw
M*********m
发帖数: 2024
12
来自主题: Literature版 - 请推荐英文长诗~
It is hard to read a long English poem to the end...while it is much easier
to read shorter ones. You could find John Milton's "Paradise lost", Byron's
"Don Juan" or T.S. Eliot's "Wasteland"... Those are the famous ones and if
you feel the obligation to read them, read them. Personally I like the one
by PB Shelley called "Adonais", it is about another poet John Keats' death.
Shelley mixed the death of Keats and Adonais, a figure in Greek myth (Adonis
), the texture of the poem is very rich, some
v*******e
发帖数: 3714
13
来自主题: Poetry版 - 诗版:从开始到结束
here is one piece:
http://www.clicknotes.com/hamlet/Eliot/e96.html
also u can check:
http://www.english.uga.edu/~232/eliot.taken.html
allusion in from :
As though a window gave upon the sylvan scene
The change of Philomel, by the barbarous king
So rudely forced;
l***y
发帖数: 791
14
来自主题: Poetry版 - a return journey, in autumn
Twilight rain
falls on the train tracks again.
Gravels and dirt banks lie
Fuzzy and grey in the back,
Out of them metallic tin roof tops,
Here and there, shout unbreakably white.
And the lamp bulbs, haloed on their orange head,
light each stations, while we pass
on.
Lined among this relic strip
of industrial wasteland,
the trees and grasses of Autumn
have so much dappled, fresh color.
Saturated in water,
blooming in the gloom.
At this time, the mind
is free to go anywhere,
think anything,
or not
c**m
发帖数: 1632
15
来自主题: Poetry版 - 哈代
Maybe it's sussex or devonshire wastelands~~ hehe. Hardy used to have a poem
about his passed way wife, not sure if you have it handy.
w*a
发帖数: 2138
16
来自主题: Poetry版 - 小镇咖啡 之二
是。记得Apollo说可以满足她的一个愿望,她许愿永生不死,但忘了许愿永葆青春。结
果她永远不死,但老得像个皱缩的桃核儿,整天呆在一个瓶子里。小孩逗她玩,问她想
要什么。她说:I want to die. Wasteland的篇首题辞用了这个典故。我上次拼错了,
应该是sibyl,呵呵。
s********k
发帖数: 212
17
来自主题: Reader版 - Classic American Authors E-H
Classic American Authors E-H
T.S. Eliot
"What the Thunder Said" is a nicely designed
resource site on the poet of The Wasteland.
T.S. Eliot
The T.S. Eliot page at the Nobel Foundation,
including his acceptance speech for the 1948
Nobel Prize for Literature.
Ralph Waldo Emerson
A superb guide to resources on the figure at
the heart of the Transcendentalist movement in
American literature, including extexts, bios,
images and other resourc
l***y
发帖数: 791
18
来自主题: Reader版 - a rumor on harry potter
I'm working on 'the wasteland' by T.S.Eliot. but it's said that was the poem
of the last century.
only read a few, can't recommand :) of those i've read, i like classical ones
better, like Don Juan ---just because Byron's nasty wit; Homer's sagas, too.
*heph heph*
Read a few lines from Marie Howe, ask Echo about it bah? pretty feminine.

i
summer
on
l***y
发帖数: 791
19
来自主题: Reader版 - T.S. Eliot Re: a rumor on harry potter
Eliot had a nerve breakdown and went to europe for treatment before
he wrote 'the wasteland'. I had an interesting talk with a peer/part-time
cartoonist about him the other day. This Eliot was very serious about
literature and poetry and the ways of the old. he impressed me as someone
with genius AND with a pose.
'the first and formost thing in life is to have a pose." this is an oscar
wilde quote. maybe that is true to a literate professional. //grin.
Homer: i got the books in china but did not
w********h
发帖数: 12367
20
来自主题: Reader版 - Antichrist: A Discussion
Antichrist: A Discussion
Posted In Featured,Web Exclusives
Dense, shocking, and thought-provoking, Lars von Trier’s Antichrist is a
film which calls for careful analysis. This web-exclusive exchange between
Film Quarterly editor Rob White and philosopher Nina Power is meant as a
first attempt at the in-depth debate that this major film deserves.
SPOILER WARNING: Please be aware that the piece assumes familiarity with
Antichrist and does contain major plot spoilers. For ease of reference, a
synop... 阅读全帖
i****l
发帖数: 579
21
来自主题: SciFiction版 - Foundation and Earth 99
发信人: slli (老良), 信区: SFworld
标 题: Foundation and Earth 99
发信站: BBS 水木清华站 (Tue Dec 7 22:32:47 1999)
Foundation and Earth
Part Seven
Earth
Chapter 20
The Nearby World
99.
The moon was a wasteland. Trevize watched the bright daylit portion
drifting past them below. It was a monotonous panorama of crater rings and
mountainous areas. And of shadows black against the sunlight. There were
subtle col
c****t
发帖数: 19049
22
由保罗·安德森执导、米拉·乔沃维奇领衔主演的《生化危机》游戏改编系列电影最新
作《生化危机5:惩罚》今日曝光全新横幅新海报,霸气十足的米拉·乔沃维奇手持双
枪从一片冰冻废墟中走来,两侧可以看到巨大的潜艇和船体,船身上是保护伞公司(
Umbrella)的标志。在《生化》系列电影中,保护伞公司是一个地下制造生化武器的药
厂,它表面上扮演着国际性的大药厂,其实暗中经营许多秘密计划,包括研究基因工程
与生产生化武器,正是由于其研究的T病毒泄露,导致地球成为了丧尸之地。
海报上方,醒目的亮出"Alice in Wasteland"的宣传语,化用“爱丽丝梦游仙境”
来影射光环女主角爱丽丝(米拉·乔沃维奇 饰)在本集中穿越全球废墟之地的杀戮之
旅。在最新一部《生化危机5》中,爱丽丝在看到了保护伞公司妄图毁灭整个世界后,
更加坚定了彻底消灭其存在的决心,并且将会面对已经被保护伞公司控制的吉儿(西耶
娜·盖尔利 饰)做出艰难的选择。
影片《生化危机5》讲述保护伞公司设计的致命T病毒仍然在世界各地肆虐,将人类
都转变成了吃人的不死丧尸。人类唯一的希望爱丽丝在保护伞公司最机密的操作设施中
苏醒过来,她将进一... 阅读全帖
i***e
发帖数: 180
23
来自主题: Translation版 - 我是荒原里受苦人沉默的朋友!
我是荒原里受苦人沉默的朋友!
It was translated
"I am a silent friend who suffers in the desert./wasteland/barrenland ?"
Which one is the best?
O*******e
发帖数: 1024
24
来自主题: Translation版 - 我是荒原里受苦人沉默的朋友!
no man's land?

我是荒原里受苦人沉默的朋友!
It was translated
"I am a silent friend who suffers in the desert./wasteland/barrenland ?"
Which one is the best?
C****i
发帖数: 1776
25
来自主题: TrustInJesus版 - 当代正统神学的任务 林慈信
当代正统神学的任务﹝七﹞:
亚历山大的革利免 (Clement of Alexandria) 与当代教会之一


在每一个时期,教会面对哲学与文化,都会有混合真理与世俗思想的诱惑;犹太教也是
如此。十九世纪末荷兰神学家与首相凯伯 (Abraham Kuyper)提醒他的同代基督徒,人类
的历史永远是真理和偶像敬拜之间的争战。廿世纪威敏斯特神学院护教学教授范泰尔 (
Cornelius Van Til) 曾发表一系列的护教学讲义,题为《争战中之基督教》 (Christi
anity in Conflict)。可是教会往往向世俗思想降服。今天华人教会对哲学与文化的立
场是什么?
在第一世纪,犹太教与希腊哲学的混合品,以斐罗 (Philo) 为代表。第二、第三世纪,
希腊哲学与基督教的真理混合,形成亚历山大教父 (Alexandrian Fathers) 的神学。当
时有些神学家将诺斯底主义的哲学性揣测,作为教会的信仰内容。在这过程中,他们用
了隐喻法来解释《圣经》 (allegorical interpretation)。这派基督教学者中最重要的
是亚历山大的革利免 (Clement ... 阅读全帖
g****e
发帖数: 222
26
来自主题: BNU版 - will M this
a friend is saying keep away from beer to keep in shape.
here's sth related to the dark side of beer from our school guide.
1 beer is rumored to cause weight gain. if you find that this
is the case for u. dont panic. eating a balanced diet and getting plenty
of exercise shld enable you to drink as much as beer as u like. dont under any
circumstance attempt to drink lite beer. a fell drink so tastelss
and wile that it will make ur life a bleak, mirthless wasteland.
2. consumed in excessive qu
n**e
发帖数: 2026
27
方舟子最近发了一篇博客文章《屠呦呦为何篡改本草纲目》,坚称中药青蒿不是黄花蒿
(Artemisia annua)。这篇文章的矛头所向直指青蒿素的发现者屠呦呦。
中药青蒿的植物来源《中华人民共和国药典》一九七七年前版均规定为菊科植物黄花蒿
(Artemisia annua)和青蒿(Artemisia. apiacea)。屠呦呦在《中药通报》1987-05-01
发表文章《中药青蒿的正品研究》。通过古医药文献考证、原植物、资源、化学成分比
较及药理作用、疗效等讨论,认为其植物来源仅应以A. annua一种为正品。
事实上认为黄花蒿就是中药青蒿不止屠呦呦一个人,全中国中医界和药学界在所有公开
出版物里一致公认黄花蒿就是中药青蒿。把屠呦呦当靶子表面上看是揭发屠呦呦有篡改
《本草纲目》的现行证据。其实方舟子真正仇恨的是屠呦呦说的一句话:青蒿素是“中
医药献给世界人民的一个礼物”。
屠呦呦认为青蒿素来自黄花蒿,黄花蒿就是中药青蒿,青蒿素理所当然就是中医药献给
世界人民的礼物。那么方舟子又是如何否定黄花蒿就是中药青蒿的,文章试图从三个方
面否定屠呦呦认定黄花蒿就是中药青蒿的理由(『』中文字均为方舟子... 阅读全帖
n**e
发帖数: 2026
28
来自主题: Biology版 - 方舟子青蒿素谎言大观
谎言1,『用两杯水(东晋的“升”很小,当时一升大约相当于现在的200毫升,也即一
杯)浸泡一把青蒿,即使用的是黄花蒿,也不太可能泡出能达到药理浓度的青蒿素。』
事实:葛洪原方“青蒿一握以水二升渍绞取汁尽服之”, “渍”-充分浸泡。“绞”—
用机械力破坏植物的原有结构使其内容物随水溢出。“取汁”与水混合在一起的青蒿细
胞内容物。“尽服之”-将所有绞出所得的混悬液全部作为药物服下。
谎言2,『一旦加热到60摄氏度,青蒿素的结构就被破坏,失去了活性,杀不死虐原虫
了。』
事实:Lutz Heide检测了不同的煎煮方法获得青蒿素含量的区别。让我们看提取效率最
低的一组:一升开水加入到9克干叶子,继续煮沸30分钟,室温下冷却再过滤,依然获
得了37.8mg/L的青蒿素,提取效率依然有30%。
Yi-Yu Cheng在该研究中发现,青蒿素在343.2K(即70摄氏度)中2小时后有轻微的(
slightly)降解(it was noticed that artemisinin decomposed slightly in the
solution at 343.2 K after 2 h)。
谎言3... 阅读全帖
l********u
发帖数: 823
29
来自主题: Environmental版 - Best firms to work for
除了第一句话,其他都深以为然。
至于排名,不过是一种label,如果我不清楚这个label怎么来的,对此不会当真。如同
所谓牛校等等,如果你身在其中,知道大多数人不过如此,那么这个牛的label也就没
了内容。所以,哪怕是院士,哪怕是诺贝尔奖得主,不过是label,label背后真正价值
在哪里,要靠时间证明,很多时候,甚至是很长很长时间。这是我跟LD两个在所谓牛校
混了几年后,收获最大的。因为见识过名声在外的所谓名教授被自己学生说是
intellectual wasteland,见过一篇篇PNAS是怎么蹿制出来的,也见过完全
established的教授如何焦虑到要看心理医生。
C******g
发帖数: 2930
30
来自主题: _Playstation3版 - sneak peek at Killzone 2 DLC
分开的视频
Vekta Cruiser Gameplay
Wasteland Bullet Gameplay
o******e
发帖数: 3522
31
来自主题: _Playstation3版 - 有人买killzone 2的新地图了吗?
正好,我这说说新地图
Cruiser: 就是单机版里,ISA航母那关。 这地图不大,不过分了很多层, 在高处可以
鸟瞰全局。玩得好的老手,就找个好点的高处位置,瞄准下面的人。 我刚开始玩这地
图被打得找不到北。
Wasteland: 就是单机版火车那关。这个地图很好玩。 地图很大,适合狙击。而且由于
火车分成平行的两列,对防守跟攻击都有很多影响。 而且每列火车分成上中下三层,
这对技战术的影响也很大。
Beach:这是killzone 1的地图,翻新了做出来的。 用一个字说就是:酷。 首先画面的
风格完全不像单机版游戏,而且总是处在暴雨跟雷电交加之下。 这个现场气氛非常浓
厚。 地形上,就是一个斜坡,中间几乎没有任何掩体。32人对战的时候,站在最高点
往下看,真会吓你一跳,所有敌人一览无遗。
Hill: 也是kz 1的翻新图。 也很不错。 而且会随机的出现核爆,刚玩的时候不知道,
核爆的时候需要找掩体,在外面被咋死了。 最好玩的是为了躲避核爆,两边的人抢掩
体,有的时候两边都没抢到,一推人全死。
总体来说,我觉得killzone 2的地图包很不错。 当然,因为我玩得也多。
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
32
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
What I've Done
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8sgycukafqQ
In this farewell
There’s no blood
There’s no alibi
‘Cause I’ve drawn regret
From the truth
Of a thousand lies
[Pre-Chorus:]
So let mercy come
And wash away
What I’ve done
[Chorus:]
I'll face myself
To cross out what I’ve become
Erase myself
And let go of what I’ve done
Put to rest
What you thought of me
While I clean this slate
With the hands of uncertainty
[Pre-Chorus]
[Chorus]
For what I’ve done
I start again
And whatever pain may come
... 阅读全帖
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
s******e
发帖数: 16668
34
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
藕系不系过份解读了呢?
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
35
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands

藕看木有,哈哈
很早以前看过一句很不愤的话,说摇滚都是反人类。这么看也不算错,虽然说这话那孩
子不是这个意思。
s******e
发帖数: 16668
36
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
Bjork Earth Intruders
这个MTV拍的非常catchy, 节奏和舞蹈都深深刻在脑海里,久久不散。
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j1Q9ppPPHjU&feature=kp
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
37
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands

这群影子舞者让我想到一个词 virus...
最后这是 Bjork 本人么?我一直不知道她长什么样子,这么看着很乖的怎么唱歌那么
dark
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
38
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
黑豹有首《绿色劫难》
http://www.xiami.com/song/180748
词曲:黑豹
专辑:光芒之神
嘿 你瞧 那绿色大地已被黄沙吞没
嘿 你瞧 那罪恶的手剥去我们的衣裳
眼前大地上倒下了一片片未来的希望
贪婪席卷了所有使一切凄凉
我们记忆中只剩下昨日美丽的衣裳
风暴撕碎了所有我那绿色的梦想
请你快快住手
在这世界尽头
让我忏悔所有过错
就这样我们毁掉了自己的未来
我已不想怒吼
在生命最后
你们已被黄沙埋没
你是否看到明天你自己的墓碑
在这个角落
嘿 你瞧 那七彩的光已被驱赶到哪里
嘿 你瞧 是贪婪的人毁掉自己家乡
给你一点血液
唤醒死去生灵
让他看看这个世界
已失去水和光对绿色的希望
我要伸开臂膀
挡住无知疯狂
别再糟蹋最后希望
让阳光雨露哺育出绿色景象
生命的故乡
s******e
发帖数: 16668
39
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
是她本人。我只听过她这一首歌。
s******e
发帖数: 16668
40
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
因为这首歌的MV足够有名。。。
s******e
发帖数: 16668
41
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
谢谢推荐!以前都不知道这首歌。
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
42
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands

寡闻了,我都不知道。我就见过她一个专辑封面,好像还没人的那种,听声音老觉得她
长得应该很现代科技化。没想到挺普通一个女孩。
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
43
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands

黑豹第二章专辑《光芒之神》我一直都挺喜欢的,里面好几首都挺好听,栾树的声音我
觉得不错。那时候对窦唯也不熟,所以没有感情障碍,就觉得好听了。
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
44
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
Another new song. 现在不看歌词光看歌名就觉得环保... 林肯公园说这是他们史上最
重的专辑,他们歌我听得不多,警长怎么看?现在出来的两首够不够重?
Until It's Gone
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oM-XJD4J36U
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nym1P-BO_ws
A fire needs a space to burn
A breath to build a glow
I've heard it said a thousand times
But now I know
That you don't know what you've got
Oh you don't know what you've got
No you don't know what you've got
Until it's gone
I thought I kept you safe and sound
I thought I made you strong
But something made me real... 阅读全帖
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
45
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
iTunes 有了好几首
http://itunes.apple.com/us/album/the-hunting-party/id873395041
我还是喜欢买CD... 现在Amazon多数唱片都给auto rip成mp3,不用自己动手了。
s******e
发帖数: 16668
46
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands
嘿嘿。‘重’ 作 zhong 还是 chong 解?
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
47
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands

哈哈。。。。 Rolling Stones 说是heaviest
R*******e
发帖数: 25533
48
来自主题: _LoTaYu版 - Linkin Park:Wastelands

他们歌好像确实都一个调
w*******y
发帖数: 60932
49
Figure this would be a great gift idea, and at a great price.
Link:
http://www.amazon.com/John-Wayne-Ultimate-Collection-25-Movies/dp/B001RHGRPW/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1289165356&sr=8-1
John Wayne-Ultimate Collection 25 Movies
Movies included;
John Wayne remains one of the most beloved icons in the history of American
film. With over 142 lead performances, his prolific career established him
as the symbol of an American West that epitomized the virtues of courage,
toughness, humor and loyalty. T... 阅读全帖
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