K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 1 问题：如果一个投资/投机者对1.5X, 3X, 10X等等不感兴趣，是不是options
对他/她的吸引力就锐减？
换句话说，是不是玩option的人的主要动机是其若干X的功能？
偶提出这个问题的原因是：option作为hedging的用法，几乎总是可以简单
通过buy/sell stocks/ETFs/MFs实现，只要杠杆不超过1.0X.
简单的例子：你觉得风险太大了，就可以把cash level从0%上升到20%.
如果还是风险太大，则从20%上升到50% （或者30%, 60%, 46.21%, 等等）。
所以如果一个投机者拥有free commission stock/ETF/MF account，简单的
操作就可以hedge, 而且还便宜，为什么要上options呢？吸引力又在何处？ |
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 2 简单的一个cover call，return是一个折线，你怎么用ETF来实现？
时间对这样一个策略有利，对ETF中性，你又怎么实现？
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 问题：如果一个投资/投机者对1.5X, 3X, 10X等等不感兴趣，是不是options
: 对他/她的吸引力就锐减？
: 换句话说，是不是玩option的人的主要动机是其若干X的功能？
: 偶提出这个问题的原因是：option作为hedging的用法，几乎总是可以简单
: 通过buy/sell stocks/ETFs/MFs实现，只要杠杆不超过1.0X.
: 简单的例子：你觉得风险太大了，就可以把cash level从0%上升到20%.
: 如果还是风险太大，则从20%上升到50% （或者30%, 60%, 46.21%, 等等）。
: 所以如果一个投机者拥有free commission stock/ETF/MF account，简单的
: 操作就可以hedge, 而且还便宜，为什么要上options呢？吸引力又在何处？
|
b****e
发帖数: 460 | 3 比如我一个老农，我要种橙子，我今天种了半年以后才能收获，那么我得买农药得雇人
干活，但是我得能保证市场上卖出去这些橙子后能赚钱。那么我就得要半年后橙子的
put option，这样我才能保证我收获的橙子不会因为市场价格太低卖不出去。
我以为option的hedge功能就像一种保险业务。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 问题：如果一个投资/投机者对1.5X, 3X, 10X等等不感兴趣，是不是options
: 对他/她的吸引力就锐减？
: 换句话说，是不是玩option的人的主要动机是其若干X的功能？
: 偶提出这个问题的原因是：option作为hedging的用法，几乎总是可以简单
: 通过buy/sell stocks/ETFs/MFs实现，只要杠杆不超过1.0X.
: 简单的例子：你觉得风险太大了，就可以把cash level从0%上升到20%.
: 如果还是风险太大，则从20%上升到50% （或者30%, 60%, 46.21%, 等等）。
: 所以如果一个投机者拥有free commission stock/ETF/MF account，简单的
: 操作就可以hedge, 而且还便宜，为什么要上options呢？吸引力又在何处？
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 4 equivalent strategy to selling covered call:
If yield >= 10%, sell all, 100% cash.
Otherwise: all in, hold 0% cash.
yield curve上超过1.0X的部分搞不定。
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 简单的一个cover call，return是一个折线，你怎么用ETF来实现？
: 时间对这样一个策略有利，对ETF中性，你又怎么实现？
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 5 一般的青蛙很少有人这么用的吧。
偶说的是比较流行的拿着options买来卖去那种。
【在 b****e 的大作中提到】
: 比如我一个老农，我要种橙子，我今天种了半年以后才能收获，那么我得买农药得雇人
: 干活，但是我得能保证市场上卖出去这些橙子后能赚钱。那么我就得要半年后橙子的
: put option，这样我才能保证我收获的橙子不会因为市场价格太低卖不出去。
: 我以为option的hedge功能就像一种保险业务。
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 6 时间策略光靠ETF搞不定，偶承认这个是option特有的。所以ETF trader
不能实现“偶预测将来几个月市场将没有多少波动。偶想通过偶的预测
赚钱”这样的功能。
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 简单的一个cover call，return是一个折线，你怎么用ETF来实现？
: 时间对这样一个策略有利，对ETF中性，你又怎么实现？
|
s********n
发帖数: 1962 | 7 Option is an insurance product for the underlying, period.
No matter how people play with it, they are essentially buying/writing
insurances.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 一般的青蛙很少有人这么用的吧。
: 偶说的是比较流行的拿着options买来卖去那种。
|
x******n
发帖数: 1328 | 8 hedge就是要杠杆啊
如果你有10万刀，用9x的杠杆来hedge你就可以9万刀投资1万刀来hedge保险
如果用1x的杠杆来hedge你就只能用5万刀来投资了。
本来各种带杠杆的金融衍生物就是拿来给投资者保险的，结果被滥用成了
投机的工具，造成了今天的恶名声。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 问题：如果一个投资/投机者对1.5X, 3X, 10X等等不感兴趣，是不是options
: 对他/她的吸引力就锐减？
: 换句话说，是不是玩option的人的主要动机是其若干X的功能？
: 偶提出这个问题的原因是：option作为hedging的用法，几乎总是可以简单
: 通过buy/sell stocks/ETFs/MFs实现，只要杠杆不超过1.0X.
: 简单的例子：你觉得风险太大了，就可以把cash level从0%上升到20%.
: 如果还是风险太大，则从20%上升到50% （或者30%, 60%, 46.21%, 等等）。
: 所以如果一个投机者拥有free commission stock/ETF/MF account，简单的
: 操作就可以hedge, 而且还便宜，为什么要上options呢？吸引力又在何处？
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 9 My idea is that if you only insure up to 100% of your asset,
you can simply do that by yourself by adjusting your cash
level (buying/selling ETFs only).
Say, the moment you want to pay 5% premium to insure 80% of
your asset in the next 3 months, you can simply just sell
80% of your equity and keep that cash level for 3 months.
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: Option is an insurance product for the underlying, period.
: No matter how people play with it, they are essentially buying/writing
: insurances.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 10 cover call可以保护一定的下降空间不亏损，
你的策略行吗？
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: equivalent strategy to selling covered call:
: If yield >= 10%, sell all, 100% cash.
: Otherwise: all in, hold 0% cash.
: yield curve上超过1.0X的部分搞不定。
|
|
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K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 11 Ok, new strategy:
1) If ETF yield >= 10%, sell all, 100% cash.
2) Do not buy back until yield <=0%.
3) All in otherwise.
It 保护一定的下降空间 as long as the ETF passes 10% for at
least once.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: cover call可以保护一定的下降空间不亏损，
: 你的策略行吗？
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 12 What if your ETF was never positive after your buy.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Ok, new strategy:
: 1) If ETF yield >= 10%, sell all, 100% cash.
: 2) Do not buy back until yield <=0%.
: 3) All in otherwise.
: It 保护一定的下降空间 as long as the ETF passes 10% for at
: least once.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 13 then no downside protection.
However, if it passes 10% and 0% twice, it gets twice the downside
protection.
Of course, ETF cannot mimic option strategies completely. But
something similar is reasonably good bah... The main merit is
"cheap".
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: What if your ETF was never positive after your buy.
|
s********n
发帖数: 1962 | 14 You sell it, you lose the up potential.
You can say buying insurance is a hedge in a broad sense. But the real
meaning is to protect your down side by paying a premium while leave
the potential of up side. This is different from completely neutralizing
your position.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: My idea is that if you only insure up to 100% of your asset,
: you can simply do that by yourself by adjusting your cash
: level (buying/selling ETFs only).
: Say, the moment you want to pay 5% premium to insure 80% of
: your asset in the next 3 months, you can simply just sell
: 80% of your equity and keep that cash level for 3 months.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 15 Well, if you buy insurance to hedge so that you may free up your
cash in your portfolio for other purposes, then essentially you
are still taking advantage of the >1.0X leverage function of an
option.
An anti-option guy like me probably doesn't care about the liquidity.
When he decides to self-insure his equity, he would just sell
a portion and hold the cash. If he wants to keep the upside
potential, he wouldn't have sold the equity in the first place.
Insurance for these guys are simple: you in
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: You sell it, you lose the up potential.
: You can say buying insurance is a hedge in a broad sense. But the real
: meaning is to protect your down side by paying a premium while leave
: the potential of up side. This is different from completely neutralizing
: your position.
|
r****y
发帖数: 3412 | 16 我只看到赔X10..very likely...run..
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 问题：如果一个投资/投机者对1.5X, 3X, 10X等等不感兴趣，是不是options
: 对他/她的吸引力就锐减？
: 换句话说，是不是玩option的人的主要动机是其若干X的功能？
: 偶提出这个问题的原因是：option作为hedging的用法，几乎总是可以简单
: 通过buy/sell stocks/ETFs/MFs实现，只要杠杆不超过1.0X.
: 简单的例子：你觉得风险太大了，就可以把cash level从0%上升到20%.
: 如果还是风险太大，则从20%上升到50% （或者30%, 60%, 46.21%, 等等）。
: 所以如果一个投机者拥有free commission stock/ETF/MF account，简单的
: 操作就可以hedge, 而且还便宜，为什么要上options呢？吸引力又在何处？
|
s******d
发帖数: 323 | 17
option按说都能按照black-scholes公式算出相应的delta hedge来吧。
但是这个是个时间的函数，你难道每时每刻都去买卖ETF不成？闭市了怎么办。。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 问题：如果一个投资/投机者对1.5X, 3X, 10X等等不感兴趣，是不是options
: 对他/她的吸引力就锐减？
: 换句话说，是不是玩option的人的主要动机是其若干X的功能？
: 偶提出这个问题的原因是：option作为hedging的用法，几乎总是可以简单
: 通过buy/sell stocks/ETFs/MFs实现，只要杠杆不超过1.0X.
: 简单的例子：你觉得风险太大了，就可以把cash level从0%上升到20%.
: 如果还是风险太大，则从20%上升到50% （或者30%, 60%, 46.21%, 等等）。
: 所以如果一个投机者拥有free commission stock/ETF/MF account，简单的
: 操作就可以hedge, 而且还便宜，为什么要上options呢？吸引力又在何处？
|
s********n
发帖数: 1962 | 18 I don't quite follow your logic. Particularly about "you insure, then
you lose liquidity."
Option is a contract as simple as "If the stock drops below 100 by June
2009, I'll reimburse your lost incurred below 100." There is no leverage
here.
Put the inefficiency of math models aside, it's actually a fair product,
unlike life insurance where you pay a price maybe 3 times of the real
price.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Well, if you buy insurance to hedge so that you may free up your
: cash in your portfolio for other purposes, then essentially you
: are still taking advantage of the >1.0X leverage function of an
: option.
: An anti-option guy like me probably doesn't care about the liquidity.
: When he decides to self-insure his equity, he would just sell
: a portion and hold the cash. If he wants to keep the upside
: potential, he wouldn't have sold the equity in the first place.
: Insurance for these guys are simple: you in
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K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 19
I meant: if I self-insure myself, I have to put a lot of cash
aside and can't touch it.
Say my current YTD is 10%. Now I want to ensure that my yield on
12/31/2009 would not be below 5%. One of the ways would be cashing
out 95.45% and don't touch it for the rest of the year; only play
stocks with the rest 4.55% cash.
That way, I lose liquidity on the 95.45%. It's my money, but I
just can't touch it.
Maybe I was misusing the word "leverage". It has potential
2X, 5X, 10X return over the premium y
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: I don't quite follow your logic. Particularly about "you insure, then
: you lose liquidity."
: Option is a contract as simple as "If the stock drops below 100 by June
: 2009, I'll reimburse your lost incurred below 100." There is no leverage
: here.
: Put the inefficiency of math models aside, it's actually a fair product,
: unlike life insurance where you pay a price maybe 3 times of the real
: price.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 20 所以得有free commission的账号才行啊，呵呵。
而且只能模拟到一定的相似程度，否则得累死。
【在 s******d 的大作中提到】
:
: option按说都能按照black-scholes公式算出相应的delta hedge来吧。
: 但是这个是个时间的函数，你难道每时每刻都去买卖ETF不成？闭市了怎么办。。
|
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K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 21 Actually If there are free option trades, I would like to try
some, hoho. Selling covered calls would be a good start since
it fits my style.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 所以得有free commission的账号才行啊，呵呵。
: 而且只能模拟到一定的相似程度，否则得累死。
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 22 In your way, you limit your upside, if you buy a put to protect,
you don't limit your upside.
In any case, option gives you a much more flexible way to adjust
preferred return curve.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Actually If there are free option trades, I would like to try
: some, hoho. Selling covered calls would be a good start since
: it fits my style.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 23 IB charges $1 per contract, if you buy big price stock, it's not
costly for covered call.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Actually If there are free option trades, I would like to try
: some, hoho. Selling covered calls would be a good start since
: it fits my style.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 24 No additional flat fee? @_@
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: IB charges $1 per contract, if you buy big price stock, it's not
: costly for covered call.
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n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 25 IB has monthly fee.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: No additional flat fee? @_@
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g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 26 $10 a month is not a big deal.
【在 n******n 的大作中提到】
: IB has monthly fee.
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m******t
发帖数: 2416 | 27 options are not only insurances - although
that's what they were originally introduced
for.
The beauty of options, IMNSHO, lies in the
ability to craft a (most of the time
very accurate) strategy for almost
every conceivable market condition.
I admit that due to my 偏见 towards commercial insurances, I tend
to think options are also overpriced ripoffs. i.e., I thought the
party who writes options has the advantage. If it's not the case,
maybe options aren't that bad.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: No additional flat fee? @_@
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s*****n
发帖数: 5488 | 28 风险固定。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 问题：如果一个投资/投机者对1.5X, 3X, 10X等等不感兴趣，是不是options
: 对他/她的吸引力就锐减？
: 换句话说，是不是玩option的人的主要动机是其若干X的功能？
: 偶提出这个问题的原因是：option作为hedging的用法，几乎总是可以简单
: 通过buy/sell stocks/ETFs/MFs实现，只要杠杆不超过1.0X.
: 简单的例子：你觉得风险太大了，就可以把cash level从0%上升到20%.
: 如果还是风险太大，则从20%上升到50% （或者30%, 60%, 46.21%, 等等）。
: 所以如果一个投机者拥有free commission stock/ETF/MF account，简单的
: 操作就可以hedge, 而且还便宜，为什么要上options呢？吸引力又在何处？
|
