e**********2
发帖数: 46 | 1 没有高估两校，只是plain fact, 他们两个学校的学生确实顺一些，在很多program是
主力。这没什么了不起的，所以我说path dependent。李彦宏要像fallenembers那样在
意出身在意这些琐碎，那他还活不活呀？马云烂校毕业，又长成那样，那他是不是要自
杀啊？所以我说读top jd去big law打工就是挣碗饭吃。要发大财得自己干。中国未来
的核心领导层不在这些top jd里，他们在国内念土博士，当秘书，各旮旯做干部。在这
里混top jd的就是自我选择了marginalized的路，john thorton在foreign affairs专
文讲过我们这些可怜的中国留学生。呵呵。所以我说fallenembers没必要觉得这些东西
significant.
feel | I*****y
发帖数: 6402 | 2 呵呵，找到了这个文章。Long time coming
http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20080101faessay87101/john-l-thornton/long-time
-coming.html
【在 e**********2 的大作中提到】
: 没有高估两校，只是plain fact, 他们两个学校的学生确实顺一些，在很多program是
: 主力。这没什么了不起的，所以我说path dependent。李彦宏要像fallenembers那样在
: 意出身在意这些琐碎，那他还活不活呀？马云烂校毕业，又长成那样，那他是不是要自
: 杀啊？所以我说读top jd去big law打工就是挣碗饭吃。要发大财得自己干。中国未来
: 的核心领导层不在这些top jd里，他们在国内念土博士，当秘书，各旮旯做干部。在这
: 里混top jd的就是自我选择了marginalized的路，john thorton在foreign affairs专
: 文讲过我们这些可怜的中国留学生。呵呵。所以我说fallenembers没必要觉得这些东西
: significant.
:
: feel
| g*****e
发帖数: 16 | 3 Very good points!
【在 e**********2 的大作中提到】
: 没有高估两校，只是plain fact, 他们两个学校的学生确实顺一些，在很多program是
: 主力。这没什么了不起的，所以我说path dependent。李彦宏要像fallenembers那样在
: 意出身在意这些琐碎，那他还活不活呀？马云烂校毕业，又长成那样，那他是不是要自
: 杀啊？所以我说读top jd去big law打工就是挣碗饭吃。要发大财得自己干。中国未来
: 的核心领导层不在这些top jd里，他们在国内念土博士，当秘书，各旮旯做干部。在这
: 里混top jd的就是自我选择了marginalized的路，john thorton在foreign affairs专
: 文讲过我们这些可怜的中国留学生。呵呵。所以我说fallenembers没必要觉得这些东西
: significant.
:
: feel
| m*******r
发帖数: 481 | 4 IMHO, overall and statistically, the people out of T and B school are not
significant better than other people out of China's top school. If
considering the fact that China puts so much resource into this two schools,
the reward out of it is not that good. That is my point. The plain fact is,
too many people out of T and B schools feel too good toward themselves when
they are in US, their performances are just statistically in average level,
compared to other people from other top universities,
【在 e**********2 的大作中提到】
: 没有高估两校，只是plain fact, 他们两个学校的学生确实顺一些，在很多program是
: 主力。这没什么了不起的，所以我说path dependent。李彦宏要像fallenembers那样在
: 意出身在意这些琐碎，那他还活不活呀？马云烂校毕业，又长成那样，那他是不是要自
: 杀啊？所以我说读top jd去big law打工就是挣碗饭吃。要发大财得自己干。中国未来
: 的核心领导层不在这些top jd里，他们在国内念土博士，当秘书，各旮旯做干部。在这
: 里混top jd的就是自我选择了marginalized的路，john thorton在foreign affairs专
: 文讲过我们这些可怜的中国留学生。呵呵。所以我说fallenembers没必要觉得这些东西
: significant.
:
: feel
| e**********2
发帖数: 46 | 5 错了，那么容易搜到的不是，比这个老。
【在 I*****y 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，找到了这个文章。Long time coming
: http://www.foreignaffairs.org/20080101faessay87101/john-l-thornton/long-time
: -coming.html
| D**********s
发帖数: 320 | 6 One thing is for sure, a large number of JD students in T14 schools are from
PKU.
schools,
is,
when
level,
guys
【在 m*******r 的大作中提到】
: IMHO, overall and statistically, the people out of T and B school are not
: significant better than other people out of China's top school. If
: considering the fact that China puts so much resource into this two schools,
: the reward out of it is not that good. That is my point. The plain fact is,
: too many people out of T and B schools feel too good toward themselves when
: they are in US, their performances are just statistically in average level,
: compared to other people from other top universities,
| e**********2
发帖数: 46 | 7 统计上来说，两校或者说清华，还是要强一些的。可能你遇到的两校学生比较arrogant
，但就我的经验（大sample)，至少清华学生统计上来说，很humble,又实在。这可能也
解释了为什么他们政坛有作为吧？我举李彦宏(suny-buffalo)和马云(杭州师范+丑哥）作例子，不是给你看，是给fallenembers说，不要太在意这些琐碎，看到真正的big picture, 做该做的事情，不要那么拧巴。他偏执得近乎天桥上那些逢人就要拽着讲他theory的人了。
schools,
is,
when
level,
guys
【在 m*******r 的大作中提到】
: IMHO, overall and statistically, the people out of T and B school are not
: significant better than other people out of China's top school. If
: considering the fact that China puts so much resource into this two schools,
: the reward out of it is not that good. That is my point. The plain fact is,
: too many people out of T and B schools feel too good toward themselves when
: they are in US, their performances are just statistically in average level,
: compared to other people from other top universities,
| g*****e
发帖数: 16 | 8 Obviously PKUers are much stronger, especially in the legal profession.
政坛有作为 in China - what a joke! | e**********2
发帖数: 46 | 9 北大的兄弟不要这样鸡动好不好，人家提的头，说清华当官的多还当的大，我回了一下
而已。不要激动。哪个行当要做leader，都不容易，所以不要看轻国内那些当官的，他
们当中有些有点水平的。也不要觉得哪些行业就特别光辉或者decent, 觉得那些行业的
就很不得了，干的事儿就特有品。
【在 g*****e 的大作中提到】
: Obviously PKUers are much stronger, especially in the legal profession.
: 政坛有作为 in China - what a joke!
| g*****e
发帖数: 16 | 10 I don't 看轻国内那些当官的, because the majority of my college classmates
work for Chinese government. They are my brothers.
But, 政坛有作为? Even they will laugh at you. | | | e**********2
发帖数: 46 | 11 那我用词欠考虑，把“有作为”改成“混得大爬得高”，你看怎么样？不行我再改。
【在 g*****e 的大作中提到】
: I don't 看轻国内那些当官的, because the majority of my college classmates
: work for Chinese government. They are my brothers.
: But, 政坛有作为? Even they will laugh at you.
| g*****e
发帖数: 16 | 12 I guess you probably don't know much about Chinese JD students and lawyers
in the U.S. Otherwise, you should know immediately that PKUers are
disproportionately represented in this pool.
In my college class of no more than 55, 3 got JDs in the U.S. later on.
But you do have some valid points. As long as any Chinese gets a JD, the
guy can make a decent living in terms of money value somewhere (not
necessarily in the U.S.) but is almost automatically out of Chinese
mainstream. | e**********2
发帖数: 46 | 13 兄弟我只是说清北在很多Program里是主力，在我所知道的一些top jd program里，北
大也有些人。你算比例算的是你本科里3/55拿美国jd, 也不算太少了，而你这个数据也
跟你的论点不太相关。
另外，进不了核心层，做个技术型的还可以，如高西庆。
要哪儿不合适，我再改，你言语。
【在 g*****e 的大作中提到】
: I guess you probably don't know much about Chinese JD students and lawyers
: in the U.S. Otherwise, you should know immediately that PKUers are
: disproportionately represented in this pool.
: In my college class of no more than 55, 3 got JDs in the U.S. later on.
: But you do have some valid points. As long as any Chinese gets a JD, the
: guy can make a decent living in terms of money value somewhere (not
: necessarily in the U.S.) but is almost automatically out of Chinese
: mainstream.
| g*****e
发帖数: 16 | 14 I tried to counter two points of yours:
(1)统计上来说，两校或者说清华，还是要强一些的。
For legal profession, this assertion is deadly wrong.
(3)可能你遇到的两校学生比较arrogant，但就我的经验（大sample)，至少清华学生统
计上来说，很humble,又实在。这可能也解释了为什么他们政坛有作为吧？
清华学生政坛有作为 is just not true, because 政坛有作为 cannot be defined
and measured in China. Not even Hu Jintao can claim to be a political
leader of 政坛有作为. To be frank, only mediocre folks can survive in
Chinese politics. Only history can judge. Most likely they (including Hu
Jintao) will all go to | m*******r
发帖数: 481 | 15 Based on my sample, statistically TSUers are more humble than PKUers. More
interesting is, the stronger and smarter a TSUer is, more humber he/she is.
However, some very weak TSUers are very arrogant, hehe.
IMHO, in JD program, why so many PKUers? We know most Chinese come to US for
ph.Ds. in science and engineering. Partly, quite a few PKUers can not stand
the boring and painful research in chemistry or biology, and they switch to
law. It is not a bad thing actually. Similar situation may also
【在 e**********2 的大作中提到】
: 统计上来说，两校或者说清华，还是要强一些的。可能你遇到的两校学生比较arrogant
: ，但就我的经验（大sample)，至少清华学生统计上来说，很humble,又实在。这可能也
: 解释了为什么他们政坛有作为吧？我举李彦宏(suny-buffalo)和马云(杭州师范+丑哥）作例子，不是给你看，是给fallenembers说，不要太在意这些琐碎，看到真正的big picture, 做该做的事情，不要那么拧巴。他偏执得近乎天桥上那些逢人就要拽着讲他theory的人了。
:
: schools,
: is,
: when
: level,
: guys
| z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 16 I, for one, think Mr. Bush is better than Mr. Hu. He is way more funny and
candid, and he told you frankly why he had to lie sometimes.
But I agree with your point that sometimes PKUer lack the resolve to go the extra mile to live up to one's full potential, myself included.
.
for
stand
to
【在 m*******r 的大作中提到】
: Based on my sample, statistically TSUers are more humble than PKUers. More
: interesting is, the stronger and smarter a TSUer is, more humber he/she is.
: However, some very weak TSUers are very arrogant, hehe.
: IMHO, in JD program, why so many PKUers? We know most Chinese come to US for
: ph.Ds. in science and engineering. Partly, quite a few PKUers can not stand
: the boring and painful research in chemistry or biology, and they switch to
: law. It is not a bad thing actually. Similar situation may also
| D**********s
发帖数: 320 | 17 Actually many pkuers in law schools are hardworking students and many of
them are from PKU law school.
.
for
stand
to
【在 m*******r 的大作中提到】
: Based on my sample, statistically TSUers are more humble than PKUers. More
: interesting is, the stronger and smarter a TSUer is, more humber he/she is.
: However, some very weak TSUers are very arrogant, hehe.
: IMHO, in JD program, why so many PKUers? We know most Chinese come to US for
: ph.Ds. in science and engineering. Partly, quite a few PKUers can not stand
: the boring and painful research in chemistry or biology, and they switch to
: law. It is not a bad thing actually. Similar situation may also
| n***n
发帖数: 57 | 18 偶不知道楼主到底见过多少北清的，就敢下这样的结论。北清不管出来没出来，牛人都
很多，而且其实比你想象的低调，特别是在国内做得好的，很多人真的很低调，而且根
本就没有想过出国。毕业这么多年了，不管是学术上，商业上还是政坛来讲，偶同学中
做的最好的都在国内。同学中有上华尔街的薪水肯定不低，至少比发考题强，可是同学
国内做的最好的已经是国内最好的基金经理之一，每年几十个B的人民币在手中运作。
出了国的也有去法学院的，但是混得最开心的也就是回国拿Global Pay,官场基本是没
戏了，当初立志做官的已经有人经历了从团中央到地方政府副职的历练，而且现在还在
搞竞选实验。就连搞学术的，出国的最好的发文章都发不过北清做的最好的同学。
顺不是没有原因的。要不北清是那么容易上的？
【在 e**********2 的大作中提到】
: 没有高估两校，只是plain fact, 他们两个学校的学生确实顺一些，在很多program是
: 主力。这没什么了不起的，所以我说path dependent。李彦宏要像fallenembers那样在
: 意出身在意这些琐碎，那他还活不活呀？马云烂校毕业，又长成那样，那他是不是要自
: 杀啊？所以我说读top jd去big law打工就是挣碗饭吃。要发大财得自己干。中国未来
: 的核心领导层不在这些top jd里，他们在国内念土博士，当秘书，各旮旯做干部。在这
: 里混top jd的就是自我选择了marginalized的路，john thorton在foreign affairs专
: 文讲过我们这些可怜的中国留学生。呵呵。所以我说fallenembers没必要觉得这些东西
: significant.
:
: feel
| e**********2
发帖数: 46 | 19 there is a recent science article about top phd feeder schools. take a look?
.
for
stand
to
【在 m*******r 的大作中提到】
: Based on my sample, statistically TSUers are more humble than PKUers. More
: interesting is, the stronger and smarter a TSUer is, more humber he/she is.
: However, some very weak TSUers are very arrogant, hehe.
: IMHO, in JD program, why so many PKUers? We know most Chinese come to US for
: ph.Ds. in science and engineering. Partly, quite a few PKUers can not stand
: the boring and painful research in chemistry or biology, and they switch to
: law. It is not a bad thing actually. Similar situation may also
| e**********2
发帖数: 46 | 20 兄弟，我说"没什么了不起，path dependent"不是小看两校，原贴说这个是给
fallenembers看的，他太在意出身和琐碎,所以我写了这几句。
我当然知道“path dependent"有它自身的原因，呵呵。我就是两校之一的，我这样
写是不是也是humble的体现呢？哈哈。
【在 n***n 的大作中提到】
: 偶不知道楼主到底见过多少北清的，就敢下这样的结论。北清不管出来没出来，牛人都
: 很多，而且其实比你想象的低调，特别是在国内做得好的，很多人真的很低调，而且根
: 本就没有想过出国。毕业这么多年了，不管是学术上，商业上还是政坛来讲，偶同学中
: 做的最好的都在国内。同学中有上华尔街的薪水肯定不低，至少比发考题强，可是同学
: 国内做的最好的已经是国内最好的基金经理之一，每年几十个B的人民币在手中运作。
: 出了国的也有去法学院的，但是混得最开心的也就是回国拿Global Pay,官场基本是没
: 戏了，当初立志做官的已经有人经历了从团中央到地方政府副职的历练，而且现在还在
: 搞竞选实验。就连搞学术的，出国的最好的发文章都发不过北清做的最好的同学。
: 顺不是没有原因的。要不北清是那么容易上的？
| | | m******g
发帖数: 2 | 21 I personally know 4 USTCers who are currently practicing law in top US law
firms. I am sure there are more USTCers. Care to throw out some numbers for
TSusers and PKUers?
.
for
stand
to
【在 m*******r 的大作中提到】
: Based on my sample, statistically TSUers are more humble than PKUers. More
: interesting is, the stronger and smarter a TSUer is, more humber he/she is.
: However, some very weak TSUers are very arrogant, hehe.
: IMHO, in JD program, why so many PKUers? We know most Chinese come to US for
: ph.Ds. in science and engineering. Partly, quite a few PKUers can not stand
: the boring and painful research in chemistry or biology, and they switch to
: law. It is not a bad thing actually. Similar situation may also
| p*******r
发帖数: 145 | 22 看top US Law firms排到前几了。。如果Top算是前20的话，PKU应该起码有40个吧。
THU的要少得多，10个左右？
for
【在 m******g 的大作中提到】
: I personally know 4 USTCers who are currently practicing law in top US law
: firms. I am sure there are more USTCers. Care to throw out some numbers for
: TSusers and PKUers?
:
: .
: for
: stand
: to
| m*******r
发帖数: 481 | 23 That makes more sense to me. SJTU, USTC, and other top Sci & Engi China
schools have no law schools. If those guys are forced to enter the law in US
, it is totally a different situation.
from
【在 D**********s 的大作中提到】
: One thing is for sure, a large number of JD students in T14 schools are from
: PKU.
:
: schools,
: is,
: when
: level,
: guys
| m*******r
发帖数: 481 | 24 IMHO, funny is not the most important characteristic for a leader of a big
country. Candid is on the face, not in the heart, just my judgment. In the
long run, B turned around this superpower into a downward direction.
the extra mile to live up to one's full potential, myself included.
【在 z***e 的大作中提到】
: I, for one, think Mr. Bush is better than Mr. Hu. He is way more funny and
: candid, and he told you frankly why he had to lie sometimes.
: But I agree with your point that sometimes PKUer lack the resolve to go the extra mile to live up to one's full potential, myself included.
:
: .
: for
: stand
: to
| m*******r
发帖数: 481 | 25 Any China's top schools, Non-T&B in Beijing, can come up with a long list of
so called "Niu Ren", academia, industry, wall street, you name it. As far
as I know, for industry influence, SJTU and Zhejiang U are at least not
lower than T & B. For wall street, how about USTC? Academia, USTC and Fudan
are both comparable to T&B. Certainly it is not easy to go to T&B. It needs
very high scores gauged with one test. That does not mean anything here in
US, does it?
【在 n***n 的大作中提到】
: 偶不知道楼主到底见过多少北清的，就敢下这样的结论。北清不管出来没出来，牛人都
: 很多，而且其实比你想象的低调，特别是在国内做得好的，很多人真的很低调，而且根
: 本就没有想过出国。毕业这么多年了，不管是学术上，商业上还是政坛来讲，偶同学中
: 做的最好的都在国内。同学中有上华尔街的薪水肯定不低，至少比发考题强，可是同学
: 国内做的最好的已经是国内最好的基金经理之一，每年几十个B的人民币在手中运作。
: 出了国的也有去法学院的，但是混得最开心的也就是回国拿Global Pay,官场基本是没
: 戏了，当初立志做官的已经有人经历了从团中央到地方政府副职的历练，而且现在还在
: 搞竞选实验。就连搞学术的，出国的最好的发文章都发不过北清做的最好的同学。
: 顺不是没有原因的。要不北清是那么容易上的？
| m*******r
发帖数: 481 | 26 Looked at it very well. At least the edge for T&B to USTC is not large. If
you consider the small size of it, no edge at all.
look?
【在 e**********2 的大作中提到】
: there is a recent science article about top phd feeder schools. take a look?
:
: .
: for
: stand
: to
| z***e
发帖数: 1757 | 27 let's agree to disagree.
【在 m*******r 的大作中提到】
: IMHO, funny is not the most important characteristic for a leader of a big
: country. Candid is on the face, not in the heart, just my judgment. In the
: long run, B turned around this superpower into a downward direction.
:
: the extra mile to live up to one's full potential, myself included.
| f*******n
发帖数: 214 | 28 在这里专门开个帖子讨论两校就证明了两校的确是在国内高校中无人能敌的。这要区分
一个概念，两校是否等于两校学生？
每个学校都有优秀的学生也有差的学生，世界任何大学都不例外。 |
|
