B***W
发帖数: 126 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 biojailbreak 俱乐部 】
发信人: huaifans (坏粉丝), 信区: biojailbreak
标 题: Re: 生物既得利益集团使用大量廉价高学历人员
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Nov 25 13:27:28 2012, 美东)
生物最痛苦的一点就是像您这样的faculty 太多了。
首先，招人的时候百般挑剔，又要talent, 又要passion, 又低薪前途不明，就想找一
个对生物爱到发疯不要钱光干活的，跟丑女人指望高富帅失去理智看上她一样。99% 脑
子正常的人都受不了这种变态要求。是个人就萌生过转行念头。
更可恶的是，生物faculty 一旦发现人有转行念头，就如洪水猛兽一般，百般刁难打压
。即使你用自己的时间去修课，也被看作叛徒，明里暗里整死你。现在想从生物里转出
来难度不亚于从古代妓院里逃出来。
我很庆幸我逃了。现在再没人要求我对工作充满passion, 就是个工作，给钱就干活。
没钱就跳。啥子叫热爱工作？ 您开出条件来算数。
再也没人问我工作时间之外干什么去了，关你妈老板屁事啊。我就是业余搞个更有前途
的职业，我老板有啥意见？谁不想多赚钱？偏偏生物专业一堆干了一辈子找不到出路的
loser, 嫉妒心极强，见不得别人过的好一点。
It
being
music | l****b
发帖数: 400 | 2 Peasant61 号称自己是个winner，不过请别忘了，多年前的faculty标准远没有现在
的苛刻，二十年前做三年破死到在30岁左右做PI的很多，现在有几个？现在基本是CNS
的一作加一个junior faculty grant或是K grant。我见到好多不错的千老发CNS一坐加
一个子刊一坐的，面试都没几个。所以你做了tenure并不表示你多NB了，进入圈子早一
点而已。就像张伯伦时代的单场得分和乔丹时代的单场得分没法比，因为防守强度不一
样了。当然张伯伦就是现在打球尽管得分没那么多也是会很NB的，不过Peasnat61有多
牛逼就不得以而知了。他老兄号称如果当年考医生也会赚很多云云，一，你没考的话就
别吹。二，去麦地版看看当年需要考多少分能当医生，现在需要考多少分能做上。时代
不同，现在人多粥少，那个行业都面临恶劣竞争。把你放现在你还未必比大多数loser
强到哪儿了。还有一个思考上的错误，自诩什么放弃30万的年薪去搞10万年薪的生物，
所以很多千老放弃10万接受3.7万的薄厚也是可以接受的。30万和10万是差很多，不过
十万到3.7万可就是小康和贫困线的区别。你让3.7万的怎么养家糊口？
大家说生物是个烂职业是有道理的。我认识的所有从事生物学术研究的，各国人等怎么
也有上百个不止了吧，凡是调出学术界的，从医，工业界，创业等等，没有一个说留恋
搞学术的。倒是留在学术界的，50%说是很痛苦，哪怕有些就是funding不错的也说鸭梨
太大，血压升高。光冲这点，就知道这个行当的本质。就是混的不错的，说瞎掰的居多
也不为过。 | P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 3 Who do not want make more money? To answer your question: I am one of those
who do not want to make money. I gave up an opportunity of making 300K and
did a long Lao-Qian for 10% of that pay. I know quite a few Americans too
who did that. So don’t be so sure everyone is out there just to make more
money. Of course, most people do want to make more money, and there is
nothing wrong. But that’s why most people are not scientists. I think it is
a good thing that we scientists are paid low, otherwise the system would
simply select those who are interested in money rather than science. Right
now the system is forcing out those like you who are not interested in
science, and leaving in those who have passion. That’s good. But don’t say
no one has passion. Some people do.
【在 B***W 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 biojailbreak 俱乐部 】
: 发信人: huaifans (坏粉丝), 信区: biojailbreak
: 标 题: Re: 生物既得利益集团使用大量廉价高学历人员
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Nov 25 13:27:28 2012, 美东)
: 生物最痛苦的一点就是像您这样的faculty 太多了。
: 首先，招人的时候百般挑剔，又要talent, 又要passion, 又低薪前途不明，就想找一
: 个对生物爱到发疯不要钱光干活的，跟丑女人指望高富帅失去理智看上她一样。99% 脑
: 子正常的人都受不了这种变态要求。是个人就萌生过转行念头。
: 更可恶的是，生物faculty 一旦发现人有转行念头，就如洪水猛兽一般，百般刁难打压
: 。即使你用自己的时间去修课，也被看作叛徒，明里暗里整死你。现在想从生物里转出
| l****b
发帖数: 400 | 4 it really depends on whether you are doing real science or not. to me, many
well funded labs are producing craps to confuse the field, just so they can
keep getting more money and more paper. that is why people are disappointed
with science. i believe most people who chose this career were passionate
about it, but after 10 yrs or so, people started to realize the ugly side of
it and get sick of it. of course, downsides are
everywhere, not just in science. but at least other fields pay better. so
stop lecturing everyone about passion. if you make 100 k a year and say you
like science, fine. but whether you would still like it the same way if you
only make 37k/year and know that you will be like this for a long long time
is a different story. Let alone that after some time, people can lose a
crappy job like this.
lastly, to me, biology is like boiling water to a frog. one need to jump out
before it is too late. Peasant61, make sure you mention that to your
students and postdocs, instead of sugar coating with passion. and if they
still choose to stay, congratulations, you may find your dream scientist.
those
and
is
say
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: Who do not want make more money? To answer your question: I am one of those
: who do not want to make money. I gave up an opportunity of making 300K and
: did a long Lao-Qian for 10% of that pay. I know quite a few Americans too
: who did that. So don’t be so sure everyone is out there just to make more
: money. Of course, most people do want to make more money, and there is
: nothing wrong. But that’s why most people are not scientists. I think it is
: a good thing that we scientists are paid low, otherwise the system would
: simply select those who are interested in money rather than science. Right
: now the system is forcing out those like you who are not interested in
: science, and leaving in those who have passion. That’s good. But don’t say
| P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 5 生物最痛苦的一点就是像我这样的faculty 太少了。 I tell my applicant: you and
I sound like at the similar level of intelligence. I worked like a dog for
many years and barely made it. You may or may not. What is it going to be
like 8-10 years from now? No one knows. If you still want to do it, be
prepared. Otherwise, do something else. Guess what - he is still coming!
many
can
disappointed
of
you
you
time
【在 l****b 的大作中提到】
: it really depends on whether you are doing real science or not. to me, many
: well funded labs are producing craps to confuse the field, just so they can
: keep getting more money and more paper. that is why people are disappointed
: with science. i believe most people who chose this career were passionate
: about it, but after 10 yrs or so, people started to realize the ugly side of
: it and get sick of it. of course, downsides are
: everywhere, not just in science. but at least other fields pay better. so
: stop lecturing everyone about passion. if you make 100 k a year and say you
: like science, fine. but whether you would still like it the same way if you
: only make 37k/year and know that you will be like this for a long long time
| t****a
发帖数: 1212 | 6 这个坑里面的执着的人确实太多了。
and
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: 生物最痛苦的一点就是像我这样的faculty 太少了。 I tell my applicant: you and
: I sound like at the similar level of intelligence. I worked like a dog for
: many years and barely made it. You may or may not. What is it going to be
: like 8-10 years from now? No one knows. If you still want to do it, be
: prepared. Otherwise, do something else. Guess what - he is still coming!
:
: many
: can
: disappointed
: of
| t**g
发帖数: 723 | 7 转行去公司没人管业余干什么，倒是真的，你可以大谈周末又去哪里度假了，打牌打通
宵了，去上跟本行没关系的课程，公司都给报销，这点比在学校做博士后强多了。
【在 B***W 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 biojailbreak 俱乐部 】
: 发信人: huaifans (坏粉丝), 信区: biojailbreak
: 标 题: Re: 生物既得利益集团使用大量廉价高学历人员
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Sun Nov 25 13:27:28 2012, 美东)
: 生物最痛苦的一点就是像您这样的faculty 太多了。
: 首先，招人的时候百般挑剔，又要talent, 又要passion, 又低薪前途不明，就想找一
: 个对生物爱到发疯不要钱光干活的，跟丑女人指望高富帅失去理智看上她一样。99% 脑
: 子正常的人都受不了这种变态要求。是个人就萌生过转行念头。
: 更可恶的是，生物faculty 一旦发现人有转行念头，就如洪水猛兽一般，百般刁难打压
: 。即使你用自己的时间去修课，也被看作叛徒，明里暗里整死你。现在想从生物里转出
| K****n
发帖数: 5970 | 8 所以你们的观点是一样的，人家劝退你也劝退，劝剩下的继续做实验嘛。既然像你这样
先劝退的faculty太少了，那说明忽悠的faculty是绝大多数，那么我们也要理解很多对
faculty有意见的同志。
原来，大家都是自己人啊
and
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: 生物最痛苦的一点就是像我这样的faculty 太少了。 I tell my applicant: you and
: I sound like at the similar level of intelligence. I worked like a dog for
: many years and barely made it. You may or may not. What is it going to be
: like 8-10 years from now? No one knows. If you still want to do it, be
: prepared. Otherwise, do something else. Guess what - he is still coming!
:
: many
: can
: disappointed
: of
| t**g
发帖数: 723 | 9 关于30万这个工作，我没看您以前发的贴，您还得再澄清一下。
据我所知，美国这些年家庭医生收入中数也就是15-20万，从工作压力工作强度和周末
也要工作这点看，不是特别理想，尤其和我知道的大学理工科教授比(正教授15-25万，
福利很好，公立学校更是铁饭碗，每年4周带薪假期，而且没有什么人去监督记录教授
们的考勤)。当然您可以说AP开始还不到10万，那是真的，但医生也不可能上来就拿10
几万30万啊，还有前面住院医那几年呢，比博后多不了太多吧。所以您说放弃30万去干
10万的工作，我觉得有点问题，您不能拿医生干到最高时候的收入和AP比。当然如果您
当年放弃的是主刀医生，干了AP，算我没说，但是主刀医生可不是考个board match一
下那么简单。
those
and
is
say
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: Who do not want make more money? To answer your question: I am one of those
: who do not want to make money. I gave up an opportunity of making 300K and
: did a long Lao-Qian for 10% of that pay. I know quite a few Americans too
: who did that. So don’t be so sure everyone is out there just to make more
: money. Of course, most people do want to make more money, and there is
: nothing wrong. But that’s why most people are not scientists. I think it is
: a good thing that we scientists are paid low, otherwise the system would
: simply select those who are interested in money rather than science. Right
: now the system is forcing out those like you who are not interested in
: science, and leaving in those who have passion. That’s good. But don’t say
| P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 10 When I decided to go for science, I had no idea that I would make it to a PI
. That's something that happened later. Who can say "i will be a PI several
years from now"? I looked at board test and it seemed very easy to me. So I
took a big risk. I was making 30K for along time, wo knowing what would
happen later. I'm not saying everyone should be like that, but I am simply
making a point that not everyone in biology is trying to make money. Of
course, you may consider me stupid for jumping into something that i had no
idea on the financial return. That's OK. I do not consider myself smart
anyway. I'm simply passionate about my choice.
10
【在 t**g 的大作中提到】
: 关于30万这个工作，我没看您以前发的贴，您还得再澄清一下。
: 据我所知，美国这些年家庭医生收入中数也就是15-20万，从工作压力工作强度和周末
: 也要工作这点看，不是特别理想，尤其和我知道的大学理工科教授比(正教授15-25万，
: 福利很好，公立学校更是铁饭碗，每年4周带薪假期，而且没有什么人去监督记录教授
: 们的考勤)。当然您可以说AP开始还不到10万，那是真的，但医生也不可能上来就拿10
: 几万30万啊，还有前面住院医那几年呢，比博后多不了太多吧。所以您说放弃30万去干
: 10万的工作，我觉得有点问题，您不能拿医生干到最高时候的收入和AP比。当然如果您
: 当年放弃的是主刀医生，干了AP，算我没说，但是主刀医生可不是考个board match一
: 下那么简单。
:
| | | l****b
发帖数: 400 | 11 The board tests look very easy to you? even chief of medicine wouldn't say
so because it always tests the newest concepts and cover a broad spectrum of
topics. it is easy to pass but not easy to excel. why didn't you just take
the tests and get the license? doing research with a board certificate will
make grant application easier, wouldn't you say so?
I think instead of taking a risk, you rather chose the easy route (
relatively speaking), at least at your time. most chinese would need
research to get green card anyways, and you chose to stay in the field.
there is nothing wrong about it, but nothing to brag about.
PI
several
I
no
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: When I decided to go for science, I had no idea that I would make it to a PI
: . That's something that happened later. Who can say "i will be a PI several
: years from now"? I looked at board test and it seemed very easy to me. So I
: took a big risk. I was making 30K for along time, wo knowing what would
: happen later. I'm not saying everyone should be like that, but I am simply
: making a point that not everyone in biology is trying to make money. Of
: course, you may consider me stupid for jumping into something that i had no
: idea on the financial return. That's OK. I do not consider myself smart
: anyway. I'm simply passionate about my choice.
:
| a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 12 Agree. USMLE exams are not jokes.
of
will
【在 l****b 的大作中提到】
: The board tests look very easy to you? even chief of medicine wouldn't say
: so because it always tests the newest concepts and cover a broad spectrum of
: topics. it is easy to pass but not easy to excel. why didn't you just take
: the tests and get the license? doing research with a board certificate will
: make grant application easier, wouldn't you say so?
: I think instead of taking a risk, you rather chose the easy route (
: relatively speaking), at least at your time. most chinese would need
: research to get green card anyways, and you chose to stay in the field.
: there is nothing wrong about it, but nothing to brag about.
:
| P***P
发帖数: 1387 | 13 那个faculty还能再贱一点吗？好歹要有个md, phd头衔，考了board执照， 贴上30万刀
年薪的offer letter再来吹放弃了自己30万年薪的工作。 人至贱则无敌, 果然说得不
错，中国人的脸都被这种人丢光了。 | G********e
发帖数: 528 | 14 I can tell you're lying, misleading or BLOWING BULL by saying the board test
is very easy to you. For some particular tests in biochemistry, they might
be easy for you. Or you should have said, when you looked at the test, you
believed you could pass it easily. But when you said your own words, you
certainly mislead people to think you were outstanding in all the fields. Do
you know HANHAN? You and he have something in common.
If you're still doing science now, I'm almost certain you are doing the same
thing in your paper, presentations and results. “本性难移”. You just
simply can not tell people the truth. It is very likely you usually
overinterpreting your own results. Being a PI is not a success at all, being
a good scientist is the goal for you now.
PI
several
I
no
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: When I decided to go for science, I had no idea that I would make it to a PI
: . That's something that happened later. Who can say "i will be a PI several
: years from now"? I looked at board test and it seemed very easy to me. So I
: took a big risk. I was making 30K for along time, wo knowing what would
: happen later. I'm not saying everyone should be like that, but I am simply
: making a point that not everyone in biology is trying to make money. Of
: course, you may consider me stupid for jumping into something that i had no
: idea on the financial return. That's OK. I do not consider myself smart
: anyway. I'm simply passionate about my choice.
:
| d*****n
发帖数: 53 | 15 那个faculty还能再贱一点吗？ agree!
【在 P***P 的大作中提到】
: 那个faculty还能再贱一点吗？好歹要有个md, phd头衔，考了board执照， 贴上30万刀
: 年薪的offer letter再来吹放弃了自己30万年薪的工作。 人至贱则无敌, 果然说得不
: 错，中国人的脸都被这种人丢光了。
| c**********e
发帖数: 230 | 16 插一句嘴, 这个PI是不是有这么个逻辑: 他曾经过得跟狗一样, 他就希望他招的人也做
他的一条狗? | j********h
发帖数: 40 | 17 board并不简单，但是大多数人都可以通过的。我周围许多从中国来的朋友，无论是top
的医学院出来的，还是一堆那些我在中国都闻所未闻的医学院出来的，只要用心努力去
考，很少有match不上的。这两年听说困难了点，但是外国考生据说match成功率还是接
近50%。相比tenure track AP的申请成功率，无论是top学校还是一般学校，说board简
单并没有什么问题。
test
might
Do
same
being
【在 G********e 的大作中提到】
: I can tell you're lying, misleading or BLOWING BULL by saying the board test
: is very easy to you. For some particular tests in biochemistry, they might
: be easy for you. Or you should have said, when you looked at the test, you
: believed you could pass it easily. But when you said your own words, you
: certainly mislead people to think you were outstanding in all the fields. Do
: you know HANHAN? You and he have something in common.
: If you're still doing science now, I'm almost certain you are doing the same
: thing in your paper, presentations and results. “本性难移”. You just
: simply can not tell people the truth. It is very likely you usually
: overinterpreting your own results. Being a PI is not a success at all, being
| P***P
发帖数: 1387 | 18 问题是那个pi连医学院也没进过。
tenure track AP通过率也要看什么时候的通过率。
top
【在 j********h 的大作中提到】
: board并不简单，但是大多数人都可以通过的。我周围许多从中国来的朋友，无论是top
: 的医学院出来的，还是一堆那些我在中国都闻所未闻的医学院出来的，只要用心努力去
: 考，很少有match不上的。这两年听说困难了点，但是外国考生据说match成功率还是接
: 近50%。相比tenure track AP的申请成功率，无论是top学校还是一般学校，说board简
: 单并没有什么问题。
:
: test
: might
: Do
: same
|
|
