w******h 发帖数: 2 | 1 小弟是EE的本,phD打算转应用数学中的密码学方向。
据说这个需要特别多的数学基础?
小弟有一些数学基础,但也都是EE的数学课,上过信息论,代数类的课程,不知道还应
该补哪些课程?
迷茫中,恳请指点。先谢谢了 |
s*x 发帖数: 3328 | 2 现学现补足足够了,盲目乱补一气没什么用。
【在 w******h 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 小弟是EE的本,phD打算转应用数学中的密码学方向。 : 据说这个需要特别多的数学基础? : 小弟有一些数学基础,但也都是EE的数学课,上过信息论,代数类的课程,不知道还应 : 该补哪些课程? : 迷茫中,恳请指点。先谢谢了
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w********9 发帖数: 8613 | 3
You are asking a wrong question that few can answer, and perhaps on a wrong
board. :-) I am not a 牛牛. But I am trying to help.
You don't need much to study cryptology or cryptography. It should be
covered in a chapter of a few courses in CE or CS (computer network security
, or algorithms). It is a quite narrowed field, and it is now more about
applications or practices of existing schemes. It is hard to come up with a
popularly accepted new scheme.
You can check Rivest's Algorithm book, and pl
【在 w******h 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 小弟是EE的本,phD打算转应用数学中的密码学方向。 : 据说这个需要特别多的数学基础? : 小弟有一些数学基础,但也都是EE的数学课,上过信息论,代数类的课程,不知道还应 : 该补哪些课程? : 迷茫中,恳请指点。先谢谢了
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v********e 发帖数: 1058 | 4 are you sure?
wrong
security
a
has
in
【在 w********9 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : You are asking a wrong question that few can answer, and perhaps on a wrong : board. :-) I am not a 牛牛. But I am trying to help. : You don't need much to study cryptology or cryptography. It should be : covered in a chapter of a few courses in CE or CS (computer network security : , or algorithms). It is a quite narrowed field, and it is now more about : applications or practices of existing schemes. It is hard to come up with a : popularly accepted new scheme. : You can check Rivest's Algorithm book, and pl
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w********9 发帖数: 8613 | 5
I am not sure what you are trying to tell me. :)
Not much number theory knowledge is needed. Anyone can pick up what he needs when studying the topic. The topic is often taught to CE or CS students. About
half of it covers the dominating DES and RSA, hashing, algorithms, and
protocols.
RSA is near the very front because of internet. So it should be checked out.
There are just a few other significantly popularly recognized algorithms
there.
Fundamentally the topic is just too algorithm-specific.
【在 v********e 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : are you sure? : : wrong : security : a : has : in
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z**5 发帖数: 221 | 6 汗一个,就网络安全课上那点玩意儿也叫密码学?如果那也算密码学的话,那么连小学
里学的最大公约数也算数论了。还真拿航模当飞机啊?
To 楼主:劝你不要改学密码。由于种种原因,中国人改搞这玩意儿的,几乎没有成功
的先例。而且这玩意儿现在已经进入低潮期,典型的投入大产出小,不值得。
如果你非想试试看不可,那么自己在网上下载Goldwasser & Bellare的Lecture Notes
on Cryptography。你要是能坚持把前50页念下来,可以考虑学密码;否则就算了吧。
(在顺便说一句,美国弄密码的,90%在cs dept,8%在math dept,2%在EE,我还没见过
applied math dept有搞密码的。现在讲的应用数学,一般多指数值计算和力学。)
needs when studying the topic. The topic is often taught to CE or CS
students. About
out.
Without addressing specific algorithms, not much can be said about
pri
【在 w********9 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : I am not sure what you are trying to tell me. :) : Not much number theory knowledge is needed. Anyone can pick up what he needs when studying the topic. The topic is often taught to CE or CS students. About : half of it covers the dominating DES and RSA, hashing, algorithms, and : protocols. : RSA is near the very front because of internet. So it should be checked out. : There are just a few other significantly popularly recognized algorithms : there. : Fundamentally the topic is just too algorithm-specific.
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w********9 发帖数: 8613 | 7
Depending course load. LZ needs an entry point right to have a feel of the
front. He does not need to read Stinson's book at this point, does he?
See above. DES and RSA are what he needs to pick up the most in the shortest
time. After that, read Song Yan's
Cryptanalytic Attacks on RSA
2008
Springer
As I said, it is quite narrow, research field is very algorithm specific,
and RSA is the front. RSA is pretty much narrowed down to factorization of
larg composites. Best cracking time is not polynom
【在 z**5 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 汗一个,就网络安全课上那点玩意儿也叫密码学?如果那也算密码学的话,那么连小学 : 里学的最大公约数也算数论了。还真拿航模当飞机啊? : To 楼主:劝你不要改学密码。由于种种原因,中国人改搞这玩意儿的,几乎没有成功 : 的先例。而且这玩意儿现在已经进入低潮期,典型的投入大产出小,不值得。 : 如果你非想试试看不可,那么自己在网上下载Goldwasser & Bellare的Lecture Notes : on Cryptography。你要是能坚持把前50页念下来,可以考虑学密码;否则就算了吧。 : (在顺便说一句,美国弄密码的,90%在cs dept,8%在math dept,2%在EE,我还没见过 : applied math dept有搞密码的。现在讲的应用数学,一般多指数值计算和力学。) : : needs when studying the topic. The topic is often taught to CE or CS
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w********9 发帖数: 8613 | 8 What I showed you is the shortest path to the front. You don't really need
too much at this point, before you decide to really do you phd work on it.
If you really want to read more. Here is a link for a free stuff which is
quite well written.
http://www.cacr.math.uwaterloo.ca/hac/ |
z**5 发帖数: 221 | 9 算了吧你,在你看来能读Stinson就算很牛了,是不是?你恐怕还不知道Stinson是专门
用来胡弄那些只会2+3=5的美国小本的教材吧?真弄密码的人绝对不会把Stinson当成一
本严肃的专业书,人家看了你的话要喷饭了。
你还一口一个Algorithm specific,我ft。严格地讲,RSA不能算一个Algorithm的,你明白这句话的意思吗?弄密码其实跟算法没啥关系,倒是跟complexity比较接近。
自己不懂不要紧,别出来忽悠别人好不好。
shortest
.
【在 w********9 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : What I showed you is the shortest path to the front. You don't really need : too much at this point, before you decide to really do you phd work on it. : If you really want to read more. Here is a link for a free stuff which is : quite well written. : http://www.cacr.math.uwaterloo.ca/hac/
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w********9 发帖数: 8613 | 10
You should know that you are boasting.
Then your 1-week long MIT course notes complied from various sources is? It
is rigorous with mathematical formalism or computer science description, but
fundamentally it is largely dealing with the same topics at about the same
level. One doesn't have to pick up everything to get to the front, for some
of the systems are quite unrelated.
Stinction's book is a popular reference or textbook for a cryptography
course. There are only a few textbooks out there
【在 z**5 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 算了吧你,在你看来能读Stinson就算很牛了,是不是?你恐怕还不知道Stinson是专门 : 用来胡弄那些只会2+3=5的美国小本的教材吧?真弄密码的人绝对不会把Stinson当成一 : 本严肃的专业书,人家看了你的话要喷饭了。 : 你还一口一个Algorithm specific,我ft。严格地讲,RSA不能算一个Algorithm的,你明白这句话的意思吗?弄密码其实跟算法没啥关系,倒是跟complexity比较接近。 : 自己不懂不要紧,别出来忽悠别人好不好。 : : shortest : .
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w********9 发帖数: 8613 | 11
"
Show me what you really have. Nobody can argue with anyone providing no real
content but simple contests.
【在 v********e 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : are you sure? : : wrong : security : a : has : in
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w********9 发帖数: 8613 | 12
I have been suggesting that you give positive input for LZ, but not that actually argue with no material. :)
【在 v********e 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : are you sure? : : wrong : security : a : has : in
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m*********a 发帖数: 2000 | 13 oh, shit, you think cs is math?
forget about talking as if you are above anybody else
你明白这句话的意思吗?弄密码其实跟算法没啥关系,倒是跟complexity比较接近。
【在 z**5 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 算了吧你,在你看来能读Stinson就算很牛了,是不是?你恐怕还不知道Stinson是专门 : 用来胡弄那些只会2+3=5的美国小本的教材吧?真弄密码的人绝对不会把Stinson当成一 : 本严肃的专业书,人家看了你的话要喷饭了。 : 你还一口一个Algorithm specific,我ft。严格地讲,RSA不能算一个Algorithm的,你明白这句话的意思吗?弄密码其实跟算法没啥关系,倒是跟complexity比较接近。 : 自己不懂不要紧,别出来忽悠别人好不好。 : : shortest : .
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z**5 发帖数: 221 | 14 开口就是一个“shit”,今天你刷牙了没有啊?
你如果认为密码不属于数学,那随便你好了,我又不care。下次开国际数学大会的时候
,你可以给国际数学联盟打个电话,让他们千万不要邀请密码学家做报告,免得把神圣
的数学场子给玷污了,呵呵。
噢,对了,忘了提醒你一下,当今国际数学联盟主席L Lovasz好像是在cs系混饭吃的。
你别忘了教育他一下cs不是数学噢。
【在 m*********a 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : oh, shit, you think cs is math? : forget about talking as if you are above anybody else : : 你明白这句话的意思吗?弄密码其实跟算法没啥关系,倒是跟complexity比较接近。
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z**5 发帖数: 221 | 15 对了,就是一本1-week long MIT course notes,看起来比Stinson的红书差多了,不
是吗?嘿嘿,你要是能真把它读懂了,再写两篇paper你就可以拿密码的PhD毕业。
得,你就当我吹牛好了,我又不care你怎么想。像你这样学过两天网络安全就觉得自己
特懂密码的人,我见得多得去了。就此打住,不再回复这个话题。
It
but
same
some
A
lost by at least a half.
【在 w********9 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : I have been suggesting that you give positive input for LZ, but not that actually argue with no material. :)
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m*********a 发帖数: 2000 | 16 are you lovasz? if you are not , why the hell bother to mention him?
I also remembered you are the guy who once said something stupid comparing "
CX" to some mathematician: it just shows how narrow you are.
So stop it , dude.
Not to mention you have not achieved anything, even if you do, you should
not say anything so offensive to a guy who provides detailed comments.
【在 z**5 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 开口就是一个“shit”,今天你刷牙了没有啊? : 你如果认为密码不属于数学,那随便你好了,我又不care。下次开国际数学大会的时候 : ,你可以给国际数学联盟打个电话,让他们千万不要邀请密码学家做报告,免得把神圣 : 的数学场子给玷污了,呵呵。 : 噢,对了,忘了提醒你一下,当今国际数学联盟主席L Lovasz好像是在cs系混饭吃的。 : 你别忘了教育他一下cs不是数学噢。
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l******e 发帖数: 470 | 17 其实还是看做密码理论还是做实践还是做数据安全拉。
理论确实接近complexity。证明安全性啥的,而且都基于假设的,理论挺有意思,有啥
用只有做的人自己知道,呵呵。
rsa不是algorithm那还能是啥?algorithm范畴不要太广。
不过设计码的和搞attack那种技巧更多点,当然没啥深的理论,但是却在实用和影响实
用。
当然啥椭圆曲线xx码要很多数学,不过和complexity没啥关系。
你明白这句话的意思吗?弄密码其实跟算法没啥关系,倒是跟complexity比较接近。
【在 z**5 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 算了吧你,在你看来能读Stinson就算很牛了,是不是?你恐怕还不知道Stinson是专门 : 用来胡弄那些只会2+3=5的美国小本的教材吧?真弄密码的人绝对不会把Stinson当成一 : 本严肃的专业书,人家看了你的话要喷饭了。 : 你还一口一个Algorithm specific,我ft。严格地讲,RSA不能算一个Algorithm的,你明白这句话的意思吗?弄密码其实跟算法没啥关系,倒是跟complexity比较接近。 : 自己不懂不要紧,别出来忽悠别人好不好。 : : shortest : .
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h******d 发帖数: 1 | 18 同意这个 这个话题没啥可争论的 大家和谐点:)
就是看作的方西了有做偏向实现的 不需要那么多数学
当然这是数学版 也可以向楼上说的 数学多作点的 elliptic curve
方面的一些问题 bob silverman, karl rubin 等数学的也在做
个人觉得密码和算法也有关系阿 例如用到algorithmic number theory
【在 l******e 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 其实还是看做密码理论还是做实践还是做数据安全拉。 : 理论确实接近complexity。证明安全性啥的,而且都基于假设的,理论挺有意思,有啥 : 用只有做的人自己知道,呵呵。 : rsa不是algorithm那还能是啥?algorithm范畴不要太广。 : 不过设计码的和搞attack那种技巧更多点,当然没啥深的理论,但是却在实用和影响实 : 用。 : 当然啥椭圆曲线xx码要很多数学,不过和complexity没啥关系。 : : 你明白这句话的意思吗?弄密码其实跟算法没啥关系,倒是跟complexity比较接近。
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w********9 发帖数: 8613 | 19 I don't want you to get confused by all those arguements.
I am going back to my own starting statements:
"You are asking a wrong question that few can answer, and perhaps on a wrong
board. :-) I am not a 牛牛. But I am trying to help."
This is much more a CS topic than a mathematical one. RSA was first
publicized by ACM. The three guys got Turing awards instead of Wolf prizes
in math, Fields medals, or things like those. Standards. Protocols.
Algorithms and complexities. Defenses and attacks. Enha |