.NET 何去何从 - DotNet版

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DotNet版 - .NET 何去何从

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(共1页)

B********t
发帖数: 1321

我们组的Silverlight网站，头决定用Java Spring MVC完全重做，因为
微软今后不会对Silverliht继续升级了。
这一两年，微软的脑残决定可不少啊。看看这篇评论：
http://www.i-programmer.info/professional-programmer/i-programm

r****y
发帖数: 26819

NeverLearn会给你定心的。

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 我们组的Silverlight网站，头决定用Java Spring MVC完全重做，因为
: 微软今后不会对Silverliht继续升级了。
: 这一两年，微软的脑残决定可不少啊。看看这篇评论：
: http://www.i-programmer.info/professional-programmer/i-programm

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

History repeats itself. This is exactly what I predicated a few years ago.
“
After all it's not the first time that Microsoft has dumped developers to
bring in something that might or might not be better - see Visual Basic 6
for example. Microsoft tends not to come out in the open and say that a
technology is dead instead it tends to simply ignore it and allow it to
wither.”

L******e
发帖数: 136

真的很可惜。我是用Silverilght做前端的，Silverilght强大的UI功能是我认为其他语
言平台难以媲美的。HTML5和Javascript即使能做类似的东西也要花很大力气才能达到
的。看样子微软除了政治就没剩下什么了。

N********n
发帖数: 8363

这个iProgrammer是个一窍不通的大嘴巴，只有.Net外行才跟着起哄。现
在.Net从手机到平板到AZURE一路通吃，左右逢源，你咋还在"何去何从"？
Win8上面那些FAST & FLUID用户体验就是要靠.Net支持才做出来的。虽然
SL不做PLUGIN了但SL加XAML模式已经是METRO上的DEFAULT MODEL了。
给你几个BUILD 2012上的官方REFERENCE吧，别再让大嘴巴忽悠。
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-005
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-016
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-011

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

L******e
发帖数: 136

可是Win8和WinRT都卖得很糟，去店里试过感觉就是个高级的Prototype，就连WPF做得
Word界面都有明显的UI Defect。。。都希望微软争点气，现在出去说自己是.NET
developer 都被Java，C++　甚至RUBy　Developer看扁了。
其实也不用争，前两天首页上还有一个做算法的自学一年转Java　Senior　Developer
的。做软件用什么工具其实都搞得出来，但是并不是谁都适合做。对于有经验头脑又够
用的人来说，甚至没有经验头脑又够用的人来说，每年学一个新语言基本是做软工的基
本功，这话不是我说的，是我在一本讲如何做一个优秀开发者的书上看到的。更何况就
连早就被唱衰的Silverilght到现在还有些公司在用，更不用说WPF了。没必要担心。如
果公司从Silverilght转到Java，对程序员只能是个好事，多学一种不更好吗？省得自
己花时间花钱去补课了。
很多人看到软工比其他工种相对轻松，工资也不低，工作又好找，找机会就攻击软工，
其实挺不实际的。适合做的早晚都能做，不适合做的给个机会也挺痛苦的。我是说真正
担责任做项目的。扯远了。
总之，大家探讨下各种技术的前途是个不错的事，但是把工作和该做的功课做到了也不
必担心这个那个潮流的。软工做好了到老也是个宝贝，不是说完全青春饭的。

B********t
发帖数: 1321

说的很对。
我也算是老码工了，用微软技术也有10年以上了。这几年微软真是江河日下。这次公司
转向对我确实是个好机会，只是很可惜微软的所作所为，让我为.NET所做的任何辩解都
显得苍白无力。

Developer

【在 L******e 的大作中提到】

: 可是Win8和WinRT都卖得很糟，去店里试过感觉就是个高级的Prototype，就连WPF做得
: Word界面都有明显的UI Defect。。。都希望微软争点气，现在出去说自己是.NET
: developer 都被Java，C++　甚至RUBy　Developer看扁了。
: 其实也不用争，前两天首页上还有一个做算法的自学一年转Java　Senior　Developer
: 的。做软件用什么工具其实都搞得出来，但是并不是谁都适合做。对于有经验头脑又够
: 用的人来说，甚至没有经验头脑又够用的人来说，每年学一个新语言基本是做软工的基
: 本功，这话不是我说的，是我在一本讲如何做一个优秀开发者的书上看到的。更何况就
: 连早就被唱衰的Silverilght到现在还有些公司在用，更不用说WPF了。没必要担心。如
: 果公司从Silverilght转到Java，对程序员只能是个好事，多学一种不更好吗？省得自
: 己花时间花钱去补课了。

B********t
发帖数: 1321

外行？我从2004就开始应用.NET做开发了。
且不说Win8今后在企业的应用普及程度，就你说的Metro开发模式而言，“但SL加XAML
模式已经是METRO上的DEFAULT MODEL了”恐怕是你的一厢情愿吧。Win8上面3种模式：
1. Javascript + Html5
2. C++
3. .NET
什么时候微软把.NET定位成Default model了？
微软把Silverlight像扔垃圾一样扔掉的同时，知不知道这样惹恼了多少企业技术决策
者？这不是像VB6一样以后还可以使用的技术，未来的IE压根就不支持Silverlight。企
业的投资是儿童过家家玩游戏吗？
微软最痛恨.NET的人卷铺盖走人了，你不妨Google一下Steven Sinofsky对.NET的贡献：
http://www.zdnet.com/for-windows-developers-sinofskys-legacy-is

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: 这个iProgrammer是个一窍不通的大嘴巴，只有.Net外行才跟着起哄。现
: 在.Net从手机到平板到AZURE一路通吃，左右逢源，你咋还在"何去何从"？
: Win8上面那些FAST & FLUID用户体验就是要靠.Net支持才做出来的。虽然
: SL不做PLUGIN了但SL加XAML模式已经是METRO上的DEFAULT MODEL了。
: 给你几个BUILD 2012上的官方REFERENCE吧，别再让大嘴巴忽悠。
: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-005
: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-016
: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/2012/3-011

L******e
发帖数: 136

。NET,C#，WPF,Silverlight绝对是很好的技术，VisualStudio是最好的IDE，这些微软
做得都不错，但是任何一个公司都会有这么一天，这没什么。
公司最大的财富不是技术而是人，人最大的价值不是技术而是头脑，软件最大的价值不
是技术而是它解决问题的效率。
软工之所以被有些自认清高的人看不起，是因为自己把自己放在技术里。当然这也有情
可缘，一天到晚学新东西可不就是技术至上吗？所以我们经常忘记软件是要解决问题的
，如何最好的解决问题，甚至解决什么问题，最大化的利用可用的技术及资源，这个才
是软工的价值。

N********n
发帖数: 8363

WIN8你还不了解，所以听信IPROGRAMMER的。JS + HTML在WIN8上是个摆设，
就象VB.Net一样，说是支持其实没人用。更何况HTML/JS无法写WP程序，所
以更冷门了。写METRO程序还是.Net，从RT到WP同源的BASE来回转很方便。
C++虽然也支持但是主要用途是为那些游戏程序提供DIRECTX接口。
你要是仔细观察非游戏C++的METRO程序，就会发现实际上用的是类MANAGED
C++的语法。这是一种为了使用.Net 4.5的ASYNC支持而特制的扩展C++。骨
子里还是.Net。

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 外行？我从2004就开始应用.NET做开发了。
: 且不说Win8今后在企业的应用普及程度，就你说的Metro开发模式而言，“但SL加XAML
: 模式已经是METRO上的DEFAULT MODEL了”恐怕是你的一厢情愿吧。Win8上面3种模式：
: 1. Javascript + Html5
: 2. C++
: 3. .NET
: 什么时候微软把.NET定位成Default model了？
: 微软把Silverlight像扔垃圾一样扔掉的同时，知不知道这样惹恼了多少企业技术决策
: 者？这不是像VB6一样以后还可以使用的技术，未来的IE压根就不支持Silverlight。企
: 业的投资是儿童过家家玩游戏吗？

相关主题
● 请教这样的小系统怎么做	● Silverlight vs HTML5 War
● SilverLight 3 is ready	● 微软渐弃Silverlight
● SilverLight好象没啥意思	● 网页制作的最高境界
进入DotNet版参与讨论

r*******n
发帖数: 3020

微软到底还支持silvelight吗？

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: WIN8你还不了解，所以听信IPROGRAMMER的。JS + HTML在WIN8上是个摆设，
: 就象VB.Net一样，说是支持其实没人用。更何况HTML/JS无法写WP程序，所
: 以更冷门了。写METRO程序还是.Net，从RT到WP同源的BASE来回转很方便。
: C++虽然也支持但是主要用途是为那些游戏程序提供DIRECTX接口。
: 你要是仔细观察非游戏C++的METRO程序，就会发现实际上用的是类MANAGED
: C++的语法。这是一种为了使用.Net 4.5的ASYNC支持而特制的扩展C++。骨
: 子里还是.Net。

d********u
发帖数: 5383

VISTA出来的时候一帮人也是哈哈大笑，嘲笑VISTA烂，肯定卖不好，个人和企业都不会
用，LINUX要一统江湖，MS要挂了，布拉布拉布拉。。。
结果大家也看到了。VISTA那么烂都秒了其他所有的OS。LINUX最搞笑，2000年就要在
DESKTOP上革MS的命，现在可好，要靠小数点后2位才能勉强苟延残喘地保持不是0,
SERVER端被蚕食地七零八落。
PUSSY就是这样，不管别人做了什么，它们就等着看笑话。自己什么也做不出来。反正
是装逼，它们都不用装。
顺便问一句，WPF还活着不？

Developer

【在 L******e 的大作中提到】

m*******l
发帖数: 12782

no

【在 r*******n 的大作中提到】

: 微软到底还支持silvelight吗？

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

desktop的非游戏应用确是.net的天下。问题是PC出货量都在下降。传统的desktop应用
更是在web跟mobile两面夹攻底下找不着北。皮之不存毛将焉附。.NET唯一还没沦陷的就
是在中小型企业应用里跟PHP竞争。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

d***q
发帖数: 1119

siliverlight 和 spring感觉没啥关系。

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

B********t
发帖数: 1321

没有太大关系。整个网站要重做了，在ASP.NET MVC 和 Spring MVC 之间，头投票
Spring。

【在 d***q 的大作中提到】

:
: siliverlight 和 spring感觉没啥关系。

B********t
发帖数: 1321

呵呵。你很乐观，可惜WinRT不是.NET，当然，没人否认.NET在win8的地位，.NET只是
众多可用技术之一而已：
http://community.devexpress.com/blogs/seth/archive/2011/09/23/w
看这一段：
http://www.zdnet.com/for-windows-developers-sinofskys-legacy-is
When designing the new APIs for the new platform, Microsoft -- well,
Sinofsky -- had two options. Base it on .NET or do something different. He
should have based the new platform on .NET -- but for various reasons he
chose to reboot the entire developer story on WinRT. The most likely reason
is that .NET was blamed in part for the failure of Vista. When you're
running the Windows team, the last thing you want is "another Vista".
Sinofsky's decision to base the new developer story on an untried and closed
technology is not only risky, but it obviously fragments the Microsoft
developer platform story along two axis.
On the first axis, it's not .NET. Sure, you can use .NET to build Windows
Store apps, but it's just a baseline technology within a much larger stack.
Generally developers find working on Windows Store apps hard. (I've been
working on .NET since before it was released. Trust me -- it's much more
difficult to build apps with WinRT.) At its core, WinRT is not .NET -- it's
more like the APIs used for building Windows and megalithic applications
like Office and PhotoShop than the more easy going and forgiving experience
that .NET provides. (DevDiv designed .NET to be easy, and so it's easy and a
bit slow. WinDiv -- Sinofsky's team -- designed WinRT to be fast, and so it
's fast, but hard to develop for. In fact, it's not even very fast when you
actually try and use it.)
And on the second axis we have the problem that WinRT and Windows Store apps
are fundamentally closed. In this instance, the WinDiv team are both out of
kilter with their own developers (Microsoft's engineers want to be more
open) and with the community at large.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

This is 2nd time you cited dubious posts as credible sources. Here
are some posts straight from Win8 OFFICIAL blog explaining how they
utilized .Net 4.5 Async features to write fast & fluid RT Apps.
Metro RT apps would not be possible w/o .Net Async support.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsappdev/archive/2012/06/14/exposi
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsappdev/archive/2012/03/20/keepin
Pay special attention to the C++ examples. They are managed C++
code for a reason. You should read more from the official guides
rather than the iProgrammer or zdnet rants.

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 呵呵。你很乐观，可惜WinRT不是.NET，当然，没人否认.NET在win8的地位，.NET只是
: 众多可用技术之一而已：
: http://community.devexpress.com/blogs/seth/archive/2011/09/23/w
: 看这一段：
: http://www.zdnet.com/for-windows-developers-sinofskys-legacy-is
: When designing the new APIs for the new platform, Microsoft -- well,
: Sinofsky -- had two options. Base it on .NET or do something different. He
: should have based the new platform on .NET -- but for various reasons he
: chose to reboot the entire developer story on WinRT. The most likely reason
: is that .NET was blamed in part for the failure of Vista. When you're

s***o
发帖数: 2191

包括 Windows -> Linux? 那这跨度可是够大的

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 没有太大关系。整个网站要重做了，在ASP.NET MVC 和 Spring MVC 之间，头投票
: Spring。

B********t
发帖数: 1321

还好。Backend本身就是Java做的。
何况ASP.NET MVC和Spring MVC 差别并不太大。都是JQuery，HTML/CSS那一套。

【在 s***o 的大作中提到】

: 包括 Windows -> Linux? 那这跨度可是够大的

相关主题
● c# 用code 做的chart太丑了，大家用什么插件来让它变fancy点。	● Surface 4 WinRT tablet coming October 26th
● Free Video Training: ASP.NET MVC 3 Features	● HTML5 geolocation with Bing Maps
● Webforms vs. MVC	● What is HTML5
进入DotNet版参与讨论

B********t
发帖数: 1321

这个够权威吧？WinRT的开发从架构层面讲的足够清楚了。
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/BUILD2011/PLAT-874T
我跟你一样都不希望微软把.net的地位贬的很低，这本身是和Java的Spring Framework
相媲美的企业级开发平台。Steven Sinofsky对于.NET的厌恶，对于我们开发者来说就
是噩梦。他现在被赶走了，希望情况能有所改观了。其实不仅仅是Silverlight/WPF，
WP7的开发者也肯定是充满了郁闷。从系统架构的角度来说，我们也不能把自己仅仅局
限于微软的技术平台，尤其是微软近年来变得越来越不靠谱的情况下。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: This is 2nd time you cited dubious posts as credible sources. Here
: are some posts straight from Win8 OFFICIAL blog explaining how they
: utilized .Net 4.5 Async features to write fast & fluid RT Apps.
: Metro RT apps would not be possible w/o .Net Async support.
: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsappdev/archive/2012/06/14/exposi
: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsappdev/archive/2012/03/20/keepin
: Pay special attention to the C++ examples. They are managed C++
: code for a reason. You should read more from the official guides
: rather than the iProgrammer or zdnet rants.

B********t
发帖数: 1321

不想争论了，看看这个总够权威吧？
http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/BUILD2011/PLAT-874T

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

r****y
发帖数: 26819

好奇问一句，这里不是列出了javascript做fast and fluid的例子，为什么你前面说只
有.NET能做？对WinRT来说，有什么功能是.NET可以完成而javascript做不到的吗？
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh700330.a
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsappdev/archive/2012/03/20/keepin
nd-fluid-with-asynchrony-in-the-windows-runtime.aspx

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

The relationship b/t RT and .Net is like the one b/t Android and
a full blown JRE. It's that simple.
SS was not big enough to "贬低.net的地位". I can see .Net code all
over the place inside the latest Office, Azure, etc. Those are
the MSFT franchise products. This idea that "微软贬低.net" should
be laughed off instantly. Those iProgrammer and zd folks don't
know what they are talking about.

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 这个够权威吧？WinRT的开发从架构层面讲的足够清楚了。
: http://channel9.msdn.com/Events/Build/BUILD2011/PLAT-874T
: 我跟你一样都不希望微软把.net的地位贬的很低，这本身是和Java的Spring Framework
: 相媲美的企业级开发平台。Steven Sinofsky对于.NET的厌恶，对于我们开发者来说就
: 是噩梦。他现在被赶走了，希望情况能有所改观了。其实不仅仅是Silverlight/WPF，
: WP7的开发者也肯定是充满了郁闷。从系统架构的角度来说，我们也不能把自己仅仅局
: 限于微软的技术平台，尤其是微软近年来变得越来越不靠谱的情况下。

N********n
发帖数: 8363

RT is like a special version of .Net runtime with JS interfaces to
attract some JS developers to the RT platform although I doubt any
will come.
Apps written in C# / C++ can be ported back and forth b/t WP8 and
WinRT easily. You cannot do it w/ JS as it's not supported on WP8.

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 好奇问一句，这里不是列出了javascript做fast and fluid的例子，为什么你前面说只
: 有.NET能做？对WinRT来说，有什么功能是.NET可以完成而javascript做不到的吗？
: http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/apps/hh700330.a
: http://blogs.msdn.com/b/windowsappdev/archive/2012/03/20/keepin
: nd-fluid-with-asynchrony-in-the-windows-runtime.aspx

r****y
发帖数: 26819

也就是说，javascript在winRT上跟C++/C#功能并没有什么不同，c++和C#能做的app，
js一样可以做，包括fast and fluid对吧？
另外有一点需要澄清的是，不是WP8不支持JS，也不是WP8不支持用html5/CSS/javascri
pt为WP8开发app，而是不能为WP8开发WinJS应用程序，也就是不能写Win8风格的JS程序。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: RT is like a special version of .Net runtime with JS interfaces to
: attract some JS developers to the RT platform although I doubt any
: will come.
: Apps written in C# / C++ can be ported back and forth b/t WP8 and
: WinRT easily. You cannot do it w/ JS as it's not supported on WP8.

B********t
发帖数: 1321

从你这段评论可以看出，你对WinRT的认识相当的肤浅和错误。作为Windows Developer
，你不会没开发过Win32 COM程序吧？看看WinRT的定义吧：
WinRT is essentially a COM-based API, although relying on an enhanced COM.
Due to its COM-like basis, WinRT allows interfacing from multiple languages,
just as COM does, but it's essentially an unmanaged, native API.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

.Net itself is a wrapper around the COM / COM+ objects. It's been
that way from day one. RT is of the same model with a pure focus
on mobile GUI. Those guys who said MSFT dumped .Net simply didn't
understand it.
RT didn't reuse the existing .Net b/c 1) RT UI is touch-based so
it cannot use the existing .Net desktop GUI; 2) RT apps are pure
GUI apps so it does not need the full .Net framework; 3) RT apps
have to be responsive so it needs a faster set of wrappers than
the current .Net ones to interact with the COM objects.
This is why they used SL/XAML model to build a different runtime.
It's still a .Net model but tuned for the mobile environment.

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 从你这段评论可以看出，你对WinRT的认识相当的肤浅和错误。作为Windows Developer
: ，你不会没开发过Win32 COM程序吧？看看WinRT的定义吧：
: WinRT is essentially a COM-based API, although relying on an enhanced COM.
: Due to its COM-like basis, WinRT allows interfacing from multiple languages,
: just as COM does, but it's essentially an unmanaged, native API.

r****y
发帖数: 26819

“used SL/XAML model to build a different runtime”是什么意思？runtime只有一
个WinRT，不是用SL/XAML做出来的。
WinRT有三个编程方式，一等首选是Native c++，其次是.NET语言和WinRT的XAML frame
work，其次是JS。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: .Net itself is a wrapper around the COM / COM+ objects. It's been
: that way from day one. RT is of the same model with a pure focus
: on mobile GUI. Those guys who said MSFT dumped .Net simply didn't
: understand it.
: RT didn't reuse the existing .Net b/c 1) RT UI is touch-based so
: it cannot use the existing .Net desktop GUI; 2) RT apps are pure
: GUI apps so it does not need the full .Net framework; 3) RT apps
: have to be responsive so it needs a faster set of wrappers than
: the current .Net ones to interact with the COM objects.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

C++ RT apps use XAML as well. It's the same XAML model used by WPF
and SL with a C++ interface.
BTW it's not native C++. It's a variation of managed C++. Notice
the 'ref new' and '^' operators in the C++ sample code. They are
not standard C++ but extended VC++ for RT.

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: “used SL/XAML model to build a different runtime”是什么意思？runtime只有一
: 个WinRT，不是用SL/XAML做出来的。
: WinRT有三个编程方式，一等首选是Native c++，其次是.NET语言和WinRT的XAML frame
: work，其次是JS。

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● SilverLight现在发展怎么样，新项目用SilverLight合适吗	● share: 10 skills for developers to focus on in 2013
进入DotNet版参与讨论

B********t
发帖数: 1321

看一下下面链接里的第二幅图吧。
http://dougseven.com/2011/09/15/a-bad-picture-is-worth-a-thousa
在传统Desktop里面，CLR一切如故。在Merto环境下，CLR是位于WinRT之上的。如果不
能接受在Win8环境下，.NET客户端开发被严重弱化的事实，就纯属掩耳盗铃了。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: C++ RT apps use XAML as well. It's the same XAML model used by WPF
: and SL with a C++ interface.
: BTW it's not native C++. It's a variation of managed C++. Notice
: the 'ref new' and '^' operators in the C++ sample code. They are
: not standard C++ but extended VC++ for RT.

r****y
发帖数: 26819

XAML不是必需，对C++/CLI和.NET语言来说都是可选。
C++/CLI主要还是单独的语言。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

s******e
发帖数: 114

>在传统Desktop里面，CLR一切如故。在Merto环境下，CLR是位于WinRT之上的
不懂这个，
desktop CLR 在 win32 之上，
metro CLR 在winRT 之上，
有什么问题么？看不出严重弱化。

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 看一下下面链接里的第二幅图吧。
: http://dougseven.com/2011/09/15/a-bad-picture-is-worth-a-thousa
: 在传统Desktop里面，CLR一切如故。在Merto环境下，CLR是位于WinRT之上的。如果不
: 能接受在Win8环境下，.NET客户端开发被严重弱化的事实，就纯属掩耳盗铃了。

l*********s
发帖数: 5409

net framework is kind of pointless for windows platform. MS lacks of
incentive to keep investing in this.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

.Net uses Java model but uses a different runtime too.
So much about .Net model.
XAML is not .Net, period.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

In desktop you can write desktop apps either in .Net or C++. In
Metro you can write Metro apps either in .Net or C++. It's the
same option. In RT anything you code in C++ can be done in .Net
and vice versa so where's this "弱化" you worry about?
And why would MSFT even want to 弱化 .Net? The WinDiv is craving
for developers from all background to code RT apps, which is why
they support not only .Net/C++ but also JS in RT. You panic for
no reason.

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

What are you talking about? .Net is used all over the place inside
Office, Azure and other MSFT flagship products. You define that as
"lacks of incentive"?

【在 l*********s 的大作中提到】

: net framework is kind of pointless for windows platform. MS lacks of
: incentive to keep investing in this.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

Well .Net does not get banned by US Govt over security holes so
it's apparently not using the Java model (thank god).
All kidding aside, what a known .Net ignoramus like you know
anything about .Net?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: .Net uses Java model but uses a different runtime too.
: So much about .Net model.
: XAML is not .Net, period.

l*********s
发帖数: 5409

look, .net is practically windows only. The benefit of portability from VM
is lost. The remained benefit of automated memory management is good but not
free,it is at the cost of performance. I don't think MS replicating Java is
very meaningful to begin with. The whole net framework lacks a clear
business case for it.
If you could put a dollar figure on Net's contribution to OS and Office
sales, I believe the situation would be much different.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Well .Net does not get banned by US Govt over security holes so
: it's apparently not using the Java model (thank god).
: All kidding aside, what a known .Net ignoramus like you know
: anything about .Net?

N********n
发帖数: 8363

.Net is designed to be a productive framework. W/o it, you would
still be writing those crazy COM / DCOM code. Imagine coing a WCF
app in that environment. It would be hell.
.Net has simplified that process a lot so it remains a great
framework for writing business apps.

【在 l*********s 的大作中提到】

: look, .net is practically windows only. The benefit of portability from VM
: is lost. The remained benefit of automated memory management is good but not
: free,it is at the cost of performance. I don't think MS replicating Java is
: very meaningful to begin with. The whole net framework lacks a clear
: business case for it.
: If you could put a dollar figure on Net's contribution to OS and Office
: sales, I believe the situation would be much different.

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进入DotNet版参与讨论

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

You are not going against me, you are going against M$ architects who drew
these roadmap charts. One picture is worth one thousand words. It's obvious
SL is dead, .Net is weakened. Call me ignorant, I have no business with M$
and I couldn't care less if .Net dies or not. You are in complete denial.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: .Net is designed to be a productive framework. W/o it, you would
: still be writing those crazy COM / DCOM code. Imagine coing a WCF
: app in that environment. It would be hell.
: .Net has simplified that process a lot so it remains a great
: framework for writing business apps.

l*********s
发帖数: 5409

libraries with simplified interface will just do the job fine.You don't need
virtual machine on top of real machine, especially you when "own" the
underlying machine.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

Silverlight will rule it all.
-- NeverLearn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight
As of 26 August 2011, 0.3% sites are using Silverlight,[21] whereas site
usage of Adobe Flash is around 27%.[22] Usage of Java on sites during the
same time period is around 4%

t*****s
发帖数: 124

能详细解释一下下面这句话吗？
.Net itself is a wrapper around the COM / COM+ objects.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

B********t
发帖数: 1321

大家不要跟“NeverLearn”胡搅蛮缠了，轻松一下，看一段网友改编的希特勒关于
Silverlight的视频：
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRFiu0xfQzw&autoplay=1

r***o
发帖数: 1526

Wrapper of COM只是.NET功能里的一小部分吧，
.NET library里除了UI和IO里用到Windows API，其他基本都是和OS无关的native的

【在 t*****s 的大作中提到】

: 能详细解释一下下面这句话吗？
: .Net itself is a wrapper around the COM / COM+ objects.

r****y
发帖数: 26819

台词怎么像刚刚做上去似的，太熟悉了。。。

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 大家不要跟“NeverLearn”胡搅蛮缠了，轻松一下，看一段网友改编的希特勒关于
: Silverlight的视频：
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRFiu0xfQzw&autoplay=1

N********n
发帖数: 8363

So why are you against this chart coming straight from official
MSFT presentation? .Net covers phone, tablet, web and cloud and
yet you are still YYing '.Net weakened'. You are a joke.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: You are not going against me, you are going against M$ architects who drew
: these roadmap charts. One picture is worth one thousand words. It's obvious
: SL is dead, .Net is weakened. Call me ignorant, I have no business with M$
: and I couldn't care less if .Net dies or not. You are in complete denial.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

This METRO stuff was SL from day one since Windows Phone 7. In
Win8 they expanded it to support C++ so that more developers,
especially game developers, could bring their apps to WinRT. It
has nothing to do with weakening .Net. You are simply clueless.

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 大家不要跟“NeverLearn”胡搅蛮缠了，轻松一下，看一段网友改编的希特勒关于
: Silverlight的视频：
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRFiu0xfQzw&autoplay=1

N********n
发帖数: 8363

You forgot how hard COM development was before .Net. It's .Net
that solved the "DLL HELL" problem that drove COM developers mad.
Without .Net, it would remain a big mess. For business developers,
once you go .Net you don't look back.

【在 l*********s 的大作中提到】

: libraries with simplified interface will just do the job fine.You don't need
: virtual machine on top of real machine, especially you when "own" the
: underlying machine.

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进入DotNet版参与讨论

N********n
发帖数: 8363

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model#.NET

【在 t*****s 的大作中提到】

: 能详细解释一下下面这句话吗？
: .Net itself is a wrapper around the COM / COM+ objects.

B********t
发帖数: 1321

你知道什么是Silverlight吗？不要告诉我XAML+C#就是Silverlight。Metro下的IE连
AddIn都没有了，你还Day One，你要让Metro下的Silverlight在空气里运行？
另外，最反感你这种中文论坛用英文回帖的，能来美国留学的，谁英文差了。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model#.NET

r****y
发帖数: 26819

你可能有所不知，NeverLearn跟goodbug因为SilverLight的话题争吵已久。NeverLearn
以前说过SilverLight will rule all之类的话，所以他现在坚持认为XAML+C#就是SL，
这样SL可以继续rule all。

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 你知道什么是Silverlight吗？不要告诉我XAML+C#就是Silverlight。Metro下的IE连
: AddIn都没有了，你还Day One，你要让Metro下的Silverlight在空气里运行？
: 另外，最反感你这种中文论坛用英文回帖的，能来美国留学的，谁英文差了。

r****y
发帖数: 26819

解决DLL HELL问题的关键是metadata，所有CLR app都可以使用metadata.
现在的WinRT是unmanaged native layer，直接在NT Kernel上面，而不需要CLR。Win32
，COM，.NET API和HTML5/CSS3 API都是WinRT里的小子集。所以，现在.NET在桌面端的
替代开发方式更多了，地位是比以前弱了。在服务器端，.NET是微软平台唯一的官方
选择，所以地位没变。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Component_Object_Model#.NET

N********n
发帖数: 8363

整天看你们几个人翻来覆去抬杠真是费劲。说METRO不是SL就象说ANDROID
不是JAVA. ANDROID上同样不能跑JAVA APPLET那ANDROID就不是JAVA了？
前面已经解释过了，MOBILE平台上不能REUSE .Net的GUI，因为.Net GUI是
为大屏幕设计的，那些菜单、工具栏、DATAGRID控件在TOUCH环境下没法操
作，所以要做一个新的TOUCH GUI平台。这才有了第一版的METRO和WP7。从
一开始METRO就是以SL ENGINE做框架的。
你可以不信我，但是你去看看.Net architect SCOTT GU怎么说的
http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/18/microsofts-scott-guthrie-on-si
WPHONE7推出之后得到的反馈是下一版METRO需要C++接口，因为最卖钱的
APP是GAMES。大多数GAME FIRM都用C++。支持了C++就可以吸引这些FIRM
来开发METRO GAMES。所以现在的METRO才一定要支持C++。这跟弱化.Net
根本风马牛不相及。

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

Have no idea what you are talking about. 桌面开发 can ALWAYS be
done in pure C++/Win32. That option is always there especially
for multimedia apps. .Net never has a monopoly on 桌面开发.
The situation remains the SAME in WinRT. You can code METRO apps
in either .Net or VC++. There's no such thing as '比以前弱了'.
And Win32 is not a "WinRT里的小子集". It's the other way around.
WinRT is a tightened-up pure GUI environment. A lot of Win32 APIs
are not available in METRO due to that tight control, and I think
COM APIs are among the unavailable ones.

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 解决DLL HELL问题的关键是metadata，所有CLR app都可以使用metadata.
: 现在的WinRT是unmanaged native layer，直接在NT Kernel上面，而不需要CLR。Win32
: ，COM，.NET API和HTML5/CSS3 API都是WinRT里的小子集。所以，现在.NET在桌面端的
: 替代开发方式更多了，地位是比以前弱了。在服务器端，.NET是微软平台唯一的官方
: 选择，所以地位没变。

B********t
发帖数: 1321

最后一次回你的帖子，你这么偏执的人，也是仅在网上遇到。
Silverlight的基本运行环境是浏览器的插件，是Rich Internet Applications, 在IE
10的Metro版本，完全不支持插件了，其实也就宣告了Silverlight这项技术在Metro，
也就是未来Windows平台的死亡。
现存的Silverlight网站，不经过大规模改动成或者普通Web网站，或者Metro风格的
Win8 App，只能是随着新一代Windows的普及而关闭。微软这么做，就是视Silverlight
开发社区，和在这项技术上花费大量投资的人和公司如无物。
而所谓的Metro平台，C++/JavaScript/.NET又完全是平起平坐，恐怕微软自身对于未来
的发展都开始混沌不清了。
幸运的是，在企业级层面，目前还没多少企业对Win8有多大兴趣，要不然，Steven
Sinofsky也不会被开掉了，我们有时间可以从容的把现有Silerlight网站用Spring MVC
逐步改写成一个传统网站，这其实本来也在我们的计划之内，越来越多的客户要求我们
支持iPad，而iPad/iPhone的浏览器并不支持Silverlight插件。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Have no idea what you are talking about. 桌面开发 can ALWAYS be
: done in pure C++/Win32. That option is always there especially
: for multimedia apps. .Net never has a monopoly on 桌面开发.
: The situation remains the SAME in WinRT. You can code METRO apps
: in either .Net or VC++. There's no such thing as '比以前弱了'.
: And Win32 is not a "WinRT里的小子集". It's the other way around.
: WinRT is a tightened-up pure GUI environment. A lot of Win32 APIs
: are not available in METRO due to that tight control, and I think
: COM APIs are among the unavailable ones.

r****y
发帖数: 26819

只听说android是linux，没听说android是java。
也没听说Metro是SliverLight。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

r****y
发帖数: 26819

一直可以用c++/Win32开发桌面，现在又多了一种，HTML/CSS3/JS。.NET的替代品多了一
种。
WinRT包括的是Win32的一个子集。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

Windows8 still has a desktop browser that runs SL, and SL is by
contract supported til 2020 so why do you panic?
Oh yeah, that's right. It's b/c your business requires your app
to be on iPad where SL is not supported. Then I'm sorry but this
has nothing to do with Win8/METRO, does it?
And what is this blab blah "C++/JavaScript/.NET又完全是平起平坐，
恐怕微软自身对于未来的发展都开始混沌不清了"? C++ and .Net have
been "平起平坐" all these years. It's nothing new. JS is simply
a joke in METRO, the next IronPython flop waiting to happen. You
are the one being 混沌不清 here.

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 最后一次回你的帖子，你这么偏执的人，也是仅在网上遇到。
: Silverlight的基本运行环境是浏览器的插件，是Rich Internet Applications, 在IE
: 10的Metro版本，完全不支持插件了，其实也就宣告了Silverlight这项技术在Metro，
: 也就是未来Windows平台的死亡。
: 现存的Silverlight网站，不经过大规模改动成或者普通Web网站，或者Metro风格的
: Win8 App，只能是随着新一代Windows的普及而关闭。微软这么做，就是视Silverlight
: 开发社区，和在这项技术上花费大量投资的人和公司如无物。
: 而所谓的Metro平台，C++/JavaScript/.NET又完全是平起平坐，恐怕微软自身对于未来
: 的发展都开始混沌不清了。
: 幸运的是，在企业级层面，目前还没多少企业对Win8有多大兴趣，要不然，Steven

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● asp.net咋不用javascript做client-side编程？	● about windows 8
进入DotNet版参与讨论

N********n
发帖数: 8363

So could you show me how to write a JS app to open a named-pipe to
communicate with other Windows apps? It's not too much to ask since
according to you JS can "替代" .NET now. HOHO.
And you "没听说android是java"? So what did Oracle sue Google over
Android for? You really don't know what you are talking about.

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 一直可以用c++/Win32开发桌面，现在又多了一种，HTML/CSS3/JS。.NET的替代品多了一
: 种。
: WinRT包括的是Win32的一个子集。

r****y
发帖数: 26819

你得先确定WinRT支持named pipe吧。
你是说android是用java写的？简称“android是java”？这种说法还真怪。不解释的话，
我还真不知道可以这么简称。
Metro是用SilverLight写的吗br />

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: So could you show me how to write a JS app to open a named-pipe to
: communicate with other Windows apps? It's not too much to ask since
: according to you JS can "替代" .NET now. HOHO.
: And you "没听说android是java"? So what did Oracle sue Google over
: Android for? You really don't know what you are talking about.

n*w
发帖数: 3393

一个强调开发技术的相似性。 silverlight是和winrt，wpf技术上有很多重合。
一个强调作为浏览器的plugin的silverlight前途暗淡。microsoft是有可能不会有
Silverlight 6.0，7.0了。

t*****s
发帖数: 124

是啊，所以我对这个wrapper的说法有点不解
虽然.Net是由COM演化而来，而且.Net与COM也可以互操作
但.Net是基于虚拟机的，是一个全新的生态系统

【在 r***o 的大作中提到】

: Wrapper of COM只是.NET功能里的一小部分吧，
: .NET library里除了UI和IO里用到Windows API，其他基本都是和OS无关的native的

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

How does the chart prove me wrong? I said SL is DEAD. And .NET is weakened.
1. I don't see SL in the chart at all. And 0.3% of all websites prove SL is
nothing but on death bed now.
2. .Net comes from the dominant choice, to one of the three choices, that's
weakened. WinRT obviously takes the center stage now, not .Net.
At the end of the day, let's face it. 2012 is the first year in 10+ years
more non-PC are shipped than PC. PC is on fast decline. And WP8 remains a
niche market. You can boast .Net all you will, but it can go nowhere but
south.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

Android不能跑Java Applet说明的是Android不是Applet。Android显然能跑Java，所以
Android是Java。SL对应的是Java Applet。C#对应的才是Java。SL死了，Java Applet
也基本死了，甚至连Flash都快死了。C#还能苟活一阵子。
你连基本逻辑都没有呀。为了一点脸皮，SL一会是.Net，一会是XAML，就差没说SL是
Windows了。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

你装傻吧。只有不准备推出新版本的时候才会整10年，否则一般都是2-3年。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

r***o
发帖数: 1526

为什么不用ASP.NET MVC,
用了Spring以后头痛的事情来了再后悔就晚了

IE
Silverlight

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

r****y
发帖数: 26819

楼主说后台是Java的。我觉得是个转学Java的好机会，比只有机会接触一种好。

【在 r***o 的大作中提到】

: 为什么不用ASP.NET MVC,
: 用了Spring以后头痛的事情来了再后悔就晚了
:
: IE
: Silverlight

r***o
发帖数: 1526

PC个人用户少了又怎么样，只要企业里还在用PC，Outlook和Windows server，微软就
会活得好好的
企业里面一个Web应用，用户也许就几十个人，但是企业砸进去个几百万都是很正常的事

is
s

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: How does the chart prove me wrong? I said SL is DEAD. And .NET is weakened.
: 1. I don't see SL in the chart at all. And 0.3% of all websites prove SL is
: nothing but on death bed now.
: 2. .Net comes from the dominant choice, to one of the three choices, that's
: weakened. WinRT obviously takes the center stage now, not .Net.
: At the end of the day, let's face it. 2012 is the first year in 10+ years
: more non-PC are shipped than PC. PC is on fast decline. And WP8 remains a
: niche market. You can boast .Net all you will, but it can go nowhere but
: south.

相关主题
● about windows 8	● Web application 的现状和.net
● Re: 问一个，WP上的软件是什么写的？ (转载)	● 请教这样的小系统怎么做
● share: 10 skills for developers to focus on in 2013	● SilverLight 3 is ready
进入DotNet版参与讨论

r***o
发帖数: 1526

对个人当然好，对公司就难说了

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 楼主说后台是Java的。我觉得是个转学Java的好机会，比只有机会接触一种好。

r****y
发帖数: 26819

为啥？这俩对公司区别很大吗？

【在 r***o 的大作中提到】

: 对个人当然好，对公司就难说了

r***o
发帖数: 1526

公司换平台当然是很玄的事情，一个成熟的东西最好少动

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 为啥？这俩对公司区别很大吗？

r****y
发帖数: 26819

楼主的例子不是换不换的问题，而是换成什么的问题。
如果说换成ASP.NET MVC比换成Spring MVC好，区别是什么？
要说这两个framework的成熟度，应该是Spring MVC好吧。

【在 r***o 的大作中提到】

: 公司换平台当然是很玄的事情，一个成熟的东西最好少动

m****e
发帖数: 71

BubbleSort,各位牛人好！
我们公司最近上面也放弃 .net,c#,wcf了，要全面转向java。各位转java的可有好的教
程推荐？不想这么快被公司累。
小人以前大都是c# wcf 的背景，不喜欢做web app.
谢谢！

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

B********t
发帖数: 1321

完全同意。

is
s

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

B********t
发帖数: 1321

如果用Spring的话，Spring in Action就挺好。正在学习中。其实.NET和Spring相似程
度还是蛮大的，两个平台一直都在相互学习。

【在 m****e 的大作中提到】

: BubbleSort,各位牛人好！
: 我们公司最近上面也放弃 .net,c#,wcf了，要全面转向java。各位转java的可有好的教
: 程推荐？不想这么快被公司累。
: 小人以前大都是c# wcf 的背景，不喜欢做web app.
: 谢谢！

B********t
发帖数: 1321

前不久我们组刚刚更换了经理，新经理是Java老兵。对我来说是非常好的转学Java的机
会，俗语云，技不压身。况且两种平台的相似程度还是蛮高的。
ASP.NET MVC和Spring MVC是很类似的技术，核心都是jQuery + HTML/CSS + MVC框架。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 楼主说后台是Java的。我觉得是个转学Java的好机会，比只有机会接触一种好。

m****e
发帖数: 71

那backend web services, rest services也用spring?
公司以前用的是wcf做的soa backend.
上面只想dump .net又不指明方向，唉

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 如果用Spring的话，Spring in Action就挺好。正在学习中。其实.NET和Spring相似程
: 度还是蛮大的，两个平台一直都在相互学习。

B********t
发帖数: 1321

我们是银行，几乎所有的Backend都是Java开发的。如果Server端是.NET开发的，还真
没必要着急换，目前几乎所有关于.NET的争论都是集中在客户端开发的，微软这方面简
直就是一团浆糊。
我们的问题不是换不换，而是换成什么。

【在 m****e 的大作中提到】

: 那backend web services, rest services也用spring?
: 公司以前用的是wcf做的soa backend.
: 上面只想dump .net又不指明方向，唉

相关主题
● SilverLight好象没啥意思	● 网页制作的最高境界
● Silverlight vs HTML5 War	● c# 用code 做的chart太丑了，大家用什么插件来让它变fancy点。
● 微软渐弃Silverlight	● Free Video Training: ASP.NET MVC 3 Features
进入DotNet版参与讨论

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

活，跟活得好是两码事。看看微软这10年的股价就知道了。

的事

【在 r***o 的大作中提到】

: PC个人用户少了又怎么样，只要企业里还在用PC，Outlook和Windows server，微软就
: 会活得好好的
: 企业里面一个Web应用，用户也许就几十个人，但是企业砸进去个几百万都是很正常的事
:
: is
: s

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

你们这种应用无脑用Spring MVC就对了。开发简单，性能好。必要的地方加一点jquery
的控件即可。
跟web 2.0的网站不一样，不用那么漂亮。

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 我们是银行，几乎所有的Backend都是Java开发的。如果Server端是.NET开发的，还真
: 没必要着急换，目前几乎所有关于.NET的争论都是集中在客户端开发的，微软这方面简
: 直就是一团浆糊。
: 我们的问题不是换不换，而是换成什么。

N********n
发帖数: 8363

Did you read the Scott Gu link I posted? Scott Gu is architect
of the .Net team.
When METRO/WP7 was first announced in 2010 he was specifically
asked what this WP7 platform is, and he made it clear: "it isn't
Silverlight light or Silverlight something else. It is Silverlight."
They did take some SL features off in order to fit in mobile devices
but it's still SL from day one.
http://techcrunch.com/2010/03/18/microsofts-scott-guthrie-on-si

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 楼主的例子不是换不换的问题，而是换成什么的问题。
: 如果说换成ASP.NET MVC比换成Spring MVC好，区别是什么？
: 要说这两个framework的成熟度，应该是Spring MVC好吧。

N********n
发帖数: 8363

Yeah. Let's talk about 脸皮. METRO is SL since WP7 as Scott Gu,
the .Net ARCHITECT, made it clear from day one, and yet you, a
known .Net ignoramus, want us to believe you know METRO / SL
better than Scott the architect himself. Some 脸皮, man!
As if you are not stupid enough, you came up with a new ".Net
weakened" spin simply b/c Metro supports non-.Net languages.
Guess what? Windows always support non-.Net languages. Browsers
are C++ apps. Adobe is C++. Winamp is C++, Skype is Delphi ...
Windows apps can always be coded in other languages. Metro is
of the same tradition and yet you came out like a drama queen
as if it's proof Win8 has weakened .Net.
You've got the dumbest and thickest 脸皮 of all, pal. LOL.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: 你们这种应用无脑用Spring MVC就对了。开发简单，性能好。必要的地方加一点jquery
: 的控件即可。
: 跟web 2.0的网站不一样，不用那么漂亮。

r****y
发帖数: 26819

没错，这是Scott在2010年初对WP7讲的，那个时候的metro是对WP7的。但是现在WP8已经
没有SilverLight，Scott已经不在领导ASP.NET，他转去领导Azure，而且Azure的
portal界面也去掉了SliverLight UI，换成了HTML5。
然后Scott最有名的就是那篇报道：Microsoft’s Scott Guthrie on what has happen
ed to Silverlight
http://www.itwriting.com/blog/5948-microsofts-scott-guthrie-on-
ened-to-silverlight.html
报道里说：
He seemed to me to be saying that even if Silverlight is dead (nobody expect
s a Silverlight 6), XAML lives on.
It is as if, back in 2009 and early 2010, the memo went out: use Silverlight
for everything. Then, later in 2010, the memo went out: use HTML for everyt
hing; but too late for the current generation of server admin products.
以及Silverlight Transitions Continue for Developers and Microsoft
http://visualstudiomagazine.com/articles/2012/07/13/silverlight
continue-for-developers-and-microsoft.aspx

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Yeah. Let's talk about 脸皮. METRO is SL since WP7 as Scott Gu,
: the .Net ARCHITECT, made it clear from day one, and yet you, a
: known .Net ignoramus, want us to believe you know METRO / SL
: better than Scott the architect himself. Some 脸皮, man!
: As if you are not stupid enough, you came up with a new ".Net
: weakened" spin simply b/c Metro supports non-.Net languages.
: Guess what? Windows always support non-.Net languages. Browsers
: are C++ apps. Adobe is C++. Winamp is C++, Skype is Delphi ...
: Windows apps can always be coded in other languages. Metro is

r****y
发帖数: 26819

准确地说，Metro was SL in WP7.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

为了支持METRO，WP7的SL就已经大改了，因为此前的SL3/SL4是针对鼠标
和键盘的，而WP要TOUCH，所以第一版的METRO就已经改过来了。后来为了
加强GAMING支持，在WIN8的METRO里面加上了C++和DIRECTX。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 没错，这是Scott在2010年初对WP7讲的，那个时候的metro是对WP7的。但是现在WP8已经
: 没有SilverLight，Scott已经不在领导ASP.NET，他转去领导Azure，而且Azure的
: portal界面也去掉了SliverLight UI，换成了HTML5。
: 然后Scott最有名的就是那篇报道：Microsoft’s Scott Guthrie on what has happen
: ed to Silverlight
: http://www.itwriting.com/blog/5948-microsofts-scott-guthrie-on-
: ened-to-silverlight.html
: 报道里说：
: He seemed to me to be saying that even if Silverlight is dead (nobody expect
: s a Silverlight 6), XAML lives on.

r****y
发帖数: 26819

没错，SL仅仅支持鼠标键盘。Metro改动是为了支持触摸操作。SL和Flash一样，因为没法
支持触摸操作，所以被平板和手机系统淘汰了。HTML5canvas支持触摸，支持
orientation。比如这个slides：
http://slides.html5rocks.com/#slide-orientation
Google和W3C还会加上WebRTC，支持对硬件的操作。比如webcam。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: 为了支持METRO，WP7的SL就已经大改了，因为此前的SL3/SL4是针对鼠标
: 和键盘的，而WP要TOUCH，所以第一版的METRO就已经改过来了。后来为了
: 加强GAMING支持，在WIN8的METRO里面加上了C++和DIRECTX。

S***k
发帖数: 370

我到觉得你们当初选sl是件比较奇怪的事情。这个当口换成spring也是正常的。
不知道用wcf的为什么也要凑这个热闹换java哪？

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

FLASH是耗电问题。SL加上TOUCH支持是小菜一碟，一点不难。在METRO没有
支持除了POLITICS原因外就是SL太POWERFUL，很多诸如INTER APP交互之类
的功能在METRO环境下是被禁止的，如果支持了就变成SECURITY BREACH了。
HTML作为RICH CLIENT肯定没戏的。NATIVE APP只要硬件有系统加个API就
可以调用。你写MOBILE APP不会担心系统的ACCELORAMETOR没有API支持。
HTML就未必了，因为HTML和BROWSER标准可能还没有跟上。制定标准又经常
是几个公司互相扯皮，时间全耽误光了。其次JS是一大毒瘤。HTML应该是
让多种语言良性竞争，而不是一个阿猫阿狗JS独霸。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 没错，SL仅仅支持鼠标键盘。Metro改动是为了支持触摸操作。SL和Flash一样，因为没法
: 支持触摸操作，所以被平板和手机系统淘汰了。HTML5canvas支持触摸，支持
: orientation。比如这个slides：
: http://slides.html5rocks.com/#slide-orientation
: Google和W3C还会加上WebRTC，支持对硬件的操作。比如webcam。

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● Webforms vs. MVC	● What is HTML5
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● HTML5 geolocation with Bing Maps	● 研究了sharepoint 2013 app开发模型，认为非常不错
进入DotNet版参与讨论

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

NeverLearn always lives in 2009, just like Silverlight.

已经
happen
expect

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

你就继续悲愤吧。连MS OSD都是H5/JS，不是SL，你叽歪有用吗？

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: FLASH是耗电问题。SL加上TOUCH支持是小菜一碟，一点不难。在METRO没有
: 支持除了POLITICS原因外就是SL太POWERFUL，很多诸如INTER APP交互之类
: 的功能在METRO环境下是被禁止的，如果支持了就变成SECURITY BREACH了。
: HTML作为RICH CLIENT肯定没戏的。NATIVE APP只要硬件有系统加个API就
: 可以调用。你写MOBILE APP不会担心系统的ACCELORAMETOR没有API支持。
: HTML就未必了，因为HTML和BROWSER标准可能还没有跟上。制定标准又经常
: 是几个公司互相扯皮，时间全耽误光了。其次JS是一大毒瘤。HTML应该是
: 让多种语言良性竞争，而不是一个阿猫阿狗JS独霸。

r****y
发帖数: 26819

HTML加JS在微软WinRT平台就是rich client了。
这个话题就到这里吧，以后还有XAML，但没有SL了。HTML在WinRT是不是ironPython，
看看再说。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

HOHO. OSD never uses H5/JS as a rich app framework or they'd end
up in the same embarrassing shoes like Facebook. Keep spinning.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: 你就继续悲愤吧。连MS OSD都是H5/JS，不是SL，你叽歪有用吗？

N********n
发帖数: 8363

They are rich only b/c they are calling the RT APIs. Such JS apps
are native to Win8 so you won't be able to run them on other
platforms. This is why I told you HTML/JS has no cross-platform
rich client future.

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: HTML加JS在微软WinRT平台就是rich client了。
: 这个话题就到这里吧，以后还有XAML，但没有SL了。HTML在WinRT是不是ironPython，
: 看看再说。

r****y
发帖数: 26819

这是不假。但对于RT API来说，其它语言也是来调用API。API就是做这个用的。应该说
微软在WinRT上给了JS跟C#、C++同等的地位。那回过头来问，为啥给JS这么高的从没有
过的地位？还不是因为JS的人气，因为现在client端的潮流是HTML5+JS+CSS3，这样在
用JS写其它程序的人可以很方便地顺手开发WinRT上的版本。换句话说，微软很在乎技术
的延续性，这也就是为什么SL虽然死掉了，但是微软要把XAML延续下去的原因，SL插件
平台可以没有，人气得保留下来。一个道理。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: They are rich only b/c they are calling the RT APIs. Such JS apps
: are native to Win8 so you won't be able to run them on other
: platforms. This is why I told you HTML/JS has no cross-platform
: rich client future.

m****e
发帖数: 71

existing .net/wcf servers will stay, but any new components will be written
in java. looks like the management will decide the java service framework
soon.
sigh I thought .net /wcf can survive longer than bill gates, but .net is a
dead product in the managements' eyes :(

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

r****y
发帖数: 26819

服务器端的.NET不可能被替换掉吧，微软没有别的技术填补。除非服务器不用微软平台。

written

【在 m****e 的大作中提到】

: existing .net/wcf servers will stay, but any new components will be written
: in java. looks like the management will decide the java service framework
: soon.
: sigh I thought .net /wcf can survive longer than bill gates, but .net is a
: dead product in the managements' eyes :(

h*****a
发帖数: 1718

Lol, 太逗了

大家不要跟“NeverLearn”胡搅蛮缠了，轻松一下，看一段网友改编的希特勒关于
Silverlight的视频：http://www.youtube.com/........

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

: 大家不要跟“NeverLearn”胡搅蛮缠了，轻松一下，看一段网友改编的希特勒关于
: Silverlight的视频：
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RRFiu0xfQzw&autoplay=1

t*****s
发帖数: 124

100

微软该有点危机感了
既然Windows平台可以从PC延伸到手机
Android也应该能从手机逆袭到桌面系统
考虑到Android已有的庞大的用户，应用程序和开发人员数
这种逆袭是很有可能发生的

的事

【在 r***o 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● SilverLight现在发展怎么样，新项目用SilverLight合适吗	● share: 10 skills for developers to focus on in 2013
● about windows 8	● Web application 的现状和.net
● Re: 问一个，WP上的软件是什么写的？ (转载)	● 请教这样的小系统怎么做
进入DotNet版参与讨论

H*******g
发帖数: 6997

101

逆袭了啊，但是死的很悲催。

【在 t*****s 的大作中提到】

: 微软该有点危机感了
: 既然Windows平台可以从PC延伸到手机
: Android也应该能从手机逆袭到桌面系统
: 考虑到Android已有的庞大的用户，应用程序和开发人员数
: 这种逆袭是很有可能发生的
:
: 的事

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

102

You keep spinning huh? OSD is online service to begin with.
They use Html/JS almost exclusively. So much about your rich app framework.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

c***r
发帖数: 4631

103

高级黑

【在 d********u 的大作中提到】

: VISTA出来的时候一帮人也是哈哈大笑，嘲笑VISTA烂，肯定卖不好，个人和企业都不会
: 用，LINUX要一统江湖，MS要挂了，布拉布拉布拉。。。
: 结果大家也看到了。VISTA那么烂都秒了其他所有的OS。LINUX最搞笑，2000年就要在
: DESKTOP上革MS的命，现在可好，要靠小数点后2位才能勉强苟延残喘地保持不是0,
: SERVER端被蚕食地七零八落。
: PUSSY就是这样，不管别人做了什么，它们就等着看笑话。自己什么也做不出来。反正
: 是装逼，它们都不用装。
: 顺便问一句，WPF还活着不？
:
: Developer

N********n
发帖数: 8363

104

OSD uses HTML for content. They don't write rich apps in HTML.
Those who wrote rich apps in HTML have flopped. PALM wrote WebOS
in HTML. A flop. Zynga wrote games in HTML. A flop.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: You keep spinning huh? OSD is online service to begin with.
: They use Html/JS almost exclusively. So much about your rich app framework.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

105

LOL, so tell me. Are Bing maps, hotmail.com/outlook.com not RIA, or they are
flops?

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: OSD uses HTML for content. They don't write rich apps in HTML.
: Those who wrote rich apps in HTML have flopped. PALM wrote WebOS
: in HTML. A flop. Zynga wrote games in HTML. A flop.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

106

No one treats TEXT-based hotmail (or any online email services) as
a rich app. The online maps are not rich enough either. All popular
GPS services use native clients. HTML as a rich app framework = fail.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: LOL, so tell me. Are Bing maps, hotmail.com/outlook.com not RIA, or they are
: flops?

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

107

Maybe you should get yourself educated and stop being so ignorant. This is
how RIA is defined on wiki.
"A Rich Internet Application (RIA) is a Web application that has many of the
characteristics of desktop application software, typically delivered by way
of a site-specific browser, a browser plug-in, an independent sandbox,
extensive use of JavaScript, or a virtual machine."
And some technologies, like GWT, ExtJS and Vaadin are mentioned on that page
, which all render pure html/js in the browsers.
Obviously Gmail and Gmaps deliver by using exclusive html/js. And gmail
delivers most of what a traditional mail client delivers. Now Hotmail and
bing map may be flops, but they are RIA too by mimicking what Google did.
The trend is here. It doesn't matter you get it or not. You can cherish your
SL skills and get out of job soon, I couldn't care less.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: No one treats TEXT-based hotmail (or any online email services) as
: a rich app. The online maps are not rich enough either. All popular
: GPS services use native clients. HTML as a rich app framework = fail.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

108

Maybe you should stop fooling around with these lame definitions.
No one but you spin text-based web mails as rich apps. Customers
did not find these dumb text pages rich, which is why they dumped
WebOS, skipped Zynga and forced FB to write their apps in native.
HTML as a rich framework = FAIL. Don't hate me. Market says so.
While H5 flops, SL has expanded its model to become the go-to
rich platform for both WP8 and Win8 DUE TO ITS TECHNICAL MERITS.
In fact METRO is so similar to SL that when people hire WP8 and
Win8 developers SL folks are a straight pass. Sorry to bust your
"SL skill useless" pipe dream but market knows it better than you.
While Html flops and remains merely a single page hype, SL is
picked to deliver true richness. Case closed on which is better.
What's your next spin?

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Maybe you should get yourself educated and stop being so ignorant. This is
: how RIA is defined on wiki.
: "A Rich Internet Application (RIA) is a Web application that has many of the
: characteristics of desktop application software, typically delivered by way
: of a site-specific browser, a browser plug-in, an independent sandbox,
: extensive use of JavaScript, or a virtual machine."
: And some technologies, like GWT, ExtJS and Vaadin are mentioned on that page
: , which all render pure html/js in the browsers.
: Obviously Gmail and Gmaps deliver by using exclusive html/js. And gmail
: delivers most of what a traditional mail client delivers. Now Hotmail and

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

109

LOL, you are really in your own league in terms of shameless. After boasting
"no one" deemed Ajax apps "rich". Now wiki is lame too becoz it slaps you
in the face.
"Rich" means RIAs do what desktop apps do. And the majority of desktop apps
are nothing but text plus some images too. I guess they ain't rich either.
Whatever, good luck with your 0.3% SL web dominance. HTML5 is just the last
nail on the coffin. I don't want to beat the dead horse.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Maybe you should stop fooling around with these lame definitions.
: No one but you spin text-based web mails as rich apps. Customers
: did not find these dumb text pages rich, which is why they dumped
: WebOS, skipped Zynga and forced FB to write their apps in native.
: HTML as a rich framework = FAIL. Don't hate me. Market says so.
: While H5 flops, SL has expanded its model to become the go-to
: rich platform for both WP8 and Win8 DUE TO ITS TECHNICAL MERITS.
: In fact METRO is so similar to SL that when people hire WP8 and
: Win8 developers SL folks are a straight pass. Sorry to bust your

N********n
发帖数: 8363

110

Whoa!! So text + image = rich? Are you still living in 1990s?? Do
you know what modern users want from a rich platform?
How about some 3D HD gaming in HTML? No? OK, strike 1!
How about some audio / video editing? Still no? Strike 2!
What about touch and gesture support? Another no? Strike 3!
3 swing. 3 miss. ^_^ Alright since you are new I'll be nice and
give you a 2nd shot to see if you can still score some richness.
How about photo editing? No? Strike 4! Now, your last chance.
How about video chat? No again? Strike 5! Enough is enough.
5 swing. 5 miss. Your HTML scores a goose egg to strike its ass
out. Rich HTML. Gimme a goddamn break. LOL!!!

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: LOL, you are really in your own league in terms of shameless. After boasting
: "no one" deemed Ajax apps "rich". Now wiki is lame too becoz it slaps you
: in the face.
: "Rich" means RIAs do what desktop apps do. And the majority of desktop apps
: are nothing but text plus some images too. I guess they ain't rich either.
: Whatever, good luck with your 0.3% SL web dominance. HTML5 is just the last
: nail on the coffin. I don't want to beat the dead horse.

相关主题
● 请教这样的小系统怎么做	● Silverlight vs HTML5 War
● SilverLight 3 is ready	● 微软渐弃Silverlight
● SilverLight好象没啥意思	● 网页制作的最高境界
进入DotNet版参与讨论

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

111

LOL, just a few examples why it's you living in 1990s.
http://editor.pixastic.com/
http://www.ambiera.com/copperlicht/demos.html
Plus, who said javascript needs to be capable of doing everything to be an
RIA language. C# can't do many things C can do. So C# can't be used to write
application? Your logic is just ridiculous and it's not even funny.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Whoa!! So text + image = rich? Are you still living in 1990s?? Do
: you know what modern users want from a rich platform?
: How about some 3D HD gaming in HTML? No? OK, strike 1!
: How about some audio / video editing? Still no? Strike 2!
: What about touch and gesture support? Another no? Strike 3!
: 3 swing. 3 miss. ^_^ Alright since you are new I'll be nice and
: give you a 2nd shot to see if you can still score some richness.
: How about photo editing? No? Strike 4! Now, your last chance.
: How about video chat? No again? Strike 5! Enough is enough.

d****i
发帖数: 4809

112

NeverLearn你落伍了，你看看最新的Mozilla的Firefox的浏览器已经支持H.264的实时
音频，视频传输了！下一步W3C会将gUM加入WebRTC的标准中，呵呵。不知道你为什么会
对HTML5有这么大的意见，现在连微软都是HTML5和JavaScript的坚定拥护者，再加上
Google, Apple, Facebook等广大技术公司的拥护，HTML5 is the future。
http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-57563964-12/new-firefox-au

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

d****i
发帖数: 4809

113

你可以再读读这篇：
http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/getusermedia/intro/
结论：Sliverlight和Flash都死了，HTML5是最佳解决方案。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

r****y
发帖数: 26819

114

好像google和W3C在合作WebRTC的一个版本，微软为了自己的skype网页版在做webRTC的
另一个版本。IE的动作比其它浏览器慢。

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

: NeverLearn你落伍了，你看看最新的Mozilla的Firefox的浏览器已经支持H.264的实时
: 音频，视频传输了！下一步W3C会将gUM加入WebRTC的标准中，呵呵。不知道你为什么会
: 对HTML5有这么大的意见，现在连微软都是HTML5和JavaScript的坚定拥护者，再加上
: Google, Apple, Facebook等广大技术公司的拥护，HTML5 is the future。
: http://download.cnet.com/8301-2007_4-57563964-12/new-firefox-au

r****y
发帖数: 26819

115

这个slides也不错:
http://slides.html5rocks.com/#landing-slide

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

: 你可以再读读这篇：
: http://www.html5rocks.com/en/tutorials/getusermedia/intro/
: 结论：Sliverlight和Flash都死了，HTML5是最佳解决方案。

r****y
发帖数: 26819

116

如果你上一次做js还是2008年，如果你一直只做.NET编程，特别如果你在2010年以前做
过SilverLight，那么我觉得如果你抵制html5+JS应该还是可以理解的吧。
老实说，这世界变化太快，现在html5和js内容太新，如果不做实际代码，确实跟不上。

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

d****i
发帖数: 4809

117

是这样，IE的动作一直比Firefox和Chrome慢，不过现在微软是全面转向支持HTML5和
JavaScript。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 好像google和W3C在合作WebRTC的一个版本，微软为了自己的skype网页版在做webRTC的
: 另一个版本。IE的动作比其它浏览器慢。

d****i
发帖数: 4809

118

现在新出来的各种各样功能的JavaScript的library太多了，不过目前用的最多的还是
jQuery，stackoverflow上的问题有JavaScript和jQuery的tag的问题的总和比所有的其
他语言都多，Github上的JavaScipt的相关的最热火朝天。

上。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 如果你上一次做js还是2008年，如果你一直只做.NET编程，特别如果你在2010年以前做
: 过SilverLight，那么我觉得如果你抵制html5+JS应该还是可以理解的吧。
: 老实说，这世界变化太快，现在html5和js内容太新，如果不做实际代码，确实跟不上。

N********n
发帖数: 8363

119

We just recently discussed how difficult it is to write a rich
list even with today's HTML/JS, didn't we? If it takes so much
hassle to implement sth so simple on a native platform like a
rich list then the HTML/JS framework is fundamentally weak.
If you talk to those who code both native and web apps, they'd
tell you web apps usually take 3 times (or more) as much effort
to code as native ones. Then there're responsiveness and user
experience issues. There's a reason why FB went back to native.

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

r****y
发帖数: 26819

120

就拿微软的WinRT平台为例，以前要做一个Win App，需要Win32 API，后来需要MFC，后
来需要.NET，现在只需要JS + WinRT API，对非微软平台的程序员来说，学习成本还是
在一步步减少。
mobile app确实还不能完全由HTML5取代。不能说mobile app就是HTML app。只不过web
下一个功能如果不用plugin就做得到，那么这个必然胜过其它用plugin的，是现在的趋
势。就步步为营往前走的方向来说，HTML5没有问题。起码你前面说的那几条，不会有
问题。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: We just recently discussed how difficult it is to write a rich
: list even with today's HTML/JS, didn't we? If it takes so much
: hassle to implement sth so simple on a native platform like a
: rich list then the HTML/JS framework is fundamentally weak.
: If you talk to those who code both native and web apps, they'd
: tell you web apps usually take 3 times (or more) as much effort
: to code as native ones. Then there're responsiveness and user
: experience issues. There's a reason why FB went back to native.

相关主题
● c# 用code 做的chart太丑了，大家用什么插件来让它变fancy点。	● Surface 4 WinRT tablet coming October 26th
● Free Video Training: ASP.NET MVC 3 Features	● HTML5 geolocation with Bing Maps
● Webforms vs. MVC	● What is HTML5
进入DotNet版参与讨论

c*********e
发帖数: 16335

121

client-side changes too fast. i don't wanna do that kinda job.

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

: 现在新出来的各种各样功能的JavaScript的library太多了，不过目前用的最多的还是
: jQuery，stackoverflow上的问题有JavaScript和jQuery的tag的问题的总和比所有的其
: 他语言都多，Github上的JavaScipt的相关的最热火朝天。
:
: 上。

d****i
发帖数: 4809

122

前端变化虽多，但是万变不离其宗，从互联网诞生开始就一直是HTML+JavaScript，目
前所有其他的前端技术都死了，返璞归真重新回到原来的只用HTML+JS的模式，而服务
器端反而是各种语言和技术并存且互相竞争：Java, .NET(C#)，PHP, Python, Perl,
Ruby等等，所以看你从哪个角度看问题了。

【在 c*********e 的大作中提到】

: client-side changes too fast. i don't wanna do that kinda job.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

123

说前端变化多，是热点变得快。最初是桌面，接着是WEB，最近几年是mobile。

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

: 前端变化虽多，但是万变不离其宗，从互联网诞生开始就一直是HTML+JavaScript，目
: 前所有其他的前端技术都死了，返璞归真重新回到原来的只用HTML+JS的模式，而服务
: 器端反而是各种语言和技术并存且互相竞争：Java, .NET(C#)，PHP, Python, Perl,
: Ruby等等，所以看你从哪个角度看问题了。

N********n
发帖数: 8363

124

HTML always lags a big step behind whenever new hardware comes up.
All native apps need is a set of APIs for the new hardware for
developers to use. There's no barrier b/t the apps and the APIs.
If it's HTML you have to wait for the standard group to build a
model and then the browser to implement it while the other native
frameworks are charging way past it.

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

x**n
发帖数: 461

125

NeverLearn 你确实是太落伍了。现在流行的RIA定义就是用Html/Javascript/CSS来做。
你能不能给我决个例子什么是silverlight能作而HTML/Javascript/CSS 不能做的，除
了bypass security check直接access local computer 的 resource 除外。
我们公司前年也经历了一场大辩论，结论是Byebye Silverlight.

B**W
发帖数: 2273

126

That's a smart move. I never installed Sliverlight plugin on my PC or office
computers, never. And I didn't see anyone is using it. The MSNBC website (
MS is a big stock holder of that company) once asked users to use
Sliverlight to access its multimedia content, then abandoned that f**king
thing completely. MS is also smart to stop investing more on a dying
technology and start catching up on implementing HTML5 and other W3C
standards in IE10. But still, IE is the worst browser in terms of supporting
W3C standards. Look around, programmers are all complaining about IE. Many
things that work fine on FF, Safari/Chrome fall apart on IE.

做。

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】

: NeverLearn 你确实是太落伍了。现在流行的RIA定义就是用Html/Javascript/CSS来做。
: 你能不能给我决个例子什么是silverlight能作而HTML/Javascript/CSS 不能做的，除
: 了bypass security check直接access local computer 的 resource 除外。
: 我们公司前年也经历了一场大辩论，结论是Byebye Silverlight.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

127

Let me teach you some basics. HTML is just a layout language. The rendering
is done by the underlying engine written by C/C++, as part of browser. And
the browsers are getting updated twice a year as long as they are not named
IE. If
you think it cannot take advantage of better hardware, think again.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: HTML always lags a big step behind whenever new hardware comes up.
: All native apps need is a set of APIs for the new hardware for
: developers to use. There's no barrier b/t the apps and the APIs.
: If it's HTML you have to wait for the standard group to build a
: model and then the browser to implement it while the other native
: frameworks are charging way past it.

r****y
发帖数: 26819

128

比如这个link，FF和chrome都没问题，IE就不行：
http://bleedinghtml5.appspot.com/#1
微软左右为难。它也想开发web app，如果是web app就希望跨浏览器跨平台，但是它又
想固守windows，所以IE就在这种矛盾中内拗内伤，跟FF和Chrome若即若离。

office
supporting
Many

【在 B**W 的大作中提到】

: That's a smart move. I never installed Sliverlight plugin on my PC or office
: computers, never. And I didn't see anyone is using it. The MSNBC website (
: MS is a big stock holder of that company) once asked users to use
: Sliverlight to access its multimedia content, then abandoned that f**king
: thing completely. MS is also smart to stop investing more on a dying
: technology and start catching up on implementing HTML5 and other W3C
: standards in IE10. But still, IE is the worst browser in terms of supporting
: W3C standards. Look around, programmers are all complaining about IE. Many
: things that work fine on FF, Safari/Chrome fall apart on IE.
:

r****y
发帖数: 26819

129

应该说，HTML+CSS+JS的目标不是完全取代mobile app。因为现在的mobile带宽和资源有
限，对用户体验和速度性能要求很高。
web app的进步是跟自身比。就连微软也要做skype的web版，因为web app跟native app
比的好处是不用额外安装，跨越平台，非常灵活。在没有安装权限的时候非常有用。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

d*****l
发帖数: 8441

130

有转移话题之嫌。
人家在讨论微软的始乱终弃问题，你转移到了软工肯不肯学习新东西上去了。

【在 L******e 的大作中提到】

: 。NET,C#，WPF,Silverlight绝对是很好的技术，VisualStudio是最好的IDE，这些微软
: 做得都不错，但是任何一个公司都会有这么一天，这没什么。
: 公司最大的财富不是技术而是人，人最大的价值不是技术而是头脑，软件最大的价值不
: 是技术而是它解决问题的效率。
: 软工之所以被有些自认清高的人看不起，是因为自己把自己放在技术里。当然这也有情
: 可缘，一天到晚学新东西可不就是技术至上吗？所以我们经常忘记软件是要解决问题的
: ，如何最好的解决问题，甚至解决什么问题，最大化的利用可用的技术及资源，这个才
: 是软工的价值。

相关主题
● asp.net咋不用javascript做client-side编程？	● about windows 8
● 研究了sharepoint 2013 app开发模型，认为非常不错	● Re: 问一个，WP上的软件是什么写的？ (转载)
● SilverLight现在发展怎么样，新项目用SilverLight合适吗	● share: 10 skills for developers to focus on in 2013
进入DotNet版参与讨论

k****i
发帖数: 1072

131

做。
你这句话基本把自己立于不败之地了。
silverlight/flex这种framework主要解决什么问题？
1. 拥有比html/js更大的权限
2. much better cross browser support
3. 使得某些单纯用html/js实现比较复杂的功能简单化。
4. client side performance.

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

132

Isn't being able to "access local resource" the key to richness
to begin with? That's why native app always beats HTML app in UX
and richness. You have just shown what blocks HTML from being rich.

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

133

In fact these browsers get updated about 4 times a year if you have
any clue what you are talking about and yet they are still lagging
behind simply b/c there's a standardization procedure blocking it
going fast enough.
Also you apparently have closed to zero HTML/JS experience so you
better not try to "educate" anyone here.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Let me teach you some basics. HTML is just a layout language. The rendering
: is done by the underlying engine written by C/C++, as part of browser. And
: the browsers are getting updated twice a year as long as they are not named
: IE. If
: you think it cannot take advantage of better hardware, think again.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

134

Exactly. These are the typical tricks HTML supporters like to play.
I'll add one more reason why HTML5 currently sucks: Javascript.
Javascript is an anti-engineering piece of crap language. It is
simply not good enough for serious apps. Should these browsers
support sth like C# instead HTML would instantly be 500% more
popular. This is why Google is working on Dart now.

【在 k****i 的大作中提到】

:
: 做。
: 你这句话基本把自己立于不败之地了。
: silverlight/flex这种framework主要解决什么问题？
: 1. 拥有比html/js更大的权限
: 2. much better cross browser support
: 3. 使得某些单纯用html/js实现比较复杂的功能简单化。
: 4. client side performance.

d****i
发帖数: 4809

135

如果C#这么好的话，为什么连微软现在都在客户端全力支持HTML5+JavaScript？你显然
对JS有很大的偏见，当年正是发明JavaScript的Netscape公司和发明Java的Sun公司的
联盟，Java+JavaScript成为互联网的通用语言，微软历史上先后抄袭JavaScript和
Java。具有讽刺意味的是，微软从开始抄袭JavaScript，把互联网的先驱英雄Netscape
用捆绑垄断搞死，一直到到现在完全拥抱支持JS，这个不正是表明了JavaScript的巨大
魅力吗？BTW, C#也是微软抄袭Java的结果。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Exactly. These are the typical tricks HTML supporters like to play.
: I'll add one more reason why HTML5 currently sucks: Javascript.
: Javascript is an anti-engineering piece of crap language. It is
: simply not good enough for serious apps. Should these browsers
: support sth like C# instead HTML would instantly be 500% more
: popular. This is why Google is working on Dart now.

r****y
发帖数: 26819

136

争论holy war这类话题是徒劳，而且还没啥新的信息。
还不如说点新闻，firefox 19开始看PDF不用装PDF插件，直接用内置的javascript写的
插件就能看了。
你看现在web app全不能算严肃的应用了，都用上了JS，微软更是连桌面metro应用都不
严肃了。古典应用才是严肃的，哪怕是小众。主流的现代应用都不严肃。

Netscape

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

: 如果C#这么好的话，为什么连微软现在都在客户端全力支持HTML5+JavaScript？你显然
: 对JS有很大的偏见，当年正是发明JavaScript的Netscape公司和发明Java的Sun公司的
: 联盟，Java+JavaScript成为互联网的通用语言，微软历史上先后抄袭JavaScript和
: Java。具有讽刺意味的是，微软从开始抄袭JavaScript，把互联网的先驱英雄Netscape
: 用捆绑垄断搞死，一直到到现在完全拥抱支持JS，这个不正是表明了JavaScript的巨大
: 魅力吗？BTW, C#也是微软抄袭Java的结果。

d****i
发帖数: 4809

137

我只是翻点科技史的来龙去脉和典故出来，哈哈。Firefox 19 Beta版看PDF文件不用插
件直接用pdf.js生成，这个我前些天就看到了，很不错，解决了adobe插件的大问题。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 争论holy war这类话题是徒劳，而且还没啥新的信息。
: 还不如说点新闻，firefox 19开始看PDF不用装PDF插件，直接用内置的javascript写的
: 插件就能看了。
: 你看现在web app全不能算严肃的应用了，都用上了JS，微软更是连桌面metro应用都不
: 严肃了。古典应用才是严肃的，哪怕是小众。主流的现代应用都不严肃。
:
: Netscape

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

138

LOL, 2 times or 4 times. They all contradict your stupid argument. What's
your point? A language doesn't have to be changed every year to take
advantage of new hardware. You are reaching a new low now.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

139

Nobody but a fool like you considers browser change is enough to
support new hardware. It's only after HTML standard is updated that
such support becomes available, and standardization takes time.
Just another example of you don't know what you are talking about.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: LOL, 2 times or 4 times. They all contradict your stupid argument. What's
: your point? A language doesn't have to be changed every year to take
: advantage of new hardware. You are reaching a new low now.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

140

I'm not the only one with "偏见", OK. There's a reason why even
Google is trying to bring out a Dart alternative. JS has its
inherent problems, and I'm just a messenger.

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● share: 10 skills for developers to focus on in 2013	● SilverLight 3 is ready
● Web application 的现状和.net	● SilverLight好象没啥意思
● 请教这样的小系统怎么做	● Silverlight vs HTML5 War
进入DotNet版参与讨论

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

141

LOL, you are so stupid it's not even worth arguing. How frequent Windows
release a new version? Does it support all new hardware once they become
available? For the record, wp7 wasn't able to support multi-core when
Android flagships are running quad-core. M$ is such a flop and yet you are
so picky at browser, a high level application?
As long as the CPU is faster, the browser is automatically faster, simple as
that. PC hasn't quite been changed in many years and HTML doesn't need to
change that frequently either.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: I'm not the only one with "偏见", OK. There's a reason why even
: Google is trying to bring out a Dart alternative. JS has its
: inherent problems, and I'm just a messenger.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

142

只有0.3%的网站是严肃的，因为silverlight的使用率就只有这么高。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Silverlight
As of 26 August 2011, 0.3% sites are using Silverlight,[21] whereas site
usage of Adobe Flash is around 27%.[

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

143

Sure JS has its problem, all languages have. But a language with problem is
1 million times better than a dead language without problem.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: I'm not the only one with "偏见", OK. There's a reason why even
: Google is trying to bring out a Dart alternative. JS has its
: inherent problems, and I'm just a messenger.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

144

What kinda irrelevant nonsense are you talking about? People
want to access new hardware such as accelerometer or Kinect in
their APPs, and native system can provide such APIs much faster.
They are not asking you for a new CPU. Cut the spinning.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: LOL, you are so stupid it's not even worth arguing. How frequent Windows
: release a new version? Does it support all new hardware once they become
: available? For the record, wp7 wasn't able to support multi-core when
: Android flagships are running quad-core. M$ is such a flop and yet you are
: so picky at browser, a high level application?
: As long as the CPU is faster, the browser is automatically faster, simple as
: that. PC hasn't quite been changed in many years and HTML doesn't need to
: change that frequently either.

d****i
发帖数: 4809

145

事实胜于雄辩，JS dominate了所有的网站，而且被Google, Apple, 微软，Facebook,
Twitter, Yahoo各大主要技术公司不断推进，各种基于JS的library层出不穷，语言上
一些部分被ECMAScript的标准化组织所改进，不光传统的桌面，现在很多跨平台的
mobile app的开发也依靠JS, 所以你再悲愤也没有用了。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: What kinda irrelevant nonsense are you talking about? People
: want to access new hardware such as accelerometer or Kinect in
: their APPs, and native system can provide such APIs much faster.
: They are not asking you for a new CPU. Cut the spinning.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

146

事实 is WebOS is DEAD. Facebook switches away from HTML to native
b/c JS is not fast enough. Google works on a JS replacement. MS has
to provide a TypeScript to make it suck less.
The sole reason JS could "dominate" is simply b/c there's no other
alternative to it in the web world, and don't count on that. Should
there be a better option JS will be abandoned, and you know it.

【在 d****i 的大作中提到】

: 事实胜于雄辩，JS dominate了所有的网站，而且被Google, Apple, 微软，Facebook,
: Twitter, Yahoo各大主要技术公司不断推进，各种基于JS的library层出不穷，语言上
: 一些部分被ECMAScript的标准化组织所改进，不光传统的桌面，现在很多跨平台的
: mobile app的开发也依靠JS, 所以你再悲愤也没有用了。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

147

Facebook switch from HTML to native, on mobile platforms only. The day
Facebook switch html to silverlight on their website, then they are really
dead.
Dart or TypeScript, they all compile to JS, not Silverlight, simple as that.
You can argue all day but you can't save your dead SL.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: 事实 is WebOS is DEAD. Facebook switches away from HTML to native
: b/c JS is not fast enough. Google works on a JS replacement. MS has
: to provide a TypeScript to make it suck less.
: The sole reason JS could "dominate" is simply b/c there's no other
: alternative to it in the web world, and don't count on that. Should
: there be a better option JS will be abandoned, and you know it.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

148

You can put lipstick on that JS pig but it's still a pig. Dart is
compiled down to JS only as a TEMPORARILY makeshift arrangement.
The end goal is having own runtime to speed Dart code up.
SL is good enough to be chosen as the framework for mobile devices
while your HTML/JS is abandoned by its most vocal supporters (FB &
Google). Case is closed which is better.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Facebook switch from HTML to native, on mobile platforms only. The day
: Facebook switch html to silverlight on their website, then they are really
: dead.
: Dart or TypeScript, they all compile to JS, not Silverlight, simple as that.
: You can argue all day but you can't save your dead SL.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

149

LOL, get a real life. Google can't convince M$ and Apple to use Dart in
their browsers and it's going nowhere.
SL is used on 0.3% of total websites and it's be deprecated in wp8 too. You
don't want to wake up in your wet dream but SL is dead. This is a dotnet
forum yet nobody is agreeing with you, you are simply pathetic.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: You can put lipstick on that JS pig but it's still a pig. Dart is
: compiled down to JS only as a TEMPORARILY makeshift arrangement.
: The end goal is having own runtime to speed Dart code up.
: SL is good enough to be chosen as the framework for mobile devices
: while your HTML/JS is abandoned by its most vocal supporters (FB &
: Google). Case is closed which is better.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

150

LOL, I could care less if Google Dart goes nowhere b/c it only means
JS will continue to drag HTML down and I have no problem with that.
As for SL, every real .Net developer here agrees SL is much better,
and it shows by now underpinning the Win8 METRO engine. It's only
fools like you in such denial that you call these dumb page websites
as rich apps to prove that HTML/JS is up to the task. What a joke.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: LOL, get a real life. Google can't convince M$ and Apple to use Dart in
: their browsers and it's going nowhere.
: SL is used on 0.3% of total websites and it's be deprecated in wp8 too. You
: don't want to wake up in your wet dream but SL is dead. This is a dotnet
: forum yet nobody is agreeing with you, you are simply pathetic.

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进入DotNet版参与讨论

r****y
发帖数: 26819

151

语言都是圣战，比的就是人气。JS确实不能算个好语言，设计只花了好像两周。但是一
旦推出去了就没法去掉原来的问题了，只能加新的功能。所以现在只用Good Part。
http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/12/javascript-tops-latest-program
-popularity-ranking-from-redmonk/
Dart的问题就是一家之言，不容易流行。如果真能流行起来，所有浏览器和平台都带了
，就用Dart不是问题。比起SL来，大概没有谁一定要固守和信仰JS的。微软都兼容跨平
台的语言了，咱们还容不下换不了么。都是随项目转，让用啥就用啥，client side流行
啥用啥，几年下来大都能接触到。只有自己擅长不擅长的，没有绝对好和坏的工具。
老说Dart，NeverLearn你在工作项目里用过Dart么？别说Dart了，微软的TypeScript，
你在工作项目里用过吗？

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: LOL, I could care less if Google Dart goes nowhere b/c it only means
: JS will continue to drag HTML down and I have no problem with that.
: As for SL, every real .Net developer here agrees SL is much better,
: and it shows by now underpinning the Win8 METRO engine. It's only
: fools like you in such denial that you call these dumb page websites
: as rich apps to prove that HTML/JS is up to the task. What a joke.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

152

他除了silverlight，啥都不会。js对他难度太高，眼看就失业了。

流行

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 语言都是圣战，比的就是人气。JS确实不能算个好语言，设计只花了好像两周。但是一
: 旦推出去了就没法去掉原来的问题了，只能加新的功能。所以现在只用Good Part。
: http://techcrunch.com/2012/09/12/javascript-tops-latest-program
: -popularity-ranking-from-redmonk/
: Dart的问题就是一家之言，不容易流行。如果真能流行起来，所有浏览器和平台都带了
: ，就用Dart不是问题。比起SL来，大概没有谁一定要固守和信仰JS的。微软都兼容跨平
: 台的语言了，咱们还容不下换不了么。都是随项目转，让用啥就用啥，client side流行
: 啥用啥，几年下来大都能接触到。只有自己擅长不擅长的，没有绝对好和坏的工具。
: 老说Dart，NeverLearn你在工作项目里用过Dart么？别说Dart了，微软的TypeScript，
: 你在工作项目里用过吗？

r****y
发帖数: 26819

153

说真的挺羡慕只认准一个平台一个语言的人，有幸福的从一而终的归属感。不像其它人
是市场决定论，流行什么用什么，需要什么用什么，技术趋势往哪边倒就跟着往哪边倒
。
特别，是在微软这样一个三年两头推倒一片程序员社区的公司。能这么坚定地热爱Silv
erLight，抱柱之信，山无棱天地合乃敢与君绝，实在难得。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

154

因为它是微软的。微软要是倒了.Net也就废了。

Silv

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 说真的挺羡慕只认准一个平台一个语言的人，有幸福的从一而终的归属感。不像其它人
: 是市场决定论，流行什么用什么，需要什么用什么，技术趋势往哪边倒就跟着往哪边倒
: 。
: 特别，是在微软这样一个三年两头推倒一片程序员社区的公司。能这么坚定地热爱Silv
: erLight，抱柱之信，山无棱天地合乃敢与君绝，实在难得。

N********n
发帖数: 8363

155

You really have no shame, do you? Based on all the idiotic HTML
examples you posted during the debate I can easily tell you are
also a JS ignoramus and yet pretend to know sth about it.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: 他除了silverlight，啥都不会。js对他难度太高，眼看就失业了。
:
: 流行

N********n
发帖数: 8363

156

SL skills are easily applicable on the METRO platform so you don't
need "从一而终". Bring your SL skills to METRO, that's it.
It's kinda funny hearing those of you who apparently never coded
any METRO constantly telling those who did how METRO is no SL.

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

157

Right. Obviously people drew this chart knew nothing about Metro.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: SL skills are easily applicable on the METRO platform so you don't
: need "从一而终". Bring your SL skills to METRO, that's it.
: It's kinda funny hearing those of you who apparently never coded
: any METRO constantly telling those who did how METRO is no SL.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

158

I don't claim being the expert on JS. Then again JS doesn't compete with
what I do for the living. Good luck finding a job with your 0.3% SL
dominance.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

r****y
发帖数: 26819

159

做过SilverLight的那几个id都懒得说这个话题了，哈哈
我也觉得这个话题早就可以休止了。
Goodbug，this is NeverLearn。

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

N********n
发帖数: 8363

160

Then quit talking as if you had a clue what is going on and good
luck fixing that Christmas crash. Apparently you guys were doing
a great job. LOL.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: I don't claim being the expert on JS. Then again JS doesn't compete with
: what I do for the living. Good luck finding a job with your 0.3% SL
: dominance.

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● asp.net咋不用javascript做client-side编程？	● about windows 8
进入DotNet版参与讨论

N********n
发帖数: 8363

161

The chart only shows the entire Win8 desktop market is expanded
for SL developers to work on, So keep masturbating SL skills
being useless if you enjoy being an idiot in denial. LOL

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Right. Obviously people drew this chart knew nothing about Metro.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

162

Right, obviously the entire chart is the SL expanding from the right bottom
corner. SL rules it all. Talk about masturbating and in denial.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: The chart only shows the entire Win8 desktop market is expanded
: for SL developers to work on, So keep masturbating SL skills
: being useless if you enjoy being an idiot in denial. LOL

N********n
发帖数: 8363

163

Too bad that XAML-based architecture ensures smooth transition
from SL to METRO so you'd have to pull your hands outta your pants
on that "SL skill being useless" dream.
Actually leave them in your pants if you wish. I don't care. LOL

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Right, obviously the entire chart is the SL expanding from the right bottom
: corner. SL rules it all. Talk about masturbating and in denial.

t*****s
发帖数: 124

164

什么逆袭了？难道你是指Chrome OS?
Chrome OS和Android不是一个东西

【在 H*******g 的大作中提到】

: 逆袭了啊，但是死的很悲催。

x**n
发帖数: 461

165

existent some?
client side, the performance is just good enough. and more reliable.

【在 k****i 的大作中提到】

l*********s
发帖数: 5409

166

cong!

Silv

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

k****i
发帖数: 1072

167

既然你把它的优点都否决了，说明你并不需要它。但不代表别人不需要。
每种语言/framework都有自己的pros/cons和适用范围. 很多的时候是一种tradeoff.
列一列当初选它的原因，再列一列现在想抛弃它的原因。
另外，好的语言/framework不一定会流行，流行的也并不一定好。这个不用多说了吧。
真是不明白为什么大家这么热衷争论语言/framework的优劣。每一个存在都是合理的。

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】

:
: existent some?
: client side, the performance is just good enough. and more reliable.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

168

Smooth transition. LOL. I heard the same thing when M$ gave VB developers a
stab from behind. Whatever you believe, man, whatever you believe. It's a
religion for you and I am not gonna change you. And talk about Metro is
nonsense as well, how big is WP in terms of market share? Nothing to write
home about.
You see, Sun died and I didn't shed a tear. If M$ died, good luck for you to
find another job. That's why we are fundamentally different when technology
is being discussed.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: Too bad that XAML-based architecture ensures smooth transition
: from SL to METRO so you'd have to pull your hands outta your pants
: on that "SL skill being useless" dream.
: Actually leave them in your pants if you wish. I don't care. LOL

N********n
发帖数: 8363

169

You basically are coding light-weight web apps so you don't really
need a rich framework.
.

【在 x**n 的大作中提到】

:
: existent some?
: client side, the performance is just good enough. and more reliable.

N********n
发帖数: 8363

170

So are you saying Java has no framework changes? What did you tell
AWT developers after "back-stabbing" them with SWING? And what did
you tell SWING developers after "back-stabbing" them with SWT?
Based on your own reasoning, there must be lots of jobless JAVA
developers b/c of the changes. And what about this Spring vs JSF
thing? Which group is jobless now? The list goes on and on. LOL.
See the difference is I make sensible points while you just post
BS. You made up all the "Lync ain't Office", "C++ weakens .Net"
rubbish to show your idiocy, and fired off these stupid "jobless
skill" shots only to land them on your own ass. LOL. What a joke.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: Smooth transition. LOL. I heard the same thing when M$ gave VB developers a
: stab from behind. Whatever you believe, man, whatever you believe. It's a
: religion for you and I am not gonna change you. And talk about Metro is
: nonsense as well, how big is WP in terms of market share? Nothing to write
: home about.
: You see, Sun died and I didn't shed a tear. If M$ died, good luck for you to
: find another job. That's why we are fundamentally different when technology
: is being discussed.

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● about windows 8	● Web application 的现状和.net
● Re: 问一个，WP上的软件是什么写的？ (转载)	● 请教这样的小系统怎么做
● share: 10 skills for developers to focus on in 2013	● SilverLight 3 is ready
进入DotNet版参与讨论

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

171

You still don't see what's wrong here? It's you who can't accept SL's death
because your stupid claim "Silverlight will rule it all" and you just don't
have the courage to say that you were wrong.
AWT is dead, Java Applet is dead. Sure, I moved on and I didn't claim "Java
Applet will rule it all" in the first place. I didn't need to make further
absurd
claim Java Applet is what powers Java world today to save face, like you
insisted. And that's why you are a laughing stock today.
Nobody is perfect, but the ability to admit mistake is basic integrity,
which you are lacking.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: So are you saying Java has no framework changes? What did you tell
: AWT developers after "back-stabbing" them with SWING? And what did
: you tell SWING developers after "back-stabbing" them with SWT?
: Based on your own reasoning, there must be lots of jobless JAVA
: developers b/c of the changes. And what about this Spring vs JSF
: thing? Which group is jobless now? The list goes on and on. LOL.
: See the difference is I make sensible points while you just post
: BS. You made up all the "Lync ain't Office", "C++ weakens .Net"
: rubbish to show your idiocy, and fired off these stupid "jobless

g****r
发帖数: 1589

172

silverlight只是.net的一个很小的尝试了，它死了对.net没有多大影响吧
而且SilverLight是客户端的技术，要对应也对应的是Java的Applet，Java Applet不也
一样半死不活的。Java Spring对应的应该是Asp。net MVC
说白了SilverLight早5年出来，完全有可能beat flash，不过现在Html 5 is coming，
就算微软继续开发这个东西，我也不相信有人愿意投资在这个上面，而且考虑IE的市场
份额每况愈下，tablet现在又风起云涌，插件这种东西没前途啊
C#今年的usuage上升了不少，Java倒下降了一些，做windows上的开发，不管客户端还
是server端，。net还是不二之选吧，除非你想搞垮平台，或者必须用一些Java写的开
源库

【在 B********t 的大作中提到】

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

173

你这个说得没有错。无论是flash, silverlight，java applet，都是要死的。
.Net的前途跟SL关系不大，跟PC和WP的前途关系比较大。

【在 g****r 的大作中提到】

: silverlight只是.net的一个很小的尝试了，它死了对.net没有多大影响吧
: 而且SilverLight是客户端的技术，要对应也对应的是Java的Applet，Java Applet不也
: 一样半死不活的。Java Spring对应的应该是Asp。net MVC
: 说白了SilverLight早5年出来，完全有可能beat flash，不过现在Html 5 is coming，
: 就算微软继续开发这个东西，我也不相信有人愿意投资在这个上面，而且考虑IE的市场
: 份额每况愈下，tablet现在又风起云涌，插件这种东西没前途啊
: C#今年的usuage上升了不少，Java倒下降了一些，做windows上的开发，不管客户端还
: 是server端，。net还是不二之选吧，除非你想搞垮平台，或者必须用一些Java写的开
: 源库

N********n
发帖数: 8363

174

SL is for rich apps and now powers METRO, OK? I never said it is
for thin web pages such as GMail. You are making yourself a fool
calling these pages rich apps and then making a fuss that SL is
not used to code those dumb pages.
I could care less about those thin apps. All rich apps are done
in native regardless what platform it is just like I predicted
long time ago and you are in constant denial.

【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】

: You still don't see what's wrong here? It's you who can't accept SL's death
: because your stupid claim "Silverlight will rule it all" and you just don't
: have the courage to say that you were wrong.
: AWT is dead, Java Applet is dead. Sure, I moved on and I didn't claim "Java
: Applet will rule it all" in the first place. I didn't need to make further
: absurd
: claim Java Applet is what powers Java world today to save face, like you
: insisted. And that's why you are a laughing stock today.
: Nobody is perfect, but the ability to admit mistake is basic integrity,
: which you are lacking.

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

175

LOL, you never learn.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: SL is for rich apps and now powers METRO, OK? I never said it is
: for thin web pages such as GMail. You are making yourself a fool
: calling these pages rich apps and then making a fuss that SL is
: not used to code those dumb pages.
: I could care less about those thin apps. All rich apps are done
: in native regardless what platform it is just like I predicted
: long time ago and you are in constant denial.

x**n
发帖数: 461

176

You just deny most of the ria applications. And i seriously doubt your
definition of rich.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

x**n
发帖数: 461

177

Wrong! I do need it, and i am using it. However it is for a special
application that I have to rely on SL, for most of my applications, no
matter how rich they are, html/javascript is a much better choice.

【在 k****i 的大作中提到】

: 既然你把它的优点都否决了，说明你并不需要它。但不代表别人不需要。
: 每种语言/framework都有自己的pros/cons和适用范围. 很多的时候是一种tradeoff.
: 列一列当初选它的原因，再列一列现在想抛弃它的原因。
: 另外，好的语言/framework不一定会流行，流行的也并不一定好。这个不用多说了吧。
: 真是不明白为什么大家这么热衷争论语言/framework的优劣。每一个存在都是合理的。

d*****n
发帖数: 2132

178

以前我也怎么认为, 现在看到微软又开始推c++,不那么淡定了,什么样的思维的微软人
才能够做出这种决定?

【在 g****r 的大作中提到】

r****y
发帖数: 26819

179

第一这也是有影子的：objC。第二显然是把重心向平板和移动转移的表现。

【在 d*****n 的大作中提到】

: 以前我也怎么认为, 现在看到微软又开始推c++,不那么淡定了,什么样的思维的微软人
: 才能够做出这种决定?

d*****n
发帖数: 2132

180

苹果用c,微软就要跟进啊?移动和平板c++有什么优势啊。

【在 r****y 的大作中提到】

: 第一这也是有影子的：objC。第二显然是把重心向平板和移动转移的表现。

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N********n
发帖数: 8363

181

C++ is gaming development. Most people code normal apps in C#.

【在 d*****n 的大作中提到】

: 苹果用c,微软就要跟进啊?移动和平板c++有什么优势啊。

r****y
发帖数: 26819

182

不是微软跟进，还是平台自然选择。
速度快，用户体验好。

【在 d*****n 的大作中提到】

: 苹果用c,微软就要跟进啊?移动和平板c++有什么优势啊。

g*****g
发帖数: 34805

183

You mean those apps with dumb text and image that don't need "RICH"
experience ?
LOL. Sure, but they are getting converted to web app/mobile app if not
already done.

【在 N********n 的大作中提到】

:
: C++ is gaming development. Most people code normal apps in C#.

g****r
发帖数: 1589

184

怎么推C++了？Win RT？

【在 d*****n 的大作中提到】

: 以前我也怎么认为, 现在看到微软又开始推c++,不那么淡定了,什么样的思维的微软人
: 才能够做出这种决定?

(共1页)

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