f***a
发帖数: 11477 | 1 室外最开始100度，室内从傍晚开始，85度到78度化了4个小时，还是太阳下山之后。风
向调了，风的温度还比较冷，但是室温就是降得慢。这是什么原因啊？只有一层的平房
。 |
s**********d
发帖数: 36899 | |
S*******E
发帖数: 2498 | 3 你家要不是特别的大，风的温度要是比较冷的话，该是保温问题，看看是不是哪个通风
口忘了关了 |
G*****r
发帖数: 369 | 4 正常的，如果风够冷又能降得下来的话。
中央空调不要频繁开关，白天家里没人的话温度设高一点就行了。把温度从85降到78耗
的电很可能比白天全天设80度的还要高。除了降温还得除湿，很耗电耗时的。 |
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 5 讲讲道理？为什么耗电更多？
【在 G*****r 的大作中提到】
: 正常的，如果风够冷又能降得下来的话。
: 中央空调不要频繁开关，白天家里没人的话温度设高一点就行了。把温度从85降到78耗
: 的电很可能比白天全天设80度的还要高。除了降温还得除湿，很耗电耗时的。
|
N******p
发帖数: 2777 | 6 嗯，85到78跨度还是挺大的，屋子大或者保温不好再加上空调制冷量小，用几个小时挺
正常的。
【在 G*****r 的大作中提到】
: 正常的，如果风够冷又能降得下来的话。
: 中央空调不要频繁开关，白天家里没人的话温度设高一点就行了。把温度从85降到78耗
: 的电很可能比白天全天设80度的还要高。除了降温还得除湿，很耗电耗时的。
|
G*****r
发帖数: 369 | 7 It's a myth that leaving the AC on while you're away at work uses less
energy than turning it on when you get home. Here's why:
Heat goes to where it's not. That's why heat from outside goes into your
cooler home. With the AC off, at some point your house will be so hot it can
't absorb any more heat. When you come home and turn the AC on, the AC
removes all that heat.
But if the AC is on when you're gone, then you've turned your house into a
heat magnet. But keeping it artificially cool, there' |
g*******2
发帖数: 3306 | 8 用电扇。人在哪儿开哪儿的电扇。
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 室外最开始100度，室内从傍晚开始，85度到78度化了4个小时，还是太阳下山之后。风
: 向调了，风的温度还比较冷，但是室温就是降得慢。这是什么原因啊？只有一层的平房
: 。
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 9 显示这5k 5k的会比20K多啊。
can
【在 G*****r 的大作中提到】
: It's a myth that leaving the AC on while you're away at work uses less
: energy than turning it on when you get home. Here's why:
: Heat goes to where it's not. That's why heat from outside goes into your
: cooler home. With the AC off, at some point your house will be so hot it can
: 't absorb any more heat. When you come home and turn the AC on, the AC
: removes all that heat.
: But if the AC is on when you're gone, then you've turned your house into a
: heat magnet. But keeping it artificially cool, there'
|
G*****r
发帖数: 369 | 10 呵呵，没仔细读google到的东东...结果放了篇反对意见上来。
嗯，leave AC on很早以前在电力公司的宣传册上看到过，然后最近在新装的空调的说
明书上也看到过。这有个有点意思的帖子：
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080622021648AANNeOg
最后这个回帖好像比较靠谱，要不谁找温度湿度相似的两天试试，然后上来报告一下？
Depends on how well you house is insulated. Best way to tell is take a
reading at your electric meter then run tour a/c for 24 hours and take
another reading, minus the first meter reading from the second and that will
tell you how much electric you used. Then just run it when you need it
repeat t |
|
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 11 这明明是说如果白天没人的时候开着空调会耗更多的电
can
【在 G*****r 的大作中提到】
: It's a myth that leaving the AC on while you're away at work uses less
: energy than turning it on when you get home. Here's why:
: Heat goes to where it's not. That's why heat from outside goes into your
: cooler home. With the AC off, at some point your house will be so hot it can
: 't absorb any more heat. When you come home and turn the AC on, the AC
: removes all that heat.
: But if the AC is on when you're gone, then you've turned your house into a
: heat magnet. But keeping it artificially cool, there'
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 12 底下的回帖里air conditioning technician已经说了“It is less expensive to
turn it off when not in use”
一般情况下肯定是关掉省电的，你前面那篇文章已经解释的很清楚了。
will
【在 G*****r 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，没仔细读google到的东东...结果放了篇反对意见上来。
: 嗯，leave AC on很早以前在电力公司的宣传册上看到过，然后最近在新装的空调的说
: 明书上也看到过。这有个有点意思的帖子：
: http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20080622021648AANNeOg
: 最后这个回帖好像比较靠谱，要不谁找温度湿度相似的两天试试，然后上来报告一下？
: Depends on how well you house is insulated. Best way to tell is take a
: reading at your electric meter then run tour a/c for 24 hours and take
: another reading, minus the first meter reading from the second and that will
: tell you how much electric you used. Then just run it when you need it
: repeat t
|
T*U
发帖数: 22634 | 13 这个争议跟车板开车时是开窗还是开空调省油有一拼。
我还是觉得调高温度省电，至少是全国电视上是这么说的。 |
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 14 这个问题我记得版上以前就讨论过，说开着省电的基本是没学过物理的。
开车的问题有点不同，因为你开着窗风阻就会大，阻力跟速度平方成正比，也就是速度
很快的情况下还真有可能开窗更费油些。
【在 T*U 的大作中提到】
: 这个争议跟车板开车时是开窗还是开空调省油有一拼。
: 我还是觉得调高温度省电，至少是全国电视上是这么说的。
|
T*U
发帖数: 22634 | 15 车的那个有定论了，房子这个跟室外多少度还是有关的，可能有极限情况。
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 这个问题我记得版上以前就讨论过，说开着省电的基本是没学过物理的。
: 开车的问题有点不同，因为你开着窗风阻就会大，阻力跟速度平方成正比，也就是速度
: 很快的情况下还真有可能开窗更费油些。
|
m*****d
发帖数: 13718 | 16 空调是几吨的？和房子面积，绝热，窗户都有关系
如果白天没开空调，墙会持续散热直到平衡，降温是会慢点，不过4小时感觉稍微有点长
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 室外最开始100度，室内从傍晚开始，85度到78度化了4个小时，还是太阳下山之后。风
: 向调了，风的温度还比较冷，但是室温就是降得慢。这是什么原因啊？只有一层的平房
: 。
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 17 房子不可能完全绝热，只要是室外温度更高，热量就会从高温处往低温处传递，刚才他
的转帖已经详细解释了。特殊情况可能会有，但我们不是说的一般情况下么？
车的问题如果定论是关窗省油，那肯定是假设现代汽车车体设计得比较好，风阻在最大
速度下也不太大。绝对的定论是不可能有的。
【在 T*U 的大作中提到】
: 车的那个有定论了，房子这个跟室外多少度还是有关的，可能有极限情况。
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 18 不管怎样，为了舒适考虑，我会离开家会调到80+度，然后在回家前提前几小时降下来。
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 房子不可能完全绝热，只要是室外温度更高，热量就会从高温处往低温处传递，刚才他
: 的转帖已经详细解释了。特殊情况可能会有，但我们不是说的一般情况下么？
: 车的问题如果定论是关窗省油，那肯定是假设现代汽车车体设计得比较好，风阻在最大
: 速度下也不太大。绝对的定论是不可能有的。
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 19 恩，人活着不就是得过的舒服么，而且房子绝热好的话也多不了多少钱。
来。
【在 a9 的大作中提到】
: 不管怎样，为了舒适考虑，我会离开家会调到80+度，然后在回家前提前几小时降下来。
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 20 定论是啥啊？
【在 T*U 的大作中提到】
: 这个争议跟车板开车时是开窗还是开空调省油有一拼。
: 我还是觉得调高温度省电，至少是全国电视上是这么说的。
|
|
|
y******n
发帖数: 8667 | |
g*******2
发帖数: 3306 | 22 嗯，房子绝热是关键。
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 恩，人活着不就是得过的舒服么，而且房子绝热好的话也多不了多少钱。
:
: 来。
|
f***a
发帖数: 11477 | 23 大家的回帖太专业，看糊涂了
就是说建议早上离开时开到80度比回家从85度直接开省电？
那这样最好啦
我们这里晚上自己会冷到78度左右，应该还不难，明天就试试！ |
g******7
发帖数: 1532 | 24 Co-ask.
【在 a9 的大作中提到】
: 讲讲道理？为什么耗电更多？
|
g******7
发帖数: 1532 | 25 Did you read the article in English?
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 大家的回帖太专业，看糊涂了
: 就是说建议早上离开时开到80度比回家从85度直接开省电？
: 那这样最好啦
: 我们这里晚上自己会冷到78度左右，应该还不难，明天就试试！
|
f***a
发帖数: 11477 | 26 读了英文就糊涂了
好像取决于室外温度吧。。。。。
温差越大越应该整天开着？ |
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 27 ft,怎么理解的啊。那英文帖子明确说，没人在打开空调肯定要多费电。温差越大越不能整天开着。
你的thermostat可以programming么，让空调在你回家前一个小时工作就行了。
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 读了英文就糊涂了
: 好像取决于室外温度吧。。。。。
: 温差越大越应该整天开着？
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 28 Volumetric heat capacity (VHC) or volume-specific heat capacity is main
reason.
Which is the ability of a given volume of a substance to store internal
energy while undergoing a given temperature change, but without undergoing a
phase change. It is different from specific heat capacity in that the VHC
depends on the volume of the material, while the specific heat is based on
the mass of the material. If given a specific heat value of a substance, one
can convert it to the VHC by multiplying the
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 室外最开始100度，室内从傍晚开始，85度到78度化了4个小时，还是太阳下山之后。风
: 向调了，风的温度还比较冷，但是室温就是降得慢。这是什么原因啊？只有一层的平房
: 。
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 29 You are correct but you are using a big assumption which may not be correct
with most modern homes.
Years ago, houses are not built using very good insulating material or
technology. So their R value is very low. Most of the heat AC moves outside
is to counter the heat coming through your window and walls.
Most modern homes (especially the energy star or LEED certified home) are
insulated very well. Very little energy is used to maintain the temp by AC,
most of the AC energy is used to move the
【在 G*****r 的大作中提到】
: It's a myth that leaving the AC on while you're away at work uses less
: energy than turning it on when you get home. Here's why:
: Heat goes to where it's not. That's why heat from outside goes into your
: cooler home. With the AC off, at some point your house will be so hot it can
: 't absorb any more heat. When you come home and turn the AC on, the AC
: removes all that heat.
: But if the AC is on when you're gone, then you've turned your house into a
: heat magnet. But keeping it artificially cool, there'
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 30 modern home也没那么神奇，窗户，墙壁，屋顶都不能完全隔热，在南部，白天太阳的
热量仍然会大量的进入房子。
即便是能做到完全隔热的modern home,无人时关掉空调等回来时再打开也不会比一直开
着更费电。
correct
outside
,
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: You are correct but you are using a big assumption which may not be correct
: with most modern homes.
: Years ago, houses are not built using very good insulating material or
: technology. So their R value is very low. Most of the heat AC moves outside
: is to counter the heat coming through your window and walls.
: Most modern homes (especially the energy star or LEED certified home) are
: insulated very well. Very little energy is used to maintain the temp by AC,
: most of the AC energy is used to move the
|
|
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 31 http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/air-conditioners/expert-advice-and-tips-on-how-to-save-money-and-energy-on-air-conditioning/overview/0706_tips-on-how-to-save-money-and-energy-on-air-condtioning_ov.htm
里面有DOE专家的说法，比版上的专家更可信
"says Christina Kielich, a spokeswoman for the DOE. You can reduce your annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable thermostat 10º to 15º F when you're out of the house, says the DOE"
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: modern home也没那么神奇，窗户，墙壁，屋顶都不能完全隔热，在南部，白天太阳的
: 热量仍然会大量的进入房子。
: 即便是能做到完全隔热的modern home,无人时关掉空调等回来时再打开也不会比一直开
: 着更费电。
:
: correct
: outside
: ,
|
f***a
发帖数: 11477 | 32 反正大家的讨论都是认为我家的空调没有问题对吧？
那我们就不用找人来看是不是制冷剂的问题了
我们是60年的老房子了，空调机倒是功率很大
可以到30度。
后来我们发现貌似把温度设置成很极端的低时，出来的风好像冷得多
这样降温速度好像快一些 |
f***a
发帖数: 11477 | 33 另外一个问题，是不是制冷的时候把每个屋子出风口打成风向向上制冷好一些？
我恍惚记得说制热的时候要向下吹风，让热空气循环上升；
制冷要让风下上吹，让冷空气下沉循环。
不过风向变成向上后降温没觉得变快多少，但是没有直接的冷风吹人，反而觉得更加热
了。。。。。。
还有是不是关闭几个房间的出风口，别的屋子会冷得快些？
谢谢大家！！！ 我的问题太多。。。。 |
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 34 你测下出风口的温度是多少，正常应该比室温低15F~20F，如果达不到，需要检查下
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 反正大家的讨论都是认为我家的空调没有问题对吧？
: 那我们就不用找人来看是不是制冷剂的问题了
: 我们是60年的老房子了，空调机倒是功率很大
: 可以到30度。
: 后来我们发现貌似把温度设置成很极端的低时，出来的风好像冷得多
: 这样降温速度好像快一些
|
S*******E
发帖数: 2498 | 35 大家没讨论你家空调，大家都在那跑题呢
我住的也是老房子，61年的，dc地区，感觉你那4个小时是有点过长了
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 反正大家的讨论都是认为我家的空调没有问题对吧？
: 那我们就不用找人来看是不是制冷剂的问题了
: 我们是60年的老房子了，空调机倒是功率很大
: 可以到30度。
: 后来我们发现貌似把温度设置成很极端的低时，出来的风好像冷得多
: 这样降温速度好像快一些
|
S****s
发帖数: 1033 | 36 正常，尤其是如果湿度比较大
我老觉得我家控制器显示的温度不准，也不知道sensor到底安哪的，一直想自己搞个温
度计到处量量，也没动
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 室外最开始100度，室内从傍晚开始，85度到78度化了4个小时，还是太阳下山之后。风
: 向调了，风的温度还比较冷，但是室温就是降得慢。这是什么原因啊？只有一层的平房
: 。
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 37 you are right about 不能完全隔热 part, but modern house is much much better
than before.
For my house built a few years ago, 窗户 (triple glaze with low-e U value 0.
05)，墙壁 (R value 80) ，屋顶 (R value 110). This insulation is better than
most expensive refrigerator made just a few years back.
Assume 完全隔热的modern home, also assume night time temp is in the 70s and
day time temp is in the 90s, AC runs more efficient at night and early
mornings than late afternoon and early evenings. When you spread the load
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: modern home也没那么神奇，窗户，墙壁，屋顶都不能完全隔热，在南部，白天太阳的
: 热量仍然会大量的进入房子。
: 即便是能做到完全隔热的modern home,无人时关掉空调等回来时再打开也不会比一直开
: 着更费电。
:
: correct
: outside
: ,
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 38
Makes very little difference.
Yes.
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 另外一个问题，是不是制冷的时候把每个屋子出风口打成风向向上制冷好一些？
: 我恍惚记得说制热的时候要向下吹风，让热空气循环上升；
: 制冷要让风下上吹，让冷空气下沉循环。
: 不过风向变成向上后降温没觉得变快多少，但是没有直接的冷风吹人，反而觉得更加热
: 了。。。。。。
: 还有是不是关闭几个房间的出风口，别的屋子会冷得快些？
: 谢谢大家！！！ 我的问题太多。。。。
|
f***a
发帖数: 11477 | 39 谢谢咯吱大侠！！
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
:
: Makes very little difference.
: Yes.
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 40 貌似这个专家没提关了空调费电还是省电的问题吧？
annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable
thermostat 10º to 15º F when you're out of the house, says the DOE"
阳的
直开
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/air-conditioners/expert-advice-and-tips-on-how-to-save-money-and-energy-on-air-conditioning/overview/0706_tips-on-how-to-save-money-and-energy-on-air-condtioning_ov.htm
: 里面有DOE专家的说法，比版上的专家更可信
: "says Christina Kielich, a spokeswoman for the DOE. You can reduce your annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable thermostat 10º to 15º F when you're out of the house, says the DOE"
|
|
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 41 I never claim to be expert here, I might know a thing or two about the house
, I am only sharing my personal experience here.
If you have unusual high cooling bill, you want to check to see if your
house is leaking very badly (you can run a blower door test, my house leaks
no more than 0.06% of total interior volume per hour)
If your house is old, insulate, insulate, insulate. You will save money in
the long run.
If you have thermal bridge in your house (such as single pane window from 30
years
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/appliances/heating-cooling-and-air/air-conditioners/expert-advice-and-tips-on-how-to-save-money-and-energy-on-air-conditioning/overview/0706_tips-on-how-to-save-money-and-energy-on-air-condtioning_ov.htm
: 里面有DOE专家的说法，比版上的专家更可信
: "says Christina Kielich, a spokeswoman for the DOE. You can reduce your annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable thermostat 10º to 15º F when you're out of the house, says the DOE"
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 42 says Christina Kielich, a spokeswoman for the DOE. You can reduce your
annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable
thermostat 10o to 15o F when you're out of the house, says the DOE.
把温度设定调高也就相当于让空调不工作/少工作，回家后再降温度，能省10%
DOE"
【在 a9 的大作中提到】
: 貌似这个专家没提关了空调费电还是省电的问题吧？
:
: annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable
: thermostat 10º to 15º F when you're out of the house, says the DOE"
: 阳的
: 直开
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 43 我只不过把DOE的专家说的拿出来跟你的某些观点进行对比。
你的大部分观点我是同意的，不过这点上我还是相信专家的
house
leaks
30
help
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I never claim to be expert here, I might know a thing or two about the house
: , I am only sharing my personal experience here.
: If you have unusual high cooling bill, you want to check to see if your
: house is leaking very badly (you can run a blower door test, my house leaks
: no more than 0.06% of total interior volume per hour)
: If your house is old, insulate, insulate, insulate. You will save money in
: the long run.
: If you have thermal bridge in your house (such as single pane window from 30
: years
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 44 他是说，不在家的时候调高温度省电。而不是关掉空调多耗电，OK？
我想，一般的调节器，没有设置9点到15点关机这样的设置吧？
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: says Christina Kielich, a spokeswoman for the DOE. You can reduce your
: annual energy bills by about 10 percent by turning up your programmable
: thermostat 10o to 15o F when you're out of the house, says the DOE.
: 把温度设定调高也就相当于让空调不工作/少工作，回家后再降温度，能省10%
:
: DOE"
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 45 sensor貌似在调温器里？
。风
平房
【在 S****s 的大作中提到】
: 正常，尤其是如果湿度比较大
: 我老觉得我家控制器显示的温度不准，也不知道sensor到底安哪的，一直想自己搞个温
: 度计到处量量，也没动
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 46 不好意思误解你了，貌似我们观点一样？
关空调更省电，这是你的观点吧？
programmable
the
【在 a9 的大作中提到】
: 他是说，不在家的时候调高温度省电。而不是关掉空调多耗电，OK？
: 我想，一般的调节器，没有设置9点到15点关机这样的设置吧？
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 47 ft,我一直都说的关掉空调省电，你怎么理解的？
【在 a9 的大作中提到】
: 他是说，不在家的时候调高温度省电。而不是关掉空调多耗电，OK？
: 我想，一般的调节器，没有设置9点到15点关机这样的设置吧？
|
d*****n
发帖数: 2132 | 48 i am not sure about that. my house take about 30 to 45 min to lower reduce
temp for 8 degrees, however, my house is 2003, so you might want to compare
house with the same age.
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 反正大家的讨论都是认为我家的空调没有问题对吧？
: 那我们就不用找人来看是不是制冷剂的问题了
: 我们是60年的老房子了，空调机倒是功率很大
: 可以到30度。
: 后来我们发现貌似把温度设置成很极端的低时，出来的风好像冷得多
: 这样降温速度好像快一些
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 49 I just read the article you quoted in your post before.
Here are just a few interesting points I would like to point out.
Quote: " Installing an air conditioner in a shady spot could increase its
efficiency up to 10 percent, according to the DOE."
Although it is not clearly stated, but my guess would be shade area is a few
degree cooler than sunny area.
Quote: " Your dishwasher, washer, and dryer give off heat when they're in
use, so run them in the early morning or late evening. Your air condit
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 我只不过把DOE的专家说的拿出来跟你的某些观点进行对比。
: 你的大部分观点我是同意的，不过这点上我还是相信专家的
:
: house
: leaks
: 30
: help
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 50 如果你的房子完全绝热，那更不用开空调了，因为dishwasher, dryer你会在人出门的
时候大多是关着的，就算用也不会天天都用，其他电器发热量是非常小的。
况且对大多数房子来说，夏天是很难阻止外面的热量传进来，温差越大，热量传递就越
快。你可以试试把你家冰箱关掉，看看里面的冰块化掉不。这跟房子是一个道理，大部
分热量是外面传进来的。如果没有热量传进来，仅靠少量电器是不会让温度上升几度的
，这时候对AC的效率的影响就微乎其微了。
few
conditioner
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I just read the article you quoted in your post before.
: Here are just a few interesting points I would like to point out.
: Quote: " Installing an air conditioner in a shady spot could increase its
: efficiency up to 10 percent, according to the DOE."
: Although it is not clearly stated, but my guess would be shade area is a few
: degree cooler than sunny area.
: Quote: " Your dishwasher, washer, and dryer give off heat when they're in
: use, so run them in the early morning or late evening. Your air condit
|
|
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 51 对冰箱，我再举个极端的例子。
假如你一年有364天不在家，你是是让冰箱365天一直都工作省电，还是前364天关着，
第365天回家时打开省电？
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 如果你的房子完全绝热，那更不用开空调了，因为dishwasher, dryer你会在人出门的
: 时候大多是关着的，就算用也不会天天都用，其他电器发热量是非常小的。
: 况且对大多数房子来说，夏天是很难阻止外面的热量传进来，温差越大，热量传递就越
: 快。你可以试试把你家冰箱关掉，看看里面的冰块化掉不。这跟房子是一个道理，大部
: 分热量是外面传进来的。如果没有热量传进来，仅靠少量电器是不会让温度上升几度的
: ，这时候对AC的效率的影响就微乎其微了。
:
: few
: conditioner
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 52 No house can 完全绝热, but most modern house is almost 完全绝热.
Here are just some simple facts for you.
My YETI Tundra cooler have two inches thick polyurethane foam insulation (3
inch on the lid). It can keep ice (0 F when I put in) well over 1 month.
http://store.yeticoolers.com/products/YETI-Tundra-%252d-250-Quart.html
My house is built with 10 to 12 inch thick polyurethane foam insulation.
Before I moved in, I have sort of tested how good the insulation was. I
cooled house to 60 F two days. I turn
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 如果你的房子完全绝热，那更不用开空调了，因为dishwasher, dryer你会在人出门的
: 时候大多是关着的，就算用也不会天天都用，其他电器发热量是非常小的。
: 况且对大多数房子来说，夏天是很难阻止外面的热量传进来，温差越大，热量传递就越
: 快。你可以试试把你家冰箱关掉，看看里面的冰块化掉不。这跟房子是一个道理，大部
: 分热量是外面传进来的。如果没有热量传进来，仅靠少量电器是不会让温度上升几度的
: ，这时候对AC的效率的影响就微乎其微了。
:
: few
: conditioner
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 53 赫赫，我知道你是环保做得好，别人家的可跟你家情况不一样啊
3
and
floor
floor
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: No house can 完全绝热, but most modern house is almost 完全绝热.
: Here are just some simple facts for you.
: My YETI Tundra cooler have two inches thick polyurethane foam insulation (3
: inch on the lid). It can keep ice (0 F when I put in) well over 1 month.
: http://store.yeticoolers.com/products/YETI-Tundra-%252d-250-Quart.html
: My house is built with 10 to 12 inch thick polyurethane foam insulation.
: Before I moved in, I have sort of tested how good the insulation was. I
: cooled house to 60 F two days. I turn
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 54 Most of the new house that is energy star certified or LEED construction are
just as good as mine. Actually almost all ICF or SIP house are just as good
even if the builder does not want to spend money to certify the house.
I would say at least 30% of the house in my area are built very well. Almost
100% of the new construction I involved are well insulated (more
importantly well designed). Only stupid builder just buy a plan and build it
, good builder will put in correctly sized, latitude-spec
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 赫赫，我知道你是环保做得好，别人家的可跟你家情况不一样啊
:
: 3
: and
: floor
: floor
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 55 I feel it is time to talk about AC sizing since so many people are talking
about getting a new AC system.
Proper AC size is very important, most contractor oversize so they can make
more money from you.
It should be sized based on your location outdoor summer temperature and
desired indoor temperature. (If you can feel comfortable at 80F, tell your
contractor so, if he size it based on 75 or 70 degree, your system will be
oversized)
Since optimum efficiency is achieved at continuous running, it
【在 d*****n 的大作中提到】
: i am not sure about that. my house take about 30 to 45 min to lower reduce
: temp for 8 degrees, however, my house is 2003, so you might want to compare
: house with the same age.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 56 你还是没弄明白，用的材料好并不代表热量就进不来。你房子空气流通不？流通的话热
量就随着进来了。你可以说你的材料比冰箱好，但实际用起来肯定不如冰箱绝热。
我前面举过冰箱的例子，就是这种良好insulate的东西，人也不会白开那364天。
还有，100%的新房子用了好材料，新房子占房子总保有量多少？而且并不是各地区的情
况都跟你那一样，至少我买房时看的新房子是没有任何这方面的设计的。大家都知道太
阳能板能节能，但我们这没有一家装这个,费用是一大主要原因.宣传说15年能收回投资
，可是谁能保证自己在这住15年？builder就更别说了，连appliance和装修材料都用普
通的，会主动给你用好insulation材料么。其实builder比买家聪明多了，甭管买家自
认为多聪明
are
good
Almost
it
overhangs
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Most of the new house that is energy star certified or LEED construction are
: just as good as mine. Actually almost all ICF or SIP house are just as good
: even if the builder does not want to spend money to certify the house.
: I would say at least 30% of the house in my area are built very well. Almost
: 100% of the new construction I involved are well insulated (more
: importantly well designed). Only stupid builder just buy a plan and build it
: , good builder will put in correctly sized, latitude-spec
|
f***a
发帖数: 11477 | 57 我家那个空调的纸filter三天两头被冷凝水湿透变形并且漏下去，换成塑料的好点儿。
是不是说明我们的空调too oversized？我们温度调得不是很离谱。外面100度，调的78
-80度。
谢谢鸽吱！您太专业了而且超级耐心！ |
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 58 No oversize does not cause filter to get wet, you have other problem, such
as drain line is lightly pluged up.
78
【在 f***a 的大作中提到】
: 我家那个空调的纸filter三天两头被冷凝水湿透变形并且漏下去，换成塑料的好点儿。
: 是不是说明我们的空调too oversized？我们温度调得不是很离谱。外面100度，调的78
: -80度。
: 谢谢鸽吱！您太专业了而且超级耐心！
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 59 Yes, small air leak does exist, no house is perfect, but according to blower
door test, my house leaks 0.06% of total interior volume per hour to be
exact, mostly because I like windows and have lots of them in my house.
Air exchange is done using an Energy Recovery Ventilator (ERV). It is a type
of air-to-air heat exchanger that not only can transfer sensible heat but
also latent heat. Since both temperature and moisture is transferred, ERVs
can be considered total enthalpic devices. On the oth
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 你还是没弄明白，用的材料好并不代表热量就进不来。你房子空气流通不？流通的话热
: 量就随着进来了。你可以说你的材料比冰箱好，但实际用起来肯定不如冰箱绝热。
: 我前面举过冰箱的例子，就是这种良好insulate的东西，人也不会白开那364天。
: 还有，100%的新房子用了好材料，新房子占房子总保有量多少？而且并不是各地区的情
: 况都跟你那一样，至少我买房时看的新房子是没有任何这方面的设计的。大家都知道太
: 阳能板能节能，但我们这没有一家装这个,费用是一大主要原因.宣传说15年能收回投资
: ，可是谁能保证自己在这住15年？builder就更别说了，连appliance和装修材料都用普
: 通的，会主动给你用好insulation材料么。其实builder比买家聪明多了，甭管买家自
: 认为多聪明
:
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 60 赫赫，我没那么多话说，就总结两点
1.如果房子隔热不好，热量能近来，那开着空调就需要把热量不停的转移出去，耗电量
更高
2.如果房子隔热很好，热量进不来，那就不需要开着空调，因为房子本身里本身没
什么热源，温度不会怎么上升。你家是这种
所以不管怎样，不用说房子是靠什么绝热的了，你现在是走进这个误区，老是纠缠在怎
么绝热上面了。其实这没有关系，无论绝热不绝热，关空调是不会多耗电的
更多的道理也不用说了，你可以跟DOE的专家解释这些，好让全国人民都受益。
blower
type
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Yes, small air leak does exist, no house is perfect, but according to blower
: door test, my house leaks 0.06% of total interior volume per hour to be
: exact, mostly because I like windows and have lots of them in my house.
: Air exchange is done using an Energy Recovery Ventilator (ERV). It is a type
: of air-to-air heat exchanger that not only can transfer sensible heat but
: also latent heat. Since both temperature and moisture is transferred, ERVs
: can be considered total enthalpic devices. On the oth
|
|
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 61 1.如果房子隔热不好，热量能近来，那开着空调就需要把热量不停的转移出去，耗电量
更高
I agree with this point, that is why government is offer energy rebate for
you to better insulate the house and get better window and doors.
The key point is when 把热量转移出去 is more efficient, let the house heat
up all day and try to 把热量转移出去 just before you come home when outside
is very hot is not the most efficient way. Actually if you read the whole
DOE article you quoted, they said the same thing.
2.如果房子隔热很好，热量进不来，那就不需要开着空调，因为房子本身里本身没
什么热源，温度不会怎么上升
Thi
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 赫赫，我没那么多话说，就总结两点
: 1.如果房子隔热不好，热量能近来，那开着空调就需要把热量不停的转移出去，耗电量
: 更高
: 2.如果房子隔热很好，热量进不来，那就不需要开着空调，因为房子本身里本身没
: 什么热源，温度不会怎么上升。你家是这种
: 所以不管怎样，不用说房子是靠什么绝热的了，你现在是走进这个误区，老是纠缠在怎
: 么绝热上面了。其实这没有关系，无论绝热不绝热，关空调是不会多耗电的
: 更多的道理也不用说了，你可以跟DOE的专家解释这些，好让全国人民都受益。
:
: blower
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 62 你可以实测一下
不过让一个空间24小时低温做的功绝对比只保持3-5小时低温做的功多得多
outside
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: 1.如果房子隔热不好，热量能近来，那开着空调就需要把热量不停的转移出去，耗电量
: 更高
: I agree with this point, that is why government is offer energy rebate for
: you to better insulate the house and get better window and doors.
: The key point is when 把热量转移出去 is more efficient, let the house heat
: up all day and try to 把热量转移出去 just before you come home when outside
: is very hot is not the most efficient way. Actually if you read the whole
: DOE article you quoted, they said the same thing.
: 2.如果房子隔热很好，热量进不来，那就不需要开着空调，因为房子本身里本身没
: 什么热源，温度不会怎么上升
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 63 要不然让停在室外的汽车24小时开空调,应该也比就上班的时候开开省油了
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 你可以实测一下
: 不过让一个空间24小时低温做的功绝对比只保持3-5小时低温做的功多得多
:
: outside
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 64 I already said the assumption long time ago.
Your house is well insulated and your AC is air sourced (not a geothermal
unit)
For a very poorly insulated house or if you have geothermal heat pump, you
are 100% right.
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 你可以实测一下
: 不过让一个空间24小时低温做的功绝对比只保持3-5小时低温做的功多得多
:
: outside
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 65 能量守恒
除非你认为一直开着空调外面进来的热量会比关了进来的多。
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I already said the assumption long time ago.
: Your house is well insulated and your AC is air sourced (not a geothermal
: unit)
: For a very poorly insulated house or if you have geothermal heat pump, you
: are 100% right.
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 66 你的做功对象是一个, 现在是比较做功时间长短
不是比较对poorly insulated和well insulated做功
即使你的假设正确，温差大的时候效率较低，但是会低好几倍吗？
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I already said the assumption long time ago.
: Your house is well insulated and your AC is air sourced (not a geothermal
: unit)
: For a very poorly insulated house or if you have geothermal heat pump, you
: are 100% right.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 67 第一点，只要人回来之前几小时让空调运转逐步把温度降下来就不会对效率有很大影响。
第二点，我们是在假设家里没人的情况,对不？人不在家还需要cooking, use computer
, watch TV, use lights? 显然不是，这就是我为什么说人不在的时候房子内部没有很
多热源。
DOE 那篇文章我当然是全读了，结论他都已经下了，人不在时把空调设定调高是会省电
的，如果你得出其他结论只能说明你的理解有偏差。
1.如果房子隔热不好，热量能近来，那开着空调就需要把热量不停的转移出去，耗电量
更高
I agree with this point, that is why government is offer energy rebate for
you to better insulate the house and get better window and doors.
The key point is when 把热量转移出去 is more efficient, let the house heat
up all day and try to 把热量转移出去 just b
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: 1.如果房子隔热不好，热量能近来，那开着空调就需要把热量不停的转移出去，耗电量
: 更高
: I agree with this point, that is why government is offer energy rebate for
: you to better insulate the house and get better window and doors.
: The key point is when 把热量转移出去 is more efficient, let the house heat
: up all day and try to 把热量转移出去 just before you come home when outside
: is very hot is not the most efficient way. Actually if you read the whole
: DOE article you quoted, they said the same thing.
: 2.如果房子隔热很好，热量进不来，那就不需要开着空调，因为房子本身里本身没
: 什么热源，温度不会怎么上升
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 68 Here is some assumption,
The amount of heat that come in from outside is the same at a constant rate,
does not matter if you run the ac or turn off (in real life the heat come
in should be slightly more, since a bigger temperature difference is
maintained)
You are paying for is how long the AC runs not the how much heat is removed.
In cool morning time, AC is at least 10% more efficient than hot afternoon.
What do you think save more money, since AC only working in the afternoon
have to work a l
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 你的做功对象是一个, 现在是比较做功时间长短
: 不是比较对poorly insulated和well insulated做功
: 即使你的假设正确，温差大的时候效率较低，但是会低好几倍吗？
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 69 还是你老比我表达得清楚
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 你的做功对象是一个, 现在是比较做功时间长短
: 不是比较对poorly insulated和well insulated做功
: 即使你的假设正确，温差大的时候效率较低，但是会低好几倍吗？
|
a9
发帖数: 21638 | 70 你这个假设第一条就不成立，如果不开空调，进来的热显示会比开着空调进来的少。
rate,
removed.
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Here is some assumption,
: The amount of heat that come in from outside is the same at a constant rate,
: does not matter if you run the ac or turn off (in real life the heat come
: in should be slightly more, since a bigger temperature difference is
: maintained)
: You are paying for is how long the AC runs not the how much heat is removed.
: In cool morning time, AC is at least 10% more efficient than hot afternoon.
: What do you think save more money, since AC only working in the afternoon
: have to work a l
|
|
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 71 大哥，你的英文我看不太明白了
假设上下午各4个小时，上午工作效率高20%
全天工作，空调工作(4+4)*50%=4小时
仅下午工作，空调工作4*60%=2.4小时
还是仅下午开省得多
另外这种效率差，如果有也只应存在于刚开空调的时候，一旦温度降下来，效率就没有
区别了，所以下午4小时中，顶多只有一个小时是低效率工作的
rate,
removed.
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Here is some assumption,
: The amount of heat that come in from outside is the same at a constant rate,
: does not matter if you run the ac or turn off (in real life the heat come
: in should be slightly more, since a bigger temperature difference is
: maintained)
: You are paying for is how long the AC runs not the how much heat is removed.
: In cool morning time, AC is at least 10% more efficient than hot afternoon.
: What do you think save more money, since AC only working in the afternoon
: have to work a l
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 72
响。
Well, depends on when you come home, I guess most people come home around 4
to 5pm, so AC need to start working between 2 to 3 pm to drop the
temperature.
You tell me when is the hottest time of the day your area, mine is between 2
and 5pm.
According the article you quoted "Installing an air conditioner in a shady
spot could increase its efficiency up to 10 percent", why do you think that
is the reason, shady spot is maybe a few degree cooler than the non shady
spot, that already give ac a 1
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 第一点，只要人回来之前几小时让空调运转逐步把温度降下来就不会对效率有很大影响。
: 第二点，我们是在假设家里没人的情况,对不？人不在家还需要cooking, use computer
: , watch TV, use lights? 显然不是，这就是我为什么说人不在的时候房子内部没有很
: 多热源。
: DOE 那篇文章我当然是全读了，结论他都已经下了，人不在时把空调设定调高是会省电
: 的，如果你得出其他结论只能说明你的理解有偏差。
:
: 1.如果房子隔热不好，热量能近来，那开着空调就需要把热量不停的转移出去，耗电量
: 更高
: I agree with this point, that is why government is offer energy rebate for
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 73 Assume a whole day 80 btu come into the house.
In the morning, ac can remove 20 BTU per hour.
In the afternoon, ac can remove 16 BTU per hour.
If spread the load all day (4 hour in the morning, 4 hour in the afternoon)
AC need to work 4.5 hours total to remove the 80 (40/20 + 40/16)
If AC only work in the afternoon it need to work 5 hours (80/16) to remove
the same amount of heat.
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 大哥，你的英文我看不太明白了
: 假设上下午各4个小时，上午工作效率高20%
: 全天工作，空调工作(4+4)*50%=4小时
: 仅下午工作，空调工作4*60%=2.4小时
: 还是仅下午开省得多
: 另外这种效率差，如果有也只应存在于刚开空调的时候，一旦温度降下来，效率就没有
: 区别了，所以下午4小时中，顶多只有一个小时是低效率工作的
:
: rate,
: removed.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 74 拜托，这么大的房子，电脑和冰箱能让温度上升几度？你的冰箱保温那么好，一个月冰
都化不了，更不需要耗多少电。电脑也是会自己休眠的。
你哪天自己在家试试就知道了，在这找出几个微不足道的东西闲扯有什么用。
4
2
that
efficiency
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Assume a whole day 80 btu come into the house.
: In the morning, ac can remove 20 BTU per hour.
: In the afternoon, ac can remove 16 BTU per hour.
: If spread the load all day (4 hour in the morning, 4 hour in the afternoon)
: AC need to work 4.5 hours total to remove the 80 (40/20 + 40/16)
: If AC only work in the afternoon it need to work 5 hours (80/16) to remove
: the same amount of heat.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 75 Did you not see my comment about the real life situation? What is your point
in your post?
如果不开空调，进来的热显示会比开着空调进来的少, the key issue here is 少 how
much, that depends on your house insulation, this help determine if you can
save money or not by running AC all day or turning off when not home.
If you know exactly how much 少 between the two cases we are discussing, you
can easily figure out the answer. Using computer modeling software, I am
able to tell you for most well insulated houses, you will be
【在 a9 的大作中提到】
: 你这个假设第一条就不成立，如果不开空调，进来的热显示会比开着空调进来的少。
:
: rate,
: removed.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 76 Installing an air conditioner in a shady spot could increase its efficiency
up to 10 percent
这是说你的空调需要放置在阴凉的地方，因为主要部件都工作在室外，比如压缩机，
coil之类，如果阳光直射会造成效率低，而房子里的温度上升那么几度产生的影响的远
远不如室外阳光那么大，你要知道阳光直射下，局部温度常常能到五六十摄氏度。
所以我说你的理解存在偏差。
4
2
that
efficiency
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Did you not see my comment about the real life situation? What is your point
: in your post?
: 如果不开空调，进来的热显示会比开着空调进来的少, the key issue here is 少 how
: much, that depends on your house insulation, this help determine if you can
: save money or not by running AC all day or turning off when not home.
: If you know exactly how much 少 between the two cases we are discussing, you
: can easily figure out the answer. Using computer modeling software, I am
: able to tell you for most well insulated houses, you will be
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 77 原来你觉得你家的房子和外界完全绝热阿？开半天和开全天remove德热量一样？
那你应该全年都开冷气，冬天也开，要不冰箱电脑出来的热量就能把你的房子烤熟了
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Assume a whole day 80 btu come into the house.
: In the morning, ac can remove 20 BTU per hour.
: In the afternoon, ac can remove 16 BTU per hour.
: If spread the load all day (4 hour in the morning, 4 hour in the afternoon)
: AC need to work 4.5 hours total to remove the 80 (40/20 + 40/16)
: If AC only work in the afternoon it need to work 5 hours (80/16) to remove
: the same amount of heat.
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 78 另外既然完全绝热，你还开什么空调了，每次通风后开一次1小时，就完了，以后你的空
调完全不需要开了。
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Assume a whole day 80 btu come into the house.
: In the morning, ac can remove 20 BTU per hour.
: In the afternoon, ac can remove 16 BTU per hour.
: If spread the load all day (4 hour in the morning, 4 hour in the afternoon)
: AC need to work 4.5 hours total to remove the 80 (40/20 + 40/16)
: If AC only work in the afternoon it need to work 5 hours (80/16) to remove
: the same amount of heat.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 79 你的假设是错的，前面a9已经说了，两种情况下进入房间的热量是不一样的。
假设上午进来40 BTU，你工作了2小时remove了，然后下午再进来40 BTU,你工作了2.5
小时，一共是4.5小时。
但是假如上午不开空调，温度达到平衡后并没有新的热量进来，5点时只有40 BTU的热
量在屋子内，我只需要remove这40 BTU就够了，那么空调一共工作了 2.5小时
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Assume a whole day 80 btu come into the house.
: In the morning, ac can remove 20 BTU per hour.
: In the afternoon, ac can remove 16 BTU per hour.
: If spread the load all day (4 hour in the morning, 4 hour in the afternoon)
: AC need to work 4.5 hours total to remove the 80 (40/20 + 40/16)
: If AC only work in the afternoon it need to work 5 hours (80/16) to remove
: the same amount of heat.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 80 嗬嗬，这我跟他说过了，如果完全绝热，屋子里的热源非常有限，根本不需要开空调。
的空
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 另外既然完全绝热，你还开什么空调了，每次通风后开一次1小时，就完了，以后你的空
: 调完全不需要开了。
|
|
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 81 这哥们就是一文科生，我放弃教育他的机会了
5
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 你的假设是错的，前面a9已经说了，两种情况下进入房间的热量是不一样的。
: 假设上午进来40 BTU，你工作了2小时remove了，然后下午再进来40 BTU,你工作了2.5
: 小时，一共是4.5小时。
: 但是假如上午不开空调，温度达到平衡后并没有新的热量进来，5点时只有40 BTU的热
: 量在屋子内，我只需要remove这40 BTU就够了，那么空调一共工作了 2.5小时
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 82 我这几天算是白费了。我也放弃 :)
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 这哥们就是一文科生，我放弃教育他的机会了
:
: 5
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 83
It all add up quickly
你的冰箱保温那么好，一个月冰
That is a cooler not a fridge.
电脑也是会自己休眠的。
Not mine.
I tested this already, I know.
在这找出几个微不足道的东西闲扯有什么用。
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 拜托，这么大的房子，电脑和冰箱能让温度上升几度？你的冰箱保温那么好，一个月冰
: 都化不了，更不需要耗多少电。电脑也是会自己休眠的。
: 你哪天自己在家试试就知道了，在这找出几个微不足道的东西闲扯有什么用。
:
: 4
: 2
: that
: efficiency
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 84 Interior space/rooms in my house does need cooling all year long (even it is
below freezing outside), you are right about this.
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 原来你觉得你家的房子和外界完全绝热阿？开半天和开全天remove德热量一样？
: 那你应该全年都开冷气，冬天也开，要不冰箱电脑出来的热量就能把你的房子烤熟了
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 85 再教你一次，那是因为你外面房间暖气开太大，又不通风造成的，一边加热一边开冷气
，你不是搞笑吗？
is
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Interior space/rooms in my house does need cooling all year long (even it is
: below freezing outside), you are right about this.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 86 温度达到平衡后并没有新的热量进来?
I do not agree with this point, I keep my house 72 F all day. If I turn off
AC, it would be 73 or 74 by noon, maybe 75 or 76F by 3 or 4pm with all the
stuff running inside. Which will still be far below the 95 to 100 outside.
I am not sure how much less heat will come in as day goes on, (72 indoor 75
outdoor in the morning) compare to (76 indoor and 95 outdoor) in the
afternoon.
Most of my heat is generated in door not coming from outside.
温度达到平衡后并没有新的热量进来?
Test your theory aga
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 你的假设是错的，前面a9已经说了，两种情况下进入房间的热量是不一样的。
: 假设上午进来40 BTU，你工作了2小时remove了，然后下午再进来40 BTU,你工作了2.5
: 小时，一共是4.5小时。
: 但是假如上午不开空调，温度达到平衡后并没有新的热量进来，5点时只有40 BTU的热
: 量在屋子内，我只需要remove这40 BTU就够了，那么空调一共工作了 2.5小时
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 87 Not 搞笑, outside room will have a little heat loss through window and walls
, but only need very little heat to maintain 72F on very cold winter days.
Interior space will need to remove the heat generated by human and other
equipment to maintain the 72F.
My house is 通风 24 hours a day.
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 再教你一次，那是因为你外面房间暖气开太大，又不通风造成的，一边加热一边开冷气
: ，你不是搞笑吗？
:
: is
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 88 屋子里的热源非常有限. Not in my house, if I shut all everything down to the
bare minimum, it will draw close to 20000W in electricity, or I use 20KWH of
electricity per hour. Not all will turn into heat, but some of them will,
if I do not remove this heat, the house temp will rise close to 1 degree F
every couple hours. There is a need to cool.
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 嗬嗬，这我跟他说过了，如果完全绝热，屋子里的热源非常有限，根本不需要开空调。
:
: 的空
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 89 你全天开空调，当然电费高了。
20度一小时，一天就480度，比我一个月电费还高了。你一个月电费就是14400度，你每
月电费多少啊？
the
of
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: 屋子里的热源非常有限. Not in my house, if I shut all everything down to the
: bare minimum, it will draw close to 20000W in electricity, or I use 20KWH of
: electricity per hour. Not all will turn into heat, but some of them will,
: if I do not remove this heat, the house temp will rise close to 1 degree F
: every couple hours. There is a need to cool.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 90 My AC does not use electricity, it use the waste heat from my turbine, kind
of free.
Electricity is used by many other things in the house, but most is generated
by my turbine, I buy very little from the grid, less than 1000KWH for last
year.
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 你全天开空调，当然电费高了。
: 20度一小时，一天就480度，比我一个月电费还高了。你一个月电费就是14400度，你每
: 月电费多少啊？
:
: the
: of
|
|
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 91 难道你自己发电？用什么发电？风力发电吗？越看你越像永动机理论了
kind
generated
last
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: My AC does not use electricity, it use the waste heat from my turbine, kind
: of free.
: Electricity is used by many other things in the house, but most is generated
: by my turbine, I buy very little from the grid, less than 1000KWH for last
: year.
|
c******e
发帖数: 5 | 92 老大你的房子经验基本上不适用本版99%的用户，观点有分歧是再正常不过了。
kind
generated
last
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: My AC does not use electricity, it use the waste heat from my turbine, kind
: of free.
: Electricity is used by many other things in the house, but most is generated
: by my turbine, I buy very little from the grid, less than 1000KWH for last
: year.
|
c******e
发帖数: 5 | 93 他的房子地下有气田。
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 难道你自己发电？用什么发电？风力发电吗？越看你越像永动机理论了
:
: kind
: generated
: last
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 94 Did you come to my house before?
【在 c******e 的大作中提到】
: 他的房子地下有气田。
|
c******e
发帖数: 5 | 95 没有啊，是你在这里说过的。
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Did you come to my house before?
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 96 如果你房子在关空调的情况下温度只有75F,你还会说空调的效率会变低很多？希望你说
话要保持前后一致，否则别人不知道你在说什么。
说热交换平衡是按照你的假设“If spread the load all day (4 hour in the
morning, 4 hour in the afternoon)”，这会你又变了假设做甚？
假如load是平均的，热量均衡后热交换总量为零，这是物理学定律。
假如load是不平均的，假设空调效率差不多（你不要说这又不行），维持越低的室内温
度，在相同的室外温度下，温差就越大会有更多的热量进来，耗费的电自然就越大。
你的car例子简直是胡搅蛮缠，car跟你的房子一样绝热？你房子是阳光直射进来？
off
75
to
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: 温度达到平衡后并没有新的热量进来?
: I do not agree with this point, I keep my house 72 F all day. If I turn off
: AC, it would be 73 or 74 by noon, maybe 75 or 76F by 3 or 4pm with all the
: stuff running inside. Which will still be far below the 95 to 100 outside.
: I am not sure how much less heat will come in as day goes on, (72 indoor 75
: outdoor in the morning) compare to (76 indoor and 95 outdoor) in the
: afternoon.
: Most of my heat is generated in door not coming from outside.
: 温度达到平衡后并没有新的热量进来?
: Test your theory aga
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 97 20KW/hr? 相当于你家有十个电暖器一直开着，比太阳照进来的热量多多了。这种情况
下你应该把窗户打开让热散到外面去
我上个月用电700度，合一小时1KW，大部分是空调消耗的，人不在时普通电器发热简直
可以忽略不计
the
of
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: 屋子里的热源非常有限. Not in my house, if I shut all everything down to the
: bare minimum, it will draw close to 20000W in electricity, or I use 20KWH of
: electricity per hour. Not all will turn into heat, but some of them will,
: if I do not remove this heat, the house temp will rise close to 1 degree F
: every couple hours. There is a need to cool.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 98 我已经说过绝大部分房子不是他那种，他非要说100%的新房都是他那样的。
实际上新房绝大部分也都不是他那样的。
【在 c******e 的大作中提到】
: 老大你的房子经验基本上不适用本版99%的用户，观点有分歧是再正常不过了。
:
: kind
: generated
: last
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 99 怪不得他能这样浪费阿，不知道他到底在家里干什么，需要用1万5千度电，加上他自己
发电的损耗，他一个月房子的能量消耗估计顶这里50家的
【在 c******e 的大作中提到】
: 他的房子地下有气田。
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 100 需要报告FBI,DEA了，很可能是种植大麻:)
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 怪不得他能这样浪费阿，不知道他到底在家里干什么，需要用1万5千度电，加上他自己
: 发电的损耗，他一个月房子的能量消耗估计顶这里50家的
|
|
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 101 之前看他说花了一万多修储水罐收集雨水，觉得他真是环保。现在看来跟Gore差不多阿
。一方面花了很多钱搞环保，另一方面消耗的能源比普通人多多了
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 怪不得他能这样浪费阿，不知道他到底在家里干什么，需要用1万5千度电，加上他自己
: 发电的损耗，他一个月房子的能量消耗估计顶这里50家的
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 102 I am talking about a normal house with use common AC system here. Yes, my
current house is uniqe, but I also lived in many houses before and currently
own a few very normal rental houses, so my experience counts.
【在 c******e 的大作中提到】
: 老大你的房子经验基本上不适用本版99%的用户，观点有分歧是再正常不过了。
:
: kind
: generated
: last
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 103 AC efficiency main deciding factor is the outdoor temp have little to do
with indoor temp.
What I am try to say is temp will rise kind of evenly through out the day,
not like you said, more heat will come in the morning and less heat will
come in the afternoon. (unless you have a very very poorly insulated house,
which temp will rise so quickly to the ourdoor temp in just a few hours)
If you can not understand my english, please do not respond to my post any
more.
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 如果你房子在关空调的情况下温度只有75F,你还会说空调的效率会变低很多？希望你说
: 话要保持前后一致，否则别人不知道你在说什么。
: 说热交换平衡是按照你的假设“If spread the load all day (4 hour in the
: morning, 4 hour in the afternoon)”，这会你又变了假设做甚？
: 假如load是平均的，热量均衡后热交换总量为零，这是物理学定律。
: 假如load是不平均的，假设空调效率差不多（你不要说这又不行），维持越低的室内温
: 度，在相同的室外温度下，温差就越大会有更多的热量进来，耗费的电自然就越大。
: 你的car例子简直是胡搅蛮缠，car跟你的房子一样绝热？你房子是阳光直射进来？
:
: off
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 104 No, I do not use any heater, it is used by several computer system,
communication equipment, water pump, window film, fountain, etc.
Not all the heat is generated indoors, but some are are, all energy turn
into heat (some turn into mechanical energy, some goes to float charge the
battery, etc.)
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 20KW/hr? 相当于你家有十个电暖器一直开着，比太阳照进来的热量多多了。这种情况
: 下你应该把窗户打开让热散到外面去
: 我上个月用电700度，合一小时1KW，大部分是空调消耗的，人不在时普通电器发热简直
: 可以忽略不计
:
: the
: of
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 105 I got enough gas to last at least 300 years, should I save it for the next
owner?
Most of the them are used to pump in the water in well, in swimming pool,
fountain, water lawn. Also charge golf cart, fork lift, etc.
When I am home, listen to music, watch tv, get online. They all use
electricity.
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 怪不得他能这样浪费阿，不知道他到底在家里干什么，需要用1万5千度电，加上他自己
: 发电的损耗，他一个月房子的能量消耗估计顶这里50家的
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 106 真是个电老虎, 你再怎么节能也是这里最大的耗能户. 你讲节能就好比希特勒渴望和平
一样好笑
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: No, I do not use any heater, it is used by several computer system,
: communication equipment, water pump, window film, fountain, etc.
: Not all the heat is generated indoors, but some are are, all energy turn
: into heat (some turn into mechanical energy, some goes to float charge the
: battery, etc.)
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 107 Use more does not mean waste more, some people can use very little but waste
most of it, some people can use a lot but very little goes to waste.
A guy only drive 10 miles a day using a 10 mpg car.
Second guy drive 300 miles a day using a 50 mpg car.
Who waste more?
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: 真是个电老虎, 你再怎么节能也是这里最大的耗能户. 你讲节能就好比希特勒渴望和平
: 一样好笑
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 108 如果第二个人本来只需要开10miles就够了却非要多开290miles，那即便是他用100mpg
car来开，也是waste more.
waste
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Use more does not mean waste more, some people can use very little but waste
: most of it, some people can use a lot but very little goes to waste.
: A guy only drive 10 miles a day using a 10 mpg car.
: Second guy drive 300 miles a day using a 50 mpg car.
: Who waste more?
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 109 不是说你用了heater，而是说你使用这些电器的效果相当于这么多heater发的热。
所以说你的房子跟世界上绝大多数都不一样，主要热源来自于你房子内部，而别人的房
子主要热源来自于外部，所以结论完全不一样。
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: No, I do not use any heater, it is used by several computer system,
: communication equipment, water pump, window film, fountain, etc.
: Not all the heat is generated indoors, but some are are, all energy turn
: into heat (some turn into mechanical energy, some goes to float charge the
: battery, etc.)
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 110 “I got enough gas to last at least 300 years, should I save it for the next
owner?”
这句话很明显暴露了你是在waste energy，就像是你一天吃一个苹果就够了，十个苹果
就撑了，但是你为了不让别人占便宜，一天要吃一百个。
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I got enough gas to last at least 300 years, should I save it for the next
: owner?
: Most of the them are used to pump in the water in well, in swimming pool,
: fountain, water lawn. Also charge golf cart, fork lift, etc.
: When I am home, listen to music, watch tv, get online. They all use
: electricity.
|
|
|
T*U
发帖数: 22634 | 111 你的假设就是错的。室内外温差越大，传热越快。
已经定论的东西没有必要在争了，人无完人。
afternoon)
remove
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Assume a whole day 80 btu come into the house.
: In the morning, ac can remove 20 BTU per hour.
: In the afternoon, ac can remove 16 BTU per hour.
: If spread the load all day (4 hour in the morning, 4 hour in the afternoon)
: AC need to work 4.5 hours total to remove the 80 (40/20 + 40/16)
: If AC only work in the afternoon it need to work 5 hours (80/16) to remove
: the same amount of heat.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 112 我看你是完全不懂大家在说什么。
你不想说，可以不回我的帖子，不要恼羞成怒。
,
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: AC efficiency main deciding factor is the outdoor temp have little to do
: with indoor temp.
: What I am try to say is temp will rise kind of evenly through out the day,
: not like you said, more heat will come in the morning and less heat will
: come in the afternoon. (unless you have a very very poorly insulated house,
: which temp will rise so quickly to the ourdoor temp in just a few hours)
: If you can not understand my english, please do not respond to my post any
: more.
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 113 他不肯承认这个错误阿，因为他平时给人的回帖就试图给人以专家的印象，这回错了，
怎么好再装呢。
【在 T*U 的大作中提到】
: 你的假设就是错的。室内外温差越大，传热越快。
: 已经定论的东西没有必要在争了，人无完人。
:
: afternoon)
: remove
|
m*****d
发帖数: 13718 | 114 还在讨论呐
费不费电我不讨论，不过不建议关空调，尤其在湿度大的地区，人不在的时候调高点好了
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 他不肯承认这个错误阿，因为他平时给人的回帖就试图给人以专家的印象，这回错了，
: 怎么好再装呢。
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 115 Nobody want to 多开290miles everyday if can be avoided, it is necessary to
begin with and he is using the highest mpg car avail already.
If you can understand that, you will have no trouble understand my situation.
I use all resources in the most efficient way that is currently possible.
If I have bought something I plan to use it, AC to keep me cool and water to
keep my lawn green.
Unlike some people here, after they bought the house, they refuse to turn on
the AC because it use electricity, they
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 如果第二个人本来只需要开10miles就够了却非要多开290miles，那即便是他用100mpg
: car来开，也是waste more.
:
: waste
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 116 是的，说“关”空调，其实就是指调高温度设定，让空调在没人的时候少工作，但为了
舒适不要让人回来时太热，所以不能完全关掉。
好了
【在 m*****d 的大作中提到】
: 还在讨论呐
: 费不费电我不讨论，不过不建议关空调，尤其在湿度大的地区，人不在的时候调高点好了
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 117 你现在为了把地下的gas用掉，免得便宜了后来人，跟多开290miles是一回事，不管你是多么“有效率”的使用他们
situation.
to
on
it
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Nobody want to 多开290miles everyday if can be avoided, it is necessary to
: begin with and he is using the highest mpg car avail already.
: If you can understand that, you will have no trouble understand my situation.
: I use all resources in the most efficient way that is currently possible.
: If I have bought something I plan to use it, AC to keep me cool and water to
: keep my lawn green.
: Unlike some people here, after they bought the house, they refuse to turn on
: the AC because it use electricity, they
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 118 not 恼羞成怒,
I just think you misunderstood my post.
I would be happy to discuss.
I am not talking about my house in most of the post, only talking about most
new construction house, should say, all energy star certified house or LEED
house. Or even ICF or SIP house with good windows without the certification.
I already said in the very beginning, poorly built house from 20-30 years
ago, will save money by turnning up or turnning off AC when you are away.
There is a balance point where AC efficienc
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 我看你是完全不懂大家在说什么。
: 你不想说，可以不回我的帖子，不要恼羞成怒。
:
: ,
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 119 You are wrong, I did not waste anything, I only use what I need, not a bit
more.
next
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: “I got enough gas to last at least 300 years, should I save it for the next
: owner?”
: 这句话很明显暴露了你是在waste energy，就像是你一天吃一个苹果就够了，十个苹果
: 就撑了，但是你为了不让别人占便宜，一天要吃一百个。
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 120 行了，你继续自娱自乐吧，俺是跟你说累了。
看看版上还有没有其他兄弟愿意继续教育下你的。
most
LEED
certification.
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: not 恼羞成怒,
: I just think you misunderstood my post.
: I would be happy to discuss.
: I am not talking about my house in most of the post, only talking about most
: new construction house, should say, all energy star certified house or LEED
: house. Or even ICF or SIP house with good windows without the certification.
: I already said in the very beginning, poorly built house from 20-30 years
: ago, will save money by turnning up or turnning off AC when you are away.
: There is a balance point where AC efficienc
|
|
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 121 How did you come to that conclusion? What makes you think I am 跟多开
290miles是一回事, the guy drive 300 miles have a reason, he need to drive
that 300 mile, but can choose to do it with 10mpg car or 50 mpg car.
You assumption is wrong, the second guy does not choose to 290 more miles so
he can simply waste more gas. You got it all wrong. That is why I said you misunderstood my post.
你是多么“有效率”的使用他们
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 你现在为了把地下的gas用掉，免得便宜了后来人，跟多开290miles是一回事，不管你是多么“有效率”的使用他们
:
: situation.
: to
: on
: it
|
f****i
发帖数: 20252 | 122 Don't even think about educating 鸽总，A Ph. D can be educated by Journal papers.
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 我这几天算是白费了。我也放弃 :)
|
f****i
发帖数: 20252 | 123 This I don't agree.
Amish people use what they need.
You just use whatever you want, and makes yourself believe you are only
taking what is needed.
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: You are wrong, I did not waste anything, I only use what I need, not a bit
: more.
:
: next
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 124 I learn something new everyday, "grow to old, learn to old"
No one knows everything, feel free to educate me if you know something I don
't.
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: Don't even think about educating 鸽总，A Ph. D can be educated by Journal papers.
|
f****i
发帖数: 20252 | 125 The less money I spend, the less energy I use. That is my opinion.
don
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I learn something new everyday, "grow to old, learn to old"
: No one knows everything, feel free to educate me if you know something I don
: 't.
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 126 I do not agree, I just happen to visit an amish community in Lancaster PA
last month, they use more than they need now and are more wasteful in some
ways than me for sure, at least that is what I see with my own eyes when I
was there.
They may put on a show just for you.
What you need is a very difficult question, when I grew up in china, 2 sq
meter of living space per person is all you need, and do you still believe
that is all you need today in US?
How much money do you really need to survive?
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: This I don't agree.
: Amish people use what they need.
: You just use whatever you want, and makes yourself believe you are only
: taking what is needed.
|
f****i
发帖数: 20252 | 127 How do you differentiate between need and want then？
家有千间，还缺一间？
that
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I do not agree, I just happen to visit an amish community in Lancaster PA
: last month, they use more than they need now and are more wasteful in some
: ways than me for sure, at least that is what I see with my own eyes when I
: was there.
: They may put on a show just for you.
: What you need is a very difficult question, when I grew up in china, 2 sq
: meter of living space per person is all you need, and do you still believe
: that is all you need today in US?
: How much money do you really need to survive?
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 128 你可以浪费,所以你就不要把浪费当作节能来这里吹嘘了.你那一套对我们来说都是天顶
星的生活方式
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I got enough gas to last at least 300 years, should I save it for the next
: owner?
: Most of the them are used to pump in the water in well, in swimming pool,
: fountain, water lawn. Also charge golf cart, fork lift, etc.
: When I am home, listen to music, watch tv, get online. They all use
: electricity.
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 129 you are wasting energy efficiently. that's it.
for all you pools, lawns, those are luxury life that normal people doesn't n
eed, and can not be afforded by our earth.
Stop using them if you really want to do good to this environment.
that
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: I do not agree, I just happen to visit an amish community in Lancaster PA
: last month, they use more than they need now and are more wasteful in some
: ways than me for sure, at least that is what I see with my own eyes when I
: was there.
: They may put on a show just for you.
: What you need is a very difficult question, when I grew up in china, 2 sq
: meter of living space per person is all you need, and do you still believe
: that is all you need today in US?
: How much money do you really need to survive?
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 130 Tell me how you live first, how many sq ft is your house? How many bathrooms
? etc.
n
【在 T*********e 的大作中提到】
: you are wasting energy efficiently. that's it.
: for all you pools, lawns, those are luxury life that normal people doesn't n
: eed, and can not be afforded by our earth.
: Stop using them if you really want to do good to this environment.
:
: that
|
|
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 131 You tell me first.
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: How do you differentiate between need and want then？
: 家有千间，还缺一间？
:
: that
|
f****i
发帖数: 20252 | 132 Need needs. Want living.
I do not need an iphone.
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: You tell me first.
|
T*********e
发帖数: 9208 | 133 你家几口人？
bathrooms
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Tell me how you live first, how many sq ft is your house? How many bathrooms
: ? etc.
:
: n
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 134 Very good point you brought up.
Ok, so you do not need an iphone now.
But do you need a cell phone? Try ask yourself the same question 30 years
ago and would your answer be?
But do you even need a telephone? Try ask yourself the same question 100
years ago and would your answer be?
As time goes on, we humans need and want different things.
When I was little, my whole family don't even use 10KWH per month, we don't
have fridge, computer, wash machine, telephone, etc. Guess what I wanted and
neede
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: Need needs. Want living.
: I do not need an iphone.
|
f****i
发帖数: 20252 | 135 If you want to have a living standard that is above those of average Joes
walking on street, of course you are entitled to have it. Enjoy all the
convenience that is associated with high price tag when accessible. But IMHO these are called luxuries, not needings.
Comparing needings item from differnt time era based on fuctions of items
are meaningless. You do not need me to point it out with your educational
background.
t
and
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: Very good point you brought up.
: Ok, so you do not need an iphone now.
: But do you need a cell phone? Try ask yourself the same question 30 years
: ago and would your answer be?
: But do you even need a telephone? Try ask yourself the same question 100
: years ago and would your answer be?
: As time goes on, we humans need and want different things.
: When I was little, my whole family don't even use 10KWH per month, we don't
: have fridge, computer, wash machine, telephone, etc. Guess what I wanted and
: neede
|
g*****9
发帖数: 4125 | 136 So all you want is live like an average joe walking on the street.
What are luxuries, is having a car luxury? How about 2 cars? How about 2
cars and a boat? Where do you draw the line?
Sorry, but I want to live better than just an average joe, and I worked hard
for many years from below the average joe level, and I am going back.
人往高处走, that is how I was taught, I hope you are not teaching your kids
"they should be satisfied if they are as good as an average joe". If we don'
t push ourself to be
【在 f****i 的大作中提到】
: If you want to have a living standard that is above those of average Joes
: walking on street, of course you are entitled to have it. Enjoy all the
: convenience that is associated with high price tag when accessible. But IMHO these are called luxuries, not needings.
: Comparing needings item from differnt time era based on fuctions of items
: are meaningless. You do not need me to point it out with your educational
: background.
:
: t
: and
|
s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 137 谁也不阻止你往高处走，大伙也都想着往高处走，不过没有人消耗了几十倍的能源还要
鼓吹自己是节能先锋。
他的意思是人不能既做婊子又想立牌坊。话糙理不糙。
谁也不要对号入座
hard
kids
don'
【在 g*****9 的大作中提到】
: So all you want is live like an average joe walking on the street.
: What are luxuries, is having a car luxury? How about 2 cars? How about 2
: cars and a boat? Where do you draw the line?
: Sorry, but I want to live better than just an average joe, and I worked hard
: for many years from below the average joe level, and I am going back.
: 人往高处走, that is how I was taught, I hope you are not teaching your kids
: "they should be satisfied if they are as good as an average joe". If we don'
: t push ourself to be
|
a******e
发帖数: 36306 | 138 戈小胖同学可以来报道了
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 谁也不阻止你往高处走，大伙也都想着往高处走，不过没有人消耗了几十倍的能源还要
: 鼓吹自己是节能先锋。
: 他的意思是人不能既做婊子又想立牌坊。话糙理不糙。
: 谁也不要对号入座
:
: hard
: kids
: don'
|
a*k
发帖数: 21 | 139 行了,跟一个装B犯有啥可吵的?
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: 谁也不阻止你往高处走，大伙也都想着往高处走，不过没有人消耗了几十倍的能源还要
: 鼓吹自己是节能先锋。
: 他的意思是人不能既做婊子又想立牌坊。话糙理不糙。
: 谁也不要对号入座
:
: hard
: kids
: don'
|
