d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 1 A friend of mine just did a PET ct. The whole procedure takes less than 2
hours. First they gave her some injection of nuclear material then let her
rest in a reclining chair in a small room for 1 hour. Then she was taken to
do the PET CT, which took 20 minutes.
The bill submitted to insurance consists of:
(1) $5800 for the use of the facility (I guess that's for the use of the
reclining chair in the small room?)
(2) $1800 for the radiologist who wrote the PET ct report.
Can anyone tell me how much will go to the radiologist? I am guessing 1800
plus 50% of $5800, which is $4700. The total time the radiologist spent on
the pet ct is probably less than 1 hour. So his hourly rate is around $5000.
I think I strongly support Obamacare that cut off payments to doctors. This
is too much!!!!!! | L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 2 I wonder what is the base of your guess?
"I am guessing 1800 plus 50% of $5800," | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 3 The radiologist will get 100% of the 1800 -- I don't think you have a
problem with this.
When a surgeon operates on a patient, there is a hospital charge. The
surgeon usually gets a percentage of the hospital charge, because the
patient came to the hospital to be operated by the surgeon. For the same
reason, the radiologist should get a percentage of the hospital charge as
well.
It also makes sense since we all know that the radiologist's salary is
pretty high, and the hospital only needs to pay rent, insurance, and nurses
who have a very low salary.
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: I wonder what is the base of your guess?
: "I am guessing 1800 plus 50% of $5800,"
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 4
---this covers radiologist's salary, benefits, malpractice, their office
overhead...i don't have a problem with this, do you?
---this is explicitly prohibited to prevent self referral. ie you are less
likely to see your doctor take you to an inferior quality place so that he/
she can make more money. do you have a problem with that?
nurses
---yeah, they are. but they earned it. Hospital have to pay lots of bills,
and nurses are not cheap, and insurance is no joking matter either. you are
paying a lot to cover other who don't pay a dime. and those who hoping to
cash in/win a lottery by suing.
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: The radiologist will get 100% of the 1800 -- I don't think you have a
: problem with this.
: When a surgeon operates on a patient, there is a hospital charge. The
: surgeon usually gets a percentage of the hospital charge, because the
: patient came to the hospital to be operated by the surgeon. For the same
: reason, the radiologist should get a percentage of the hospital charge as
: well.
: It also makes sense since we all know that the radiologist's salary is
: pretty high, and the hospital only needs to pay rent, insurance, and nurses
: who have a very low salary.
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 5 Come on, all medical doctors need to buy insurance. Why are radiologists so
special?
A 15 minute chat with a primary care doctor costs 200. That doctor also
needs to pay rent, staff and insurance. His hourly rate is only 800.
A hospital stay of 48 hours plus a 4-6 hour surgery costs 37k. The surgery
costs 12k and the hospital stay costs 11k. Various tests and pharmacy cost
14k. If 50% of hospital charges goes to the surgeon, the surgeon would get 0
.5*11+12=17.5k. The surgeon's hourly rate is 3k to 4.4k.
Now tell me, what makes the radiologist, who just looks at various
pictures on CD and writes reports, more risky than the surgeon who actually cuts patients?
,
are
to
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
:
: ---this covers radiologist's salary, benefits, malpractice, their office
: overhead...i don't have a problem with this, do you?
: ---this is explicitly prohibited to prevent self referral. ie you are less
: likely to see your doctor take you to an inferior quality place so that he/
: she can make more money. do you have a problem with that?
: nurses
: ---yeah, they are. but they earned it. Hospital have to pay lots of bills,
: and nurses are not cheap, and insurance is no joking matter either. you are
: paying a lot to cover other who don't pay a dime. and those who hoping to
| z**********4
发帖数: 467 | 6 Why radiology is not well paid in China???? | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 7 I am puzzled by the reverse -- why radiologists are so well paid in the
states?
【在 z**********4 的大作中提到】
: Why radiology is not well paid in China????
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 8 I don't understand it. Is the radiologist getting a percentage of what is
being paid to the hospital or not?
In any case, compare the 1 hour stay at the radiologist's hospital with the
48 hour stay at a regular hospital. The former charges 5800/hour and the
latter charges 11k/48 hour.
this is explicitly prohibited to prevent self referral. ie you are less
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
:
: ---this covers radiologist's salary, benefits, malpractice, their office
: overhead...i don't have a problem with this, do you?
: ---this is explicitly prohibited to prevent self referral. ie you are less
: likely to see your doctor take you to an inferior quality place so that he/
: she can make more money. do you have a problem with that?
: nurses
: ---yeah, they are. but they earned it. Hospital have to pay lots of bills,
: and nurses are not cheap, and insurance is no joking matter either. you are
: paying a lot to cover other who don't pay a dime. and those who hoping to
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 9
If 50% of hospital charges goes to the surgeon, the surgeon would get
Again, where does this big "IF" come from? out of your imagination?
radiologists are well paid because their service is valuable.
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: I don't understand it. Is the radiologist getting a percentage of what is
: being paid to the hospital or not?
: In any case, compare the 1 hour stay at the radiologist's hospital with the
: 48 hour stay at a regular hospital. The former charges 5800/hour and the
: latter charges 11k/48 hour.
:
: this is explicitly prohibited to prevent self referral. ie you are less
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 10 The "if" is my guess. Otherwise, how do you explain that 1 hour stay at the
radiologist's hosptial costs 5800 and a 48 hour stay at a regular hospital
costs 11k?
Which doctor's service is not valuable? (Or better yet, why is any car
dealer's service not just as valuable? Why is any janitor's service not more
valuable?) Why radiologists is so special?
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
:
: If 50% of hospital charges goes to the surgeon, the surgeon would get
: Again, where does this big "IF" come from? out of your imagination?
: radiologists are well paid because their service is valuable.
| | | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 11 The "if" is my guess. Otherwise, how do you explain that 1 hour stay at the
radiologist's hosptial costs 5800 and a 48 hour stay at a regular hospital
costs 11k?
Which doctor's service is not valuable? (Or better yet, why is any car
dealer's service not just as valuable? Why is any janitor's service not more
valuable?) Why radiologists is so special?
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
:
: If 50% of hospital charges goes to the surgeon, the surgeon would get
: Again, where does this big "IF" come from? out of your imagination?
: radiologists are well paid because their service is valuable.
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 12 no further explanation needed:
the hospital (no hospital own by a radiologist or group of radiologists as
far as i know, cuz generally hospital is not a good business to own) charges
u 5800 for use of the facility, which covers: building, equipment, nursing,
technicians, yeah and the little chair u sit on.
Radiologist charge $1800 for interpretation of the result.
--------------------
if the car dealer's service or janitor's service is the same valuable as an
radiologist, why don't you have your CAT scan done in a car dealership, or
a restroom then?
the
more
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: The "if" is my guess. Otherwise, how do you explain that 1 hour stay at the
: radiologist's hosptial costs 5800 and a 48 hour stay at a regular hospital
: costs 11k?
: Which doctor's service is not valuable? (Or better yet, why is any car
: dealer's service not just as valuable? Why is any janitor's service not more
: valuable?) Why radiologists is so special?
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 13 Did you match in radiology or is that one of your goals? I heard that it is
super-competitive.
charges
nursing,
an
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: no further explanation needed:
: the hospital (no hospital own by a radiologist or group of radiologists as
: far as i know, cuz generally hospital is not a good business to own) charges
: u 5800 for use of the facility, which covers: building, equipment, nursing,
: technicians, yeah and the little chair u sit on.
: Radiologist charge $1800 for interpretation of the result.
: --------------------
: if the car dealer's service or janitor's service is the same valuable as an
: radiologist, why don't you have your CAT scan done in a car dealership, or
: a restroom then?
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 14 neither, i respect radiologist, and think they deserve what they are paid.
is
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Did you match in radiology or is that one of your goals? I heard that it is
: super-competitive.
:
: charges
: nursing,
: an
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 15 Obama should outsource that to China/India/Australia; maybe that would lead
to affordable medical care. LOL.
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: neither, i respect radiologist, and think they deserve what they are paid.
:
: is
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 16 if they have to go through same kind of training as required here, their
charge will be as high, if not higher.
lead
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Obama should outsource that to China/India/Australia; maybe that would lead
: to affordable medical care. LOL.
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 17 If they have to come to receive the training in the U.S. and compete to get
into radiology residencies, you are right that their fee would be just as
high.
If they can be trained in their home country, their charge is not going to
be in the comparable range with the radiologists here.
But I just found a pilot project at Massachusetts hospital 6/7 years ago
that outsourced work to non-US trained radiologists has generated tons of
hate emails from radiologists who are afraid that their income might drop or
they might lose their jobs.
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: if they have to go through same kind of training as required here, their
: charge will be as high, if not higher.
:
: lead
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 18 what if they outsource your job which you spent 4 yrs of your time (assuming
u graduate from college and get a job, say IT) , what will be your reaction
? multiply that by ^3.
get
or
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: If they have to come to receive the training in the U.S. and compete to get
: into radiology residencies, you are right that their fee would be just as
: high.
: If they can be trained in their home country, their charge is not going to
: be in the comparable range with the radiologists here.
: But I just found a pilot project at Massachusetts hospital 6/7 years ago
: that outsourced work to non-US trained radiologists has generated tons of
: hate emails from radiologists who are afraid that their income might drop or
: they might lose their jobs.
| P********r
发帖数: 92 | 19 I, personally, look forward to the 'Globalization of medical services'. :-)
I feel once it realized, it may not that simple 'outsource' (for poor ones
on medicaid maybe), but there would be alot of 'in-source' (Say those
oversea typhoons trying to buy US docs services). After all, when facing
life and death, if there is a price-tag to put the mind at peace (it doesn't
even have to be a cure for the situation), you'd go for that, right?
Look at the way Asian countries consume the european luxuries, I bet those
are the ones smart enough to know where to go shopping for their health care
, even in cash. lol
Say, get the diagnosis and then treat locally, ect
lead
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Obama should outsource that to China/India/Australia; maybe that would lead
: to affordable medical care. LOL.
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 20 Personally, I don't buy any of the self-entitlement thing. Just because you
spent 12 years in training doesn't mean you are entitled to a higher paying
job. Talk to any of the biology/chemistry/physics post-docs, you will
understand what I mean.
Seriously, if all radiologists think about is the their entitlement to more
money, I think the solution for affordable medical care is to outsource their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We need doctors who
really care about people and not doctors who see people's illnesses as gold
mines to get themselves mercedes, etc. This is too pathetic.
assuming
reaction
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: what if they outsource your job which you spent 4 yrs of your time (assuming
: u graduate from college and get a job, say IT) , what will be your reaction
: ? multiply that by ^3.
:
: get
: or
| | | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 21 I think rich people in developing countries are already coming to the US for better
medical treatment if better medical treatment is available. All doctors in
the United States accept cash payment. There is never a problem for that.
However, rich people are not idiots. They are not going to pay a higher
price just because the lable is "U.S. trained". My friend who had the PET ct
is considering to do the PET ct in China next year if her insurance doesn't
cover it.
't
care
【在 P********r 的大作中提到】
: I, personally, look forward to the 'Globalization of medical services'. :-)
: I feel once it realized, it may not that simple 'outsource' (for poor ones
: on medicaid maybe), but there would be alot of 'in-source' (Say those
: oversea typhoons trying to buy US docs services). After all, when facing
: life and death, if there is a price-tag to put the mind at peace (it doesn't
: even have to be a cure for the situation), you'd go for that, right?
: Look at the way Asian countries consume the european luxuries, I bet those
: are the ones smart enough to know where to go shopping for their health care
: , even in cash. lol
: Say, get the diagnosis and then treat locally, ect
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 22 What is really pathetic is that what that got pay doesn't need your approval
...feel free to go back to where you come from to get medical service, no
one stops you from doing that.
you
paying
more
their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We
need doctors who
gold
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Personally, I don't buy any of the self-entitlement thing. Just because you
: spent 12 years in training doesn't mean you are entitled to a higher paying
: job. Talk to any of the biology/chemistry/physics post-docs, you will
: understand what I mean.
: Seriously, if all radiologists think about is the their entitlement to more
: money, I think the solution for affordable medical care is to outsource their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We need doctors who
: really care about people and not doctors who see people's illnesses as gold
: mines to get themselves mercedes, etc. This is too pathetic.
:
: assuming
| P********r
发帖数: 92 | 23 They come to US no matter 'better treatment‘ is available or not --- it is
like if you are very sick, you want to stick with your village doctor who
had lots of hands-on experiences, or you want to 进城 看病。Other than the
facilities and machines are way better, the doctors might do not much
different things.
US trained in the big setting of US med system is a big brand. yes, they are
people coming simply becuase of that.
As to your friend, nice that he has the option to go back to China. May no
complications or anything like that, or else, it would totally not worth it.
PS: I ALMOST decided to do illumine in Beijing, (to make your teeth look
like hollywood actress. lol) Then my friend over there in the big hospital
talked me out of that and I was called being so 'cheap' to myself. Here is
what i was told: the material used is totally different although they do
tell you it is what they use in US (yes, it is always using US as the
standard to coax patients across the board in hospitals). Then, follow-ups
might be involved. Then, if the material is different, you may or may not
tolerate that well, ect... --- Just food for thought when you go medical Tx
overseas, especially when the purpose is to save money. How much do you
TRUST that system or doctor? Plus, have you considered RED ENVELOPE?
A Funny ending to my story, since i do not have a fat wallet and not brave
enough to challenge my immune system, I'd live with my non-hollywood teeth
condition. lol
But, i agree with you that there is room to improve in us med system. the first step is to get rid of the
sneaky slimy lawyers for 50 million law suit?
for better
ct
't
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: I think rich people in developing countries are already coming to the US for better
: medical treatment if better medical treatment is available. All doctors in
: the United States accept cash payment. There is never a problem for that.
: However, rich people are not idiots. They are not going to pay a higher
: price just because the lable is "U.S. trained". My friend who had the PET ct
: is considering to do the PET ct in China next year if her insurance doesn't
: cover it.
:
: 't
: care
| z**********4
发帖数: 467 | 24 Outsource is not possible. American patients could get first class surgery
in China for much less price. | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 25 That's certainly an option. Another option is to vote for the presidential
candidate who get the bloodsucking doctors out of the system. Medicare reform has been a hotly debated topic in almost every presidential election. Do you not agree that being a doctor is not as profitable as it was 20 years ago and some doctors even think they will make 80k/yr a few years down the road? Like it or not, doctors salary are dependent on american people's approval. LOL!
approval
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: What is really pathetic is that what that got pay doesn't need your approval
: ...feel free to go back to where you come from to get medical service, no
: one stops you from doing that.
:
: you
: paying
: more
: their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We
: need doctors who
: gold
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 26 why hasn't there been a president campaign with the slogan :"get rid of the
bloodsucking doctors"? maybe you can be the campaign adviser for O8, he will
need some extra help this time.
not,
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: That's certainly an option. Another option is to vote for the presidential
: candidate who get the bloodsucking doctors out of the system. Medicare reform has been a hotly debated topic in almost every presidential election. Do you not agree that being a doctor is not as profitable as it was 20 years ago and some doctors even think they will make 80k/yr a few years down the road? Like it or not, doctors salary are dependent on american people's approval. LOL!
:
: approval
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 27 We are making progress here. Doctors today are no longer as profitable as
they were 20 years ago, and some doctors even worry that their salary will
be on par with engineers a few years down the road, e.g. 80k. Like it or not
, Obamacare has caused some doctors to go broke. CNN has an article on this
topic. But I agree with you that Obama needs to do more. Outsourcing
radiologists is a good one ot add to Obama's agenda.
the
will
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: why hasn't there been a president campaign with the slogan :"get rid of the
: bloodsucking doctors"? maybe you can be the campaign adviser for O8, he will
: need some extra help this time.
:
: not,
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 28 I acclaim you for your decision. I have a doctor friend in China who
strongly recommends against any costmetic treatment. He said that the no
adverse defects are mostly a propaganda prompted by the comstic surgery
industry. The long term effects are unknown because the lack of studies.
enough to challenge my immune system, I'd live with my non-hollywood teeth
condition. lol
【在 P********r 的大作中提到】
: They come to US no matter 'better treatment‘ is available or not --- it is
: like if you are very sick, you want to stick with your village doctor who
: had lots of hands-on experiences, or you want to 进城 看病。Other than the
: facilities and machines are way better, the doctors might do not much
: different things.
: US trained in the big setting of US med system is a big brand. yes, they are
: people coming simply becuase of that.
: As to your friend, nice that he has the option to go back to China. May no
: complications or anything like that, or else, it would totally not worth it.
: PS: I ALMOST decided to do illumine in Beijing, (to make your teeth look
| z**********4
发帖数: 467 | 29 Well,
It is not a good analogy. It could be a matter of social fairness. That is
why so few Americans want to be biology/chemistry/physics post-docs. Those
labor-intense jobs are for foreigners.
you
paying
more
their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We
need doctors who
gold
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Personally, I don't buy any of the self-entitlement thing. Just because you
: spent 12 years in training doesn't mean you are entitled to a higher paying
: job. Talk to any of the biology/chemistry/physics post-docs, you will
: understand what I mean.
: Seriously, if all radiologists think about is the their entitlement to more
: money, I think the solution for affordable medical care is to outsource their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We need doctors who
: really care about people and not doctors who see people's illnesses as gold
: mines to get themselves mercedes, etc. This is too pathetic.
:
: assuming
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 30 Computer sciences PhDs also don't regularly make as much as radiologists
make, 300k to 400k.
【在 z**********4 的大作中提到】
: Well,
: It is not a good analogy. It could be a matter of social fairness. That is
: why so few Americans want to be biology/chemistry/physics post-docs. Those
: labor-intense jobs are for foreigners.
:
: you
: paying
: more
: their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We
: need doctors who
| | | P********r
发帖数: 92 | 31 Thanks for making me feel better. :-)
But I am afraid you missed the point of what makes me shy away--- 没有诚信啊
。如果我们不铁的话，说辞就不一样了。我可能正臭美哪。
还有导管啥的，多嘴的人说 全市美国用的。再打听说美国是一次性的，’我们这儿‘
也就用个几次吧 (倒真的希望这不是真的）。Surely enough, you could argue so what, the life is saved
and it still do the trick.
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: I acclaim you for your decision. I have a doctor friend in China who
: strongly recommends against any costmetic treatment. He said that the no
: adverse defects are mostly a propaganda prompted by the comstic surgery
: industry. The long term effects are unknown because the lack of studies.
:
: enough to challenge my immune system, I'd live with my non-hollywood teeth
: condition. lol
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 32 Rich people will give the doctors enough bribe such that they get to use new
medical equipments. Your concern of reusing the medical equipments is not
something the rich is worrying about.
Even Americans themselves do not buy the "U.S. trained" brand as increasing
amount of Americans are going overseas for expensive medical operations.
A Chinese woman asked a few days ago in a north america internet forum
whether it is better to give birth in the U.S. or in China. The concensus in
that forum seems to be that Chinese ob/gyns are more experienced, thereby
injuries the the newborns and the moms are much less likely, but U.S.has
nicer hospital rooms.
The "U.S. trained" brand is increasingly losing its luster.
‘
what, the life is saved
【在 P********r 的大作中提到】
: Thanks for making me feel better. :-)
: But I am afraid you missed the point of what makes me shy away--- 没有诚信啊
: 。如果我们不铁的话，说辞就不一样了。我可能正臭美哪。
: 还有导管啥的，多嘴的人说 全市美国用的。再打听说美国是一次性的，’我们这儿‘
: 也就用个几次吧 (倒真的希望这不是真的）。Surely enough, you could argue so what, the life is saved
: and it still do the trick.
| C*****D
发帖数: 1299 | 33 You probably live in your own world.
PET scan is not cheap in China. I have a classmate is the chair of nuclear
medicine in a tertiary medical center of a big metropolitean city. She told
me she made slightly less than me, but lots of free trips, gifts etc.
The patient suite is better than most US hospitals, you can get referal
kickback.
The tide has already been reversed. Many Chinese came to US for surgery are
due to lower cost(not higher), becasue they don't have to pay bribe money.
The average physician salary has been steadily increased (there are tons
statistics out there) for the last 10 years. For example, 10 years ago,
resident starting salary was $30-33,000, now is around $45-48,000. similar
for physician starting salaries, at least 30-50% more than 10 yrs ago,
exceeding inflation rate.
BTW: PET belongs to nuclear medicine not radiology
for better
ct
't
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: I think rich people in developing countries are already coming to the US for better
: medical treatment if better medical treatment is available. All doctors in
: the United States accept cash payment. There is never a problem for that.
: However, rich people are not idiots. They are not going to pay a higher
: price just because the lable is "U.S. trained". My friend who had the PET ct
: is considering to do the PET ct in China next year if her insurance doesn't
: cover it.
:
: 't
: care
| z**********4
发帖数: 467 | 34 PET belongs to radiology.
All the residents are required to have at least 1-2 months rotation in PET/
CT. You could do a nuke fellowship after residency. But pure nuke doc has a
very hard time finding a satisfactory job. But if you go through radiology
residency followed by a nuke fellowship, man.... you are big time
competitive.
told
are
【在 C*****D 的大作中提到】
: You probably live in your own world.
: PET scan is not cheap in China. I have a classmate is the chair of nuclear
: medicine in a tertiary medical center of a big metropolitean city. She told
: me she made slightly less than me, but lots of free trips, gifts etc.
: The patient suite is better than most US hospitals, you can get referal
: kickback.
: The tide has already been reversed. Many Chinese came to US for surgery are
: due to lower cost(not higher), becasue they don't have to pay bribe money.
: The average physician salary has been steadily increased (there are tons
: statistics out there) for the last 10 years. For example, 10 years ago,
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 35 i don't know what you mean by making progress, there will be specialties in
and out of favor, and there will always be some specialties better paid than
the others, but in general, physician will always be a well paid well
respected profession in a society that respect LIFE.
if you are referring to medicare cut as your progress, read a little about
history of medicare, which only came into form in the 60's under LBJ (who
happen to be a democrap) trying to fix SS, it's going to go broke like many
other BIG GOVERNMENT run program (does USPS, FMN, FMCC sound familiar?).
Many physicians long stopped accepting medicare. - It's just another
insurance plan, if you don't play fair, i won't take it. This is a free
country, there is no force labor - physician's pay is based on what the
society value their service for, no holly grail here.
Instead of hopping others going down, one would probably better off spent
the time and effort trying make yourself better, regarded higher by society,
and paid better. you know what, there will probably be hundreds of other
professions making more than u or i, but as long as the rule is fair, i'm ok
.
not
this
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: We are making progress here. Doctors today are no longer as profitable as
: they were 20 years ago, and some doctors even worry that their salary will
: be on par with engineers a few years down the road, e.g. 80k. Like it or not
: , Obamacare has caused some doctors to go broke. CNN has an article on this
: topic. But I agree with you that Obama needs to do more. Outsourcing
: radiologists is a good one ot add to Obama's agenda.
:
: the
: will
| P********r
发帖数: 92 | 36 给你吃地沟油，没人问你的。用地沟油是因为下馆子的太穷？早有预防系出身的教育我
’为什么在加工后地沟油OK‘。
别的我就不评论了。不少朋友在国内行医，挺不容仪的；heard stories of 'known'
docs being slapped on the face, stabbed on the back, intimidated not dare to
walk out of doc's office, insulted verbally and some even got clothes
stripped. I hope you and those who agrees with you on the web to refer give
birth in China, as outsiders, will voice your voice back in China to arouse
the attention of how good services they provide in terms of the rate they
charged! Then, I'd really appreciate!
For your bills, i hope it's not out of your pocket. As majority of docs do,
i hope you will find out wha the problem is before you want to fix any
problem/ system.
new
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Rich people will give the doctors enough bribe such that they get to use new
: medical equipments. Your concern of reusing the medical equipments is not
: something the rich is worrying about.
: Even Americans themselves do not buy the "U.S. trained" brand as increasing
: amount of Americans are going overseas for expensive medical operations.
: A Chinese woman asked a few days ago in a north america internet forum
: whether it is better to give birth in the U.S. or in China. The concensus in
: that forum seems to be that Chinese ob/gyns are more experienced, thereby
: injuries the the newborns and the moms are much less likely, but U.S.has
: nicer hospital rooms.
| x*****0
发帖数: 101 | 37 美国医生工资高是因为美国医生工会限制医生人数. 至于所说的”physician's pay is
based on what the society value their service for, no holly grail here.”完
全是医生对公众的洗脑. | L*****s
发帖数: 24744 | | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 39 no.
【在 L*****s 的大作中提到】
: 就是看片吗?对自己身体有害吗,长期的话..
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 40 I am not sure about your world vs my world thing.
PET Scan in China doesn't cost anywhere close to $7600. That's for sure.
Also, what does your friend's salary have to do with anything? Doctors in
the United States take kickbacks and gifts ALL THE TIME.
You should give an example of what procedure Chinese are choosing to do in
the United States and what are the expenses in China vs. in U.S.. As far as
I know (and I do know more than you think I would know), this hasn't been
the trend or norm.
Well, I don't want to argue with you on the average physician's salary. If
that's your dream of becoming a physician, go ahead. However, I think you
will be disappointed if you once find out that the money is not as much as
you think there is.
told
are
【在 C*****D 的大作中提到】
: You probably live in your own world.
: PET scan is not cheap in China. I have a classmate is the chair of nuclear
: medicine in a tertiary medical center of a big metropolitean city. She told
: me she made slightly less than me, but lots of free trips, gifts etc.
: The patient suite is better than most US hospitals, you can get referal
: kickback.
: The tide has already been reversed. Many Chinese came to US for surgery are
: due to lower cost(not higher), becasue they don't have to pay bribe money.
: The average physician salary has been steadily increased (there are tons
: statistics out there) for the last 10 years. For example, 10 years ago,
| | | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 41 Absolutely agree.
is
【在 x*****0 的大作中提到】
: 美国医生工资高是因为美国医生工会限制医生人数. 至于所说的”physician's pay is
: based on what the society value their service for, no holly grail here.”完
: 全是医生对公众的洗脑.
| s********7
发帖数: 4681 | | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 43 (1) Obama is not an idiot. Just by putting life in capital letters doesn't
give doctor the license to treat people's illnesses as goldmines.
(2) Private insurances need to answer to their shareholders/owners. If Medicare is reducing payment, private insurances are not going to give doctors a free ride but are going to reduce payment to doctors as well. True, no forced labor in the U.S. so doctors don't have to take any insurance and can opt to take cash only. Can doctors still charge $200 for a physical and $7600 for a PET ct? How many paycheck-to-paycheck Americans have $200 in their bank accounts, let alone $7600?
(3) Seriously, do you think people really believe "
regarded higher by society" ? This is capitalism America and everyone is for themselves. Insurance companies don't want doctors to make money, patients never want to pay the doctor anything, and government with a huge deficit is not going to just stand by and do nothing. Why is Obamacare even in place if what doctors do is so "regarded higher by
society"?
(4) I have discovered that the more money people have, the more stingy they tend to be. When Bill Gates goes out, if there is a $5 remote parking lot, he wouldn't park in a $7 convenient located parking lot. So just by encouraging people to work hard and be rich is not going to solve the problem that nobody wants to pay $7600 for a PET CT.
in general, physician will always be a well paid well
respected profession in a society that respect LIFE.
Many physicians long stopped accepting medicare. - It's just another
insurance plan, if you don't play fair, i won't take it. This is a free
country, there is no force labor - physician's pay is based on what the
society value their service for, no holly grail here.
Instead of hopping others going down, one would probably better off spent
the time and effort trying make yourself better, regarded higher by society,
and paid better. you know what, there will probably be hundreds of other
professions making more than u or i, but as long as the rule is fair, i'm ok
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: i don't know what you mean by making progress, there will be specialties in
: and out of favor, and there will always be some specialties better paid than
: the others, but in general, physician will always be a well paid well
: respected profession in a society that respect LIFE.
: if you are referring to medicare cut as your progress, read a little about
: history of medicare, which only came into form in the 60's under LBJ (who
: happen to be a democrap) trying to fix SS, it's going to go broke like many
: other BIG GOVERNMENT run program (does USPS, FMN, FMCC sound familiar?).
: Many physicians long stopped accepting medicare. - It's just another
: insurance plan, if you don't play fair, i won't take it. This is a free
| z****k
发帖数: 95 | 44 至于两个版面都发一遍么，市场供需吗，没人得cancer,radiologist不都得做千老去 | L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 45 i never try to convince you. Just state the other side of story. As a matter
of fact, when reading your last piece:"美国就医经历记"， my comment was
that you are the nightmare type, and a few other senior practitioners agreed.
i don't know how to be a comic, but "i Guess" and then jump out to shout "I
was robbed..."sounds pretty low standard even for a comic.
believe
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Absolutely agree.
:
: is
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 46 sorry, i never know how long a post would last here, so i ZT it over.
【在 z****k 的大作中提到】
: 至于两个版面都发一遍么，市场供需吗，没人得cancer,radiologist不都得做千老去
| B******a
发帖数: 20 | 47 看看西欧发达国家医生的工资，就知道美国医生值不值这个钱了。
他们平均的小时工资不比美国低，有些甚至更高，但医生的收入远没有美国医生收入高。
有新闻报道过。美国医疗占的GDP远高于西欧发达国家，甚至接近2倍，但各个医疗指标
，远差于其他发达国家。甚至比不上一些发展中国家。
所以美国医疗行业绝对是高投入，低产出的行业。其实美国只是体量大，各个行业基本
都是总量吓人，但不能看人均，不然连前10都排不进。
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Absolutely agree.
:
: is
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 48 The lowest standard possible (that I have ever seen) is on one hand talking
about "value LIFE" and on the other hand all your focus is on the money.
Seriously, the LIFE you are talking about is your LIFE only. Other people's
LIFE is not LIFE -- they are your LIFELESS gold mines. I think this is
extremely comical.
If you think this is nightmarish, just wait for more nightmares from Obama.
matter
agreed.
I
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: i never try to convince you. Just state the other side of story. As a matter
: of fact, when reading your last piece:"美国就医经历记"， my comment was
: that you are the nightmare type, and a few other senior practitioners agreed.
: i don't know how to be a comic, but "i Guess" and then jump out to shout "I
: was robbed..."sounds pretty low standard even for a comic.
:
: believe
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 49 i don't how smart is Obama, certainly not every president is smart.
huh? doctors taking cash only (dermotologist and plastic surgeons for
example) making much more on average while working less. their pay purely
supported by the market, for purely elective stuff. so don't "guess" and
then conclude. That's very bad if become a habit: haven't you heard don't
assume, it makes an ass out of u and me?
I don't know anyone can fool such a smart person like yourself, besides
yourself of course. I said you will be better off by working harder and
reach higher, not you go for being a physician. Even though u put a doctor
in your ID, i don't think you will enjoy being a doctor. seriously.
Medicare is reducing payment, private insurances are not going to give
doctors a free ride but are going to reduce payment to doctors as well. True
, no forced labor in the U.S. so doctors don't have to take any insurance
and can opt to take cash only. But they shouldn't complain when they can't
make ends meet because less than 2 patients show up in their office on any
given day.
"
This is capitalism America and everyone is for themselves. Insurance
companies don't want doctors to make money, patients hate doctors profiting
over their pain and suffering, and government with a huge deficit is not
going to just stand by and do nothing. Why is Obamacare even in place if
what doctors do is so "regarded higher by
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: (1) Obama is not an idiot. Just by putting life in capital letters doesn't
: give doctor the license to treat people's illnesses as goldmines.
: (2) Private insurances need to answer to their shareholders/owners. If Medicare is reducing payment, private insurances are not going to give doctors a free ride but are going to reduce payment to doctors as well. True, no forced labor in the U.S. so doctors don't have to take any insurance and can opt to take cash only. Can doctors still charge $200 for a physical and $7600 for a PET ct? How many paycheck-to-paycheck Americans have $200 in their bank accounts, let alone $7600?
: (3) Seriously, do you think people really believe "
: regarded higher by society" ? This is capitalism America and everyone is for themselves. Insurance companies don't want doctors to make money, patients never want to pay the doctor anything, and government with a huge deficit is not going to just stand by and do nothing. Why is Obamacare even in place if what doctors do is so "regarded higher by
: society"?
: (4) I have discovered that the more money people have, the more stingy they tend to be. When Bill Gates goes out, if there is a $5 remote parking lot, he wouldn't park in a $7 convenient located parking lot. So just by encouraging people to work hard and be rich is not going to solve the problem that nobody wants to pay $7600 for a PET CT.
:
: in general, physician will always be a well paid well
: respected profession in a society that respect LIFE.
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 50 i'm really sorry, but isn't your post about money - supposely robbed by the
radiologist? even what they clearly bill as facility charge, you put 50% of
that to radiologist? just by "guessing" - well, i'm glad u think i'm
comical, cuz i think you are a lousy comic :-)
talking
s
.
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: The lowest standard possible (that I have ever seen) is on one hand talking
: about "value LIFE" and on the other hand all your focus is on the money.
: Seriously, the LIFE you are talking about is your LIFE only. Other people's
: LIFE is not LIFE -- they are your LIFELESS gold mines. I think this is
: extremely comical.
: If you think this is nightmarish, just wait for more nightmares from Obama.
:
:
: matter
: agreed.
| | | d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 51 I don't care what you say -- in fact, nobody cares what you say. Only you
fool yourself into thinking somebody might care. So don't make an ass out of
yourself. Please go and take cash only out of your patients. If you don't
do that, you are truly an ass&&&&.
doctor
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: i don't how smart is Obama, certainly not every president is smart.
: huh? doctors taking cash only (dermotologist and plastic surgeons for
: example) making much more on average while working less. their pay purely
: supported by the market, for purely elective stuff. so don't "guess" and
: then conclude. That's very bad if become a habit: haven't you heard don't
: assume, it makes an ass out of u and me?
: I don't know anyone can fool such a smart person like yourself, besides
: yourself of course. I said you will be better off by working harder and
: reach higher, not you go for being a physician. Even though u put a doctor
: in your ID, i don't think you will enjoy being a doctor. seriously.
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 52 there were detail posts discussing this issue. please read some before we
continue further.
高。
【在 B******a 的大作中提到】
: 看看西欧发达国家医生的工资，就知道美国医生值不值这个钱了。
: 他们平均的小时工资不比美国低，有些甚至更高，但医生的收入远没有美国医生收入高。
: 有新闻报道过。美国医疗占的GDP远高于西欧发达国家，甚至接近2倍，但各个医疗指标
: ，远差于其他发达国家。甚至比不上一些发展中国家。
: 所以美国医疗行业绝对是高投入，低产出的行业。其实美国只是体量大，各个行业基本
: 都是总量吓人，但不能看人均，不然连前10都排不进。
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 53 You really should feel sorry because of Obama and everyone that is going to
vote for Obama. Isn't outsourcing worrying you the most because of your LIFE
is becoming LIFELESS like each of your patients?
Another reason you are comical is you know the trend but you can do nothing
to stop. All your words typed so diligently are falling on ears that couldn'
t care you less.
the
of
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: i'm really sorry, but isn't your post about money - supposely robbed by the
: radiologist? even what they clearly bill as facility charge, you put 50% of
: that to radiologist? just by "guessing" - well, i'm glad u think i'm
: comical, cuz i think you are a lousy comic :-)
:
: talking
: s
: .
| L****n
发帖数: 12932 | 54 hehe, i better shut up. otherwise you may end up getting a bill from
psychologist in a couple days.
of
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: I don't care what you say -- in fact, nobody cares what you say. Only you
: fool yourself into thinking somebody might care. So don't make an ass out of
: yourself. Please go and take cash only out of your patients. If you don't
: do that, you are truly an ass&&&&.
:
: doctor
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 55 Nobody cares what you do. Just remember this, if you don't take cash only
from your patients, you are truly an asshole.
And don't be scared by the nightmares given to you by Obama. LOL!
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: hehe, i better shut up. otherwise you may end up getting a bill from
: psychologist in a couple days.
:
: of
| B******a
发帖数: 20 | 56 看到了才来告诉你的。美国医生工资明显太高，但美国人的健康水平在发达国家里只能
算不及格。
结论很明显了。高投入低产出。
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: there were detail posts discussing this issue. please read some before we
: continue further.
:
: 高。
| C*****D
发帖数: 1299 | 57 That is pretty typical behavior of the losers like this.
Obama cares how to improve the economy not about losers. He just simply put
them on food stamps.
Don't insult Obama's intelligence, and most academic physicians are
democrats.
of
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: I don't care what you say -- in fact, nobody cares what you say. Only you
: fool yourself into thinking somebody might care. So don't make an ass out of
: yourself. Please go and take cash only out of your patients. If you don't
: do that, you are truly an ass&&&&.
:
: doctor
| h*******l
发帖数: 1542 | 58 欧洲的医生和工程师挣得差不多
【在 B******a 的大作中提到】
: 看到了才来告诉你的。美国医生工资明显太高，但美国人的健康水平在发达国家里只能
: 算不及格。
: 结论很明显了。高投入低产出。
| d********9
发帖数: 3927 | 59 Heard the state of union address last night? Reducing medicare payments is
on Obama's radar again. LOL!
put
【在 C*****D 的大作中提到】
: That is pretty typical behavior of the losers like this.
: Obama cares how to improve the economy not about losers. He just simply put
: them on food stamps.
: Don't insult Obama's intelligence, and most academic physicians are
: democrats.
:
: of
| d********y
发帖数: 616 | 60 There is nothing to do with the education or training for radiologists to
get high payments. It really has something to do with the successful
leaderships in radiologic field to run their business very well in U.S.
you
paying
more
their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We
need doctors who
gold
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: Personally, I don't buy any of the self-entitlement thing. Just because you
: spent 12 years in training doesn't mean you are entitled to a higher paying
: job. Talk to any of the biology/chemistry/physics post-docs, you will
: understand what I mean.
: Seriously, if all radiologists think about is the their entitlement to more
: money, I think the solution for affordable medical care is to outsource their jobs. They shouldn't even get into medicine in the first place. We need doctors who
: really care about people and not doctors who see people's illnesses as gold
: mines to get themselves mercedes, etc. This is too pathetic.
:
: assuming
| | | m****t
发帖数: 138 | 61 您老没发现LZ就是来抬杠的！
【在 L****n 的大作中提到】
: hehe, i better shut up. otherwise you may end up getting a bill from
: psychologist in a couple days.
:
: of
| l****g
发帖数: 5080 | 62 One factor at least is the tuition is way higher. You need to spend more
than 200,000$ to be one, higher than 500,000 if house and food is included,
and more than 12 years after high school. So the patients have to pay for
all of above at least, not to mention the patients also need to pay people
working for the insurance. Anybody does not like it, does not buy insurance,
does not get ill or let nature take its course, that simple.
【在 d********9 的大作中提到】
: I am puzzled by the reverse -- why radiologists are so well paid in the
: states?
| b********f
发帖数: 20 | 63 In 2009, the U.S. spent $2.53 trillion on health care, roughly the
equivalent of France's entire GDP.
Despite this spending, the United States is ranked 12th in life expectancy
for males and 16th for females.
高。
【在 B******a 的大作中提到】
: 看看西欧发达国家医生的工资，就知道美国医生值不值这个钱了。
: 他们平均的小时工资不比美国低，有些甚至更高，但医生的收入远没有美国医生收入高。
: 有新闻报道过。美国医疗占的GDP远高于西欧发达国家，甚至接近2倍，但各个医疗指标
: ，远差于其他发达国家。甚至比不上一些发展中国家。
: 所以美国医疗行业绝对是高投入，低产出的行业。其实美国只是体量大，各个行业基本
: 都是总量吓人，但不能看人均，不然连前10都排不进。
| z**********4
发帖数: 467 | 64 医疗的好坏跟life expectancy有关系，但是并不是决定因素，life expectancy最大的
决定因素是life style. |
|
