h******n
发帖数: 28 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Military 讨论区 】
发信人: hydraman (较大城市), 信区: Military
标 题: 看看挪威消息灵通人士怎么看待刘晓波获奖的
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Oct 11 09:27:31 2010, 美东)
> Date: Mon, 11 Oct 2010 12:44:58 +0200
> To:
> From: rolf melheim
> Subject: For Your information
>
> Some updated background information on a former mail:
>
> I wrote a few days ago about the reationship
> between NED, "human rights violations" and Liu
> Xiaobo.
> Ralph McGehee also wrote: "... the current US
> policy of using (rightly or wrongly) the theme of
> human rights violations to alter or overthrow
> non-US-favored governments. In those countries
> emerging from the once Soviet Bloc that is
> forming new governmental systems; or where
> emerging or Third World governments resist US
> influence or control, the US uses 'human rights
> violations,' as an excuse for political action
> operations. 'Human Rights' replaces 'Communist
> Conspiracy' as the justification for overthrowing
> governments."
>
>
> Conclusion: Since Liu Xiaobo has been paid by NED
> and obviously, willingly or unwillingly, is an
> American agent who works to harm the Chinese
> government and China, the The Nobel Peace Prize
> Committee, since they have known about his
> payments from NED, comes in a bad light.
>
> The committee is elected by the dominating
> political factions of Norway, the political elite
> so to say, which is the Labour Party or social
> democratic party (which is soft anti-communist)
> and Høyre (Right) or the conservative party
> (which is strongly anti-communist; but also
> impressed by Chinas economic development).
>
> The leader of the committee is Mr. Torbjørn
> Jagland, who is a former Norwegian prime minister
> (!) for Labour (!). He is a right-wing social
> democrat with strong anti-communist attitudes.
> (He is also quite clumsy). Mr. Jagland is,
> believe it or not, Secretary General of the
> Council of Europe. His "neutrality" can easily be
> seen on his web pages
> http://www.coe.int/T/SECRETARYGENERAL/SG/
>
> Any American relationship?
>
> There may have been contacts in this case between
> U.S. labor federation and/or their AFL-CIO's
> "Solidarity Center" and some leaders of the
> Norwegian Labour Party. I don't know much about
> this, but Norwegian Labour Party has always paid
> attention to international contacts, which
> includes contacts with AFL-CIO and of course the
> American Democratic Party. Such "labour contacts"
> may explain why the committee, under the
> leadership of the former Norwegian Labour prime
> minister Mr. Torbjørn Jagland, as a total
> surprise, gave the Nobel Peace Prize 2009 to the
> Democrat Barack Obama.
>
> Jon Quaccia writes this about the relationship
> between the AFL-CIO's "Solidarity Center" and the
> NED: "The NED works through multiple
> constituencies: The International Republican
> Institute, The National Democratic Institute for
> International Affairs, the Center for
> International Private Enterprise, the Free Trade
> Union Institute, and American Center for
> International Labor Solidarity (ACILS), better
> known as the Solidarity Center. ... The AFL-CIO
> Solidarity Center's predecessor, the American
> Institute for Free Labor Development (AIFLD), was
> one of the four government-funded labor
> institutes created during the cold war to prevent
> foreign countries from establishing independent
> economic systems."
> http://www.iefd.org/articles/for_death_squads.php
>
> To me it seems that the members of the committee
> does not know much about China. Actually I have
> the feeling that the leader of the Norwegian
> Nobel committee Mr. Torbjørn Jagland and the
> director of the Norwegian Nobel Institute Mr.
> Geir Lundestad are not up their responsibility.
> From what they have done and said for years one
> can easily understand that the committee is very
> pro US and very pro EU, and not neutral.
>
> The situation in Norway at the moment is a tense.
> Norway has succeeded greatly, because of hard
> work by the Norwegian Ministry of Trade and
> Industry and good Chinese negotiators, to
> increase trade between the two countries
> remarkably. At the moment on behalf of the
> Labour-Left-Green government only the Foreign
> minister Mr. Jonas Gahr Støre (Labour), is
> allowed to answer questions on Norway and China
> relations.
>
> What should be done: The Norwegian parliament
> should now remove Jagland as a leader of the
> committee and Lundestad from his position as
> director of the institute because of their bias
> and incompetence. The Nobel Peace Prize ceremony
> in December should not be paid attention to. | h******n
发帖数: 28 | 2 原文是用挪威语写的，我用google translator翻译的
楼上那篇是用来解释这篇的
在这篇中，我最喜欢最后一段话
> From: @ rolf melheim
> Subject: Hello
Can you pass on to interested parties? Regards Rolf
Article newspapers to Bergen from Jan Erik Willgohs:
Should we congratulate each other with this year's Nobel Peace Prize? No, I
do not believe it!
I see few, if any, potential positive impacts of this year's awards. The
effects will also be the reversal of many ongoing good processes and
setbacks for those looking for relaxation of and in the Chinese society. I
find Jagland / Lundestad as loose cannons, which they know this and foolish
statements that the price is not political and do not take political
considerations. How naive is it possible to be? At best it is naive and
unthinking. Alternatively, conducted a large intimidating and cynical
political game. Destabilitet in China is not a good thought and politics is
nothing beautiful sight. The Nobel Committee is tryggt in Norway and basks
in the feeling that they are doing something great for human rights and that
they promote our perception of freedom and good governance. They even at no
risk and disclaims responsibility for the consequences of the price can get
involved on all sides.
This year's award will create a distance to China - and the Chinese people.
Chinese authorities will probably now put obstacles for Norwegian interests
in China, with its large economic losses and less opportunity to impact and
influence in China's future development. More serious is that the man in the
street will be hostile set to Norway and Norwegians, because the price is
seen as a very unfriendly act directed against China. Most Chinese people
and Chinese authorities do not distinguish fact from the Nobel Committee,
our government and the Norwegian people. A charge by calling itself a
democracy and have an elected parliament which selects the Nobel committee?
The Chinese also know his history of the Opium War and its humiliating
invasion and destruction by British, French and American forces, and other
Western imperialism. And this amount will be remembered.
It is completely wrong, that the Nobel Committee claims that human rights
and democracy are highest on the average Chinese Sers agenda and wish list.
What primarily matters is improved family economy and better opportunities
in the community, and here deliver the system they have. The present Chinese
policy has an almost miraculously brought hundreds of millions of people
out of poverty.
In all my travels, experiences and stay in China, I see a lot that does not
match the presentations in the western press. Unfortunately. Is it known in
Norway that today is the Chinese government that pays and manages the
Tibetan monasteries, in that the feudal slave system that was the economic
foundation for klostrervesenet before 1950, now is gone? Is it known that
China's minorities never in China's long history have had better living
conditions than today? That they need a lower score to get into the major
universities, that they have lower taxes, can receive up to 3 children and
several other benefits many among the Han majority envy them? In most
minorities are grown Mao today, because he gave them the dignity of the
Chinese society. Before Mao, they had no rights. Western media reports about
the suppression of religion in China today. This is wrong propaganda. I see
all kinds of religious practice everywhere, including in Tibet, without any
hindrance. Falun Gong is banned because they interfere ostentatiously into
politics and is controlled from the United States.
China is not a democracy by Western standards, something which appears that
the perceived destabilization will come down hard. But this is not a
democracy, the Nobel Prize award. Is it peace you want to reward the Chinese
government should have been nominated for his work to ensure the country's
mind-boggling 1.4 billion inhabitants better life, food security, literacy,
employment, stability and progress. Lundestad suggested recently the EU on
the same basis. What is the difference? If one believes China is occupying
Tibet, what is the EU, we and the United States in Afghanistan? It may be
mentioned in this context that the United States and Obama last year won the
award regardless of the war (and the U.S. have concentration camps and
death penalty).
Why have not incidentally Mordechai Vanunu in Israel, received the prize?
The price here would be much closer, more oppressive and up to date. To
clean up our own backyard western, yes THAT would be brave. Vanunu might
have a similar kind of role that Liu, in Israeli society. The community
calls itself democracy (!), But is a far more racist, aggressive and violent
than today's Chinese.
Jan Erik Willgohs | v******s
发帖数: 272 | 3 好，发奖的国家都要后悔了，其他人好吵吵什么？
【在 h******n 的大作中提到】
: 原文是用挪威语写的，我用google translator翻译的
: 楼上那篇是用来解释这篇的
: 在这篇中，我最喜欢最后一段话
: > From: @ rolf melheim
: > Subject: Hello
: Can you pass on to interested parties? Regards Rolf
: Article newspapers to Bergen from Jan Erik Willgohs:
: Should we congratulate each other with this year's Nobel Peace Prize? No, I
: do not believe it!
: I see few, if any, potential positive impacts of this year's awards. The
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