n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 1 离开耶和华见证人，转向基督——Gordon Cook的见证
转载自：「Leaving the Jehovah's Witnesses and coming to Christ--Gordon Cook'
s Story」https://carm.org/christianity/testimonies/leaving-jehovahs-
witnesses-and-coming-christ-gordon-cooks-story
My upbringing was not particularly religious. 我的背景不是太虔诚。My father
was Church of England, though I never knew him go to church, but he did
believe in God.我的父亲属于英国教会，但我从未见过他上教堂，虽然他说自己相信
有神。 My mother was in the Salvation Army and attended fairly regularly, I
went occasionally. But no attempt was made to give me any religious teaching
. My father had to give up work through ill health, so family life was a bit
of a struggle back then in the early 1960’s. My mother died when I was 16.
I had an older brother and sister but they lived away from home.
Because of the family situation, it just being my father and myself, as soon
as I left school I had to get a job.我出来工作。 so any plans for further
education went out the window. I suppose I embarked on the usual things for
a young man going out drinking etc, with friends. Strangely in our sessions
in local pubs we often discussed God, why are we here, where are we going,
the usual questions. 我们常在酒吧讨论神的问题， I started to be drawn to the
Bible 我开始被圣经吸引，wanting to know what it said about God, life and me
. By the time I was 19 I was thinking of going into the ministry, I even
contacted the Salvation Army about becoming an officer with them and the
Church of England on becoming a minister. In fact the C of E wrote back to
arrange a meeting to discuss it.
At this time a friend of mine was working with a Jehovah’s Witness and he
used to tell what the Jehovah's Witness was telling him. 我有一个耶和华见证
人朋友，常告诉我们，耶和华见证人怎么讲。I thought it sounded interesting,
not really knowing anything about the Jehovah's Witnesses at the time. So a
meeting was arranged with one of their Elders. The way that that Elder
answered questions and used the Bible in what seemed a logical and concise
way I was drawn in. This seemed to be what I wanted , to learn about the
Bible and what it said. So I started a “Bible study” with them,我向他们学
习圣经， in that they use a book with their doctrines in and use Bible
verses to back them up. This was March 1971; I would be 20 in April. I
studied two books over the next 9 months or so, and was baptised as a
Jehovah's Witness on January 6th. 1972. 我受洗成为耶和华见证人， I had
already been going out on the door-to-door ministry 逐家逐户传教，that
Jehovah's Witnesses are known for, very difficult to do when you are a shy
person. I won’t go into what they do deeply just that you have to attended
5 meetings a week, 每星期参加五次聚会，2 of which are 2 hours long, 其中两个
是两小时长的，go on field ministry regularly and put a report in at the end
of each month saying how many hours you had done and how many magazines (
Watchtower and Awake) books etc 每个月底写传教时间、销售书籍等的报告，you
had placed with people. Records are kept on all the people you have spoken
to so you can call back on them.
In July 1974 I got married to a Jehovah's Witness girl, by October 1975 we
had a son, eventually we had 7 children.我和一个耶和华见证人女孩结了婚，有七
个孩子。 It was a very routine way of life. 生活一切平淡。I was working,
attending meetings etc everything ce ntred around the Jehovah's Witness way
of life.生活是围绕著耶和华见证人。 The Jehovah's Witness is centred on the
organisation, by that I mean the “Watchtower Bible and Tract Society”
which is the organisation that runs the Jehovah's Witnesses, also known as
the Watchtower, of the Society. The view is that the Watchtower is “God’s
only means of communication to man” the only true religion on earth, “God
’s only means of salvation on earth” if you are not in the Watchtower then
you will die at Armageddon! To question the organisation is to question
Jehovah himself and no one did that or you where out.
In time I started to feel something feel something was wrong. 我开始感觉有一
点不对劲。At meetings when scripture was used I began to realise that many
of them just did not fit what was being said from the platform. 在聚会中，他
们使用的经文并不适合他们在讲的。 Scriptures taken out of context made to fit
the Jehovah's Witness teaching. 他们不管经文的上下文，I would read the
surrounding verses and realise that sometimes they were saying the opposite
of what was being taught. 我读上下文时，了解到他们有时讲的，刚刚是相反的。
Also the Jehovah's Witness teaching sidelines Jesus Christ, Jehovah's
Witness teaching is that Jesus is the archangel Michael not part of a
Trinity which they see as a pagan teaching. 他们说耶稣是天使长米迦勒，反对三
位一体，并以耶稣为配角。But in my reading of scripture all I saw was Jesus
Christ by who we were saved and not being part of an organisation and doing
the works it said we had to do to be saved. 但是，当我读圣经，到处都讲到耶稣
怎么样救了我。I discussed my feeling with a couple of the Elders, but was
told to keep quiet about it, or I could be in trouble. 我和长老讨论，但他们
叫我闭嘴，否则有麻烦。So I put it to the back of my mind though I went
through a period where I would literally shake with the thought of having to
go to a meeting. I often wonder now if it was the Lord trying to tell me
something. But fear kept me in the Jehovah's Witnesses.因为惧怕，我留在组织
里。
By now 1990 I was also a ministerial servant (deacon) in the congregation.
直到1990年，我成为教会的執事，Giving talks from the platform, even 45-minute
public talks on a Sunday. 在讲台教训人， As well as items, ranging from 5-
20 minutes during other meetings. I was also in charge of literature, that
is all the books, brochures, tracts, that are used on the field ministry. 管
理 书籍等等，Through all this I was still having certain doubts, but never
tempted to look elsewhere for information.我心里仍然存著怀疑。
Now by 1995 I was struggling at home to make ends meet, having 7 children, a
home and the expense of all that started to prove to much. 我现在有经济困难
，My job was not paying all that much and looked like it may finish also. so
I started using credit cards and a loan to pay for everything and got
deeper and deeper into debt. 越来越陷入债务。By April 1996 I didn’t know
where to turn and suffered a breakdown I just went off one day took some
money from work. 我精神崩潰了，I went to the Lake District via Blackpool,
spent about a week there just walking over the hills. Then decided to kill
myself, 企图自杀。so I took about 30 tablets, paracetemol, aspirin and drank
a bottle of brandy. This was in the evening sitting on a hill overlooking
the valley at Windermere, thinking how beautiful it was. I gradually lost
consciousness, and then woke up next morning feeling awful. Then for some
reason I staggered back to where I was staying, and stayed in bed all day. I
decided to head for a hospital, but decided to head for one near home.
I arrived at the hospital in the evening. 我到医院去，They put me on a drip
to try to clear the drugs out of my system. They contacted an Elder who came
the next morning, who later brought my wife. Because I had tried to commit
suicide I was “sectioned” and sent to a psychiatric hospital. 他们送我到精
神病院。There I was diagnosed as having “acute clinical depression” and
according to the doctors probably had it for a number of years but
suppressed it and it came to a head in the breakdown I had. Also they said
depression seems to be common amongst Jehovah’s Witnesses, 他们告诉我，在耶
和华见证人中，抑郁是常见的。I was the third or fourth one they had had that
year.我是那年第三或第四个， For a small group of people the ratio was quite
high for depression.对於一个这么小的群组，百分率算非常高。
Now this is where my faith was shaken. 於是，我的信仰开始动摇。I now thought
that being in “Jehovah’s loving organisation” I would get help to
overcome the depression. 我以为了在「耶和华的爱的团体」里，我可以得到帮助。
Boy! Was I wrong? 我错了吗？Though spending 6 weeks in hospital no Elder
would spend time with me. 我花了六个星期在医院，长老们少有花时间和我谈话，只
有把我太太带来。They may bring my wife but did not want to stay and talk.,
but I saw the ministers of other patients visiting them. 但是我看见其他病人
的牧师来访问他们。Eventually I was put on anti-depressants and sent home. 后
来，我服食抗抑郁剂，被遣回家。This is now May 1996. I was very rarely
visited by anyone 其他人也少有来看我，except Elders, the rest of the
congregation would be “advised” to stay away, I was a danger. 聚集中其他人
被「劝告」远离我，因为我是危险人物。I had to appear before a judicial
committee of three elders, where I was “privately reproved.” 我要在教会的
法庭式委员会前，我被「私下责备」。 Their answer to my problem consisted of I
should going out on the door-to-door work more and attending the meetings.
解决的办法就是逐户传教和参加聚会。People I had known for years stopped
speaking to me. 认识多年的人不再和我谈话。My wife was more concerned about
her standing in the congregation. 我的妻子也只关心她在教会里的地位。She
stopped sleeping with me; she would sleep on the sofa downstairs.她不再和我
同床。 I do not know how this was affecting my children at the time because
it all seemed so surreal to me what was happening in “Jehovah’s loving
organisation”. I managed to get a job anyway, but it was shift work so it
meant I would miss some meetings. Which seemed to upset people more.
Then in December 1996 my wife asked me to leave home, 我的妻子请我离开。just
what someone who has depression needs! Later I found out this was under the
influence of the Elders I was considered “a spiritual danger to the family
” so had to go. 以后，我发现，原来这是长老们的影响，因为他们认为我是「灵性
上伤害家庭」，所以应该赶走。 My wife even found me a bedsit to live in, in
the next town so that we would not attend the same congregation. I started
attending the congregation but had that feeling that they were weary of me.
The Elders here, where no better, not one of them asked if they could visit
me and have a chat.我太太为了我找到一个住处，是属於另一个聚会点的。这里的长
老也好不到那里。
Not long after moving out, my eldest son, a Jehovah's Witness, came to live
with me. He having not agreed with what was going on with me. So we moved to
a bigger place. We both continued attending the Jehovah's Witness meetings.
Then my second son came to live with me. He was not a Jehovah's Witness but
because he would not accept and become one his mother was making it awkward
for him at home. This meant I had to get a bigger place. Then sometime
later my second daughter came as well, she was a Jehovah's Witness. This was
because of something that occurred at home. 因为各种原因，我的两个儿子和女
孩搬到和我住。 During this time I had started looking into the teachings and
history of Jehovah’s Witnesses. 在这期间，我开始研究耶和华见证人的教导和历
史。What I found shook me I learnt about the false way in which they
portrayed Jesus, the Holy Spirit, and had twisted scripture to suit their
views. 我的发现使我震惊。他们教导有关耶稣是错的，歪曲圣经以适合他们的话，
Plus the history of false prophecies, 错误的预言，changes in teachings and
doctrine over the years, 教义一直在修改，showed it was nothing more than a
man-made organisation. I stopped going to meetings in August 1999, my son
and daughter who lived me had already done so. 我和孩子们都停止参加聚会。 In
fact in September 1999 they both “disassociated” themselves from the
Jehovah’s Witnesses. This means that no Jehovah's Witness could speak to
them of have anything to do with them, even their own mother.耶和华见证人不
再和他们来往，即使他们的母亲亦然。
I still wanted to worship God but didn’t know where to go or what to do. 我
还是想要敬拜神，但不知道怎么做。As a Jehovah's Witness you are taught that
all other religions are apostate, satanic, demonic etc. 当我在耶和华见证人，
我被告知，所有其他宗教都是撒但的，变节的等等。One of the books about the
Jehovah's Witnesses I had read was published by the Reachout Trust, which
help people in my situation. 我读到一本书，是帮助像我这样的耶和华见证人的，
So I wrote to them asking 我给他们写信求助，for help and they put me in
touch with their representative who happen to live not far away. He came to
see me and help me see the “Christian” view of things. 他们帮助我明白「基
督徒」的观点。He took me to a couple of meetings he was attending but they
didn’t feel right to me. Then he took in March 2000 to a meeting at a place
called the Narrowgate centre. It was here that I gave myself to Christ. 我
将自己奉给基督。 But it was a bit far for me to get to so I thought of going
to the main church which was the Wirral Christian Centre, Birkenhead an
Elim Pentecostal church. I tried to go one Sunday evening but couldn’t
pluck the courage to go in. 我没有勇气进到教堂里。Then the next day the
assistant Pastor rang up and said he had been given my name, could he come
to see me? He came and we had a chat and I told him about nearly going in to
the church. 次日，牧师来见我，谈话。So he said he would come next Sunday
and pick me up, 下一个星期日，他来接我。which he did. I was a bit
apprehensive it was like the other end of the scale compared to a Jehovah's
Witness meeting. But the place was so alive and everyone so friendly.那教堂
是非常活泼和亲切。 The singing was marvellous such joy in the songs and the
congregation singing them. Though the shouts of “Hallelujah and Amen” and
speaking in tongues was a bit unnerving at first. I couldn’t believe the
amount of prayer also, but it was so heartfelt with feeling. The sermon by
Pastor Paul Epton bowled me over. I thought “Yes that’s how the word of
God should be spoken” its alive!
By December 2000 I had been attending the church about 9 months. My eldest
son decided to come with me one Sunday evening just to see what I was
getting into. 九个月之后，我的儿子随著我来参加，He ended up giving himself
to Christ! 也接受了基督！ When the subject of baptism came up and they
announced the next baptism would be on January 7th 2001. I jumped when I
heard this, and said I wanted to be baptised. 我受了浸礼。This would be
exactly 29 years from when I was baptised as a Jehovah's Witness.这是我在耶
和华见证人里受洗后的29年。
During this time I was still seeing my children who lived with my wife,
three daughters and a son. 在此期间，我常常见到和我妻子同住的孩子们。In
September 2001 while at work two Jehovah's Witness elders called at the
house, to see me. My son answered the door; they said they would call back.
Considering that I had not been to a Jehovah's Witness meeting for two years
this was the first time they had called in two years. 我离开之后两年，耶和
华见证人的长老来看我。Also one of the Elders only lived a 5-minute walk away
and in that time had not bothered to call. I knew the only reason they
where calling was because instructions had gone out from Watchtower HQ to
try and get those Jehovah's Witnesses who had become inactive, left,
disfellowshipped to return because they where dropping in numbers.他们来，原
因是守望台总部下令要找回那些不活跃的和被赶走的。 Anyway I wrote to them
saying that I was disassociating myself and that I was now a Christian. 我告
诉他们，我是一个基督徒了。This meant that my wife, two daughters who were
Jehovah's Witnesses could not have anything to do with me.我的太太和两个女儿
都不再和我来往了。 Though my wife had not spoken to me since August 1999
anyway. The only children I now see are my two youngest a son (14) and
daughter (13) they have to come to me as I am not allowed to their house. So
a wife and mother, sisters and brothers, are forbidden to speak to us
because a man-made organisation says so. Based on their interpretation of
scripture.
So where are we now? Well my son and myself are still attending the Wirral
Christian Centre. We have had our ups and downs. I get the occasional bout
of depression but now I no longer feel alone, now that I have Christ.我仍然
偶尔有抑郁，但是我不再孤独了，因为我有基督了。 I still have financial
problems that need sorting but I no longer let them dominate my life. I find
that the prayer and support are there from others also. 我仍有经济问题，但
我发现，祈祷和其他人也帮忙。The Lord through the Pastor has told me not to
worry about the rest of the family He will deal with them in time. Also that
I will have a two year period of ups and downs but will everything will
eventually sort itself out, all I have to do is stay close to Him.事情慢慢变
好了，我所需要的，就是紧靠耶稣。
One thing that has happened is that my daughter who lived with me for a
while, she is now 20, last Sunday evening gave herself to Christ. 我的20岁的
女儿也归向基督了。The Lord will work everything out in His own time; I just
have to wait on him. 主会慢慢帮忙我，我只需要等待他。 It is the difference
between relying on a man-made organisation and relying on our Saviour Jesus
Christ, who dwells in us.这就是依靠一个人的组织和依靠我们的救主耶稣基督的不
同。
by Gordon Cook
[email protected]
/* */ | m****r
发帖数: 1904 | 2 每个人的确有选择信仰的自由。希望作者真能像他说的那样，找到了他的信仰寄托。我
去过各大主流教派的教会。也欢迎你能听听耶和华见证人的演讲。对我来讲，演讲属灵
水平不是相差一点半点。当然想成为一个耶和华见证人并不容易。你可以听别人讲这讲
那，我看不到你自己真实的思想—至少我们讨论“三位一体”的时候是这样的。我在美
国许多州都呆过，属灵强属灵弱的耶证团体都呆过。自己如果不及时纠正自己的错误思
想，总是把原因归到别人身上，那么很容易离开最讲真理的地方。 | n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 3 worship耶稣的问题搞明白了没有？
worship？ or not worship?
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 每个人的确有选择信仰的自由。希望作者真能像他说的那样，找到了他的信仰寄托。我
: 去过各大主流教派的教会。也欢迎你能听听耶和华见证人的演讲。对我来讲，演讲属灵
: 水平不是相差一点半点。当然想成为一个耶和华见证人并不容易。你可以听别人讲这讲
: 那，我看不到你自己真实的思想—至少我们讨论“三位一体”的时候是这样的。我在美
: 国许多州都呆过，属灵强属灵弱的耶证团体都呆过。自己如果不及时纠正自己的错误思
: 想，总是把原因归到别人身上，那么很容易离开最讲真理的地方。
| m****r
发帖数: 1904 | 4 非常谢谢你的关心！不过我的答案一定会令你失望的。我最主要只崇拜耶和华，从来不
相信三位一体。
无论是我刚到美国初学圣经，还是现在。八年潜心研究圣经让我认识了天父，耶和华还
有他的儿子耶稣。我只崇拜耶和华!不过耶稣的榜样也一样令我钦佩和崇拜和效法。只
不过程度比父亲低一些。但是无论是三位一体还是非三位一体的概念也好，父亲是赐给
儿子生命的，是比子大的，本来就该受崇拜多一些。这个常识无论用在哪里都是正确的
。包括中国的《論語‧陽貨》朱熹的注釋為：「倫，序也。人之大倫有五：父子
有親，君臣有義，夫婦有別，長幼有序，朋友有信是也。」（註三）在五倫中「父子」
、「君臣」、「夫婦」、「長幼」的關係皆是「有序」或「有節」，表示這些關係，並
非是一種平
等對待的水平關係，而是有上下不同層級差別的垂直關係。（http://www.ncu.edu.tw/~phi/NRAE/newsletter/no39/06.pdf）
只崇拜儿子的教义不但破坏了上帝的秩序，也破坏伦理的关系。我没有学圣经的时候就
知道。
于情于理，都是讲不通的。上面的链接里讲到了儿子要对父亲有敬意。如果耶稣作为儿
子，让大家崇拜他，而不是父亲，是对父亲有敬意的行为吗？我现在是站在一个非基督
徒的地位跟你分析这个想法不符合全世界人民文化的常理。
约翰福音
10：34耶稣说、你们的律法上岂不是写着、『我曾说你们是 神』么。
10:35 经上的话是不能废的．若那些承受 神道的人、尚且称为 神、
10:36 父所分别为圣、又差到世间来的、他自称是 神的儿子、你们还向他说、你
说僭妄的话么。
经文上都写着“人”尚且可以称为“神”，现在叫做“粉丝”，你能阻止视张国荣为神
的人停止崇拜他吗？复活节捡蛋的除了“崇拜”耶稣还同时“崇拜”兔子。你是觉得我
单独崇拜耶和华好一些呢？还是你们崇拜耶稣的同时崇拜兔子（来源异教）好一些呢？
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
: worship耶稣的问题搞明白了没有？
: worship？ or not worship?
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 5 如果你信的是犹太教，我不会问你这问题的。
三位一体已经囊括了你说的"三位“的差异性，还有你忽略的”一体“部分，理解不了
没办法。同样，你理解神与全世界基督徒”同时而异地“同在吗？非基督教徒很难明白
的,因为超越了一般时空概念。但上帝创造了时空，超越了时空，也同在于时空。如何
以局限于时空中的人，来理解创造时空的上帝不容易。问题不在于明白，而是是否接受
圣经所表明了的。
Revelation Chapter 5
http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/revelation/5/
13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the
earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One
sitting on the throne+ and to the Lamb+ be the blessing and the honor+ and
the glory and the might forever and ever.”+ 14 The four living creatures
were saying: “Amen!” and the elders fell down and 【worshipped】.
可见耶证的版本也表明: 圣父圣子同享崇拜。
撇开三位一体，你应该承认耶稣是你生命的救主吧？
“你们杀了生命的主，神却叫他从死里复活了；我们都是为这事作见证“（使徒行传3
：15）
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 非常谢谢你的关心！不过我的答案一定会令你失望的。我最主要只崇拜耶和华，从来不
: 相信三位一体。
: 无论是我刚到美国初学圣经，还是现在。八年潜心研究圣经让我认识了天父，耶和华还
: 有他的儿子耶稣。我只崇拜耶和华!不过耶稣的榜样也一样令我钦佩和崇拜和效法。只
: 不过程度比父亲低一些。但是无论是三位一体还是非三位一体的概念也好，父亲是赐给
: 儿子生命的，是比子大的，本来就该受崇拜多一些。这个常识无论用在哪里都是正确的
: 。包括中国的《論語‧陽貨》朱熹的注釋為：「倫，序也。人之大倫有五：父子
: 有親，君臣有義，夫婦有別，長幼有序，朋友有信是也。」（註三）在五倫中「父子」
: 、「君臣」、「夫婦」、「長幼」的關係皆是「有序」或「有節」，表示這些關係，並
: 非是一種平
| m****r
发帖数: 1904 | 6 我很希望你能直接回答我的问题：你们并不单独崇拜耶稣，还崇拜很多异教的神，比如
复活节的兔子，比如万胜节的鬼，比如圣诞节的太阳神。你如果有孩子，在复活节的时
候去捡蛋，请问你有什么感想？如果你是个虔诚的基督徒？你不觉得很抹煞耶稣死而复
生的意义吗？我本人就是个宁为玉碎，不为瓦全的人。我不可能同时感激耶稣复生，带
给我们永生的希望，同时又去捡异教起源的蛋。我宁愿别人说我傻，也不会做这样亵渎
神的傻事。当然主流教会的人肯定不这么想，不过我还是很感激至少有一个耶证和我的
想法是一模一样的。
耶证崇拜的是独一的真神，耶和华，这不是耶证的独创，而是圣经的吩咐和记载。
我前面帖子的意思是告诉你“崇拜”这个词有很多程度的区别。官方定义可以说崇拜一
个神，但是人有时候对敬佩的人一样有这样的思想，并且也管他们叫作神。我个人的观
点和解释请不要耶证官方的定义混淆，请更不要把我的思想等同就是耶证的。
计算机都可以“同时异地”，这没什么不好理解的。所有人都可以同时向上帝祷告，这
也不难理解。上帝的确超越了时空，但是他给了他创造的人类一本书：圣经。上帝在圣
经里从人的角度对人说话，并且在雅各书中讲：你亲近上帝，他就会亲近你。他真的离
你不远，和蔼可亲，如果他真是个傲君，为什么希望你通过圣经了解他呢？只不过和人
的一般认识不同，认识他需要通过心灵，正确的心灵崇拜就可以使你“看见”他，而且
他还会像慈父严母一样纠正你的错误。我们需要做的，就像他说的陶匠需要有可塑性好
的泥才可以接受他的教导，正确的心态就是可塑性好的前提之一。
我不知道上帝对你有多真实，但是从你的言语来看，似乎遥不可及，但是他真的不是这
样的，他已经是我生活中的一部分了，而且我知道他深爱我。理论再怎么多，都没有和
上帝建立好的私人关系更有意义的了。而且这种关系反过来更能认证我所学的理论是正
确的。
我想如果你有一颗可塑的心，并且接受耶和华的管教，那么或许有一天你会真的明白我
在说什么。
【在 n********n 的大作中提到】
: 如果你信的是犹太教，我不会问你这问题的。
: 三位一体已经囊括了你说的"三位“的差异性，还有你忽略的”一体“部分，理解不了
: 没办法。同样，你理解神与全世界基督徒”同时而异地“同在吗？非基督教徒很难明白
: 的,因为超越了一般时空概念。但上帝创造了时空，超越了时空，也同在于时空。如何
: 以局限于时空中的人，来理解创造时空的上帝不容易。问题不在于明白，而是是否接受
: 圣经所表明了的。
: Revelation Chapter 5
: http://www.jw.org/en/publications/bible/nwt/books/revelation/5/
: 13 And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and underneath the
: earth+ and on the sea, and all the things in them, saying: “To the One
| b********h
发帖数: 2451 | 7 同学，这些崇拜兔子，鬼的指控，真的无从说起啊。
我们教会复活节从来没有崇拜兔子，都是传讲的基督复活，兔子，彩蛋只是个玩具，装
饰而已，从没有人
崇拜，难道有基督徒认为兔子和彩蛋在复活节有特殊的含义？难道有基督徒认为我们是
靠兔子和彩蛋得救？
之所以复活节也兔子和彩蛋，的确可能是其他的文化传统，比如说兔子在西方文化传统
是春天的象征，所以看到兔子，联想到春天，联想到复活节，同样蛋代表新的生命，以
此为耶稣复活，给我们新生命的象征，也正常不过。如果这是崇拜兔子和彩蛋，请问，
你说的语言是中文，也源于异教徒的中国，是不是也算异教崇拜？就是崇拜这两个字最
早也是描述古代中国拜祖先神灵的行为，是不是连崇拜这两个字都不要了？
至于万圣节，据我所知，很多华人教会都不提倡过的，也没有你所指控的崇拜鬼的传说。
个人认为你的思维模式已经完全与这个世界脱节，你活在你的周围团体给你编造的谎话
当中。连你自己都知道基督徒的教义是反偶像崇拜，只拜唯一真神，觉得基督徒“崇拜
”兔子，和鬼自相矛盾。你有没有仔细想过，自相矛盾的不是基督徒，而是这些控告言
论本身呢？
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 我很希望你能直接回答我的问题：你们并不单独崇拜耶稣，还崇拜很多异教的神，比如
: 复活节的兔子，比如万胜节的鬼，比如圣诞节的太阳神。你如果有孩子，在复活节的时
: 候去捡蛋，请问你有什么感想？如果你是个虔诚的基督徒？你不觉得很抹煞耶稣死而复
: 生的意义吗？我本人就是个宁为玉碎，不为瓦全的人。我不可能同时感激耶稣复生，带
: 给我们永生的希望，同时又去捡异教起源的蛋。我宁愿别人说我傻，也不会做这样亵渎
: 神的傻事。当然主流教会的人肯定不这么想，不过我还是很感激至少有一个耶证和我的
: 想法是一模一样的。
: 耶证崇拜的是独一的真神，耶和华，这不是耶证的独创，而是圣经的吩咐和记载。
: 我前面帖子的意思是告诉你“崇拜”这个词有很多程度的区别。官方定义可以说崇拜一
: 个神，但是人有时候对敬佩的人一样有这样的思想，并且也管他们叫作神。我个人的观
| m****r
发帖数: 1904 | 8 很高兴知道你的想法。
我的思想的确和你们不一样。但是在过宗教节日这方面我和非基的代表“真神”，方舟
子的观点是一样的。
我最喜欢考古，什么事情都要研究清楚。宗教节日也是如此。如果你有时间的话，请你读
一本书"CELEBRATIONS--The Complete Book of AMERICAN HOLIDAYS".这里面讲解
了所有美国宗教节日的由来，或者请你ｇｏｏｇｌｅ一下任何一个美国宗教节日，都和异
教有关系。我要按照上帝的话语生活，你怎么评论无所谓，但是我要向上帝交代清楚。
不能同时在上帝和撒但的筵席上同吃，同庆祝，这是神的话语。
可能你很多东西你还不了解。不过只要你觉得良心无愧的话，你当然可以继续过你的基
督徒
生活，我上了一个更高层次，把基督教节日中的异教元素去掉，也不应该被认为是有病
吧。
我在这里用“崇拜”这个词对你可能不大合适，这是因为我在和楼主讨论崇拜耶稣
的问题带出来的。教会当然是崇拜基督来着，但是主流教会这种把异教的色彩带到基督
教由来已久。比如圣诞节就是异教太阳节和基督诞生的结合的产物。基督大概是十月份
出生，他出生时期是牧羊人还在放羊。他的生日从来都不是１２月２５日。圣经没有说
是几号
，显然耶稣也没想让大家庆祝他的生日。倒是说他死的日子意义重大。１２月２５日是
异教
太阳神的日子，那么把他们结合在一起就能让更多的异教徒成为基督徒可能是教会的初
衷，但是
基督教不小心同时也被异化了。降低了自己的标准。
我和你们相反，我是先做研究再找教会。对宗教节日的考古，让我不能进入任何主流教
派，我知道我自己在崇拜什么。所以很感谢你给我的劝解，不过其实用在你自己身上可
能更合适一些。
【在 b********h 的大作中提到】
: 同学，这些崇拜兔子，鬼的指控，真的无从说起啊。
: 我们教会复活节从来没有崇拜兔子，都是传讲的基督复活，兔子，彩蛋只是个玩具，装
: 饰而已，从没有人
: 崇拜，难道有基督徒认为兔子和彩蛋在复活节有特殊的含义？难道有基督徒认为我们是
: 靠兔子和彩蛋得救？
: 之所以复活节也兔子和彩蛋，的确可能是其他的文化传统，比如说兔子在西方文化传统
: 是春天的象征，所以看到兔子，联想到春天，联想到复活节，同样蛋代表新的生命，以
: 此为耶稣复活，给我们新生命的象征，也正常不过。如果这是崇拜兔子和彩蛋，请问，
: 你说的语言是中文，也源于异教徒的中国，是不是也算异教崇拜？就是崇拜这两个字最
: 早也是描述古代中国拜祖先神灵的行为，是不是连崇拜这两个字都不要了？
| b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | 9
你读
和异
========================
唯独你就没有找和研究你教会创办起家, 发迹的始末， 尤其是在那些不甚光彩
的一面。
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 很高兴知道你的想法。
: 我的思想的确和你们不一样。但是在过宗教节日这方面我和非基的代表“真神”，方舟
: 子的观点是一样的。
: 我最喜欢考古，什么事情都要研究清楚。宗教节日也是如此。如果你有时间的话，请你读
: 一本书"CELEBRATIONS--The Complete Book of AMERICAN HOLIDAYS".这里面讲解
: 了所有美国宗教节日的由来，或者请你ｇｏｏｇｌｅ一下任何一个美国宗教节日，都和异
: 教有关系。我要按照上帝的话语生活，你怎么评论无所谓，但是我要向上帝交代清楚。
: 不能同时在上帝和撒但的筵席上同吃，同庆祝，这是神的话语。
: 可能你很多东西你还不了解。不过只要你觉得良心无愧的话，你当然可以继续过你的基
: 督徒
| m****h
发帖数: 1672 | 10 不承认耶稣基督是三位一体的神，最大的问题是救赎。
一个人只能为另一个人代罪，不能同时为众多的信徒代罪。
耶稣基督必须是神，才能以一代众。 | | | m****r
发帖数: 1904 | 11 耶稣来到地上，“献出自己的魂，作为换取许多人的赎价”。（马太福音20:28）赎价
就是为了买回某件东西，或使某人获得释放而付出的价值。翻做“赎价”的希伯来语动
词，含有遮罪或赎罪的意思。（诗篇78:38）翻做“赎价”的希腊词，例如马太福音20:
28所用的，尤其是指为了赎回战俘或为奴隶赎身而付出的代价。为了符合公正的标准，
人要换取一件东西，就必须付出一件具有同等价值的东西。
第一个人反叛上帝，导致全人类陷于受奴役的情况。正如创世记第3章透露，完美的人
亚当蓄意叛逆耶和华上帝，结果把自己和他当时还没有出生的后代，卖给了罪和死亡而
沦为奴隶。因此，亚当使自己和所有后代都丧失了完美属人的生命。——罗马书5:12，
18，19;7:14。
在古代的以色列国，上帝规定以祭牲给人民遮罪或赎罪。（利未记1:4;4:20，35）事实
上，祭物的生命取代了罪人的生命。（利未记17:11）因此，“赎罪日”也可以称为“
赎价日”。——利未记23:26-28。
然而，动物既低于人，“公牛和山羊的血是不可能［完全］除罪的”。（希伯来书10:1
-4）祭牲必须跟亚当所失去的东西具有同等价值，才足以永久为人赎罪或除罪。根据上
帝的公正标准，必须有一个完美的人（耶稣基督），才能抵消另一个完美的人（亚当）
所失去的东西。人类的始祖亚当把所有后代卖作奴隶;必须有人付出一个完美属人的生
命，才能够把他们从奴役中救赎出来。必须“以命偿命”，才能符合真正的公平标准。
——出埃及记21:23-25。
亚当犯罪后被判处死刑，当时他的后代还没有出生，就在他体内跟他一起死去了。完美
的人耶稣是“最后的亚当”，他甘愿放弃了结婚生子、成家立室的权利。（哥林多前书
15:45）耶稣牺牲了自己完美属人的生命而死去，当时他的后代还没有出生，仍然在他
体内。耶稣本可以产生一族人类，但他这些后代可说跟他一同死去了。耶稣放弃了为自
己建立家室的权利，把亚当那些有罪、垂死的家人收归己有。耶稣牺牲了自己那完美属
人的生命，借此把亚当的所有后代买回来，使这些人成为他自己的家人。
耶稣的赎价牺牲为顺服的人类打开机会，使他们得蒙上帝怜悯，享有永远的生命。因此
，使徒保罗写道:“罪给人的工价就是死亡，但上帝借着我们的主基督耶稣给人的恩赐
，就是永远的生命。”（罗马书6:23）为了付出赎价，耶和华和他的爱子付出了沉重的
代价，由此把他对人类的挚爱和怜悯表露无遗。这令我们深受感动而衷心赞美他。（约
翰福音3:16）耶稣复活获得属天的生命，把他的赎价牺牲的价值在天上呈交给上帝，他
的确是“父亲那里［的］一位帮助者”。*（希伯来书9:11，12，24;彼得前书3:18）
【在 m****h 的大作中提到】
: 不承认耶稣基督是三位一体的神，最大的问题是救赎。
: 一个人只能为另一个人代罪，不能同时为众多的信徒代罪。
: 耶稣基督必须是神，才能以一代众。
| G*M
发帖数: 6042 | 12 为啥？神说能就能，不是吗？
【在 m****h 的大作中提到】
: 不承认耶稣基督是三位一体的神，最大的问题是救赎。
: 一个人只能为另一个人代罪，不能同时为众多的信徒代罪。
: 耶稣基督必须是神，才能以一代众。
| l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 13 神说能就能,基督徒说神不能，神就只能不能了
【在 G*M 的大作中提到】
: 为啥？神说能就能，不是吗？
| q****c
发帖数: 45 | 14 我也觉得三一太玄了 不敢相信十二使徒理解这个 他们可都是小学没毕业 三一神学院
博士才能讲清楚
[发表自未名空间手机版 - m.mitbbs.com] | m****r
发帖数: 1904 | 15 创世纪2：24 “所以人要离开父母，从此与妻子厮守，二人成为一体。”
这是可以从圣经得出最接近一体的“二人一体”概念。我们也知道夫妇不是二人一体。
更何况耶稣复活时说我要上去见父亲，如果一体的话，根本不这么说话。耶稣受浸的时
候耶和华，耶稣，圣灵都在，天上传来耶和华说这是我悦纳的儿子（耶稣在地上），哪
有一体的这么说话办事的？太多的例子举都举不完。很高兴你有自己独立的思考！ | l*******t
发帖数: 1016 | 16 耶证人的圣经很多都被改动
目的就是要否定三位一体
所以 你要看天主教St Joseph版本圣经
或者 KJV
道教 佛教 天主教 印度教等都支持 trinity
道教 太清 上清 玉清
佛教 法身 报身 化身
天主教 the Father the Son the Holy Spirit
人： 灵 心 体
【在 m****r 的大作中提到】
: 非常谢谢你的关心！不过我的答案一定会令你失望的。我最主要只崇拜耶和华，从来不
: 相信三位一体。
: 无论是我刚到美国初学圣经，还是现在。八年潜心研究圣经让我认识了天父，耶和华还
: 有他的儿子耶稣。我只崇拜耶和华!不过耶稣的榜样也一样令我钦佩和崇拜和效法。只
: 不过程度比父亲低一些。但是无论是三位一体还是非三位一体的概念也好，父亲是赐给
: 儿子生命的，是比子大的，本来就该受崇拜多一些。这个常识无论用在哪里都是正确的
: 。包括中国的《論語‧陽貨》朱熹的注釋為：「倫，序也。人之大倫有五：父子
: 有親，君臣有義，夫婦有別，長幼有序，朋友有信是也。」（註三）在五倫中「父子」
: 、「君臣」、「夫婦」、「長幼」的關係皆是「有序」或「有節」，表示這些關係，並
: 非是一種平
| m****r
发帖数: 1904 | 17 你说得太对了，正是异教的三合一渗透到基督教变成三位一体了。
”一体“大多指夫妻，比如创2：24，人要离开父母，二人成为一体。还有新约马太19
：6等等。
加3：28跟基督联合的都是一体的。
弗1：10使天上的和地上的都重归一体。
以上是圣经里明确说一体的。
关键是请你自己读读你的圣经上面的经文，另外在圣经里再找找哪里有“三位一体”？
【在 l*******t 的大作中提到】
: 耶证人的圣经很多都被改动
: 目的就是要否定三位一体
: 所以 你要看天主教St Joseph版本圣经
: 或者 KJV
: 道教 佛教 天主教 印度教等都支持 trinity
: 道教 太清 上清 玉清
: 佛教 法身 报身 化身
: 天主教 the Father the Son the Holy Spirit
: 人： 灵 心 体
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