h***y
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lovelypony (pony) 于 (Mon Apr 18 23:40:56 2011, 美东) 提到:
请教前辈：
近3年来, AMG 持续下跌, CMG只要拿到IV, 基本稳进 －－请问可有出处？我们今年要申的现在心里都没有底，这样说的话是不是我们都申病理保底，拿到IV的话心里就有底了？
我听去年申请病理的一些同学的说法是，现在病理非常competitive，不少非常优秀的
AMGs也在申，因为life style好。
多谢了。
发信人: ChiUSMD (治病救热), 信区: MedicalCareer
标 题: Re: [合集] 关于老刀前辈的讨论
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Mon Apr 18 23:14:52 2011, 美东)
去对广大申请病理的人来说, 近3年来, AMG 持续下跌, CMG只要拿到IV, 基本稳进. 所以
辅导不辅导没太大关系. 见习除非ATTENDING 帮忙, 否则没太大用.
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ChiUSMD (治病救热) 于 (Tue Apr 19 13:30:00 2011, 美东) 提到:
Sorry, i prefer using English as typing Chinese is too time consuming for me
.
I did not have the chance to study this year's match result, but based on my
personal experience and feedbacks I got from various meetings.
first of all, most pathology programs still do not employ group interview,
that means path programs commonly only interview 1-2 candidates a day. It
will be very difficult for any programs to interview more than 60 candidates
in the interview season. AmG nowadays tends to interview more than 10
programs, and that number is even bigger for IMGs. The simple math here, if
a program has 6 spots, it needs at least 60 candidates on the match list for
an average program.
second: path programs are relatively sensitive. IMGs can get into top path
programs. (how many top programs in other specialties take IMGs?) Most low
end IM/surg programs only need a competent body to work, they really have no
interests in your career development. the academic path programs do care
the career of their residents. So, if you show the signs of not devoting to
path only, most likely you won't be ranked. Therefore, every year we don't
rank many people using path as a safe net. Therefore, the rank list is short.
Third: thanks to some CMGs application strategy, some candidates applied
near 100 programs, which artificially bubble the market. Every single
program has almost the same candidate list, which make the battle field move
to get the interview spot.
fourth: there is a revere selection. Most good academic programs won't offer
prematches, and small low end programs commonly push for pre-matches. As
long as you stay in the match, you will get your top 3 choices for sure.
Fifth: this is a myth about good AMGs applying for Path. Traditionally,
there are always 2 populations for path: the real academic nerds and people
can't get any other offers. With the more and more adoption of standard
tests in path and the need for academic pathologists, most academic programs
prefer good IMGs instead of people with low USMLE scores.
Enough to say: Path application is not as hard as it looks. Trying to get
the interview spot is the most important thing to do. The incoming year will
be another big year for IMGs into path. Your competitiors are not AMGs, but
are other IMGs, especially from middle east. Using all connections you have
to get at least the coutousy interview, you will be safe for the match.
Good luck
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Lotustea (lotus) 于 (Tue Apr 19 13:47:24 2011, 美东) 提到:
I too heared pathology is very competitive nowdays .
Lots of IMG with strong research background are targeting at pathology,some even are assistant professors with NIH grant.
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hmis (hmis) 于 (Tue Apr 19 13:55:25 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thank you very much!!!
consuming for me
based on my
interview,
day. It
candidates
10
here, if
list for
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ChiUSMD (治病救热) 于 (Tue Apr 19 15:18:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
Depend on who you talk to. We have to compare apple to apple. Keep one thing
in mind, path is not a wastebasket. Pathologists compensation is higher
than many IMs, Peds, FMs etc. It is still a relatively competitive programs.
Not no AMGs applying, just not enough good AMGs. many programs choose to
rank good IMGs instead of lousy AMGs.
for those people cann't get into any other specialties and assume path is
the lowest in food chain, it is competitive.
If you can have 90/90, within 10 years graduation, nice research background
with or without PhD, you have a good shot on some big name programs.
For assistant professor with NIH grant, it is not a plus for application. As
a CMG, I can fully understand his/her motives, but it is a hard sell to
many Americans.
If you can't reach above criteria, it is not the end of the world. Applying
for path, homework is very important. Which program take old CMGs, which
prefer observeship, which rated publication, which tends to take CMGs (male
or female). I do know some >20yrs graduates with low 80s get matched. Know
your enemy and get help.
some even are assistant professors with NIH grant.
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Lotustea (lotus) 于 (Tue Apr 19 15:40:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thank you very much. It is very encouraging........
thing
programs.
background
As
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herby (消夏) 于 (Tue Apr 19 16:17:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
前辈答疑总是这么耐心。 去年面试季节您也是这样耐心地指导了大家很多,替大伙谢谢
您了。 :)
thing
programs.
background
As
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skyscorpio (天之蝎子) 于 (Tue Apr 19 16:30:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
would you please make some comments about how to improve interview skills?
Thanks a lot!
thing
programs.
background
As
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lovelypony (pony) 于 (Tue Apr 19 17:17:31 2011, 美东) 提到:
Thanks a lot for your kind reply, appreciate.
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Lotustea (lotus) 于 (Tue Apr 19 17:29:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
再问下ChiUSMD前辈：
曾看到过一个帖子说“病理是小专业，所以如果将来找工作有明确的地理位置限
制，难度会非常大”。如果配偶的工作性质比较局限，对location 比较挑剔，这种情
况下，病理住院医毕业后，也有可能会面临long distance 的挑战。单从这点上说，内
科是不是就好很多了？地理位置要求没什么限制？
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yangyang09 (step3 努力中!!!) 于 (Tue Apr 19 17:33:49 2011, 美东) 提到:
I don't think so. I personally know someone with one-year fellowship
training got attending position from University of Washington, Yale and Penn
State University this year.
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yangyang09 (step3 努力中!!!) 于 (Tue Apr 19 17:44:24 2011, 美东) 提到:
在西北大学面试的时候，PD 对我说她对我最大的 concern 是我是不是还申请了内科。
后来得知我只申请了病理，她马上说她不再有任何 concern，而且一定会 rank。这个
问题基本上去面试的所有病理单位都会问。
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nn928 (baoma) 于 (Tue Apr 19 17:47:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
其实在小地方钱赚得多啊。
把老公工资也赚了吧。
Penn
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yangyang09 (step3 努力中!!!) 于 (Tue Apr 19 17:52:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
认识的另一个朋友今年皮肤病理一年fellow结束，已经在离家不远的地方找到 private
practice 的 attending 位置，好羡慕的说！
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nabla (nabla) 于 (Tue Apr 19 17:53:13 2011, 美东) 提到:
我觉得对病理来讲，这个问题比内科更突出。当然内科也有这个问题。
关键还是自己到底喜欢什么专业最重要。
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yangyang09 (step3 努力中!!!) 于 (Tue Apr 19 18:03:00 2011, 美东) 提到:
是不是可以这么理解，无论什么专业，如果能做得很好，就可以找到理想的工作。
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Lotustea (lotus) 于 (Tue Apr 19 18:31:33 2011, 美东) 提到:
如果没有地理位置限制（全国范围找），无论什么专业，只要能做的好，基本能找到工
作。如果非某地不去，那要看机遇吧，没有opening，做的再好，也找不到啊
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lovelypony (pony) 于 (Tue Apr 19 20:52:31 2011, 美东) 提到:
谢谢大家的回复。
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ChiUSMD (治病救热) 于 (Tue Apr 19 22:53:14 2011, 美东) 提到:
Let's discuss job first before talking about the interviews, which will be
almost 6 months away.
Path is a hidden gold mine for many people. When I applied for residency in
last century, I never thought about path at the beginning since I did many
years of surgery in China. In China, Path is 医技not 临床科室. 在医院转了几
圈后, and talk to several residents in different specialties. 发现美国病理医
生待遇地位很高,又不用整天被人烦, 且全美病理界老外老美各占半壁江山. 所以决定
宁做鸡头不做凤尾.
Path job market is much better than most people thouhgt. There are 3 major
categories of jobs
1. academic center (college town or big city)
2. big commercial lab (most in big cities)(no calls, 9 to 5only)
3. private practice (everywhere, bu most in small or rural area)
Pure academic centers all have hard time to recruit and keep people, as the
salary is only 1/2 to 1/3 of the private practice. So if you have to
accomodate your wife or husband's career, you have to sacrifice your career.
Traditionally, most path departments are all inbreed system. Pick the
specialty your department needs not your interest, most likely they will
keep you afterwards. As I mentioned before, most path programs are very
eager to help you find the job and most path jobs are not posted. many
programs are willing to creat a temporary job for their residents during the
transitional period. the bottom line is that you have to be a good resident
and team player.
If you have the big heart for career and/or money, then you will have the
hard time to accomodate your other half.
有一点切记: 病理地域性很强, 所以要在某地找工作, 最好到那儿做FELLOW.当然凡事
没那么绝对.
绕了一大圈, 我就是想说, 这是心态和perception的问题. 美国医生工作最多的地方是
小医院和诊所, 对于一个在社区医院做住院医的, 很容易接受; 但对一个在大学特别是
名校有许多科研背景的, 并不太愿意去; 那和博士不好嫁是一个道理. 看看病理和内科
大多在那里做住院医就行了
long distance 都是为事业自己选择的, 没见过真找还找不到
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skyscorpio (天之蝎子) 于 (Wed Apr 20 00:17:38 2011, 美东) 提到:
前辈这番话估计将会掀起麦地今年申请病理的大潮，呵呵
现在申请住院医的人里头有很多都是拿不准自己该申请什么科，因为对美国的临床也不
了解，也没有说特别明显地喜欢什么科，所以也在考虑申请病理。
您有时间能不能结合自己见过的例子讲讲什么样的品质很适合做病理，会做得很顺利；
相反，什么缺点需要改正否则作病理容易犯错？ 这样子可以给今年申请的同学提供一
个参考，决定自己是不是能做好病理。
多谢多谢！
in
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Lotustea (lotus) 于 (Wed Apr 20 00:58:29 2011, 美东) 提到:
搜索的一些关于pathology job market方面 的信息。 总体来说情况不是太乐观。当然，不知道情况是否属实。 这都是2009 年发表的一些帖子。 不知道现在的市场是怎么样的变化。。。。
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ChiUSMD (治病救热) 于 (Wed Apr 20 10:36:34 2011, 美东) 提到:
I don't know what to tell you. I have been in this field for long time, and
hardly heard anyone could not find any jobs. The market did peak around 2004
, and has been stable for a while.
path is not like IM, the society is so small that if someone having bad
reputation might be very difficult to find another job.
path does not like IM, bad ones 很难混, 许多美国学生是因为太差才做病理, 这部
分人可能一辈子都找不到工作. 我见过两个这样的, 考了7年都没过BOARD.
look the compensation report to see the market salary
http://www.info-healthcare.com/compensation_report.pdf
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smallstone (小丸子) 于 (Wed Apr 20 16:42:18 2011, 美东) 提到:
我知道的很有限，不过去年年底我在病理轮转，正值fellow/resident找工作。自认为
我们学校还是很不错的，可是大家显然对于形势还是很悲观。一个Fellow刚拿到外州的
private practice的offer，尽管不满意还是立即答应了，因为工作很不好找。还有个
工作没有着落的fellow知道我申什么科后，唉声叹气道：“Smart choice, I wished I
had applied XXX. The job market is much better." 因为工作难找，想留校的不少
，貌似也得多费一番周折。
and
2004
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lovelypony (pony) 于 (Wed Apr 20 21:18:35 2011, 美东) 提到:
非常感谢治病就热前辈的详细解答，这两天忙着其他杂事也没空回复，见谅！和很多同
学讨论过申请什么专业的问题，因为大部分同学临床经验很有限，也说不上来自己到底
热爱那个专业，病理相对而言life style好，对CMGs相对比较友好，相信也是很多同学
的选择。能得到前辈们一些对病理的看法，对我们作出关键的这一步选择帮助很大，再
次感谢！
我自己的理解是，在申请前得多做homework，搞清楚自己长处到底在哪，把所有力气花
在一个specialty上，集中突破。申请多个科室的话很难说服别人自己到底兴趣在什么
地方。就象yangyang说的，如果你在面病理，让人家知道你又同时申了内科，rank自然
就靠后了。－－不知道这个说法对不对，前辈们请指正。
以后就业的问题，我自己倒没考虑那么长远，觉得只要兢兢业业的把工作做好，将来不
挑地方，至少有口饭吃吧。现在最关键的就是先入门吧，还要看自己的兴趣。－－持不
同意见的请轻拍。。
多谢多谢！ |
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