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EE版 - WiMax 是不是死了 ?
相关主题
802.11的MAC是否对packet loss之后都会double backoff window?向专家请教LTE, HSPA+的速度
哪个方向好?谢谢Field Application Engineer immediate openning in WiMAX/LTE
LTE vs. WiMax, which will win ?Clear的4G有前途吗?
Wimax 和 LTE的主要区别是什么?Summer intern needed for LTE-A system level simulation (转载)
iphone是用什么公司的chipsets?硅工们,这个Sequans(SQNS)听说过吗 (转载)
大家觉得LTE有前途吗?EE offer 求教!急!
无线,网络,Dsp...迷茫中...求指教..网络这几个方向,选哪个好?
无线网络(GSM,GPRS)这些领域还好找工作吗?请教SONET/SDH 与OTN是啥关系?
相关话题的讨论汇总
话题: wifi话题: 3g话题: wimax话题: 4g话题: lte
进入EE版参与讨论
1 (共1页)
d**s
发帖数: 920
1
这里牛人多, 向大家请教一下, WiMax 是不是死了 ?
Why is LTE better than WiMax ?
h***s
发帖数: 226
2
完全死了还难说。
但不成气候主要是因为运营商不支持,因为运营商想保护以往的投资和资源,这样向
LTE转化似乎更直接一些,WIMAX需要的是对运营商进行革命,剥夺自己已有的地位是谁
也不会干的事情。
k*******d
发帖数: 1340
3
恩,同意楼上的
WiMax在技术上甚至是比LTE要成熟,LTE毕竟还没有finalize. 但是那些运营商有了
licenced的频段,就倾向于用LTE了
现在金融危机又导致产商很保守,不愿意deploy WiMax,这样,就给LTE时间和机会了
估计LTE还是得占上峰
f**h
发帖数: 1149
4
WiMax估计在某些部分做补充吧,它家开始就是这种定位,只是后来信心膨胀,想革电
信的命,现在不过是又打回原形而已
k*******d
发帖数: 1340
5
加了mobile的feature,想和celluar system 抢饭吃
S*******p
发帖数: 261
6
wimax 的设计没有3GPP的严谨,毕竟3GPP里面全都是无线通讯的巨头,并且无数参与人
员绞尽脑汁考虑各种情况。没有理由说wimax更成熟。LTE现在已经开始到Rel-10了。
Rel-8今年底明年初verizon, china mobile等等都已经开始试着铺设了。
尽管两种标准技术差不多,但是现在就是靠谁的支持大谁多久胜利。个人觉得wimax没
有什么
出路了。为什么需要他呢?LTE反正可以干它所有的事情,同时还能做他不能的事情,
比如voip,wimax的设计没有考虑最基本的打电话的容量问题。

【在 k*******d 的大作中提到】
: 恩,同意楼上的
: WiMax在技术上甚至是比LTE要成熟,LTE毕竟还没有finalize. 但是那些运营商有了
: licenced的频段,就倾向于用LTE了
: 现在金融危机又导致产商很保守,不愿意deploy WiMax,这样,就给LTE时间和机会了
: 估计LTE还是得占上峰

s********k
发帖数: 6180
7
具体展开说说哪些地方不如LTE严谨?移动性支持不好还是overhead太多?或者是没有
专门针对语音业务设计?

【在 S*******p 的大作中提到】
: wimax 的设计没有3GPP的严谨,毕竟3GPP里面全都是无线通讯的巨头,并且无数参与人
: 员绞尽脑汁考虑各种情况。没有理由说wimax更成熟。LTE现在已经开始到Rel-10了。
: Rel-8今年底明年初verizon, china mobile等等都已经开始试着铺设了。
: 尽管两种标准技术差不多,但是现在就是靠谁的支持大谁多久胜利。个人觉得wimax没
: 有什么
: 出路了。为什么需要他呢?LTE反正可以干它所有的事情,同时还能做他不能的事情,
: 比如voip,wimax的设计没有考虑最基本的打电话的容量问题。

d**s
发帖数: 920
8
Can LTE support real time video ?
in other words, can service provide provide triple play using LTE ?
Thanks.

【在 S*******p 的大作中提到】
: wimax 的设计没有3GPP的严谨,毕竟3GPP里面全都是无线通讯的巨头,并且无数参与人
: 员绞尽脑汁考虑各种情况。没有理由说wimax更成熟。LTE现在已经开始到Rel-10了。
: Rel-8今年底明年初verizon, china mobile等等都已经开始试着铺设了。
: 尽管两种标准技术差不多,但是现在就是靠谁的支持大谁多久胜利。个人觉得wimax没
: 有什么
: 出路了。为什么需要他呢?LTE反正可以干它所有的事情,同时还能做他不能的事情,
: 比如voip,wimax的设计没有考虑最基本的打电话的容量问题。

S*******p
发帖数: 261
9
当然可以。所有类型的服务都有相应的QoS要求。在lte里面,real time video 有相应的
QoS标签告诉layer 2:优先级,延时范围等等。

【在 d**s 的大作中提到】
: Can LTE support real time video ?
: in other words, can service provide provide triple play using LTE ?
: Thanks.

T*******y
发帖数: 6523
10
WiMax 是什么频段呢?

【在 k*******d 的大作中提到】
: 恩,同意楼上的
: WiMax在技术上甚至是比LTE要成熟,LTE毕竟还没有finalize. 但是那些运营商有了
: licenced的频段,就倾向于用LTE了
: 现在金融危机又导致产商很保守,不愿意deploy WiMax,这样,就给LTE时间和机会了
: 估计LTE还是得占上峰

相关主题
大家觉得LTE有前途吗?向专家请教LTE, HSPA+的速度
无线,网络,Dsp...迷茫中...求指教..Field Application Engineer immediate openning in WiMAX/LTE
无线网络(GSM,GPRS)这些领域还好找工作吗?Clear的4G有前途吗?
进入EE版参与讨论
g******s
发帖数: 410
11
WiMax能部署的频段好像很多,可以根据当地的频谱分配调整的。

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: WiMax 是什么频段呢?
T*******y
发帖数: 6523
12
也就是不一定用哪家provider的啰?

【在 g******s 的大作中提到】
: WiMax能部署的频段好像很多,可以根据当地的频谱分配调整的。
g******s
发帖数: 410
13
那也得有政府分配的频谱资源啊。

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: 也就是不一定用哪家provider的啰?
d****g
发帖数: 100
14
It can be 2.5 G, 5 G, even higher.
Whether WiMax or LTE will win depends on the support of those large vendors.
Now there is a company ClearWire has commercial WiMax services, which is
expected to cover most of US cities in the following years. WiMax has
advantages of mature standards, while LTE's standards are 2 years behind
WiMAX. WiMAX is promoted by some big companies like Intel, Google, and
sprint. In asia like Korean, there is also services based on WiMAX. So it is
too early to say who wil

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: WiMax 是什么频段呢?
I*****y
发帖数: 854
15
You may be right back a year ago. However, it is pretty obvious now that
WiMAX will only have a niche place in future 4G systems. Things change
heavily during the past 6 months, Notel is dead now, ALU, Huawei, Moto have
reduced their 16m standardization effort significantly. Intel and Google
have never been big vendors in the mobile area. WiBro in South Korea is a
typical loser example for WiMAX, the South Korea operators have to bind it
to HSPA in order to increase the market share, LOL
The onl

【在 d****g 的大作中提到】
: It can be 2.5 G, 5 G, even higher.
: Whether WiMax or LTE will win depends on the support of those large vendors.
: Now there is a company ClearWire has commercial WiMax services, which is
: expected to cover most of US cities in the following years. WiMax has
: advantages of mature standards, while LTE's standards are 2 years behind
: WiMAX. WiMAX is promoted by some big companies like Intel, Google, and
: sprint. In asia like Korean, there is also services based on WiMAX. So it is
: too early to say who wil

c****n
发帖数: 21367
16
let's change a question.
will 3G/4G be able to work on data services?
Because of the large coverage area of base station, even if 1Gbps
is doubtably achievable, when the users are watching p2p streaming
or downloading movies, problems will arise.
if the users can access WIFI at the same time, what's the incentives
to favor 3G/4G ?

have

【在 I*****y 的大作中提到】
: You may be right back a year ago. However, it is pretty obvious now that
: WiMAX will only have a niche place in future 4G systems. Things change
: heavily during the past 6 months, Notel is dead now, ALU, Huawei, Moto have
: reduced their 16m standardization effort significantly. Intel and Google
: have never been big vendors in the mobile area. WiBro in South Korea is a
: typical loser example for WiMAX, the South Korea operators have to bind it
: to HSPA in order to increase the market share, LOL
: The onl

I*****y
发帖数: 854
17
I believe WiFi and LTE will be complementary in the future, and not too much
direct competition even in the data services as they are targeting
different scenarios and customers.

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: let's change a question.
: will 3G/4G be able to work on data services?
: Because of the large coverage area of base station, even if 1Gbps
: is doubtably achievable, when the users are watching p2p streaming
: or downloading movies, problems will arise.
: if the users can access WIFI at the same time, what's the incentives
: to favor 3G/4G ?
:
: have

d****g
发帖数: 100
18
Maybe you are right that many changes happened in the past 6 months. I guess
paritally due to the slow economy, carriers do not want to invest new
systems, but use their legacy base stations, etc.
However, how would you explain ClearWire? They are still expanding. In your
opinion, you think they would eventually die when other competitors grow?
Interested to hear some input from you as I guess you are in the exact
related areas.

have

【在 I*****y 的大作中提到】
: You may be right back a year ago. However, it is pretty obvious now that
: WiMAX will only have a niche place in future 4G systems. Things change
: heavily during the past 6 months, Notel is dead now, ALU, Huawei, Moto have
: reduced their 16m standardization effort significantly. Intel and Google
: have never been big vendors in the mobile area. WiBro in South Korea is a
: typical loser example for WiMAX, the South Korea operators have to bind it
: to HSPA in order to increase the market share, LOL
: The onl

w***x
发帖数: 21
19
靠,谁死了??!!!

【在 d**s 的大作中提到】
: 这里牛人多, 向大家请教一下, WiMax 是不是死了 ?
: Why is LTE better than WiMax ?

S*******w
发帖数: 24236
20
哈哈

【在 w***x 的大作中提到】
: 靠,谁死了??!!!
相关主题
Summer intern needed for LTE-A system level simulation (转载)网络这几个方向,选哪个好?
硅工们,这个Sequans(SQNS)听说过吗 (转载)请教SONET/SDH 与OTN是啥关系?
EE offer 求教!急!Re: 挑战:Baseband inter-channel interference
进入EE版参与讨论
c****n
发帖数: 21367
21
what will be the typical services runs on 3G/4G mobile comm network?

much

【在 I*****y 的大作中提到】
: I believe WiFi and LTE will be complementary in the future, and not too much
: direct competition even in the data services as they are targeting
: different scenarios and customers.

h******r
发帖数: 71
22
还好id不是UWB, 那真是死定了

【在 w***x 的大作中提到】
: 靠,谁死了??!!!
h******r
发帖数: 71
23
Technologically, WIFI's coverage is limited and not efficient for
metropolitan networks, in which cellular networks such as LTE, WiMAX,...
are still the best choices.
Economically, there is still no a successful business model for pure
wireless data services. For cellular carriers, the margin of voice
services is much higher than data.

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: let's change a question.
: will 3G/4G be able to work on data services?
: Because of the large coverage area of base station, even if 1Gbps
: is doubtably achievable, when the users are watching p2p streaming
: or downloading movies, problems will arise.
: if the users can access WIFI at the same time, what's the incentives
: to favor 3G/4G ?
:
: have

r*****k
发帖数: 1281
24
还有ATM呢

【在 h******r 的大作中提到】
: 还好id不是UWB, 那真是死定了
c****n
发帖数: 21367
25
搜索
阚凯力:运营商推上网本和iPhone等于自杀
大家对这个有何评价?

【在 h******r 的大作中提到】
: Technologically, WIFI's coverage is limited and not efficient for
: metropolitan networks, in which cellular networks such as LTE, WiMAX,...
: are still the best choices.
: Economically, there is still no a successful business model for pure
: wireless data services. For cellular carriers, the margin of voice
: services is much higher than data.

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
26
"if the users can access WIFI...", of course they will switch to WIFI.
But the problem is: WIFI cannot support a Wide Area coverage. This is
totally another question.
Wireless bandwidth is always more expensive than that of wired.

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: let's change a question.
: will 3G/4G be able to work on data services?
: Because of the large coverage area of base station, even if 1Gbps
: is doubtably achievable, when the users are watching p2p streaming
: or downloading movies, problems will arise.
: if the users can access WIFI at the same time, what's the incentives
: to favor 3G/4G ?
:
: have

h******r
发帖数: 71
27
没有这么悲观。有语音至少能赚钱。做数据,运营商要在广告和网上购物下功夫。

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: 搜索
: 阚凯力:运营商推上网本和iPhone等于自杀
: 大家对这个有何评价?

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
28
live video, web, p2p video telephone, file downloading, hi-definition audio,
etc.

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: what will be the typical services runs on 3G/4G mobile comm network?
:
: much

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
29
hehe, my humble comments:
3G根本不可能承担大规模的使用量,大量使用,带宽就会拥堵,更不要说现在推的上网
本、数据卡,这是要3G的命。
This is simply a question of bandwidth/user proportion problem. If this
professor can say it to 3G, I can also say it to 2G, 1G, WIFI, and whatever
bandwidth-limited network services. lol.
三个3G运营商资费都偏高,只能讲是不得已而为之。因为用户一多,3G的网络不可能支
撑这么多用户,所以必须资费要高,把大部分用户拦在外面不要用;所以3G现在都变成
你可以买得起,但是你用不起,资费绝对要高。资费不高,大家一用,整个系统瘫痪,
这是必然的结果。
Does he know in some countries, 3G HSPA is already used by many families
to replace cable ADS

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: 搜索
: 阚凯力:运营商推上网本和iPhone等于自杀
: 大家对这个有何评价?

c****n
发帖数: 21367
30
i guess this answers my question well
WIFI will cover the dense populated area and 3G/4G will be
complementary in mobile scenarios or remote areas such as hill top.
let's wait and see.

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: "if the users can access WIFI...", of course they will switch to WIFI.
: But the problem is: WIFI cannot support a Wide Area coverage. This is
: totally another question.
: Wireless bandwidth is always more expensive than that of wired.

相关主题
做WiMAX的在美国就业形势怎么样呢?有前途吗?不说什么大公司了,温饱就行哪个方向好?谢谢
做WiMAX的在美国就业形势怎么样呢?有前途吗?不说什么大公司了,温饱就行LTE vs. WiMax, which will win ?
802.11的MAC是否对packet loss之后都会double backoff window?Wimax 和 LTE的主要区别是什么?
进入EE版参与讨论
c****n
发帖数: 21367
31
very true, WIFI might not have a business model because its
bandwidth is free. however, if the free connections are widely
available, there is hardly any business model for fee-ed
services with less bandwidth.
this is why i ask the original question, what are the typical
services for 3G/4G?

this
whatever

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: hehe, my humble comments:
: 3G根本不可能承担大规模的使用量,大量使用,带宽就会拥堵,更不要说现在推的上网
: 本、数据卡,这是要3G的命。
: This is simply a question of bandwidth/user proportion problem. If this
: professor can say it to 3G, I can also say it to 2G, 1G, WIFI, and whatever
: bandwidth-limited network services. lol.
: 三个3G运营商资费都偏高,只能讲是不得已而为之。因为用户一多,3G的网络不可能支
: 撑这么多用户,所以必须资费要高,把大部分用户拦在外面不要用;所以3G现在都变成
: 你可以买得起,但是你用不起,资费绝对要高。资费不高,大家一用,整个系统瘫痪,
: 这是必然的结果。

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
32
"WIFI will cover the dense populated area and 3G/4G will
be complementary..."
I doubt it. I think WiFi is complementary of 3/4G, because:
1. WiFi has no support to roaming. You may have your WiFi at home,
or office, that is the boundary of it. You don't want others
to share your resource, and so do the others. The result is:
there may be WiFi every, but each user can access only his/her
own.
2. Even if there is an operator who offers WiFi service to
public. The same as cellular, some places some

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: i guess this answers my question well
: WIFI will cover the dense populated area and 3G/4G will be
: complementary in mobile scenarios or remote areas such as hill top.
: let's wait and see.

c****n
发帖数: 21367
33

besides my home and office, where do i need data service?
that is why I keep asking "what's the typical service 3G/4G
can provide"
jamming is ok. nowadays in a research building one usually can
see 10+ AP in range, the network performance is still acceptable.
why we need WiFi everywhere...

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: "WIFI will cover the dense populated area and 3G/4G will
: be complementary..."
: I doubt it. I think WiFi is complementary of 3/4G, because:
: 1. WiFi has no support to roaming. You may have your WiFi at home,
: or office, that is the boundary of it. You don't want others
: to share your resource, and so do the others. The result is:
: there may be WiFi every, but each user can access only his/her
: own.
: 2. Even if there is an operator who offers WiFi service to
: public. The same as cellular, some places some

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
34
1. Don't you see many guys on street today taking a minibook?
Maybe you are not one of them, (nor am I), but it
doesn't mean there is no such a requirement.
2. Yes, it ok you place 10+ AP in one building, if that area
is under the control of the network administrator. And remember
that in building the cost of infrastrutre is not very much.
Even in that situation, the locations of APs must be carefully
planned. In a public area if everyone can set AP, it will be
mess.
3. See 1.

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
:
: besides my home and office, where do i need data service?
: that is why I keep asking "what's the typical service 3G/4G
: can provide"
: jamming is ok. nowadays in a research building one usually can
: see 10+ AP in range, the network performance is still acceptable.
: why we need WiFi everywhere...

c****n
发帖数: 21367
35

of course there are demands for 3G/4G... such as kindle
however, is it another Iradium system?
and, what's the previlege for downloading books in mobile networks
over LAN/WLAN ?
when we talk about "typical" service, we mean something that 3G/4G
is specialized for and is widely demanded such as mobile voice
communication.
simple economics tells us, when several public APs are available,
hardly people would have incentive to set up many more private
APs to race for the bandwidth. especially the p

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 1. Don't you see many guys on street today taking a minibook?
: Maybe you are not one of them, (nor am I), but it
: doesn't mean there is no such a requirement.
: 2. Yes, it ok you place 10+ AP in one building, if that area
: is under the control of the network administrator. And remember
: that in building the cost of infrastrutre is not very much.
: Even in that situation, the locations of APs must be carefully
: planned. In a public area if everyone can set AP, it will be
: mess.
: 3. See 1.

s********k
发帖数: 6180
36
语音带宽要求毕竟有限。数据业务一上来带宽可是无止境的,wifi完全可以做成城市区
域内都可以用,比如电信统一部署wifi,然后所有电信用户用户名密码登陆才能用。这
样一般用户在家,办公室,公园,机场都可以登陆了吧。还有一个问题是如果采用现有
的架构,数据业务怎么计费?按照包月的话不适合现有的架构,如果按照流量的话是算
哪个层面的流量?链路层?还是传输层?还是应用层?一个应用层1K的数据到了链路层
恐怕得3K,包括overhead,重传,TCP开销的浪费。这个来算的话怎么计费?

this
whatever

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: hehe, my humble comments:
: 3G根本不可能承担大规模的使用量,大量使用,带宽就会拥堵,更不要说现在推的上网
: 本、数据卡,这是要3G的命。
: This is simply a question of bandwidth/user proportion problem. If this
: professor can say it to 3G, I can also say it to 2G, 1G, WIFI, and whatever
: bandwidth-limited network services. lol.
: 三个3G运营商资费都偏高,只能讲是不得已而为之。因为用户一多,3G的网络不可能支
: 撑这么多用户,所以必须资费要高,把大部分用户拦在外面不要用;所以3G现在都变成
: 你可以买得起,但是你用不起,资费绝对要高。资费不高,大家一用,整个系统瘫痪,
: 这是必然的结果。

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
37
If data service is charged by amount, there is
nothing of "无止境的". Actually I never use wireless link
for bandwidth-eating programs such as BT, emule, even at
home.
Well, "电信统一部署wifi" sounds to me a monopoly concept.
Be aware, WiFi frequency is free. 电信 has no right to this.
Once again, deploying a large-scale WiFi is also very costly.
Please count the bandwidth efficiency by Hz*$/sqm.
The last, WiFi shares frequency with Bluetooth and 802.15.4,
the later two have already a large number of deploy

【在 s********k 的大作中提到】
: 语音带宽要求毕竟有限。数据业务一上来带宽可是无止境的,wifi完全可以做成城市区
: 域内都可以用,比如电信统一部署wifi,然后所有电信用户用户名密码登陆才能用。这
: 样一般用户在家,办公室,公园,机场都可以登陆了吧。还有一个问题是如果采用现有
: 的架构,数据业务怎么计费?按照包月的话不适合现有的架构,如果按照流量的话是算
: 哪个层面的流量?链路层?还是传输层?还是应用层?一个应用层1K的数据到了链路层
: 恐怕得3K,包括overhead,重传,TCP开销的浪费。这个来算的话怎么计费?
:
: this
: whatever

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
38
1. Do you mean iridium system? 3/4G is a continue of 2G,
a PLMN, which was exactly the winner against Iridium.
2. In many european countries, 3G has been already depolyed
and making money. But can you give any example of WiFi
service provider?
3. Why you are keeping asking "typical service" of 3/4G?
a.All the services of current 2G will be migrated to there.
b.See ITU-T UMTS document, you will find them.
4. "when serveral public APs".. You still don't get it:
Why company A can set some so c

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
:
: of course there are demands for 3G/4G... such as kindle
: however, is it another Iradium system?
: and, what's the previlege for downloading books in mobile networks
: over LAN/WLAN ?
: when we talk about "typical" service, we mean something that 3G/4G
: is specialized for and is widely demanded such as mobile voice
: communication.
: simple economics tells us, when several public APs are available,
: hardly people would have incentive to set up many more private

s********k
发帖数: 6180
39
如果按照流量的话是算: 哪个层面的流量?链路层?还是传输层?还是应用层?一个应
用层1K的数据到了链路层: 恐怕得3K,包括overhead,重传,TCP开销的浪费。这个来
算的话怎么计费?
另外一旦按照流量计费,恐怕人人都上网小心翼翼,一旦不能随心所欲,很难说数据业
务能提供什么好的服务。即使有限的数据业务比如查邮件之类的比较好计费的现在EDGE
、GPRS都可以做了。另外虽然2.4G是ISM频段,但是wifi也还有其他频段可以选择啊。
即使是开放频段,也没有任何法规规定不能部署吧。802.11和802.15.4毕竟不一样,15
.4的数据量很小,而且都是局部使用,应该不会影响到wifi。

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: If data service is charged by amount, there is
: nothing of "无止境的". Actually I never use wireless link
: for bandwidth-eating programs such as BT, emule, even at
: home.
: Well, "电信统一部署wifi" sounds to me a monopoly concept.
: Be aware, WiFi frequency is free. 电信 has no right to this.
: Once again, deploying a large-scale WiFi is also very costly.
: Please count the bandwidth efficiency by Hz*$/sqm.
: The last, WiFi shares frequency with Bluetooth and 802.15.4,
: the later two have already a large number of deploy

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
40
这流量计算是个问题?现在那些gprs数据业务的流量是怎么算的3g就
怎么算。3g的core network用的就是gprs,一点没变。
按流量计算的业务已经有不少了,凭什么到3g这儿就是问题呢?
如果这也算问题,难道wifi就没有这问题?
wifi的其它频段也是ism的,就算没有bt,15.4这些competetor,我说
了:凭什么A公司可以拿这个赚钱,B公司就不行?凭什么公共频段他们
可以拿去赚钱?

EDGE
15

【在 s********k 的大作中提到】
: 如果按照流量的话是算: 哪个层面的流量?链路层?还是传输层?还是应用层?一个应
: 用层1K的数据到了链路层: 恐怕得3K,包括overhead,重传,TCP开销的浪费。这个来
: 算的话怎么计费?
: 另外一旦按照流量计费,恐怕人人都上网小心翼翼,一旦不能随心所欲,很难说数据业
: 务能提供什么好的服务。即使有限的数据业务比如查邮件之类的比较好计费的现在EDGE
: 、GPRS都可以做了。另外虽然2.4G是ISM频段,但是wifi也还有其他频段可以选择啊。
: 即使是开放频段,也没有任何法规规定不能部署吧。802.11和802.15.4毕竟不一样,15
: .4的数据量很小,而且都是局部使用,应该不会影响到wifi。

相关主题
Wimax 和 LTE的主要区别是什么?无线,网络,Dsp...迷茫中...求指教..
iphone是用什么公司的chipsets?无线网络(GSM,GPRS)这些领域还好找工作吗?
大家觉得LTE有前途吗?向专家请教LTE, HSPA+的速度
进入EE版参与讨论
c****n
发帖数: 21367
41
it is not necessary to organize and operate WiFi as mobile
communications. airport wireless / starbucks / barnes and noble
is a typical way for paid WiFi access; public WiFi can be seen
in many coffee stores. It is not difficult to spread
APs with connection bandwidth limit for free, just like
build roads for the public. ISPs are very nervous and
lobbying against this idea. (I vaguely remember that a bill
is passed to ban the government from using tax money to provide
free public WiFi.)
Back to

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 1. Do you mean iridium system? 3/4G is a continue of 2G,
: a PLMN, which was exactly the winner against Iridium.
: 2. In many european countries, 3G has been already depolyed
: and making money. But can you give any example of WiFi
: service provider?
: 3. Why you are keeping asking "typical service" of 3/4G?
: a.All the services of current 2G will be migrated to there.
: b.See ITU-T UMTS document, you will find them.
: 4. "when serveral public APs".. You still don't get it:
: Why company A can set some so c

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
42
sorry if you felt my words contained emotions...
If you do think that WiFi will be only deployed in those certain
places, then I'd like to say that WiFi is a complementary of
cellular. We do need a network that can be accessed any place,
any time.
"It is not difficult to spread APs...": this is totally wrong.
Spreading WiFi to cover a wide area is more difficult and
costly than you image. Even constructing such a network
covering a large campus area is a challenging work.
I do think that ban is

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: it is not necessary to organize and operate WiFi as mobile
: communications. airport wireless / starbucks / barnes and noble
: is a typical way for paid WiFi access; public WiFi can be seen
: in many coffee stores. It is not difficult to spread
: APs with connection bandwidth limit for free, just like
: build roads for the public. ISPs are very nervous and
: lobbying against this idea. (I vaguely remember that a bill
: is passed to ban the government from using tax money to provide
: free public WiFi.)
: Back to

s********k
发帖数: 6180
43
关于这个流量计费,我比较好奇,比如我打开一个网站,上面大量的图片,广告,弹出
窗口根本是我不需要的,这样的话我得到有效信息所花费的流量会很大。对于客户来说
必然不满意为什么用了这么多流量确得到这么少的信息。比如我刚开打开一个网页,只
打开一半TCP链接就断掉了,然后重新刷新,这样的话是不是要算两次流量?毕竟3G希
望互联网体验和GPRS还是不一样的。另外wifi的本质我觉得不仅仅是无线接入,而是背
后已有的固网设施。比如中国电信,中国移动都可以上WIFI,但是明显电信可以立刻有
赚钱的手段,移动确根本不现实,因为移动没有电信这样的已有核心固网支持。所以我
觉得拿着这个公共频段也不是什么人都能赚钱的。没有背后的固网核心网的支持,wifi
根本没法部署

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 这流量计算是个问题?现在那些gprs数据业务的流量是怎么算的3g就
: 怎么算。3g的core network用的就是gprs,一点没变。
: 按流量计算的业务已经有不少了,凭什么到3g这儿就是问题呢?
: 如果这也算问题,难道wifi就没有这问题?
: wifi的其它频段也是ism的,就算没有bt,15.4这些competetor,我说
: 了:凭什么A公司可以拿这个赚钱,B公司就不行?凭什么公共频段他们
: 可以拿去赚钱?
:
: EDGE
: 15

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
44
关于网页垃圾,很遗憾,你要上那个网站是你自己的选择。任何一个
service provider算流量的时候都不会把这个剔出去。
TCP断开重连的流量我估计也是算的。不过我认为这个不会经常发生。
如果经常发生,3G技术就是不成熟的。
移动也是有固网的,基本上所有的市内基站都是用光缆连的。而且密度
也很高。电信通缆通电的,一般一个小区也只有一个集线箱。不管怎样,
不能说电信有先天优势所以wifi服务就该让他们搞,没这个道理。他们
把优势搞烂了也不是不可能。难道我就不能白手起家提供更好的服务?

wifi

【在 s********k 的大作中提到】
: 关于这个流量计费,我比较好奇,比如我打开一个网站,上面大量的图片,广告,弹出
: 窗口根本是我不需要的,这样的话我得到有效信息所花费的流量会很大。对于客户来说
: 必然不满意为什么用了这么多流量确得到这么少的信息。比如我刚开打开一个网页,只
: 打开一半TCP链接就断掉了,然后重新刷新,这样的话是不是要算两次流量?毕竟3G希
: 望互联网体验和GPRS还是不一样的。另外wifi的本质我觉得不仅仅是无线接入,而是背
: 后已有的固网设施。比如中国电信,中国移动都可以上WIFI,但是明显电信可以立刻有
: 赚钱的手段,移动确根本不现实,因为移动没有电信这样的已有核心固网支持。所以我
: 觉得拿着这个公共频段也不是什么人都能赚钱的。没有背后的固网核心网的支持,wifi
: 根本没法部署

s********k
发帖数: 6180
45
移动当然可以白手起家,关键是移动固网和电信网络是基本两种不同的网络,比如TCP
断开重连的流量,你3G的无线接入做的再好,这个TCP断开也可能发生在核心网,比如
服务器拥塞之类的。跟3G接入无关,这个时候你是算流量还是不算流量。我觉得这个不
仅仅是个流量问题,而是电信网络和互联网本质上的区别。3G想用自己完全可靠的,服
务质量很高的接入网去连接IP的internet。但是用户为了这个高质量,高可靠性的网络
付出了很大代价,得到的服务质量还是普通的互联网服务,这样的互联网服务我用wifi
一样可以做到,并且成本低的多。好比我花了5-10倍的价格,得到的服务好了不到10%。

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 关于网页垃圾,很遗憾,你要上那个网站是你自己的选择。任何一个
: service provider算流量的时候都不会把这个剔出去。
: TCP断开重连的流量我估计也是算的。不过我认为这个不会经常发生。
: 如果经常发生,3G技术就是不成熟的。
: 移动也是有固网的,基本上所有的市内基站都是用光缆连的。而且密度
: 也很高。电信通缆通电的,一般一个小区也只有一个集线箱。不管怎样,
: 不能说电信有先天优势所以wifi服务就该让他们搞,没这个道理。他们
: 把优势搞烂了也不是不可能。难道我就不能白手起家提供更好的服务?
:
: wifi

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
46
gsm core network has not differece from PSTN core network: they are
both SONET/SDH fiber networks with routers/switches.
I don't think cellular core network is more volunerable than
that of PSTN, if you have any statistics, I'd like to read.
My question is still there: why public WiFi service operation
must be given to 电信?
Another question just came out: Can I simply set up a WIFI ad-hoc
network in public area with my colleagues or friends?

TCP
wifi
%。

【在 s********k 的大作中提到】
: 移动当然可以白手起家,关键是移动固网和电信网络是基本两种不同的网络,比如TCP
: 断开重连的流量,你3G的无线接入做的再好,这个TCP断开也可能发生在核心网,比如
: 服务器拥塞之类的。跟3G接入无关,这个时候你是算流量还是不算流量。我觉得这个不
: 仅仅是个流量问题,而是电信网络和互联网本质上的区别。3G想用自己完全可靠的,服
: 务质量很高的接入网去连接IP的internet。但是用户为了这个高质量,高可靠性的网络
: 付出了很大代价,得到的服务质量还是普通的互联网服务,这样的互联网服务我用wifi
: 一样可以做到,并且成本低的多。好比我花了5-10倍的价格,得到的服务好了不到10%。

s********k
发帖数: 6180
47
GSM和PSTN跟现在的internet还是本质不同,GSM和PSTN核心网不是用的internet的TCP/
IP架构,现在移动网才在向全IP方向转,而且远没有完成。移动当然也可以部署wifi,
但是成本比电信高多了,移动没有电信这样家家入户adsl的网络基础。wifi的部署如果
按照像BS那样部署岂不是浪费太大。而电信只需要加wireless router就可以了。再说
移动赚钱的经验都是按流量,按时间收费,像电信这样的包月收费从网络架构,计费软
件,市场策略,客户关系等等都不一样,转行不是那么容易把。你说的ad hoc的wifi肯
定是可以,但是效率太低。multihop下资源利用率非常不理想。

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: gsm core network has not differece from PSTN core network: they are
: both SONET/SDH fiber networks with routers/switches.
: I don't think cellular core network is more volunerable than
: that of PSTN, if you have any statistics, I'd like to read.
: My question is still there: why public WiFi service operation
: must be given to 电信?
: Another question just came out: Can I simply set up a WIFI ad-hoc
: network in public area with my colleagues or friends?
:
: TCP

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
48
而电信只需要加wireless router就可以了。
no, you need infrastructure to follow your APs. ADSL to home
is NOT infrastructure.
唉,咋说话这么难被理解呢?呵呵。
现在的问题不是我的adhoc效率问题:你电信monopoly把性巴克占了,我
根本就不能用,或者我的ad hoc信号把电信wifi信号给屏了,这怎么办?
说来说去,wifi到现在连一个成功的商业案例都没有,我看还是算了吧。

TCP/

【在 s********k 的大作中提到】
: GSM和PSTN跟现在的internet还是本质不同,GSM和PSTN核心网不是用的internet的TCP/
: IP架构,现在移动网才在向全IP方向转,而且远没有完成。移动当然也可以部署wifi,
: 但是成本比电信高多了,移动没有电信这样家家入户adsl的网络基础。wifi的部署如果
: 按照像BS那样部署岂不是浪费太大。而电信只需要加wireless router就可以了。再说
: 移动赚钱的经验都是按流量,按时间收费,像电信这样的包月收费从网络架构,计费软
: 件,市场策略,客户关系等等都不一样,转行不是那么容易把。你说的ad hoc的wifi肯
: 定是可以,但是效率太低。multihop下资源利用率非常不理想。

s********k
发帖数: 6180
49
wifi怎么会没有成功案例,现在大量的家庭,办公室用wifi难道不是wifi成功案例。再
说电信也不可能有monopoly占领,大家都是开放架构,MAC竞争信道。现在大量应用的
wifi不都是大家竞争吗?在家,在办公室照样用的好好的。你可以说wifi的信道利用率
不如3G。不过802.11n的PHY速率已经到110M了。即便是现在的11g54M就算上层开销,上
网看视频,用p2p根本没问题。而且包月随便用。如果移动3G能够同样资费情况下提供
这样的internet服务我当然选移动,不过如果一个月我天天上网还担心流量,大概花了
10倍以上的价格就是为了得到能在车里移动过程中仍然能看视频,我觉得我还是会用
wifi。

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 而电信只需要加wireless router就可以了。
: no, you need infrastructure to follow your APs. ADSL to home
: is NOT infrastructure.
: 唉,咋说话这么难被理解呢?呵呵。
: 现在的问题不是我的adhoc效率问题:你电信monopoly把性巴克占了,我
: 根本就不能用,或者我的ad hoc信号把电信wifi信号给屏了,这怎么办?
: 说来说去,wifi到现在连一个成功的商业案例都没有,我看还是算了吧。
:
: TCP/

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
50
家庭,office那种不叫商业模式。
现在哪有商业竞争wifi?你上一个就是monopoly的。
另外,你这54兆110兆是共享带宽,terminal一多你也挂了。
hspa单用户理论速率也可以到50M。

【在 s********k 的大作中提到】
: wifi怎么会没有成功案例,现在大量的家庭,办公室用wifi难道不是wifi成功案例。再
: 说电信也不可能有monopoly占领,大家都是开放架构,MAC竞争信道。现在大量应用的
: wifi不都是大家竞争吗?在家,在办公室照样用的好好的。你可以说wifi的信道利用率
: 不如3G。不过802.11n的PHY速率已经到110M了。即便是现在的11g54M就算上层开销,上
: 网看视频,用p2p根本没问题。而且包月随便用。如果移动3G能够同样资费情况下提供
: 这样的internet服务我当然选移动,不过如果一个月我天天上网还担心流量,大概花了
: 10倍以上的价格就是为了得到能在车里移动过程中仍然能看视频,我觉得我还是会用
: wifi。

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s********k
发帖数: 6180
51
wifi也就是最多10来个用户共享一个AP,3G至少几百用户共享一个BS,单个用户能使用
的频带少太多,小区分裂能使得单个BS支持的用户数下降导致单个用户频带上升,但是
小区也不能无限分裂下去。说到商业的wifi,美国很多机场就有提供,一个月包月好像
9.9可以在大部分机场接入wifi,无限制。wifi最大的问题还是在于用的ISM频段,不过
要是这个架构被证明可以大规模商业化,我看未必不能搞一个license频段的wifi出来。

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 家庭,office那种不叫商业模式。
: 现在哪有商业竞争wifi?你上一个就是monopoly的。
: 另外,你这54兆110兆是共享带宽,terminal一多你也挂了。
: hspa单用户理论速率也可以到50M。

c****n
发帖数: 21367
52
your words are always information rich and insightful :)
WiFi needs not to cover "a wide area". We only need WiFi
in office building, in home and in public places where people
do not mobile (such as in airport, book store, coffee shop, etc)
I completely agree that if we need WiFi to replace GSM networks,
the technical difficulty is immense, if not impossible. However,
WiFi occupies those places where data services are most likely
to be demanded, the incentive to go for 3G/4G is naturally weakene

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: sorry if you felt my words contained emotions...
: If you do think that WiFi will be only deployed in those certain
: places, then I'd like to say that WiFi is a complementary of
: cellular. We do need a network that can be accessed any place,
: any time.
: "It is not difficult to spread APs...": this is totally wrong.
: Spreading WiFi to cover a wide area is more difficult and
: costly than you image. Even constructing such a network
: covering a large campus area is a challenging work.
: I do think that ban is

c****n
发帖数: 21367
53
WiFi为啥要“商业模式”呢... 就好比国家修公路,不是每个人都跑
长途的,但是大头总是用财政税收的钱吧。Internet也不是每个人都用的,
更不可能每个人用得一样多,不也是包月收费的?
另外,你这么说带宽是属于抬杠 :)
我们比较接入方式,WiFi相当于“电缆分复用”然后最后50米左右
才开始无线接入,而基站无论用多么牛的“空/时/频分复用”方式,
带宽都比不过一根根电缆吧。:)

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 家庭,office那种不叫商业模式。
: 现在哪有商业竞争wifi?你上一个就是monopoly的。
: 另外,你这54兆110兆是共享带宽,terminal一多你也挂了。
: hspa单用户理论速率也可以到50M。

h**l
发帖数: 168
54
WiFi occupies those places where data services are most likely
to be demanded, the incentive to go for 3G/4G is naturally weakened.
If outdoor cellular networks can provide the same throughput (or user
experience) as indoor wifi access points, the demand will be there for sure.
People do not extensively use 3G data service due to its cost and
relatively lower performance.
so technology is the bottleneck, not demand from end-users.

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: your words are always information rich and insightful :)
: WiFi needs not to cover "a wide area". We only need WiFi
: in office building, in home and in public places where people
: do not mobile (such as in airport, book store, coffee shop, etc)
: I completely agree that if we need WiFi to replace GSM networks,
: the technical difficulty is immense, if not impossible. However,
: WiFi occupies those places where data services are most likely
: to be demanded, the incentive to go for 3G/4G is naturally weakene

h**l
发帖数: 168
55
Although China telecom may need more upgrades (other than Wifi router) to
support Wifi service, its effort will not be as significant as China mobile.
Regarding the ad-hoc wifi network, where are you going to install the APs?
How do you get backhaul connections for the APs?
Also it is not clear to me how to configure your ad-hoc wifi network to
block China Telecom wifi network. Can you configure your AP to block your
neighbor's AP?

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 而电信只需要加wireless router就可以了。
: no, you need infrastructure to follow your APs. ADSL to home
: is NOT infrastructure.
: 唉,咋说话这么难被理解呢?呵呵。
: 现在的问题不是我的adhoc效率问题:你电信monopoly把性巴克占了,我
: 根本就不能用,或者我的ad hoc信号把电信wifi信号给屏了,这怎么办?
: 说来说去,wifi到现在连一个成功的商业案例都没有,我看还是算了吧。
:
: TCP/

h**l
发帖数: 168
56
I do believe video telephony will be a killer XG application in the future,
as long as satisfactory performance can be provided.
However, current 4G technology (whatever LTE or LTE advanced) can never make
it happen. Reducing cell size is probably the only solution.

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: sorry if you felt my words contained emotions...
: If you do think that WiFi will be only deployed in those certain
: places, then I'd like to say that WiFi is a complementary of
: cellular. We do need a network that can be accessed any place,
: any time.
: "It is not difficult to spread APs...": this is totally wrong.
: Spreading WiFi to cover a wide area is more difficult and
: costly than you image. Even constructing such a network
: covering a large campus area is a challenging work.
: I do think that ban is

h**l
发帖数: 168
57
Why use tax payer's money to build libraries, museums, parks...
Alternatively, public Wifi users can be asked to pay a small fee as well,
then it is not completely free. I do not see why this should be banned.

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: sorry if you felt my words contained emotions...
: If you do think that WiFi will be only deployed in those certain
: places, then I'd like to say that WiFi is a complementary of
: cellular. We do need a network that can be accessed any place,
: any time.
: "It is not difficult to spread APs...": this is totally wrong.
: Spreading WiFi to cover a wide area is more difficult and
: costly than you image. Even constructing such a network
: covering a large campus area is a challenging work.
: I do think that ban is

h**l
发帖数: 168
58
UMB will be an even better pick. :)

【在 h******r 的大作中提到】
: 还好id不是UWB, 那真是死定了
h**l
发帖数: 168
59
Economically, there is still no a successful business model for pure
wireless data services. For cellular carriers, the margin of voice
services is much higher than data.
I do support this argument. Indeed, mobile operators do not have any
motivation to build a wireless data network due to its low margin. LTE would
not be considered by operators had wimax not emerged.

【在 h******r 的大作中提到】
: Technologically, WIFI's coverage is limited and not efficient for
: metropolitan networks, in which cellular networks such as LTE, WiMAX,...
: are still the best choices.
: Economically, there is still no a successful business model for pure
: wireless data services. For cellular carriers, the margin of voice
: services is much higher than data.

h**l
发帖数: 168
60
hehe, my humble comments:
3G根本不可能承担大规模的使用量,大量使用,带宽就会拥堵,更不要说现在推的上网
本、数据卡,这是要3G的命。
This is simply a question of bandwidth/user proportion problem. If this
professor can say it to 3G, I can also say it to 2G, 1G, WIFI, and whatever
bandwidth-limited network services. lol.
I think the underlying assumption is that the average thoughtput per user
will significantly increase as 3G is data centric and more data-hungry
applications will be available to end-users, thus aggravating the problem.
三个3G运营商资费

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: hehe, my humble comments:
: 3G根本不可能承担大规模的使用量,大量使用,带宽就会拥堵,更不要说现在推的上网
: 本、数据卡,这是要3G的命。
: This is simply a question of bandwidth/user proportion problem. If this
: professor can say it to 3G, I can also say it to 2G, 1G, WIFI, and whatever
: bandwidth-limited network services. lol.
: 三个3G运营商资费都偏高,只能讲是不得已而为之。因为用户一多,3G的网络不可能支
: 撑这么多用户,所以必须资费要高,把大部分用户拦在外面不要用;所以3G现在都变成
: 你可以买得起,但是你用不起,资费绝对要高。资费不高,大家一用,整个系统瘫痪,
: 这是必然的结果。

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Re: 挑战:Baseband inter-channel interference802.11的MAC是否对packet loss之后都会double backoff window?
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进入EE版参与讨论
h**l
发帖数: 168
61
Well, "电信统一部署wifi" sounds to me a monopoly concept.
Well, probably it is more appropriate to say that no one has the right to
prevent 电信 from doing so, unless the rule changes.
c****n
发帖数: 21367
62

sure.
so here we have an agreement that current 3G/4G cannot
deliver similar throughput as WiFi, in the places where WiFi
could be easily deployed.
on the other side, i also doubt the demand of 3G/4G privileged
data service when the user is in mobile and facing such a small device...
sorry about my lacking of knowledge on mobile communications,
but I've been puzzled so long about why people are pushing 3G/4G...

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: WiFi occupies those places where data services are most likely
: to be demanded, the incentive to go for 3G/4G is naturally weakened.
: If outdoor cellular networks can provide the same throughput (or user
: experience) as indoor wifi access points, the demand will be there for sure.
: People do not extensively use 3G data service due to its cost and
: relatively lower performance.
: so technology is the bottleneck, not demand from end-users.

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
63
1. An ad-hoc 802.11 doesn't need any AP.
2. If, e.g., an operator offers WiFi access in airport, he needs
to plan his APs into ESS mode and frequency reuse must be carefully
selected. In a certain point a maximum 3 channels can co-exist.
It is very possible I (and you, and he, upto everybody) set up
my WLAN channel the same as the operating channels.
3. Yes, sure I can. It is possible that multiple APs share the same
channel. But bandwidth is proportionally reduced, if they all follow
802.11 MAC

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: Although China telecom may need more upgrades (other than Wifi router) to
: support Wifi service, its effort will not be as significant as China mobile.
: Regarding the ad-hoc wifi network, where are you going to install the APs?
: How do you get backhaul connections for the APs?
: Also it is not clear to me how to configure your ad-hoc wifi network to
: block China Telecom wifi network. Can you configure your AP to block your
: neighbor's AP?

h**l
发帖数: 168
64

Femtocell (a.k.a. HeNB) could provide similar service as Wifi, but
interference problem has not been properly solved yet.
Actually smart phones may not be the major end-user device for 4G. The trend
is to use Laptops/netbooks with 3G/4G data cards...
By the way, teenagers/kids may have a completely different view over these
issues.
1) there is real demand if the performance is good enough.
2) emergence of Wifi and Wimax

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
:
: sure.
: so here we have an agreement that current 3G/4G cannot
: deliver similar throughput as WiFi, in the places where WiFi
: could be easily deployed.
: on the other side, i also doubt the demand of 3G/4G privileged
: data service when the user is in mobile and facing such a small device...
: sorry about my lacking of knowledge on mobile communications,
: but I've been puzzled so long about why people are pushing 3G/4G...

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
65
Well, if most people agree...
Anyway, such a government-operated WiFi is not a business. When
it becomes a business. Then the air interface competetion will
become a chaos.

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: Why use tax payer's money to build libraries, museums, parks...
: Alternatively, public Wifi users can be asked to pay a small fee as well,
: then it is not completely free. I do not see why this should be banned.

c****n
发帖数: 21367
66

I've been to a talk given by Padovani. In his description, femtocell
is similar to WiFi bridge + AP... I don't really see the privilege
of this tech...
trend
sure, netbook/laptop can use 3G/4G. still, when you are in a building
and WiFi is available, you might not want to connect to a BS 1km away...
in such a scenario, the premise of 3G/4G is to limit the WiFi access...
what is "good enough"... could you be a little bit more specific?

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
:
: Femtocell (a.k.a. HeNB) could provide similar service as Wifi, but
: interference problem has not been properly solved yet.
: Actually smart phones may not be the major end-user device for 4G. The trend
: is to use Laptops/netbooks with 3G/4G data cards...
: By the way, teenagers/kids may have a completely different view over these
: issues.
: 1) there is real demand if the performance is good enough.
: 2) emergence of Wifi and Wimax

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
67
so, WiMax has finished its historical mission? hehe.
I do think even without Wimax, technology stills advances.
Was there any wimax thing putting cellular from 1G to 2G? :-)

would

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: Economically, there is still no a successful business model for pure
: wireless data services. For cellular carriers, the margin of voice
: services is much higher than data.
: I do support this argument. Indeed, mobile operators do not have any
: motivation to build a wireless data network due to its low margin. LTE would
: not be considered by operators had wimax not emerged.

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
68

whatever

Don't worry, a balance point between cost/bandwidth/charge
will be found.
service
I
Do you understand finnish? Here is one:
http://saunalahti.fi/internet/turbo.php, This is a turbo package 1M/bps
rate 39Euro/month, including 30Mbps ADSL2 home service.
I know most students here have 256kBps at ~10euros.
In Finland, if you have a minibook, a HSPA modem is a must.
上网
能支
变成
痪,

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: hehe, my humble comments:
: 3G根本不可能承担大规模的使用量,大量使用,带宽就会拥堵,更不要说现在推的上网
: 本、数据卡,这是要3G的命。
: This is simply a question of bandwidth/user proportion problem. If this
: professor can say it to 3G, I can also say it to 2G, 1G, WIFI, and whatever
: bandwidth-limited network services. lol.
: I think the underlying assumption is that the average thoughtput per user
: will significantly increase as 3G is data centric and more data-hungry
: applications will be available to end-users, thus aggravating the problem.
: 三个3G运营商资费

h**l
发帖数: 168
69
1. An ad-hoc 802.11 doesn't need any AP.
I see, so you and your friends set up an ad-hoc network in PUBLIC area just
for peer-to-peer communication? Or the real intention is to generate
interfence only?
I can easily set an AP or even a WLAN card and let it keep transmitting all
the time.
I agree that this will generate big trouble to the Wifi network, but someone
needs to take effort for doing so. Also you will not be able to completely
block the existing AP. Not sure if the efforts are worthwhi

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: 1. An ad-hoc 802.11 doesn't need any AP.
: 2. If, e.g., an operator offers WiFi access in airport, he needs
: to plan his APs into ESS mode and frequency reuse must be carefully
: selected. In a certain point a maximum 3 channels can co-exist.
: It is very possible I (and you, and he, upto everybody) set up
: my WLAN channel the same as the operating channels.
: 3. Yes, sure I can. It is possible that multiple APs share the same
: channel. But bandwidth is proportionally reduced, if they all follow
: 802.11 MAC

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
70
So, you will enjoy this monopoly? Basically there is no rule right now
concerning WiFi deployment, where can we see a "change"?

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: 1. An ad-hoc 802.11 doesn't need any AP.
: I see, so you and your friends set up an ad-hoc network in PUBLIC area just
: for peer-to-peer communication? Or the real intention is to generate
: interfence only?
: I can easily set an AP or even a WLAN card and let it keep transmitting all
: the time.
: I agree that this will generate big trouble to the Wifi network, but someone
: needs to take effort for doing so. Also you will not be able to completely
: block the existing AP. Not sure if the efforts are worthwhi

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LTE vs. WiMax, which will win ?大家觉得LTE有前途吗?
Wimax 和 LTE的主要区别是什么?无线,网络,Dsp...迷茫中...求指教..
进入EE版参与讨论
h**l
发帖数: 168
71

1) licensed band, so there will not be any interference or jamming problem
as described by Zhaoyun.
2) No need for dual/multi mode device as femtocell uses the same technology
as the outdoor macro cell.
3) end-user devices will be a lot more power efficient when connecting to a
femtocell.
similar experience as Wifi.

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
:
: I've been to a talk given by Padovani. In his description, femtocell
: is similar to WiFi bridge + AP... I don't really see the privilege
: of this tech...
: trend
: sure, netbook/laptop can use 3G/4G. still, when you are in a building
: and WiFi is available, you might not want to connect to a BS 1km away...
: in such a scenario, the premise of 3G/4G is to limit the WiFi access...
: what is "good enough"... could you be a little bit more specific?

h**l
发帖数: 168
72
I do think even without Wimax, technology stills advances.
Yeah, I agree. But wimax does expedite the transition. Actually meto-wifi
plays a role as well.

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: so, WiMax has finished its historical mission? hehe.
: I do think even without Wimax, technology stills advances.
: Was there any wimax thing putting cellular from 1G to 2G? :-)
:
: would

c****n
发帖数: 21367
73

service interference might disappear, but dedicated jamming is always
feasible.
technology
very true, but the femtocell "bridge" will race for bandwidth.
in WiFi scenario, the link after bridge (AP) is wired...
a
this is an advantage.
this is equivalent to similar experience as cable communication...

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: I do think even without Wimax, technology stills advances.
: Yeah, I agree. But wimax does expedite the transition. Actually meto-wifi
: plays a role as well.

h**l
发帖数: 168
74

Haha, that is why operators maintains a high rate for data applications to
limit the number of subscribers.
Thanks a lot for the info! I cannot read finnish though. :)

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: So, you will enjoy this monopoly? Basically there is no rule right now
: concerning WiFi deployment, where can we see a "change"?

z*****n
发帖数: 7639
75
Is 1Mbps/mon + homeADSL2 @ 39e a high rate?

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
:
: Haha, that is why operators maintains a high rate for data applications to
: limit the number of subscribers.
: Thanks a lot for the info! I cannot read finnish though. :)

h**l
发帖数: 168
76
Yeah, there is no rule, so I think that no one can prevent China Telecom
from Wifi deployment at the moment.
Enjoy it? Well, as a consumer, as long as the rate is lower, I do not mind
if the service provider is a monopoly firm or not.

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: So, you will enjoy this monopoly? Basically there is no rule right now
: concerning WiFi deployment, where can we see a "change"?

c****n
发帖数: 21367
77
how many subscribers are there? avg. per BS?
back to 2003, i explained a fact to the collaborators in Nokia
Finland only have 5 million people, but Shanghai has 15 million +

to

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: Is 1Mbps/mon + homeADSL2 @ 39e a high rate?
h**l
发帖数: 168
78
no, this is not high at all. Very reasonable price.
but is it really for both home access and mobile access (include both voice
and data)? sounds too good to be true. How can opeators make money then?

【在 z*****n 的大作中提到】
: Is 1Mbps/mon + homeADSL2 @ 39e a high rate?
c****n
发帖数: 21367
79
well, this is not a problem if they can reasonably reduce
the billing cost
average monthly communication operation cost for U.S. landline user
is less than 30 cents, the majority part of total cost is the
billing system, e.g. count how many minutes they use, where they
call, etc.

voice

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: no, this is not high at all. Very reasonable price.
: but is it really for both home access and mobile access (include both voice
: and data)? sounds too good to be true. How can opeators make money then?

h**l
发帖数: 168
80

It is against the law to introduce jamming to licensed band. I do not think
there is such a regulation for unlicensed band so long as the maximum
transmission power is under a pre-defined limit.
You are talking about relay node, not femtocell. Femtocell backhaul is the
same as Wifi backhaul, either DSL or cable.
well, maybe to have similar experience as Wifi is a too ambitious goal,
considering the fact that Wifi is also increasing its speed. Probably
hundreds k is good "enough"? I am not rea

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: well, this is not a problem if they can reasonably reduce
: the billing cost
: average monthly communication operation cost for U.S. landline user
: is less than 30 cents, the majority part of total cost is the
: billing system, e.g. count how many minutes they use, where they
: call, etc.
:
: voice

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进入EE版参与讨论
c****n
发帖数: 21367
81

think
come on... use other's wlan without permission is 2nd degree felony...
no way to trace someone who put a jamming device out there...
maybe I am wrong. but what's the difference between femtocell and wifi
then? hey, now i got 6 other AP in range with the same channel, but my
wifi connection is still ok. is interference a problem at all? :)
yeah, if 3G/4G can deliver 100kBps+ to every terminal even
100+ people in a building at the same time, and the cost is similar
to cable, it would be qui

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
:
: It is against the law to introduce jamming to licensed band. I do not think
: there is such a regulation for unlicensed band so long as the maximum
: transmission power is under a pre-defined limit.
: You are talking about relay node, not femtocell. Femtocell backhaul is the
: same as Wifi backhaul, either DSL or cable.
: well, maybe to have similar experience as Wifi is a too ambitious goal,
: considering the fact that Wifi is also increasing its speed. Probably
: hundreds k is good "enough"? I am not rea

h**l
发帖数: 168
82
How about the cost to support mobile services?

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: well, this is not a problem if they can reasonably reduce
: the billing cost
: average monthly communication operation cost for U.S. landline user
: is less than 30 cents, the majority part of total cost is the
: billing system, e.g. count how many minutes they use, where they
: call, etc.
:
: voice

c****n
发帖数: 21367
83
not sure, i heard this data (<30cents) from Douglas Comer,
he did say mobile system is a similar case, but not any
number.

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
: How about the cost to support mobile services?
g*g
发帖数: 6908
84
uwb现有实现不成熟,主要问题还是没有killer application.以后作为下一代的蓝牙技
术,也许有戏。但是蓝牙下一步仿佛要基于类似802.11n的技术走,跟踪多的同学来讲讲

【在 h******r 的大作中提到】
: 还好id不是UWB, 那真是死定了
h**l
发帖数: 168
85

no way to find out? I doubt it.
Femtocell uses cellular technologies such as WCDMA, CDMA, LTE, 802.16...
Wifi is based on 802.11
hey, now i got 6 other AP in range with the same channel, but my
802.11 is a lot more immune to interference compared to cellular
technologies, but it is not as spectrum efficient.
Pico cell or femto-mesh should be able to deliver such throughput towards
end-users.

【在 c****n 的大作中提到】
: not sure, i heard this data (<30cents) from Douglas Comer,
: he did say mobile system is a similar case, but not any
: number.

s********k
发帖数: 6180
86
其实本质上说802.11比cellualr更容忍interference还不如说数据业务相比语音业务更
能容忍interference带来的不确定性。语音显然要求的qos和数据业务不是一个级别的。

【在 h**l 的大作中提到】
:
: no way to find out? I doubt it.
: Femtocell uses cellular technologies such as WCDMA, CDMA, LTE, 802.16...
: Wifi is based on 802.11
: hey, now i got 6 other AP in range with the same channel, but my
: 802.11 is a lot more immune to interference compared to cellular
: technologies, but it is not as spectrum efficient.
: Pico cell or femto-mesh should be able to deliver such throughput towards
: end-users.

s******u
发帖数: 234
87
成功的东西 并不一定是因为他技术是最先进的
这个是我家猪头常说的
然后常常拿彩信和短信的例子来教育我
说彩信的技术含量远远超过短信 为啥短信在中国就远远popular与短信
其实我也不懂 猪头常说 我就记住了
还有他常常说的摩托有个啥天上全是卫星的计划,也泡汤了 最后

【在 h***s 的大作中提到】
: 完全死了还难说。
: 但不成气候主要是因为运营商不支持,因为运营商想保护以往的投资和资源,这样向
: LTE转化似乎更直接一些,WIMAX需要的是对运营商进行革命,剥夺自己已有的地位是谁
: 也不会干的事情。

n**d
发帖数: 9764
88
这教授老谈WIFI, 那为啥不直接上WiMax?

【在 s******u 的大作中提到】
: 成功的东西 并不一定是因为他技术是最先进的
: 这个是我家猪头常说的
: 然后常常拿彩信和短信的例子来教育我
: 说彩信的技术含量远远超过短信 为啥短信在中国就远远popular与短信
: 其实我也不懂 猪头常说 我就记住了
: 还有他常常说的摩托有个啥天上全是卫星的计划,也泡汤了 最后

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