n*******y
发帖数: 3337 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 EasyMoney 俱乐部 】
发信人: newjersey (NJ furniture dealer), 信区: EasyMoney
标 题: 我的点数永动机
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue May 1 09:18:21 2012, 美东)
http://boardingarea.com/blogs/frequentmiler/2012/05/01/one-card
TNND. | L*******y
发帖数: 62 | 2 标 题: Re: 我的点数永动机
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue May 1 09:31:41 2012, 美东)
呵呵，一直很担心这自作聪明的老外，终于还是被这猪一样的队友给毁了。
TNND，既然被曝光了，大家一起曝吧。
我的点数永动机：
NETSPEND + VANILLA RELOAD NETWORK + OD
成本：0.798%
利润：10%
发信人: newjersey (NJ furniture dealer), 信区: EasyMoney
标 题: Re: 我的点数永动机
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue May 1 11:20:36 2012, 美东)
呵呵，这猪一样的队友还教大家用AMEX PREPAID洗钱，真是猪脑。
http://www.mitbbs.com/club_bbsdoc/EasyMoney.html
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 EasyMoney 俱乐部 】
: 发信人: newjersey (NJ furniture dealer), 信区: EasyMoney
: 标 题: 我的点数永动机
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue May 1 09:18:21 2012, 美东)
: http://boardingarea.com/blogs/frequentmiler/2012/05/01/one-card
: TNND.
| c*********7
发帖数: 19373 | | l********e
发帖数: 3999 | 4 mark
【在 n*******y 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 EasyMoney 俱乐部 】
: 发信人: newjersey (NJ furniture dealer), 信区: EasyMoney
: 标 题: 我的点数永动机
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue May 1 09:18:21 2012, 美东)
: http://boardingarea.com/blogs/frequentmiler/2012/05/01/one-card
: TNND.
| x*******g
发帖数: 523 | 5 羊毛最终是chase给的还是office depot给的? | z*******i
发帖数: 2904 | | c****u
发帖数: 147 | | E***1
发帖数: 2534 | | s***x
发帖数: 638 | 9 嗯
别搞的太狠了
那两个利用漏洞拿fatwallet/Nordstorm cashback 两年搞了1.4 M
最后被Fed抓了
3 | y***j
发帖数: 11235 | 10 展开说说吧。“那两个利用漏洞拿fatwallet/Nordstorm cashback 两年搞了1.4 M
"
让我们小朋友涨涨见识。
【在 s***x 的大作中提到】
: 嗯
: 别搞的太狠了
: 那两个利用漏洞拿fatwallet/Nordstorm cashback 两年搞了1.4 M
: 最后被Fed抓了
:
: 3
| | | s***x
发帖数: 638 | 11 http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1183673/?start=0
两个香港的
【在 y***j 的大作中提到】
: 展开说说吧。“那两个利用漏洞拿fatwallet/Nordstorm cashback 两年搞了1.4 M
: "
: 让我们小朋友涨涨见识。
| C********9
发帖数: 966 | | k****l
发帖数: 154 | 13 FBI Provides More Details on FatWallet / Nordstrom Fraud Scheme
APRIL 26, 2012 · 4 COMMENTS
I’ve been fascinated by this Nordstrom cashback fraud case involving Allen
and Andrew Chiu and FatWallet, and another court filing provided some
interesting additional details.
On March 13th, the U.S. Government requested forfeiture of the Chius’ funds
that they had confiscated in January as part of their investigation.
Attached to the claim was a 28-page affidavit sworn by Cory L. Cote, a 16-
year veteran of the FBI who investigated the case, describing in detail how
the scheme worked and how the brothers were eventually caught.
This is it in a nutshell. Note from the above graphic that the brothers
were ripping off Nordstrom and FatWallet for nearly four years, but within a
month of buying FatWallet, Ebates had caught on and banned them, and within
6 months of that, the brothers were charged with wire fraud. Ebates is on
the ball!
Here are the details:
Allen & Andrew Chiu
Allen Chiu (age 35), joined FatWallet in 2001 with the username achiu99, but
he didn’t use this account to place Nordstrom orders until Jan. 2008.
His brother Andrew (age 27) joined FatWallet in January 2003, as username
andyschiu. Andy started placing Nordstrom orders through this account in
October 2004. (In checking his FatWallet profile, his last login at
FatWallet was on 2/29/12. Returning to the scene of the crime? Lotta nerve
there, dude.)
It’s not clear when the brothers got the idea to start perpetrating “
friendly fraud” (placing orders and then claiming the order wasn’t
delivered or items were missing). But the FBI says that between Oct. 2007 (
when only Andy was a FatWallet member) and Sep. 2008 (when both were, Allen
having joined just that January), Nordstrom refunded to the brothers around
$1,500 between around 40 “friendly fraud” orders. Nordstrom processed
these as refunds, and FatWallet was able to identify this and reverse their
pending cashback. So the brothers’ angle at this point was just getting
free merchandise from Nordstrom.
Burberry Raincoat $1,195 at Nordstrom
But Nordstrom wised up. The last straw was in Sep. 2008, when Allen ordered
two Burberry coats for $1,195 each, then told Nordstrom that he just
received one. Nordstrom refused to credit him and in October 2008 sent both
brothers a “termination” letter for excessive suspicious orders.
Addressed to “A. Chiu,” they sent it to four known addresses the guys had
used. Nordstrom told the brothers that there would be no more refunds for
any loss claims and that they wouldn’t provide any service to the Chius in
the future, banning them from shopping at Nordstrom.com. Accordingly,
Nordstrom’s internal records marked the two as undesirable customers
residing at the four different addresses.
However at that time, fraud detection was a manual process, and the brothers
kept at it, submitting orders through FatWallet to Nordstrom, with several
orders slipping through the cracks.
The FBI agent’s affidavit says that around the end of 2009, Nordstrom
implemented a new automated online fraud detection system. This system had
one teeny tiny glitch that the Chius discovered and exploited. (They’re
smart guys — Andrew has a master’s in computer science and Allen has an
MBA in finance and operations management, both from Washington University in
St. Louis, which, btw, charges around $40,000 a year in tuition. Education
dollars well spent!)
Nordstrom successfully added the Chius’ information to the new fraud
detection program’s blacklist, and the system properly blocked and auto-
denied orders that either brother would submit. No credit card was charged,
and no items were shipped. However, the fraud detection system still
reported the sales to Linkshare (the network that connects merchants like
Nordstrom to websites like FatWallet)…and Linkshare reported them to
FatWallet as if they were legit.
Allen first noticed this when Nordstrom cancelled a $3,700 order he placed
on January 4, 2010, but FatWallet cashback credited anyway. Aha! A glitch!
Let’s exploit it! That is, after all, the FatWallet way! So, the
brothers amped up their activity: the two months prior to 1/4/10, they had
placed a combined 19 Nordstrom orders through FatWallet. The next two
months, it was game on: they placed 77 orders.
And the good times just kept on rollin’ — between January 5th, 2010 and
September 30th, 2011, a 22 month period, together the brothers did some
serious damage:
Placing approximately 4,000 Nordstrom orders through FatWallet,
Totaling around $23.7 million,
Which generated around $2 million in total sales commission to FatWallet.
And at an average of 4% cashback, earned the Chius $1.1 million.
They were actually paid $650,000 by way of 787 individual checks cut by
FatWallet to one or the other of the brothers…before they got caught in
October 2011.
What changed in October 2011? The prior month, Ebates bought FatWallet.
The FBI agent said that it was Ebates’ staff that caught the Chius. (Well,
they say it was PMB, the parent company…which is basically Ebates. Ebates
’ CEO is the CEO of PMB.) Ebates noticed the suspicious activity and
investigated, found the glitch and notified Nordstrom, then put a hold on
the brothers’ remaining unpaid $450,000 of pending FatWallet cashback.
For whatever reasons, Nordstrom did not immediately fix the glitch.
And as a result, the brothers tried the scam elsewhere. Foiled by FatWallet
(and obviously ignorant of the recent merger between the two), Andrew
reactivated a dormant Ebates account and then opened three more new ones,
and in October 2011 he submitted around 25 more Nordstrom orders through
Ebates, in amounts ranging from $3,400 to $15,260 (yeah, like they’re not
gonna notice that…but then again, FatWallet didn’t!).
They also went back to FatWallet and tried different combinations of names,
IDs, and mailing addresses to try to get paid there. They even tried opting
for PayPal. But by then, their scheme had been exposed.
By November the feds were all over this investigation, eventually Nordstrom
fixed the bug, and in January the government seized $972,000 of the brothers
’ money as part of their investigation. In March the wire fraud charges
were brought against the Chius, and in April they pleaded guilty. They may
get some of their money back, depending on the restitution ordered by the
judge in their August 10th sentencing. As part of their plea agreement,
prosecutors are asking for 24 to 30 months in prison, although the judge can
choose to throw the book at them.
How did the Chiu brothers pull off this scam for so long? They used 58
different credit cards from approximately 10 different financial
institutions. (33 were issued to Allen, and 25 to Andrew.) This included
multiple cards from AmEx, Barclays Bank, JP Morgan Chase, Citibank, Discover
, Pentagon Federal Credit Union, and others.
They used multiple FatWallet usernames, too, to avoid detection, including
cliftonx, dakota2k3, dakota2k4 (through 2k9), drewstanton2000, jdeepish,
ttho1999, ttebow1999, dantebest2000, hharryson, stantongiant2000, and
dfish1998. When an account’s total orders would near $3 million, they’d
ditch it and use another.
What did the brothers do with the money? They deposited it into three
separate checking accounts and co-mingled it with their own money,
periodically transferring some into various investment accounts with
Vanguard, where they bought stocks and mutual funds and made contributions
to their IRAs. (Remember, Allen’s master’s is in finance. Handy!) The
feds seized these funds as “property involved in money laundering
transactions, and subject to forfeiture.”
Canali Tuxedo, $1695 at Nordstrom (Out of Stock)
As an aside, the FBI agent noted that it was clear the brothers knew the
orders would be cancelled just by the ridiculous number of high-ticket items
they ordered. For example, in January 2010, Allen ordered 8 designer
tuxedos, and Andrew ordered 6. (I wonder if one of the brothers was getting
married?)
And another aside: one of the addresses the brothers had FatWallet send
checks to belongs to their parents. Their father is a St. Louis
anesthesiologist. When the FBI was investigating Andrew in November to
confirm his current address in Anaheim, they tracked him leaving his
apartment and getting into a car licensed to his parents. And the
investment accounts the brothers opened up to launder the money (the FBI’s
term, not an accusation on my part) were in their names but at the address
of their parents. Somebody’s getting a lump of coal in their stockings
this year!
So, to recap, here’s the money trail: Nordstrom’s fraud auto-detection
system properly cancelled the Chiu brothers’ orders but improperly reported
them to Linkshare as if they were legit. Then Nordstrom paid Linkshare
sales commission in error, Linkshare paid FatWallet their cut (the Feds say
it was 7% of sales), and Fatwallet paid the Chius their average of 4%
cashback.
For those of you playing along with us at home: Here’s a list of people
who could have caught this:
1. Nordstrom. They had at least one marketing employee assigned to work
with Linkshare. Linkshare has significant sales reporting abilities. If
the Nordstrom employee had noticed a spike in large orders at Linkshare (
some were in the thousands of dollars each), or the $23M jump in their
overall sales numbers through the affiliate channel in under 2 years, or the
huge increase in the sales generated by FatWallet specifically…this could
have been caught early. The employee didn’t catch anything. According to
LinkedIn, she’s still with the company. Nordstrom also must have had at
least one online fraud prevention employee who should have been monitoring
how well the new programming was working. It makes no sense that they would
flip the switch on new programming code and have no one test to make sure
it was working. And obviously there’s also a programmer to blame.
2. Linkshare. They also had at least one employee (she’s still employed
by Linkshare, my sources tell me, but managing another merchant’s account
now), and probably a team, that was responsible for working with Nordstrom
and managing Nordstrom’s affiliates. This person would have been very
familiar with Linkshare’s reporting system, which would have shown all of
the large dollar Nordstrom orders through FatWallet, and FatWallet’s
greatly improved performance trend for Nordstrom — they can see things like
conversion rates, average order value, etc. But no, no one noticed (or at
least, no one reported it).
3. FatWallet. I’m not familiar with their internal structure but it seems
logical that there are several people who could have caught this and
stopped it early on: their merchant relations staff, that works with stores
like Nordstrom to see if they’re hitting sales goals (they sure were!),
their accounting staff, that cuts checks to members (really, no one noticed
all of these checks in two guys’ names going to different addresses… 787
checks in 22 months?), their administration and ownership, looking at their
income statements and accounts payable, at one point in pretty close detail
as the company prepared to sell to Ebates. | b******s
发帖数: 695 | 14 没觉得你这些能比正常deal多赚多少。
正常一年能搞到4，5000，而且不用你这么担惊受怕。
3
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器 | c*****a
发帖数: 3965 | 15 互不妨碍，有能力就多搞点
【在 b******s 的大作中提到】
: 没觉得你这些能比正常deal多赚多少。
: 正常一年能搞到4，5000，而且不用你这么担惊受怕。
:
: 3
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb - 中文网站浏览器
| w********r
发帖数: 1971 | 16 不会是chase的每笔交易给10点吧，这个每次交易1cent可以拿回10cents，这个肯定会被chase咔嚓的，估计你说的跟这个类似，小额交易然后整数补齐？
3 | l*******n
发帖数: 2718 | 17 that's not comparable.
Those two guys actually committed crimes.
【在 s***x 的大作中提到】
: 嗯
: 别搞的太狠了
: 那两个利用漏洞拿fatwallet/Nordstorm cashback 两年搞了1.4 M
: 最后被Fed抓了
:
: 3
| s*******r
发帖数: 2697 | 18 这怎么看着像是一分钱一分钱的去搞freedom,还真有人这么去搞啊...
3 | w********r
发帖数: 1971 | 19 估计不是这个，这个以前有人搞过的，利用amazon的买gift card，而且用script，一
个月搞出好上千刀，后来chase直接没兑现就给封了，她这个封一个，显然不是chase的
风格，而且不会是chase,amex,citi等，应该是不见经传银行的[rogram
据我估计citizen bank，us bank,captial one等比较烂的银行可能性大，因为信用卡业务比较小，要是大的发卡银行，早就一堆人搞死了
【在 s*******r 的大作中提到】
: 这怎么看着像是一分钱一分钱的去搞freedom,还真有人这么去搞啊...
:
: 3
| l******r
发帖数: 682 | 20 nod,nod，而且chase也不用用点数去换gift card。
直接卖给二手的票贩子划算多了
卡业务比较小，要是大的发卡银行，早就一堆人搞死了
【在 w********r 的大作中提到】
: 估计不是这个，这个以前有人搞过的，利用amazon的买gift card，而且用script，一
: 个月搞出好上千刀，后来chase直接没兑现就给封了，她这个封一个，显然不是chase的
: 风格，而且不会是chase,amex,citi等，应该是不见经传银行的[rogram
: 据我估计citizen bank，us bank,captial one等比较烂的银行可能性大，因为信用卡业务比较小，要是大的发卡银行，早就一堆人搞死了
| | | y***j
发帖数: 11235 | 21 1分钱10点
9块钱 9000点+9块钱giftcard 靠谱。
【在 s*******r 的大作中提到】
: 这怎么看着像是一分钱一分钱的去搞freedom,还真有人这么去搞啊...
:
: 3
| y***j
发帖数: 11235 | 22 boa checking有帮忙pay零头，有人就搞这个。
会被chase咔嚓的，估计你说的跟这个类似，小额交易然后整数补齐？
【在 w********r 的大作中提到】
: 不会是chase的每笔交易给10点吧，这个每次交易1cent可以拿回10cents，这个肯定会被chase咔嚓的，估计你说的跟这个类似，小额交易然后整数补齐？
:
: 3
| w********r
发帖数: 1971 | 23 boa那个是有时间限制的，不是每个月都可以搞得，他说的明显是可以无限搞的
【在 y***j 的大作中提到】
: boa checking有帮忙pay零头，有人就搞这个。
:
: 会被chase咔嚓的，估计你说的跟这个类似，小额交易然后整数补齐？
| w********r
发帖数: 1971 | 24 citizen 有个类似的，每个交易给25cents，但是有20块每月封顶 | z*******5
发帖数: 2990 | 25 thank you preferred也可以搞了，还没有上限，citi还比较好。 | f**********n
发帖数: 3081 | 26 这两个人原来是靠假称 order的东西没受到，骗refund起家，无意发现网站漏洞，狂
abuse。 人品太低下了，先不说abuse,人人都可以take arbitrage 的机会。 他俩骗
refund起家，这就太让人不齿了。
【在 s***x 的大作中提到】
: http://www.fatwallet.com/forums/finance/1183673/?start=0
: 两个香港的
| s*******1
发帖数: 11216 | 27 Re.
【在 f**********n 的大作中提到】
: 这两个人原来是靠假称 order的东西没受到，骗refund起家，无意发现网站漏洞，狂
: abuse。 人品太低下了，先不说abuse,人人都可以take arbitrage 的机会。 他俩骗
: refund起家，这就太让人不齿了。
| l***s
发帖数: 259 | 28 老中真可怜,帮老印挣了0.9M,还要进监狱.
FW不是查不到,故意不说而已,白拿人2M,只分老中1.1M,还不用担责任.Linkshare也一样.
看来还是老美的ebates实在. | c********l
发帖数: 8138 | 29 "OD"是什么的简称？？
【在 L*******y 的大作中提到】
: 标 题: Re: 我的点数永动机
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue May 1 09:31:41 2012, 美东)
: 呵呵，一直很担心这自作聪明的老外，终于还是被这猪一样的队友给毁了。
: TNND，既然被曝光了，大家一起曝吧。
: 我的点数永动机：
: NETSPEND + VANILLA RELOAD NETWORK + OD
: 成本：0.798%
: 利润：10%
: 发信人: newjersey (NJ furniture dealer), 信区: EasyMoney
: 标 题: Re: 我的点数永动机
| y***j
发帖数: 11235 | 30 office depot
包子，plz
【在 c********l 的大作中提到】
: "OD"是什么的简称？？
| | | w*********t
发帖数: 319 | 31 why 10% profit?
does netspend prepaid card have reward program for 10% cash back for any
gift card purchase?
【在 L*******y 的大作中提到】
: 标 题: Re: 我的点数永动机
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Tue May 1 09:31:41 2012, 美东)
: 呵呵，一直很担心这自作聪明的老外，终于还是被这猪一样的队友给毁了。
: TNND，既然被曝光了，大家一起曝吧。
: 我的点数永动机：
: NETSPEND + VANILLA RELOAD NETWORK + OD
: 成本：0.798%
: 利润：10%
: 发信人: newjersey (NJ furniture dealer), 信区: EasyMoney
: 标 题: Re: 我的点数永动机
| s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 32 你的意思是ebates更有道德感点？
样.
【在 l***s 的大作中提到】
: 老中真可怜,帮老印挣了0.9M,还要进监狱.
: FW不是查不到,故意不说而已,白拿人2M,只分老中1.1M,还不用担责任.Linkshare也一样.
: 看来还是老美的ebates实在.
| s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 33 怎么才能一次交易1cent？
会被chase咔嚓的，估计你说的跟这个类似，小额交易然后整数补齐？
【在 w********r 的大作中提到】
: 不会是chase的每笔交易给10点吧，这个每次交易1cent可以拿回10cents，这个肯定会被chase咔嚓的，估计你说的跟这个类似，小额交易然后整数补齐？
:
: 3
| s********n
发帖数: 4535 | 34 amz 买gc的利润率太低了吧，了不起2%，基本是体力活，量大还容易被发现
卡业务比较小，要是大的发卡银行，早就一堆人搞死了
【在 w********r 的大作中提到】
: 估计不是这个，这个以前有人搞过的，利用amazon的买gift card，而且用script，一
: 个月搞出好上千刀，后来chase直接没兑现就给封了，她这个封一个，显然不是chase的
: 风格，而且不会是chase,amex,citi等，应该是不见经传银行的[rogram
: 据我估计citizen bank，us bank,captial one等比较烂的银行可能性大，因为信用卡业务比较小，要是大的发卡银行，早就一堆人搞死了
| y***j
发帖数: 11235 | 35 chase每笔消费10点
那就是1分钱10点了，卖的话大概值0.17刀
【在 s********n 的大作中提到】
: amz 买gc的利润率太低了吧，了不起2%，基本是体力活，量大还容易被发现
:
: 卡业务比较小，要是大的发卡银行，早就一堆人搞死了
|
|
