g********n
发帖数: 4054 | 1 据说是目前经济状况下的策略，－－＞砍掉前期开发．连ＶＣ都撤出前期．所以
discovery药要等经济好了？
大家如何看啊？ |
r***o
发帖数: 162 | 2 VC left drug discovery because of uncertainty of realizing returns under
current environment. Large pharma left drug discovery? You must be kidding.
Backup what you say with facts.
【在 g********n 的大作中提到】
: 据说是目前经济状况下的策略，－－＞砍掉前期开发．连ＶＣ都撤出前期．所以
: discovery药要等经济好了？
: 大家如何看啊？
|
s*******n
发帖数: 649 | 3 this begins before crisis.
【在 g********n 的大作中提到】
: 据说是目前经济状况下的策略，－－＞砍掉前期开发．连ＶＣ都撤出前期．所以
: discovery药要等经济好了？
: 大家如何看啊？
|
f***r
发帖数: 19 | |
g********n
发帖数: 4054 | 5 Cash rich large pharma are now purchasing biotechs just to get their
products. They slashed and outsourced their research section as the fad.
.
【在 r***o 的大作中提到】
: VC left drug discovery because of uncertainty of realizing returns under
: current environment. Large pharma left drug discovery? You must be kidding.
: Backup what you say with facts.
|
w******y
发帖数: 8040 | 6 看怎么定义cut了
大药厂爱用手中的cash去买现成货也是众所周知了
.
【在 r***o 的大作中提到】
: VC left drug discovery because of uncertainty of realizing returns under
: current environment. Large pharma left drug discovery? You must be kidding.
: Backup what you say with facts.
|
f******s
发帖数: 288 | 7 好像据说是有这个趋势，把research 那部分给小公司去做，然后 licensing，
或者变partner。
我是听别人说的，说会变成 大学－》小biotech －》pharma 模式，
后期的development 还是大药厂占优势，毕竟越往后的clinical trial，还有市场之类
的，
小公司不好做。 大药厂会盯上那些尤其已经过了phase1 的药，然后拿过来做。
【在 g********n 的大作中提到】
: 据说是目前经济状况下的策略，－－＞砍掉前期开发．连ＶＣ都撤出前期．所以
: discovery药要等经济好了？
: 大家如何看啊？
|
s*****l
发帖数: 1844 | 8 He is not kidding. You are insensitive to the change happening years ago.
P&G announced that they would only licence drugs instead of doing drug
discovery itself. It is well known that many big pharmas' discovery group
has not come out with good compounds in 8-12 years, despite burning millions
of dollars.
Big pharma will focus more on development and commercialization, and reply
more on licensing and co-develop compounds from small companies. The
discovery capability of small companies is m
【在 r***o 的大作中提到】
: VC left drug discovery because of uncertainty of realizing returns under
: current environment. Large pharma left drug discovery? You must be kidding.
: Backup what you say with facts.
|
A*****s
发帖数: 813 | 9 drug discovery将来是中国和印度的活计了
在美国做成本太高,效率太低
【在 g********n 的大作中提到】
: 据说是目前经济状况下的策略，－－＞砍掉前期开发．连ＶＣ都撤出前期．所以
: discovery药要等经济好了？
: 大家如何看啊？
|
R*j
发帖数: 248 | 10 不会完全砍掉。
大药厂缩减前期开发的投资有很多原因：药物开发中的low hanging fruit都被摘了，
剩下的都是难啃的骨头，要再出现一些blockbuster，似乎只能等待一些意外的发现。
专利过期是很多药厂的大麻烦，一旦没有了大量的cash flow,自然也就没有心思很能力
把钱放在开发上了，要想尽办法先让股东赚到钱是第一考虑。
【在 g********n 的大作中提到】
: 据说是目前经济状况下的策略，－－＞砍掉前期开发．连ＶＣ都撤出前期．所以
: discovery药要等经济好了？
: 大家如何看啊？
|
|
|
r***o
发帖数: 162 | 11 P&G has never been a big pharma, or regarded as one.
For companies with no discovery capacity, TAP was more successful than
anybody else in the history. Look at TAP now.
Besides the weak example of P&G, all you gave below were statements, not
facts.
Gary Pisano recent demonostrated with facts an counter-argument to what you
claimed below. Check out his work when you have time.
Let me tell you (not discuss with you):
a pharmaceutical company without its own drug discovery capacity is a dead
phar
【在 s*****l 的大作中提到】
: He is not kidding. You are insensitive to the change happening years ago.
: P&G announced that they would only licence drugs instead of doing drug
: discovery itself. It is well known that many big pharmas' discovery group
: has not come out with good compounds in 8-12 years, despite burning millions
: of dollars.
: Big pharma will focus more on development and commercialization, and reply
: more on licensing and co-develop compounds from small companies. The
: discovery capability of small companies is m
|
m******s
发帖数: 8493 | 12 是这个模式。。
【在 f******s 的大作中提到】
: 好像据说是有这个趋势，把research 那部分给小公司去做，然后 licensing，
: 或者变partner。
: 我是听别人说的，说会变成 大学－》小biotech －》pharma 模式，
: 后期的development 还是大药厂占优势，毕竟越往后的clinical trial，还有市场之类
: 的，
: 小公司不好做。 大药厂会盯上那些尤其已经过了phase1 的药，然后拿过来做。
|
s*****l
发帖数: 1844 | 13 Hoho, whether big pharma will get rid of most discovery is not determined by
you, or me. It is determined by wall st. Big shareholders can not bear big
pharma burn $ like crazy but come out almost nothing.
I just gave P&G as an example. No fact? Roche and Pfizer, their main site
come out with almost nothing for 8-10 years. Similar case for other big
pharma. How proud was Merck before? They would not even consider buying
drug from other companies, now what are they doing?
I am not saying that b
【在 r***o 的大作中提到】
: P&G has never been a big pharma, or regarded as one.
: For companies with no discovery capacity, TAP was more successful than
: anybody else in the history. Look at TAP now.
: Besides the weak example of P&G, all you gave below were statements, not
: facts.
: Gary Pisano recent demonostrated with facts an counter-argument to what you
: claimed below. Check out his work when you have time.
: Let me tell you (not discuss with you):
: a pharmaceutical company without its own drug discovery capacity is a dead
: phar
|
E****e
发帖数: 315 | |
E****e
发帖数: 315 | 15 觉得以后的趋势是协作整合
找某方面做的最成功的CRO完成大项目中的其中一环,自己做clinical trial和
manufacturing |
r***o
发帖数: 162 | 16 You were losing the focus of the argument:
I did not argue with you whether big pharma has problem with their R&D. Even
a plumber in the pharma will tell you about the company's inefficient R&D
engine. I am telling you that cutting their own discovery is a suitcide for
that company. And the biotech industry is no more efficent than pharma, in
terms of the R&D.
I repeated many times before: Pharma industry a dying industry.
If everybody in the pharma has the same mentality as yours(assume that y |
l*u
发帖数: 2090 | 17 Manufacturing自然也要外包到CMO去
【在 E****e 的大作中提到】
: 觉得以后的趋势是协作整合
: 找某方面做的最成功的CRO完成大项目中的其中一环,自己做clinical trial和
: manufacturing
|
N***n
发帖数: 660 | 18 一帮bschool的人2007年给wall st.写了个报告，里面说得很清楚，你们都应该去看看。
BTW:董事会，CEO这个层面的人是不关心science的，也不懂science。他们期待着花了
钱就要立刻得到些东西。一个只花钱什么都不出的部门在balance sheet上就是个
negtive,不论在CEO CFO还是审计会计的眼里都是应该立即关掉的部门。现在只裁20%已
经很给大家面子了。
Even
for
sure
【在 r***o 的大作中提到】
: You were losing the focus of the argument:
: I did not argue with you whether big pharma has problem with their R&D. Even
: a plumber in the pharma will tell you about the company's inefficient R&D
: engine. I am telling you that cutting their own discovery is a suitcide for
: that company. And the biotech industry is no more efficent than pharma, in
: terms of the R&D.
: I repeated many times before: Pharma industry a dying industry.
: If everybody in the pharma has the same mentality as yours(assume that y
|
r***o
发帖数: 162 | 19 many CEOs, such as JP Garnier and Arthur Levinson, appreciate science no
less than many scientists.
看。
【在 N***n 的大作中提到】
: 一帮bschool的人2007年给wall st.写了个报告，里面说得很清楚，你们都应该去看看。
: BTW:董事会，CEO这个层面的人是不关心science的，也不懂science。他们期待着花了
: 钱就要立刻得到些东西。一个只花钱什么都不出的部门在balance sheet上就是个
: negtive,不论在CEO CFO还是审计会计的眼里都是应该立即关掉的部门。现在只裁20%已
: 经很给大家面子了。
:
: Even
: for
: sure
|
l*********1
发帖数: 351 | 20 大药厂不是玩资本运作的大拿,买买现成的就成了? |
|
|
a*c
发帖数: 701 | 21 这些药厂也不做拉， 有广大的CRO代劳。 merk, lilly不都把个别facility卖给CRO.我
是觉得，大药厂以后基本就不做deve,有一些可能连research都少做或不做了
【在 f******s 的大作中提到】
: 好像据说是有这个趋势，把research 那部分给小公司去做，然后 licensing，
: 或者变partner。
: 我是听别人说的，说会变成 大学－》小biotech －》pharma 模式，
: 后期的development 还是大药厂占优势，毕竟越往后的clinical trial，还有市场之类
: 的，
: 小公司不好做。 大药厂会盯上那些尤其已经过了phase1 的药，然后拿过来做。
|
s*****l
发帖数: 1844 | 22 There are some CEOs that emphasize science, however, many do not!! And this
is the trend.
Also if big pharmas outsource much R&D work, how come they do not cut their
own R&D expense?!
Good luck in Wall St. You will understand better then. All companies are
only tools for them, tools for them to make money. Wall St. do not like big
pharma to spend like crazy but get nothing, and this drives the separation
of discovery and late phase development/commercialization. This is the fact.
I have no ch
【在 r***o 的大作中提到】
: many CEOs, such as JP Garnier and Arthur Levinson, appreciate science no
: less than many scientists.
:
: 看。
|
s*****l
发帖数: 1844 | 23
Even
for
Many big pharma are doing this, cutting their own R&D. Why this is a
suicide?
Biotech is more efficent than big pharma in R&D, if counting good lead
compounds discovered.
"And the biotech industry is no more efficent than pharma, in terms of the R
&D" Are you serious? how do you measure R&D? Do not tell me you measure that
by publications...
【在 r***o 的大作中提到】
: You were losing the focus of the argument:
: I did not argue with you whether big pharma has problem with their R&D. Even
: a plumber in the pharma will tell you about the company's inefficient R&D
: engine. I am telling you that cutting their own discovery is a suitcide for
: that company. And the biotech industry is no more efficent than pharma, in
: terms of the R&D.
: I repeated many times before: Pharma industry a dying industry.
: If everybody in the pharma has the same mentality as yours(assume that y
|
s*****l
发帖数: 1844 | 24 Completely agreewith NYwsn !!!
看。
【在 N***n 的大作中提到】
: 一帮bschool的人2007年给wall st.写了个报告，里面说得很清楚，你们都应该去看看。
: BTW:董事会，CEO这个层面的人是不关心science的，也不懂science。他们期待着花了
: 钱就要立刻得到些东西。一个只花钱什么都不出的部门在balance sheet上就是个
: negtive,不论在CEO CFO还是审计会计的眼里都是应该立即关掉的部门。现在只裁20%已
: 经很给大家面子了。
:
: Even
: for
: sure
|
r***o
发帖数: 162 | 25 I based my argument on the research results produced by Gary Pisano.
Talking is cheap. Show the data!!!
R
that
【在 s*****l 的大作中提到】
: Completely agreewith NYwsn !!!
:
: 看。
|
r***o
发帖数: 162 | 26 Sure, you have your rights to have your own opinion.
this
their
big
separation
fact.
【在 s*****l 的大作中提到】
: There are some CEOs that emphasize science, however, many do not!! And this
: is the trend.
: Also if big pharmas outsource much R&D work, how come they do not cut their
: own R&D expense?!
: Good luck in Wall St. You will understand better then. All companies are
: only tools for them, tools for them to make money. Wall St. do not like big
: pharma to spend like crazy but get nothing, and this drives the separation
: of discovery and late phase development/commercialization. This is the fact.
: I have no ch
|
