y****7
发帖数: 1226 | 1 第一次在MIT上发帖，希望大家能帮帮忙。也许钱不多，但是对现在还是学生的我们来
说，却是个很大的数目了。
情况比较复杂，大致如下：
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房子的租期是今年6月1日到8月1日，短租的暑假，租金750每月，security deposit同
样的数目。与其他两名室友合租。
8月1日查房的时候房东发现她的granite counter top有一块变色了，很不高兴，想把
整块counter top换了，说要扣留我们的security deposit，会找公司报价之后再联系
我们。她说肯定是我们把烫的锅子直接放在台子上造成的。我们一直不承认。因为那一
块地方是放的调料，从来没有放过锅子。而且granite就是因为抗高温的特点，才卖的
比较贵的。
她说换变色的部分counter top不会太多，也就几百块。
我们当时就觉得，几百块对她来说不多，对我们来说太多了，就据理力争。
首先，变色的原因不明，如果是因为烫坏了，那就根本不是我们，如果是其他原因，倒
有可能；
第二，我们不能确定在我们来之前是不是已经变色了。她说我没有在入住查房的时候写
下来。我说这种事情根本就不算个事，肯定不会写啊。同样，因为我觉得这种事情不算
个事儿，所以我觉得不需要把它敲掉换新的。如果这种事情都要写下来的话，那哪里写
的下。房子交到我手上的时候，小毛病太多了，这里一块污点那里有一点灰尘这些事情
如果我都要记录的话，怎么可能呢
当时这个事情没有谈拢，只是说如果要找人来检查的时候，我们要求到场。
房东的另一个要求，打扫房间，我们答应了。因为房东要走，就让我们留下来打扫。我
们打扫完拍了照片。
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从那天以后我们就开始找人问灶台的事情，一个是想搞清楚原因，另一个是想看看能否
补救。
最后经过多方调查，问熟人，上网查等等，觉得可能是油污渗透，并且没法清除。
这期间我们问了很多人，有劝我们争取见面好好谈的（虽然我不看好这个建议），实在
不行就算了，750不要了；有直接让我们到小额法庭告状的，各有各的理，搞得人头大
。而房东本身的不听解释、执意要换、不愿意再见面的态度，也让我们很烦恼。
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房东不愿意再见面好好谈，希望用email解决，其实也是符合我的想法的。毕竟有文本
，比口说无凭要好些。
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直到半个月前，房东给我们发来邮件，出人意料的是，信中又提出了清洁问题。好在最
后另一个房客V解决了这个问题。
以下是email内容，
J和她妈妈是房东。我和R和W是房客，其中W是暑假从V手上sublease的。
1
J 8月15日
Hi all,
Just wanted to give everyone an update on the status of security deposits.
省略三段讨论房子清洁问题的内容
Also, there is the issue of the granite counter top that was damaged. It was
installed just before I left in early June and was damaged by the end of
July. We have photos of what the area looks like and have sent them to the
company that we purchased the counter top from. They requested pictures and
said that would be sufficient and did not need to come to physically see the
counter top. Their quote for damages will be finalized and I will share a
scanned copy of their documentation with all of you. Because I was not
present during this time period, I again will ask you as a group to decide
how this cost will be divided. Their documentation will also contain a
description of what they believe caused the damage (at the point in time I
believe they attribute it to oil becoming trapped inside the stone). I do
not know who used the area more or less or if there was any specific
incident that happened that caused this. Those of you who were living there
probably have a better idea of how things were going during that month.
Please respond as a group reply with any questions or discussion so that
everyone can have an idea of what is going on (unless you want to discuss
division of costs separately among yourselves that is fine). I will respond
when I have time to, just a note that responses may take longer due to my
work schedule.
Thanks,
J
2
V8月16日
主要是反驳清洁问题
Dear J,
The state of the kitchen was actually a complete mess when I moved in. I
spent an entire day scrubbing the fridge, kitchen floors, appliances, and
kitchen pantry.
The bathroom was also a disgusting mess with mold everywhere and the grout
rotting. My boyfriend actually spent another day scrubbing the mold out as
well, and I had informed you about the rotting grout and the board falling
off the cabinet.
I did not complain about it, but I feel that it would not be fair to charge
the renters as because we (including you) had a part in the "mess" that was
left behind. It is actually standard practice for landlords to do a complete
professional cleaning at least once a year (and especially when new tenants
are moving in), but that was not performed when I moved in and when the
other new tenants moved in as well.
In fact, the "dirtiness" is probably part of the "wear and tear" that is
found in contracts, and tenants should not be penalized for it. The
apartment, from what I understand of it had not been thoroughly cleaned for
many many years (at least 4-5 years from what I've observed and heard); it
would not make sense to penalize tenants as a result of the lack of
professional cleaning that should have been maintained by the landlord.
V
3
J 8月16日
主要是房东反反驳清洁问题
I completely understand. Honestly I do not mind paying for the cleaning cost
. However if when you move in there are issues it is also your
responsibility to bring it up at that time. All these complaints are coming
much later than the fact. I have also brought up several times the option of
having professional cleaners come in instead of us cleaning and splitting
the cost while everyone was living there. this idea was shot down each time
with the tenants opting to not pay instead saying they would keep the area
clean on their own.
In conclusion I don't mind paying the cost, but I believe that if you have
complaints then as tenants you should also inform the landlord at the time
to solve the issue instead of leaving things until the end. Everyone has a
part to play in this.
4
J8月16日
主要是房东同意自己出钱打扫
还说到counter top的quote快来了
Just confirmed with my mom to make sure. We will cover the cleaning costs. :
) you're definitely right we should get at least once yearly cleaning. But
if you do see things at the time, it would be nice to be informed then (
aside from the bathroom board/grout) so we can do something about it instead
of not complaining and doing it on your own and later bring it up.
The counter top quote should be back later today and I will send that out.
5
W 8月16日
主要是W说他没怎么住，应该承担最少的责任
Hi J,
Thanks for your message. I do agree with what Vania said about the cleansing
issue. To be honest, I have rented many different places but never heard
about that landlord bringing up this issue before. I do understand you, but
just feel like it is a sunk cost that the house is getting older if there
are people living there. But anyway, you did say you will cover the
cleansing cost which is good to us. I appreciate!
In terms of the counter top, I did send you an email regarding this. Since I
barely used the kitchen and given that I was not in Chicago from Monday to
Thursday, I think I should be the least responsible for that by any means. I
would like to have an open talk with everyone someday to discuss the
distribution of responsibilities. Just let me know.
Anyway, thanks for summer's rent. I had a great time living there generally.
W
6
我 8月17日
这一段是我发给房东的
Hi J,
I and my wife used the kitchen most during the period of June and July, we
can take more responsibility for the situation of the counter top.
However, we don't think we tenants (Rui Vania Wei I and my wife) are
responsible for the replacement of the counter top.
First of all, the guy named Peter from the company which installed the
counter top made a phone call to me yesterday, explaining the situation of
the counter top and answering some questions from me.
From what he said, we had these conclusions:
1) the reason of the changed color of the granite is probably the
penetration of the oil or sauces;
2) this is only a matter of visual. This penetration will probably not
effect how long this counter top can be used. This incident is different
from things like 'you use hammers to knock the counter top' and 'you stand
on the thin part (e.g in front of the sink) of the counter top to change
some light bulbs', which both, among other improper ways of using, will do
damage to the extent that affects the life of the counter top;
3) basically speaking, a granite counter top may be used for several decades
, sometimes around 100 years;
Thus we do not think it is necessary to change the whole counter top to a
new one.
Moreover, we tenants did't know and were not informed that oil and sauces on
the counter top would do damage to it. I don't think this is common sense.
your mom also thought the damage is due to other reason at the first time.
Thus, we think we should be forgiven for this accidental mistake. What we
did during these two months is just use the kitchen normally, maybe a little
careless, but apparently we didn't DO any damage to it, let alone do any
damage on purpose.
Thus we think the penalty for this kind of mistake should not be as much as
paying for replacement of the whole counter top.
Last but not least, this amount of money is really huge for us international
students. If we spend this extra hundreds of money out of our budget, it
would be a huge burden for us. It's about the beginning of new semester, we
are busy and will be more in a week. I think this is true for everyone that
this incident affect our life a lot. I hope we can solve this soon.
We agree to pay for reasonable amount of money for the loss of visual
appearance of the counter top, but not replacement of it.
I and my wife agree with W that we could meet and talk and discuss about
this situation face to face, to figure out another solution than replacing
the whole counter top.
Thank you all.
7
J 8月17日
这是房东给我的回复
房东在这里用了一个衣服的比喻，来说明灶台的问题已经到了一定要更换新的不可的地步
Hi,
I'm glad that you spoke to Peter and he was able to explain the situation to
you. You are right, it is a visual matter, it will not affect the use of
the counter top, it is still stone. However, the entire purpose of
installing a granite counter top is to enhance the value of the unit for
resale in the future. The fact that there is a large oil stain on the
counter top completely defeats the purpose of installing one in the first
place. And if anything may decrease the value. It is like having a large oil
stain on a shirt. It does not affect the wearability of the shirt or the
fact that it still functions as a shirt, but it certainly decreases the
value. As a consumer, I would not want to purchase a shirt that had an oil
stain on it and I would see it as a damaged piece of clothing. The same
translates over to the counter top.
As for this being common sense or not being told how to specifically use a
counter top. I beg to disagree. Before we had those counter tops, even with
the cheaper material we always placed paper towel underneath where we stored
the cooking ingredients and this is something that both Rui and Vania can
attest to. I would also change it periodically because it would get very
oily. Same with putting dirty pots or pans directly on the counter top (don'
t know if this happened) but we would always use a mat or some sort in
between the counter top and the pan unless it was clean/dry. Like I also
said to you in a separate email, I've lived at my apartment now for over 3
months, longer than the time you were there, and I have had no issues with
oil stains on my granite counter top. In addition, there were no specific
instructions regarding care, but I'm sure if I left a large oil stain on it,
I would be held 100% accountable even if I say no one told me how to care
for it. Same with wood floors. I put felt on the bottom of my chairs so I
won't scratch it. This was not told to me specifically, but if I left with
large scratches on the floor, I also am sure I would be fined for the costs
of repair. This argument can be used for anything in the living area - floor
, microwave, oven, washer, dryer, toilet, etc.
And to address the point of doing damage on purpose or not, no one has ever
said it was done on purpose. It simply happened and still, like I said above
, has repercussions. Many times damage is doing inadvertently or on accident
. It does not draw away from the fact that it happened. Mistakes are
mistakes and like we all learn I'm sure in the professional world you have
to make up for them in one way or another whether it's something you need to
pay for or apologize for or do extra work, etc.
I understand that this is very expensive and that is why I think the
discussion of how to reconcile this should be had. I do not think it is
possible for everyone to meet face to face (I think Wei is also back at
school in Indiana now, as am I for work). But like I said, I am open to
discussing anything over email. If it is reasonable I of course will agree,
as with the cleaning expenses for the apartment.
And again, to address your last line, the visual issue of the granite
counter top is just as important as the functionality. The value greatly
decreases when the visual aspect is damaged. Having a granite counter top
with a large stain pretty much negates the value that it would add being
there. A regular counter top without stains would probably be better. I
again draw you attention to the comparison to clothing/purse/etc. A cheaper
shirt without a stain still more desireable than one with a large stain.
8
我 8月17日
这是我当天给房东的回复，让她表明她的观点是想让我们100%支付更换费用
Hi J,
I only saw your reasoning for this, but I'm not very sure about your
conclusion.
I guess your conclusion is that 1) you still will replace the counter top in
the near future and 2) we tenants should pay for the 100% of the replacing
of it
Is that correct? Please let me know.
Thanks
9
J8月17日
房东坚称：灶台一定要被换掉，没理由留着，并称谁需要对此负责就应该谁出钱
Whoever the responsible party is for the damage should be held accountable.
The counter top needs to be replaced - like I said, there is no point in
having it there if it is damaged.
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这之后我们就没有回复了，都在迎新和找人咨询
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10
R 8月19日
另一个室友R第一次出现了，两天以后
so there's no way for them to make the stain less noticeable?
and how much is it to replace it, didn't receive an email with the quote.
11
J 8月23日 (9 天前)
终于发来了公司的报价，1750刀
Hey everyone,
I've attached what they sent my mom with the quote and their explanation.
From what I've heard and what my mom has gathered from talking to the
company, there isn't a way to get rid of the oil stain.
Let me know any questions you have, I'll try to clear them up or talk to the
company and whatnot.
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之后就没有了交流。
我就各种找人问，跑学校法律咨询等等。但是学校法律咨询假期一直没人，开学后也还
在招人，要到10月才有律师在。
现在的房东说我们如果需要，可以准备一下材料，她拿去给她的律师看看，让她律师帮
忙写封信发给原来的房东。但是我也不知道有没有用。
因为暂时没法给出答复，我昨天给J发了一个回复
12
我 19:24 (23 小时前)
Hi J,
Sorry about the delay.
I kept contacting legal consultation office of my university during past
weeks, but
they still don't have an attorney in office now.
I'll keep trying to contact them as well as lawyers of some of my friends. I
need to talk to them before I can take next step. I'll let you know.
Thanks
之后她在gtalk上问我是不是要准备打官司，让我如果要打官司要通知他们，他们好也
请律师。
我说我只是想找专业人士问问，确认一下我们到底应不应该给钱。
然后她回复说反问我，难道不觉得应该是我们房客的全责么？她和她妈妈当时都没有住
在那里啊！
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现在的问题是：
是不是房东想换counter top就能换掉，不管我们造成的损害是不是必须换，然后找我
们出钱？我们需要怎么跟房东理论才能说服她要么不换，我们赔一点美观上的钱，要么
我们赔一点钱，她们也出一部分换掉。总之就是deposit有没有希望退回来，能退回来
多少？ | s*****r
发帖数: 261 | 2 哥们，咱俩的问题差不多。 总体感觉这个房东不是在想把counter top弄美观些，而是
他就是盯着要扣你的钱。自己看下那个东西自己买，需要多少钱？ |
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