b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 1 大家都看过这个电影吧。tom cruise, demi moore, jack nicholson, kevin bacon. 明
星无数的。
里面一个当兵的very soft, 整天想调走。结果将军下令给他点教训，不料把这小兵整死
了。结果cover up.. 被tom cruise这个小律师挖坑告倒了。将军要进监狱。
大家觉得这general该进监狱吗？ | b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 2 我的看法是，按法律，是关起来没错，但是it hurts the defense. hurts the countr
y because tough generals are needed to have a good military (假设我是美国人)
明
整死
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 大家都看过这个电影吧。tom cruise, demi moore, jack nicholson, kevin bacon. 明
: 星无数的。
: 里面一个当兵的very soft, 整天想调走。结果将军下令给他点教训，不料把这小兵整死
: 了。结果cover up.. 被tom cruise这个小律师挖坑告倒了。将军要进监狱。
: 大家觉得这general该进监狱吗？
| U*L
发帖数: 1449 | 3
countr
人)
Here are my 2 cents:
$0.01: An issue of individual rights vs. Common good. This is a tough one
like Science/Logic vs. Religion;
$0.01: One may have sympathy for code red, but should never forgive the
cover-up. So he is definitely guilty for that. In a lot of cases, the most
punishable is not what happened, but what happened after.
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 我的看法是，按法律，是关起来没错，但是it hurts the defense. hurts the countr
: y because tough generals are needed to have a good military (假设我是美国人)
:
: 明
: 整死
| l**k
发帖数: 45267 | 4 哪是啥将军啊，是上校
明
整死
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 大家都看过这个电影吧。tom cruise, demi moore, jack nicholson, kevin bacon. 明
: 星无数的。
: 里面一个当兵的very soft, 整天想调走。结果将军下令给他点教训，不料把这小兵整死
: 了。结果cover up.. 被tom cruise这个小律师挖坑告倒了。将军要进监狱。
: 大家觉得这general该进监狱吗？
| b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 5 cover up is of course guilty. he lied. period. but my point was that, justic
e sometimes isn't doing overall good. this is easy to say when i'm not the v
ictim, just like in china, so many evil things happen but a lot of people to
lerate it - as long as it makes more people's lives better, a few "sacrifice
s" are acceptable ***AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT THE ONES MAKING THE SACRIFICE***
我认为不是什么都是不是白就是黑，很多gray area.. 难说什么最好，什么不好
【在 U*L 的大作中提到】
:
: countr
: 人)
: Here are my 2 cents:
: $0.01: An issue of individual rights vs. Common good. This is a tough one
: like Science/Logic vs. Religion;
: $0.01: One may have sympathy for code red, but should never forgive the
: cover-up. So he is definitely guilty for that. In a lot of cases, the most
: punishable is not what happened, but what happened after.
| b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 6 反正是个大官吧。呵呵。不要这么吹毛求疵好不好。注意讨论的主题
【在 l**k 的大作中提到】
: 哪是啥将军啊，是上校
:
: 明
: 整死
| l**k
发帖数: 45267 | 7 该进监狱。军队铁的纪律不光要体现在上校对待他手下的兵，也要体现在上校和他的上
级指挥官之间，瞒上欺下不叫铁的纪律
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 反正是个大官吧。呵呵。不要这么吹毛求疵好不好。注意讨论的主题
| E********t
发帖数: 4091 | 8
估计是和the general's daughter弄混了
【在 l**k 的大作中提到】
: 哪是啥将军啊，是上校
:
: 明
: 整死
| b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 9 哈，那个我也看过。john trovolta的。不过记不太清楚了。a few good men我看了好几
遍。
主要是对美国军衔不熟悉
【在 E********t 的大作中提到】
:
: 估计是和the general's daughter弄混了
| U*L
发帖数: 1449 | 10
haha, I thought Colonel is shao jiang...learn something today.
【在 l**k 的大作中提到】
: 哪是啥将军啊，是上校
:
: 明
: 整死
| | | U*L
发帖数: 1449 | 11
justic
v
to
sacrifice
**
"justice sometimes isn't doing overall good."
I don't agree. One can argue that, if truly "Justice", it is always doing
overall good. May not be in an individual case, or a certain period of time/
occasion, but always prevail "overall".
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: cover up is of course guilty. he lied. period. but my point was that, justic
: e sometimes isn't doing overall good. this is easy to say when i'm not the v
: ictim, just like in china, so many evil things happen but a lot of people to
: lerate it - as long as it makes more people's lives better, a few "sacrifice
: s" are acceptable ***AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT THE ONES MAKING THE SACRIFICE***
: 我认为不是什么都是不是白就是黑，很多gray area.. 难说什么最好，什么不好
| b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 12 那你觉得中国共产党执政是好还是不好？
time/
【在 U*L 的大作中提到】
:
: justic
: v
: to
: sacrifice
: **
: "justice sometimes isn't doing overall good."
: I don't agree. One can argue that, if truly "Justice", it is always doing
: overall good. May not be in an individual case, or a certain period of time/
: occasion, but always prevail "overall".
| w***b
发帖数: 2244 | 13 肯定啊，这有什么疑问呢？
当然你想拿这个事和psu对比不是很恰当
明
整死
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 大家都看过这个电影吧。tom cruise, demi moore, jack nicholson, kevin bacon. 明
: 星无数的。
: 里面一个当兵的very soft, 整天想调走。结果将军下令给他点教训，不料把这小兵整死
: 了。结果cover up.. 被tom cruise这个小律师挖坑告倒了。将军要进监狱。
: 大家觉得这general该进监狱吗？
| w***b
发帖数: 2244 | 14 我给个6，70分左右样子
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 那你觉得中国共产党执政是好还是不好？
:
: time/
| b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 15 我的意思是，joe pa毕竟不是sandusky. 他们cover up了，也不是说他们认同child ra
pe. 他们认定了他们的greater good, 也多少做了些限制sandusky的事情，最后他们为
他们的action (inaction)付出了代价。但是把它们描述成ultimate evil, 我觉得稍微
过分了。尤其是要把psu, psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正
【在 w***b 的大作中提到】
: 肯定啊，这有什么疑问呢？
: 当然你想拿这个事和psu对比不是很恰当
:
: 明
: 整死
| s****y
发帖数: 18685 | 16 这种定时炸弹当然应该拔掉
省得像张飞阵前被自己人割头
明
整死
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 大家都看过这个电影吧。tom cruise, demi moore, jack nicholson, kevin bacon. 明
: 星无数的。
: 里面一个当兵的very soft, 整天想调走。结果将军下令给他点教训，不料把这小兵整死
: 了。结果cover up.. 被tom cruise这个小律师挖坑告倒了。将军要进监狱。
: 大家觉得这general该进监狱吗？
| s****y
发帖数: 18685 | 17 教育系统陪葬就没道理了
体育系统陪葬是恰当的
毕竟大学是教育为主业，体育是消遣
犯了事不让消遣了，学还是要上的
ra
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 我的意思是，joe pa毕竟不是sandusky. 他们cover up了，也不是说他们认同child ra
: pe. 他们认定了他们的greater good, 也多少做了些限制sandusky的事情，最后他们为
: 他们的action (inaction)付出了代价。但是把它们描述成ultimate evil, 我觉得稍微
: 过分了。尤其是要把psu, psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正
| U*L
发帖数: 1449 | 18
This really depends on your take on CCP/Communism's future not only in China
, but to the human race.
This is no absolute/universal justice, but within its limit, there can be an
overall justice.
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 那你觉得中国共产党执政是好还是不好？
:
: time/
| w***b
发帖数: 2244 | 19 他们心里应该明白掩盖这个人的罪行，导致结果是更多的小孩受到伤害。
这些人当然应该付出代价，至少我也认为老头的雕像再继续放在那边也不合适。
我不主张对football program death penalty，毕竟学生都是无辜的。但是必要的
惩罚还是要必须的，至少警示后人以及其他学校。
ra
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 我的意思是，joe pa毕竟不是sandusky. 他们cover up了，也不是说他们认同child ra
: pe. 他们认定了他们的greater good, 也多少做了些限制sandusky的事情，最后他们为
: 他们的action (inaction)付出了代价。但是把它们描述成ultimate evil, 我觉得稍微
: 过分了。尤其是要把psu, psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正
| B*****e
发帖数: 9375 | 20 电影很适宜的就结束了,
不然给Jessup顶什么罪名还真的很难说.
Murder 1, 2, Manslaughter 1, 2, Involuntary Manslaughter 1, 2,
Negligent Homicide, 统统和他不沾边.
连伪证罪都没有, 他真正在法庭上被问有没有上"Code Red"就一次,
他也如实回答了.
估计最后也就一"obstruction of justice" ...
明
整死
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 大家都看过这个电影吧。tom cruise, demi moore, jack nicholson, kevin bacon. 明
: 星无数的。
: 里面一个当兵的very soft, 整天想调走。结果将军下令给他点教训，不料把这小兵整死
: 了。结果cover up.. 被tom cruise这个小律师挖坑告倒了。将军要进监狱。
: 大家觉得这general该进监狱吗？
| | | r***l
发帖数: 9084 | 21 我觉的psu football program必须要拉进来陪葬。
ra
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 我的意思是，joe pa毕竟不是sandusky. 他们cover up了，也不是说他们认同child ra
: pe. 他们认定了他们的greater good, 也多少做了些限制sandusky的事情，最后他们为
: 他们的action (inaction)付出了代价。但是把它们描述成ultimate evil, 我觉得稍微
: 过分了。尤其是要把psu, psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正
| B*****e
发帖数: 9375 | 22 Sandusky能够娈童十几年,
是因为在PSUFP地盘上行使PSUFP给他的特权;
主教练, AD, 校长副校长给他包庇了十几年的手段,
是在PSUFP地盘上行使PSUFP给他们的特权;
主教练, AD, 校长副校长给他包庇了十几年的原因,
是他们想使得PSUFP在安静中继续受益, 而PSUFP确实大大的受益了:
十几年来继续赢球, 赚钱, 万众狂欢, happy valley indeed.
但是, 等到现在东窗事发了, 就撇得一干二净,
"要把psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正".
这只赚不赔的, 对PSUFP来说是多美好的一笔交易啊, ... 上哪儿找!
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 我的意思是，joe pa毕竟不是sandusky. 他们cover up了，也不是说他们认同child ra
: pe. 他们认定了他们的greater good, 也多少做了些限制sandusky的事情，最后他们为
: 他们的action (inaction)付出了代价。但是把它们描述成ultimate evil, 我觉得稍微
: 过分了。尤其是要把psu, psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正
| r***l
发帖数: 9084 | 23 支持
把整个psu拉进来陪葬的确矫枉过正，但psu football program必须关门几年，太过分
了。
【在 B*****e 的大作中提到】
: Sandusky能够娈童十几年,
: 是因为在PSUFP地盘上行使PSUFP给他的特权;
: 主教练, AD, 校长副校长给他包庇了十几年的手段,
: 是在PSUFP地盘上行使PSUFP给他们的特权;
: 主教练, AD, 校长副校长给他包庇了十几年的原因,
: 是他们想使得PSUFP在安静中继续受益, 而PSUFP确实大大的受益了:
: 十几年来继续赢球, 赚钱, 万众狂欢, happy valley indeed.
: 但是, 等到现在东窗事发了, 就撇得一干二净,
: "要把psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正".
: 这只赚不赔的, 对PSUFP来说是多美好的一笔交易啊, ... 上哪儿找!
| D***h
发帖数: 148 | 24 You are asking do ends justify the means. The answer is they do not.This is
not a good defense on any front for JoePa.
ra
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 我的意思是，joe pa毕竟不是sandusky. 他们cover up了，也不是说他们认同child ra
: pe. 他们认定了他们的greater good, 也多少做了些限制sandusky的事情，最后他们为
: 他们的action (inaction)付出了代价。但是把它们描述成ultimate evil, 我觉得稍微
: 过分了。尤其是要把psu, psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正
| b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 25 does ends justify the means? i don't know. do you like jack
bauer in 24? i do. do you think racial profiling is ok?
当然，反过来，也可以说，end of child molestation in PA through
the means of killing psu/psu fb, does it justify the means? maybe
it does. i don't agree but some probably do
is
【在 D***h 的大作中提到】
: You are asking do ends justify the means. The answer is they do not.This is
: not a good defense on any front for JoePa.
:
: ra
| o2
发帖数: 2764 | 26 支持
【在 B*****e 的大作中提到】
: Sandusky能够娈童十几年,
: 是因为在PSUFP地盘上行使PSUFP给他的特权;
: 主教练, AD, 校长副校长给他包庇了十几年的手段,
: 是在PSUFP地盘上行使PSUFP给他们的特权;
: 主教练, AD, 校长副校长给他包庇了十几年的原因,
: 是他们想使得PSUFP在安静中继续受益, 而PSUFP确实大大的受益了:
: 十几年来继续赢球, 赚钱, 万众狂欢, happy valley indeed.
: 但是, 等到现在东窗事发了, 就撇得一干二净,
: "要把psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正".
: 这只赚不赔的, 对PSUFP来说是多美好的一笔交易啊, ... 上哪儿找!
| D***h
发帖数: 148 | 27 The question is only raised when the means cross the line. punishment in the
penn st case would be warranted by law. administrations are entitled to
impose penalty, too. ends/means conundrum does not apply here.
For your original case scenario or the Jack Bauer analogy, things are a bit
different. Antihero tones are easy on the ear, interrogation is bad, but
what if it saves life? defiant medical decisions are bad, but what if they
save lives? They are wrong, end of discussion. If JoePa did fabricate the
coverup to reach "greater good", it would be way worse than code red, or
interrogation and whatnot. Not to mention, there is no greater good, no
lawyer could establish that in front of a jury.
I sympathize with JoePa, and reading the ostentatiously malevolent
accusations is repugnant. But that's based on two assumptions, he did not
actively conceal the complaints, and inaction is excusable.
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: does ends justify the means? i don't know. do you like jack
: bauer in 24? i do. do you think racial profiling is ok?
: 当然，反过来，也可以说，end of child molestation in PA through
: the means of killing psu/psu fb, does it justify the means? maybe
: it does. i don't agree but some probably do
:
: is
| b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 28 it's always easier for bystanders to look at it after the fact. put them in
the heat of the moment with the pressure, i can understand one gotta do what
one gotta do. i am not going to say this is definitely wrong or this is def
initely right. it depends.
what does it depend on? it depends on the outcome (wow terrorist talked, he
told us there are 5 bad guys on this plane - then people say jack bauer is r
ight. he's a hero.. what if the terrorist is not talking, or not even a terr
orist.. then jack bauer should get the NCAA death penalty)
我的理念是，世上有很多无解的东西，无所谓对错。希望不要发生在自己身上就好。别
的咱管不了
the
bit
【在 D***h 的大作中提到】
: The question is only raised when the means cross the line. punishment in the
: penn st case would be warranted by law. administrations are entitled to
: impose penalty, too. ends/means conundrum does not apply here.
: For your original case scenario or the Jack Bauer analogy, things are a bit
: different. Antihero tones are easy on the ear, interrogation is bad, but
: what if it saves life? defiant medical decisions are bad, but what if they
: save lives? They are wrong, end of discussion. If JoePa did fabricate the
: coverup to reach "greater good", it would be way worse than code red, or
: interrogation and whatnot. Not to mention, there is no greater good, no
: lawyer could establish that in front of a jury.
| D***h
发帖数: 148 | 29 Fine. don't use the word 'right' or 'wrong'. You gotta do what you gotta do,
that does not relieve the responsibility. Jack 'sacrifices' other people's
rights or the protocol to get his way. it might be heroic, saving the day,
or it might be all for naught. But ultimately he should still be held
responsible, it's now his turn to make the 'sacrifice', which would include
being judged and persecuted. What each individual would think of him is
irrelevant.
in
what
def
he
r
terr
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: it's always easier for bystanders to look at it after the fact. put them in
: the heat of the moment with the pressure, i can understand one gotta do what
: one gotta do. i am not going to say this is definitely wrong or this is def
: initely right. it depends.
: what does it depend on? it depends on the outcome (wow terrorist talked, he
: told us there are 5 bad guys on this plane - then people say jack bauer is r
: ight. he's a hero.. what if the terrorist is not talking, or not even a terr
: orist.. then jack bauer should get the NCAA death penalty)
: 我的理念是，世上有很多无解的东西，无所谓对错。希望不要发生在自己身上就好。别
: 的咱管不了
| b**j
发帖数: 20742 | 30 it doesn't spare the PSU officials/JP. it's their call, and they have to fac
e the consequences. i'm just saying i can understand why they did what they
did... it doesn't mean they are all evil.
also, spare the innocents. like obrien. let him do his job and bring peace o
f mind back to psu
do,
s
include
【在 D***h 的大作中提到】
: Fine. don't use the word 'right' or 'wrong'. You gotta do what you gotta do,
: that does not relieve the responsibility. Jack 'sacrifices' other people's
: rights or the protocol to get his way. it might be heroic, saving the day,
: or it might be all for naught. But ultimately he should still be held
: responsible, it's now his turn to make the 'sacrifice', which would include
: being judged and persecuted. What each individual would think of him is
: irrelevant.
:
: in
: what
| | | b*********n
发帖数: 1938 | 31 简单说，这就是个moment of the truth. 灰跟白比确实不好，但是还是比黑好多了，
现在就是顺着舆论批灰。
主要这个事也确实很萎缩了，所有当时没站出来表态的都算是灰偏黑。
justic
v
to
sacrifice
**
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: cover up is of course guilty. he lied. period. but my point was that, justic
: e sometimes isn't doing overall good. this is easy to say when i'm not the v
: ictim, just like in china, so many evil things happen but a lot of people to
: lerate it - as long as it makes more people's lives better, a few "sacrifice
: s" are acceptable ***AS LONG AS THEY'RE NOT THE ONES MAKING THE SACRIFICE***
: 我认为不是什么都是不是白就是黑，很多gray area.. 难说什么最好，什么不好
| j***4
发帖数: 3119 | 32 前两年在阿富汗给战友鄙视虐待最后自杀两个华裔海军陆战队员的事还有人记得吗。从
那会起就憎恨起code red了。gray area没错，也要看人看事。
countr
人)
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 我的看法是，按法律，是关起来没错，但是it hurts the defense. hurts the countr
: y because tough generals are needed to have a good military (假设我是美国人)
:
: 明
: 整死
| p******o
发帖数: 2682 | 33 这些观点其实大家都清楚。只不过现在很多叫的厉害的就是HATE，然后有一种嗜血的暴
徒情绪，其实挺可怕的。
ra
【在 b**j 的大作中提到】
: 我的意思是，joe pa毕竟不是sandusky. 他们cover up了，也不是说他们认同child ra
: pe. 他们认定了他们的greater good, 也多少做了些限制sandusky的事情，最后他们为
: 他们的action (inaction)付出了代价。但是把它们描述成ultimate evil, 我觉得稍微
: 过分了。尤其是要把psu, psu football program拉进来陪葬，我认为是矫枉过正
| p******o
发帖数: 2682 | 34 你这个观点不敢苟同，让PSU继续打FOOTBALL，然后赚的钱都给CHILD WELFARE岂不更好。
你彻底关了PSU，除了伤害了很多人，又得到了什么呢？警示吗？
【在 r***l 的大作中提到】
: 支持
: 把整个psu拉进来陪葬的确矫枉过正，但psu football program必须关门几年，太过分
: 了。
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