f*****a
发帖数: 7 | 1 我是一名PhD新生，拿的是学校的Fellowship，Spring 2013入学，现由于家庭原因决定
转master然后尽快开始工作，不知该如何跟系里处理这件事情呢？
若入学一开始就跟assigned advisor（或者系里其他自己想跟的导师）说明自己只能承
诺读master，不是很sure是否能够完成PhD的话，会不会没有导师要我呢？若有导师要
我的话，系里会不会把我的Fellowship取消呢？
第二种方案就是开始跟系里自己想跟的导师面谈时，不提转master的事儿，等拿到
master学位后走人，不过自己觉得这个方案有些伤人品，另外，听说找工作时还会要求
References，这样肯定拿不到什么好的References了，对找工作是否十分不利呢？
请给位前辈给一下建议，我该如何做好呢？非常感谢！ | l***i
发帖数: 1309 | 2 You fellowship has its own terms, read that.
Most professors do not take Master students seriously but you can always
find one that serves your research advisor. | v*********n
发帖数: 3983 | 3 既然是非走不可的“家庭原因”，那就把家庭原因解释给系里说清楚。
人家的fellowship是给你读phd用的。你非要拿master走人没人拦你，但请自费master
嘛。 | s********w
发帖数: 13 | 4 Find an adviser that will take you on as a master student, and maybe you can
do TA to support yourself. | a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 5 No, you don't have to tell nobody about your plan. Get your fellowship and
quit at appropriate time. You don't owe anybody. This is America, don't use
Chinese way to think. You get paid for what you do, you don't owe anyone.
Several things need to be kept in mind:
1. Always keep a good relationship with your advisor. Your quitting usually
won't offend a nice PI, it's personal choice especially if it's about very
personal reason. So you need to find a nice boss, not an asshole.
2. Try to find out whether this happened before in your program. Some may
ask you to return the fees before they give you the master degree. But don't
panic, must likely you can leave without paying anything. Even if they ask
you to pay, then just pay for it little by little. Job opportunity is much
important than that little money (you will realize that the fellowship money
you make is really nothing when you get a good job, so just take it as an
investment which is definitely worthwhile since many phds can't get good
jobs).
Good luck. Again, this is your life. You do NOT owe anyone. | H*g
发帖数: 2333 | 6 Are you currently holding an F1 visa, Green Card, or are you a US citizen? | F******k
发帖数: 7375 | 7 agree
master嘛。
【在 v*********n 的大作中提到】
: 既然是非走不可的“家庭原因”，那就把家庭原因解释给系里说清楚。
: 人家的fellowship是给你读phd用的。你非要拿master走人没人拦你，但请自费master
: 嘛。
| P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 8 "You don't owe anybody."
Yes he does! The fellowship is usually offered under the assumption that he
will not make any contribution in the first two years (most students don't)
but will pay back the favor later in the years 3, 4 and 5. It's like he
borrowed money first two years(because he does nothing except learning), but
needs to pay back later. If he just leaves, it's like borrowing money but
refuse to pay back later. No one has to offer him anything for his learning.
If his first 2 years come from TA, that's OK. He's done his work and earned
money. If it's pure fellowship, it NOT OK!
use
usually
't
ask
【在 a**********2 的大作中提到】
: No, you don't have to tell nobody about your plan. Get your fellowship and
: quit at appropriate time. You don't owe anybody. This is America, don't use
: Chinese way to think. You get paid for what you do, you don't owe anyone.
: Several things need to be kept in mind:
: 1. Always keep a good relationship with your advisor. Your quitting usually
: won't offend a nice PI, it's personal choice especially if it's about very
: personal reason. So you need to find a nice boss, not an asshole.
: 2. Try to find out whether this happened before in your program. Some may
: ask you to return the fees before they give you the master degree. But don't
: panic, must likely you can leave without paying anything. Even if they ask
| e*******s
发帖数: 1363 | 9 同意。楼主自己都觉得会伤人品。以后鬼子在招中国学生的时候会怎么想？
master
【在 v*********n 的大作中提到】
: 既然是非走不可的“家庭原因”，那就把家庭原因解释给系里说清楚。
: 人家的fellowship是给你读phd用的。你非要拿master走人没人拦你，但请自费master
: 嘛。
| a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 10 You only need to explain to them before you decide to leave, not at the
beginning. Don't be stupid. Many American students quit after two years, why
can't you? So don't think in Chinese way, you are in the US. You are not
obligated to stay there for the entire study. PIs just want to exploit you,
you don't owe them. Just look at how they fire/treat postdocs, you will know
that everything should be you first, then others.
master
【在 v*********n 的大作中提到】
: 既然是非走不可的“家庭原因”，那就把家庭原因解释给系里说清楚。
: 人家的fellowship是给你读phd用的。你非要拿master走人没人拦你，但请自费master
: 嘛。
| | | w****3
发帖数: 232 | 11
why
,
know
比较支持。至于说什么2年，3年的事，归根结底是某些人的猜测，你说后三年是还债？
我还说学校就是要你干两年呢，后三年巴不得你滚蛋省点钱。典型的自己的问题没想清
楚就着急为对方着想的心态。
归根结底，你只要没反规定就行。对方给你钱就要想好各种可能性，不能承担你的中途
退出就要说明，否则后果自负。不用你也轮不着你为他们着想。要是你真的是读了两年
书然后不得不走了那怎么办？把钱补回去，还是自裁以谢天下啊？
【在 a**********2 的大作中提到】
: You only need to explain to them before you decide to leave, not at the
: beginning. Don't be stupid. Many American students quit after two years, why
: can't you? So don't think in Chinese way, you are in the US. You are not
: obligated to stay there for the entire study. PIs just want to exploit you,
: you don't owe them. Just look at how they fire/treat postdocs, you will know
: that everything should be you first, then others.
:
: master
| a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 12 I know you are a PI, that's why you think that way. But for the student, his
future is more important than anything else. He has FULL right to quit
after two years. If you can't afford the risk, don't get any student. Good
for students and postdocs, especially in bio field.
he
)
but
learning.
earned
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: "You don't owe anybody."
: Yes he does! The fellowship is usually offered under the assumption that he
: will not make any contribution in the first two years (most students don't)
: but will pay back the favor later in the years 3, 4 and 5. It's like he
: borrowed money first two years(because he does nothing except learning), but
: needs to pay back later. If he just leaves, it's like borrowing money but
: refuse to pay back later. No one has to offer him anything for his learning.
: If his first 2 years come from TA, that's OK. He's done his work and earned
: money. If it's pure fellowship, it NOT OK!
:
| P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 13 I know I think like that because I’m a PI. I agree the student’s future is
more important. However, the deal was that he is offered a fellowship under
the condition that he would stay for a PhD degree. If he thought that was
NOT good for his future, then he DID NOT have to accept the offer. Instead,
accept something better for his future, not something bad for his future.
Having said that, I do agree that if something happens in the middle,
unexpected at the beginning, it understandable that he quits for something
that suits him better. So I am not saying no one is allowed to quit at all.
Even then, it does not mean that the student does not owe anything. It’s
just his mistake is forgiven. He still owes a favor. I had two Chinese
students quit for financial school, but from my interactions with them I
knew they did actually plan to finish PhD at the beginning, but in the
middle they changed mind because the could not write (and they really had a
lot of trouble with writing), so I gave them. That does not mean they do not
owe me anything. Even they tell me “I am sorry, I owe you a lot!”. How
can you say they don’t owe me anything? However, for those who knew at the
very beginning that they would quit after Master’s, but still accept a PhD
fellowship, I have to say, shame on them! From the internet, of course it’s
impossible to know if the LZ had this plan ahead of time, or something
actually happened unexpectedly. Only he and God knows!
his
【在 a**********2 的大作中提到】
: I know you are a PI, that's why you think that way. But for the student, his
: future is more important than anything else. He has FULL right to quit
: after two years. If you can't afford the risk, don't get any student. Good
: for students and postdocs, especially in bio field.
:
: he
: )
: but
: learning.
: earned
| P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 14 Also for your comment, if you cannot afford the risk, then do not take a
student. I actually agree. And that’s what a lot of other PIs are doing.
But do know what happens to students who actually do plan stay for a PhD?
The situation made it a lot more difficult for them to get accepted. Don’t
tell me that it’s good for them not to get into PhD especially Bio.
Borrowing your words, don’t decide for them what’s good for them. They
know, and let them decide. The fact is that they DO want to get into a PhD
program, but what other people have done made many PIs hesitate. So now the
new applicants complain “why should we pay for earlier people’s behavior?
” Well, that is exactly what you suggested, if you cannot afford the risk,
then don’t take a student. I am not so sure even for students, if they all
like your comments – unless they are already in a program. If they are
still applying, they will not enjoy your comments. They would think you are
very selfish. You have got what you want, now you don’t care whatever
happens to them at all.
his
【在 a**********2 的大作中提到】
: I know you are a PI, that's why you think that way. But for the student, his
: future is more important than anything else. He has FULL right to quit
: after two years. If you can't afford the risk, don't get any student. Good
: for students and postdocs, especially in bio field.
:
: he
: )
: but
: learning.
: earned
| a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 15 I understand your point. But for this student, I assume he is still young,
so just take the fellowship and quit in 2 years if you don't change your
mind at that time. In 30 years, when you look back, you will know your
decision is right. You don't need to feel guilty about it. Your boss or PI
won't feel guilty when he or she fires you. It's a working relationship, don
't let your personal emotion get involved in your decision making.
is
under
,
something
.
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: I know I think like that because I’m a PI. I agree the student’s future is
: more important. However, the deal was that he is offered a fellowship under
: the condition that he would stay for a PhD degree. If he thought that was
: NOT good for his future, then he DID NOT have to accept the offer. Instead,
: accept something better for his future, not something bad for his future.
: Having said that, I do agree that if something happens in the middle,
: unexpected at the beginning, it understandable that he quits for something
: that suits him better. So I am not saying no one is allowed to quit at all.
: Even then, it does not mean that the student does not owe anything. It’s
: just his mistake is forgiven. He still owes a favor. I had two Chinese
| a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 16 I won't take back what I said. Bio phd isn't worthwhile unless the only
purpose is to come to the US. IT, EE phd might be worthwhile.
If you argue with me about ” pay for earlier behavior”, then you have no
right to criticize anyone. I would argue that when you got your F1 or J1,
you said you would go back to China afterwards. Did you do that? Obviously
not. I would say your initial lie made other people difficult to get visa
before 2005. So you have no moral superiority.
What you want to get is a cheap labor, who will be committed to you for
several years. But if you are not selfish, did you tell then the truth about
bio field? I highly doubt it. Because if you did, you would not get nobody
by your standard, so you ARE selfish and not consider student or postdoc's
long term interest.
For LZ, your life is yours, don't feel you owe someone something if he or
she offers you a fellowship (that's typical Chinese way to think about
employment relationship). This is America. You get paid for what you do. Don
't say that the first two years are just courses and training. Companies pay
for training also before start of work, will they ask you to pay back if
you decide to leave after the training or if they think you are not
qualified after the training? Oh hell no. So the training is paid everywhere
. The only difference is for it's two years for school and weeks to months
for companies, but it's still pre-employment training. So, don't feel guilty
, take it now and quit in 2 years.
t
the
,
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: Also for your comment, if you cannot afford the risk, then do not take a
: student. I actually agree. And that’s what a lot of other PIs are doing.
: But do know what happens to students who actually do plan stay for a PhD?
: The situation made it a lot more difficult for them to get accepted. Don’t
: tell me that it’s good for them not to get into PhD especially Bio.
: Borrowing your words, don’t decide for them what’s good for them. They
: know, and let them decide. The fact is that they DO want to get into a PhD
: program, but what other people have done made many PIs hesitate. So now the
: new applicants complain “why should we pay for earlier people’s behavior?
: ” Well, that is exactly what you suggested, if you cannot afford the risk,
| a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 17
The deal? Contracts exist in any field.
1) A contract says two year stay, so you cannt quit the job before that?
Companies can fire you before the two-year mark.
2) Lets say you and your postdoc sign a two-year contract, so he has to stay
? if you are not satisfied with his performance in 6 months, what will u do?
fire him, right? many PIs do that. Then where is the contract? Oh, contract
is only to protect your right, not emploees'?
who is selfish? lol. It is a free market. Again, if it is a promising field,
you wont worry about that someone may leave. Only in Bio field, PIs try
their best to keep a cheap labor by all means including lies, threats, and
so on.
No offense to you, I am not saying you are a bad PI. Just want this student
to get all information and not get misguided.
After all, the student's future is what he should care the most. Don't think
you will owe your boss, no you dont. He will not feel guilty when he feels
unsatisfied with you and fire you in two years.
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: Also for your comment, if you cannot afford the risk, then do not take a
: student. I actually agree. And that’s what a lot of other PIs are doing.
: But do know what happens to students who actually do plan stay for a PhD?
: The situation made it a lot more difficult for them to get accepted. Don’t
: tell me that it’s good for them not to get into PhD especially Bio.
: Borrowing your words, don’t decide for them what’s good for them. They
: know, and let them decide. The fact is that they DO want to get into a PhD
: program, but what other people have done made many PIs hesitate. So now the
: new applicants complain “why should we pay for earlier people’s behavior?
: ” Well, that is exactly what you suggested, if you cannot afford the risk,
| P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 18 I think you misunderstood me. I never said no one can quit before a contract
is over, what I was emphasizing is that if someone is basically cheating at
the very beginning, it's a shame. Things can happen in the middle, if that
was not foreseen, yes, I have no problem with it. As I said, it even
happened with my lab, and I accepted it. If I have a contract with a post-
doc, yes, I still can fire him if he does not perform well or I lose grant,
but that's all written in the offer --conditional to satisfactory
performance and availability of funding. of course, the post-doc can also
quit if he does not like my lab. In fact I accepted someone who quit from an
Ivy school lab and came to mine -- then of course I should also accept if
someone quits my lab and goes somewhere else. But that is all conditional to
one thing: something unforeseen happened in the process. If the student
knew he would not complete PhD, but for the sake of getting to the US or for
the sake of getting fellowship, he still accepts it, well, it's still legal
, yes, but I think we have more to worry about than just being lawful.
Otherwise, the professor involved can also just write a very bad letter,
well , that's also legal. So now does the student benefit? Based one what
you said, it's a free market, and so the professor can say the same, and
just go like I think he is a dishonest person and I'm going to put that in
the letter. What can you do? I'm not saying which class people are good or
bad -- there is no such thing. You can find all kinds people at any level.
JP professors and JP student alike.
stay
do?
contract
field,
【在 a**********2 的大作中提到】
:
: The deal? Contracts exist in any field.
: 1) A contract says two year stay, so you cannt quit the job before that?
: Companies can fire you before the two-year mark.
: 2) Lets say you and your postdoc sign a two-year contract, so he has to stay
: ? if you are not satisfied with his performance in 6 months, what will u do?
: fire him, right? many PIs do that. Then where is the contract? Oh, contract
: is only to protect your right, not emploees'?
: who is selfish? lol. It is a free market. Again, if it is a promising field,
: you wont worry about that someone may leave. Only in Bio field, PIs try
| r*********l
发帖数: 1279 | 19 Pi不会不知道fellowship不是老板给钱吧？人家owe你啥？
is
under
,
something
.
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: I know I think like that because I’m a PI. I agree the student’s future is
: more important. However, the deal was that he is offered a fellowship under
: the condition that he would stay for a PhD degree. If he thought that was
: NOT good for his future, then he DID NOT have to accept the offer. Instead,
: accept something better for his future, not something bad for his future.
: Having said that, I do agree that if something happens in the middle,
: unexpected at the beginning, it understandable that he quits for something
: that suits him better. So I am not saying no one is allowed to quit at all.
: Even then, it does not mean that the student does not owe anything. It’s
: just his mistake is forgiven. He still owes a favor. I had two Chinese
| T*********s
发帖数: 17839 | 20 羊毛出在羊身上
老板要给学校交钱
老板，哦，这个名字真讽刺，
不知道有几个教授能坦然拒绝这个称呼
【在 r*********l 的大作中提到】
: Pi不会不知道fellowship不是老板给钱吧？人家owe你啥？
:
: is
: under
: ,
: something
: .
| | | P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 21 That's all my indirect cost from my grant.
【在 r*********l 的大作中提到】
: Pi不会不知道fellowship不是老板给钱吧？人家owe你啥？
:
: is
: under
: ,
: something
: .
| P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 22 刚刚讨论其实都跑题了。 总结一下。 问题的焦点不在于学生有没有权利Quit. 作为PI
, 我还是说， 答案是肯定的。 但是， 你有权利Quit， 不等于PI有义务给你写好的推
荐信。 两 回事。 如果觉得因为自己有权利Quit， 所以PI就有义务给写好的推荐信，
那就过分了。你有你的权利， 人家有人家的权利。 同理， 如果一个博士后在PI看来
不合格， 合法的把他解雇了。 你说， 因为是合法的， PI 还能指望那博士后说他好
话吗？ 这是问题的症结。 这里一些人既要抄 PI 鱿鱼， 又要PI说他好话 （推荐信）
。 这和PI指望被他合法解雇的博士后说他好话有什么本质上的区别？ 当然， 又有人
说了， 学生是弱势， 应该照顾。 哈哈，这又回到道德上来了。 刚刚还一口一个权利
， 法律的， 现在又给上道德课了。 行。道德就道德。既然是道德， 那就不是义务。
我高兴我就帮你忙， 不然就不帮。你给我一个很让人同情的理由你为什么要抄我鱿鱼
，而我自己所受的伤害又还可以承受， 我就既往不咎。 不然， 你摆明了是来骗我的
， 我做过一回傻子冤大头， 决不会再做第二回。祝你在没有推荐信的情况下早日找到
工作！
【在 f*****a 的大作中提到】
: 我是一名PhD新生，拿的是学校的Fellowship，Spring 2013入学，现由于家庭原因决定
: 转master然后尽快开始工作，不知该如何跟系里处理这件事情呢？
: 若入学一开始就跟assigned advisor（或者系里其他自己想跟的导师）说明自己只能承
: 诺读master，不是很sure是否能够完成PhD的话，会不会没有导师要我呢？若有导师要
: 我的话，系里会不会把我的Fellowship取消呢？
: 第二种方案就是开始跟系里自己想跟的导师面谈时，不提转master的事儿，等拿到
: master学位后走人，不过自己觉得这个方案有些伤人品，另外，听说找工作时还会要求
: References，这样肯定拿不到什么好的References了，对找工作是否十分不利呢？
: 请给位前辈给一下建议，我该如何做好呢？非常感谢！
| a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 23 See? Use recommendation letter to threaten people... Place yourself on the
right position. He can find a job without using direct advisor's letter.
I am not saying he should offend his boss, that's why I pointed in the first
reply that he should try to find a nice boss instead of an asshole and try
to maintain a good relationship with the boss. For many American PIs, they
still write good letters for students even if they quit. So please don't use
this to
threaten people. If you do, that only means your EQ is very low and you
should watch out for your further promotion. Sorry,I don't usually criticize
people, but your threatening people with recommendation letter totally
betray yourself.
PI
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: 刚刚讨论其实都跑题了。 总结一下。 问题的焦点不在于学生有没有权利Quit. 作为PI
: , 我还是说， 答案是肯定的。 但是， 你有权利Quit， 不等于PI有义务给你写好的推
: 荐信。 两 回事。 如果觉得因为自己有权利Quit， 所以PI就有义务给写好的推荐信，
: 那就过分了。你有你的权利， 人家有人家的权利。 同理， 如果一个博士后在PI看来
: 不合格， 合法的把他解雇了。 你说， 因为是合法的， PI 还能指望那博士后说他好
: 话吗？ 这是问题的症结。 这里一些人既要抄 PI 鱿鱼， 又要PI说他好话 （推荐信）
: 。 这和PI指望被他合法解雇的博士后说他好话有什么本质上的区别？ 当然， 又有人
: 说了， 学生是弱势， 应该照顾。 哈哈，这又回到道德上来了。 刚刚还一口一个权利
: ， 法律的， 现在又给上道德课了。 行。道德就道德。既然是道德， 那就不是义务。
: 我高兴我就帮你忙， 不然就不帮。你给我一个很让人同情的理由你为什么要抄我鱿鱼
| P*******1
发帖数: 169 | 24 “For many American PIs, they still write good letters for students even if
they quit.”
So what? So did I. I wrote two letters for my students who quit in the
middle. I said, give me a reasonable reason! This student is already
planning to quit before he even comes. How many American PIs do you know? I
have plenty of them around me that complain a lot about current Chinese
students, and for “National” reasons I had to defend for them, trying to
look for excuses for them. One American professor next door to me directly
shouted at his Chinese student “get out of my lab!”. And I also know
another American PI (white, male, full prof) fired his Chinese student
because he spent no more than 2 hrs a day in the lab for 4 month, fooling
his PI by saying "I'm going to take some math course to help statistics
analysis". The PI said OK, thinking it was related to his work because they
do use complicated stats. it turns out the student was taking Financial math
. The PI did not hesitate to fire him. The student went for a defense for
MSc degree. Yes it was horrible. They even were saying not to give him even
MSc. I had to help by saying give him another chance to re-write thesis. The
student was grateful to me. Anyways, no recommendation letter from that PI.
And the student went back to China. I do not know what happened to him
later.
In fact, after that, because of the recent behaviors of Chinese students a
lot American professors simply do not take Chinese students. There is none
in the 5 labs around me! Never
mind writing a letter, they have no one to write for. By the way, if your
boss fired you, will you be nice enough to say good words about him? If you
are not so nice, what makes you expect others be so nice? If you are Chinese
, you may have heard this: 己所不欲， 勿施与人。 Anyway, you twist things
too much, we have no common grounds to discuss anymore. I will no longer
respond your comments, say whatever that pleases you.
AND, below is a copy of the letter written by your nice American Professors:
Dear xxx:
I would like to inform you of the situation relevant to Chinese graduate
students here, at least at our department, which makes it very difficult for
us to accept graduate students from China in the future.
Over about one year period, we have had 6 Chinese Ph.D. students quit their
RAship and Ph.D. studies. The reason for them to leave was not that they
could not continue, it was rather because they want to have a job now (a
higher salary, with a hope that the companies will apply for their green
card status). They came with their promises to pursue their Ph.D. degrees,
we paid tuition for them to take courses for their Master degree, and we
taught and helped them in their research capabilities. Once they got their M
.S. degree in Mechanical Engeering, because of the excellent job market in
the U.S. at this time, it is relatively easy for them to find a job. In a
way we felt that we were used as a step for those Chinese students to come
here, and get their master’s degree, then get their jobs. We pay
approximately $45-50 K/year for each Ph.D. student, including the tuition,
health insurance, various fees, lab and computer fees, and monthly salary,
we also put a lot of time and efforts for them. They (most of them) also did
good research work as assistants. However, we don’t get credit because we
don’t produce PH.D’s, which is one of our major purposes as an institution
of high education. On the other hand, they have their particular interests
which are also understandable, for example, financial pressure, and wishes
to have their green card applications on the way asap.
This situation also happened to my Chinese Ph.D. student. He is very
talented and did a good job in research. However, after he got his M.S. in M
.E., he resigned very recently. We still let him stay here presently (with
salary) for one more month, otherwise he will have to repay his tuition,
which is over $10K. Although we are very considerate for those students, the
consequences are obvious:
(1) It greatly degraded the reputation of Chinese graduate students who
apply for admission. Some professors address those as “very unethical”, “
you really cannot trust them when they promise you to pursue their Ph.D.
degrees under your supervision”, “you feel you are so stupid as cheated by
your own student”. It really created some resentment. Actually, I know, as
of this time, there are a couple of more students looking for a job or
already got a job offer, but not telling their advisers. They will quit at
the last minute before they leave. This situation will certainly get
backfired, and the damage will mostly be transferred onto the future
applicants from China.
(2) Some professors or research scientists have already made their decisions
not to consider Chinese student applications. Although it should not and
cannot be a policy, it is the individual’s decision in selecting future Ph.
D. students with preference, and in my opinion, with good reasons. It will
make it much more difficult for us to bring in Ph.D. students from China.
For example, as you know, I was looking for one or two Ph.D. students later
this year, and I have a vacancy for a Ph.D. student now. But I will not
consider Chinese applicants. At the same time I feel truely sorry, for I
know, especially many graduate students from Tsinghua University of very
high qualifications sent email applications to me (and to other professors),
including yourself. Now I have to inform you that please try your
applications elsewhere, or other professors.
In our department, many Chinese graduate students know me and we have a very
friendly relationships. The faculty members know that too. One told me: “
You try to help them, then they screw you up!”
I spent time to write this email message, for your information and
considerations, as to how this situation may be somehow alleviated. You may
discuss this with your close friends and classmates, I am not sure you
should broadly propagate this message. But I did present a fact and an
opinion.——
first
try
use
criticize
【在 a**********2 的大作中提到】
: See? Use recommendation letter to threaten people... Place yourself on the
: right position. He can find a job without using direct advisor's letter.
: I am not saying he should offend his boss, that's why I pointed in the first
: reply that he should try to find a nice boss instead of an asshole and try
: to maintain a good relationship with the boss. For many American PIs, they
: still write good letters for students even if they quit. So please don't use
: this to
: threaten people. If you do, that only means your EQ is very low and you
: should watch out for your further promotion. Sorry,I don't usually criticize
: people, but your threatening people with recommendation letter totally
| a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 25 Well, to be fair, It's good for Chinese students not to jump to the bio
black hole anymore and destroy their future. Even STEM act doesn't include
bio major. Sarcastic, right? No comments on other majors.
So if in bio field, don't hesitate to quit in 2 years. For other fields like
CS, EE, probably it's fine to finish phd since job opportunities are always
there.
if
I
,
【在 P*******1 的大作中提到】
: “For many American PIs, they still write good letters for students even if
: they quit.”
: So what? So did I. I wrote two letters for my students who quit in the
: middle. I said, give me a reasonable reason! This student is already
: planning to quit before he even comes. How many American PIs do you know? I
: have plenty of them around me that complain a lot about current Chinese
: students, and for “National” reasons I had to defend for them, trying to
: look for excuses for them. One American professor next door to me directly
: shouted at his Chinese student “get out of my lab!”. And I also know
: another American PI (white, male, full prof) fired his Chinese student
| v*********n
发帖数: 3983 | | G****2
发帖数: 211 | 27 反正别做伤人品的事情，想读master就别拿fellow | a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 28 It doesn't ”shang ren pin”. | v*********n
发帖数: 3983 | 29 楼主跪求aprilfool002收你做学生吧。
一个人如果总是站在对自己有利的角度说话，而完全不考虑其他相关人的感受和利益，
是自私的。我就不信aprilfool002是教授或院长的话还会这么理直气壮的支持楼主。 | Z*m
发帖数: 13 | | | | Z*m
发帖数: 13 | 31 do what's right and not what's convenient. when you are older and look back
you should be proud of yourself make the right decision.
of course, others' opinions do not compare to your own situation so only you
can make the decision. I hope it's worth it should you do either way. | l****w
发帖数: 1281 | 32 没错，我们学校一个系就因为这个停招中国大陆学生好几年。先搞清楚你们学校是不是
给master吧，有很多学校为了防止学生这样做，不给master的。
【在 G****2 的大作中提到】
: 反正别做伤人品的事情，想读master就别拿fellow
| h*******r
发帖数: 344 | 33 学校接受并资助你来学校读Ph.D.。 然后你开学报到时说，我不打算读Ph.D.。学校方
除了“那你就不用报到了”，还能说什么？想读Master是另外一件事，你可以申请，也
可以用Ph.D.的入学资格要求学校接受你读Master并给你Ph.D.的资助。但是，学校方不
owe你任何东西，学校有权做出同意和不同意的决定。开口之前把这个想清楚了。
读到中途，提出退学，当然可以。但，你是想读到中途，提出退学，还拿个Master。这
最后一个要求不是你能决定的，学校拥有全部权利决定给不给你。你只能赌学校会给你
Master，但要耗去两年的生命才能看到赌博的结果。Fellowship会有条款针对退学问题
，估计你不会遇到大的问题。
关于以后的推荐信问题，必须澄清一点，“推荐信”英文不是recommendation letter
，而是reference letter，reference是“参考”的意思。有什么区别？逻辑上，前者
必须是好话，后者是给出好坏都可以的客观的参考资料。想Professor为你提供好的客
观参考资料给未来的雇主或教授，有两种办法：客观上做得很好，或者，客观上做得不
好让Professor说你做得很好。后果可能有如下：
（1）客观上做得很好，Professor说你做得很好。（绝大多数，正常的教授）
（2）客观上做得很好，Professor说你做得不好。（极少数，变态教授）
（3）客观上做得不好，Professor说你做得很好。（极少数，教授说假话）
（4）客观上做得不好，Professor说你做得不好。（绝大多数，正常的教授） | w**z
发帖数: 8232 | 34 不想读，找RA, 再不行，借钱上 , 找到工作再还。做事还是要有底线的。
【在 f*****a 的大作中提到】
: 我是一名PhD新生，拿的是学校的Fellowship，Spring 2013入学，现由于家庭原因决定
: 转master然后尽快开始工作，不知该如何跟系里处理这件事情呢？
: 若入学一开始就跟assigned advisor（或者系里其他自己想跟的导师）说明自己只能承
: 诺读master，不是很sure是否能够完成PhD的话，会不会没有导师要我呢？若有导师要
: 我的话，系里会不会把我的Fellowship取消呢？
: 第二种方案就是开始跟系里自己想跟的导师面谈时，不提转master的事儿，等拿到
: master学位后走人，不过自己觉得这个方案有些伤人品，另外，听说找工作时还会要求
: References，这样肯定拿不到什么好的References了，对找工作是否十分不利呢？
: 请给位前辈给一下建议，我该如何做好呢？非常感谢！
| x**********d
发帖数: 693 | 35 没什么伤rp的。。我们学校有时候还嫌phd多让转master呢，难道这不损rp? 所以还是
顾自己好，拿钱对，拿到学位走人就是了
【在 f*****a 的大作中提到】
: 我是一名PhD新生，拿的是学校的Fellowship，Spring 2013入学，现由于家庭原因决定
: 转master然后尽快开始工作，不知该如何跟系里处理这件事情呢？
: 若入学一开始就跟assigned advisor（或者系里其他自己想跟的导师）说明自己只能承
: 诺读master，不是很sure是否能够完成PhD的话，会不会没有导师要我呢？若有导师要
: 我的话，系里会不会把我的Fellowship取消呢？
: 第二种方案就是开始跟系里自己想跟的导师面谈时，不提转master的事儿，等拿到
: master学位后走人，不过自己觉得这个方案有些伤人品，另外，听说找工作时还会要求
: References，这样肯定拿不到什么好的References了，对找工作是否十分不利呢？
: 请给位前辈给一下建议，我该如何做好呢？非常感谢！
| S******2
发帖数: 10 | | r*********l
发帖数: 1279 | 37 是的，多的就是头两年免费用人期过了，老板说没钱了你们拿ms走人或者换老板吧
不知道这算极少数不道德现象吗？否则，就是business，有风险有收益，没什么owe不
owe的
【在 x**********d 的大作中提到】
: 没什么伤rp的。。我们学校有时候还嫌phd多让转master呢，难道这不损rp? 所以还是
: 顾自己好，拿钱对，拿到学位走人就是了
| v*****k
发帖数: 7798 | 38 这个要看你学啥了。学CS的屁事没有，没人看推荐信。学生物的就自求多福吧 | h*******r
发帖数: 344 | 39 人品好坏的标准不是这个版上讨论的问题。就楼主而言，未来教授以及潜在的雇主脑子
里的人品好坏的标准就是他必须遵守，不能越线的绝对的标准。让自己的行为不要超出
现行的社会游戏规则，才能在现行的社会立足。这不是道德问题，是生存技巧能力。
大家一起来猜测一下，以未来教授以及潜在的雇主脑子里的人品好坏的标准，楼主的计
划是好是坏，到有些现实意义。每个人发表一下I think伤人品或不伤人品，没有任何
意义。 | a**********2
发帖数: 3726 | 40 Exactly.
【在 x**********d 的大作中提到】
: 没什么伤rp的。。我们学校有时候还嫌phd多让转master呢，难道这不损rp? 所以还是
: 顾自己好，拿钱对，拿到学位走人就是了
|
|
