t*********e
发帖数: 1136 | 1 专家们说说，是不是常用的 JVM 都是各个公司，如Oracle/Sun开发的Proprietary的产
品？是不是没有Open Source GPL或LGPL的？ | g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 2 Harmony is open source with Apache license. However, since Sun/Oracle doesn't want to open
source TCK (Technology Compatibility Kit). Harmony may have legal issue. And
that's one of the reasons Oracle sued Google on Anroid (Android runs
Harmony JDK) | T*o
发帖数: 363 | 3 OpenJDK?
【在 t*********e 的大作中提到】
: 专家们说说，是不是常用的 JVM 都是各个公司，如Oracle/Sun开发的Proprietary的产
: 品？是不是没有Open Source GPL或LGPL的？
| t*********e
发帖数: 1136 | 4 If everyone uses Sun/Oracle JVM, how can it be fast? Why Oracle wants to
improve the JVM when it is free? There is no competition. There is no need.
Nobody else can improve the JVM either if it is proprietary. | D*******a
发帖数: 3688 | 5 oracle itself uses java heavily.
.
【在 t*********e 的大作中提到】
: If everyone uses Sun/Oracle JVM, how can it be fast? Why Oracle wants to
: improve the JVM when it is free? There is no competition. There is no need.
: Nobody else can improve the JVM either if it is proprietary.
| t*********e
发帖数: 1136 | 6 Sure. Oracle uses Java itself. But it has no incentive to release the
optimized JVM to the public. In fact it may release an inferior version and
charge more for the "premium" version. Larry Ellison is not famous for
supporting public domain software.
Java is the only popular programming language without a public license. All
other languages: C, C++, JavaScript, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc., are public
domain languages. Anyone can write a compiler/interpreter for them.
Of course C# is Microsoft. But it is not as popular as others.
This is very odd to me. Why Google builds Android on Java? Oracle may pull
the carpet from Android's feet. It doesn't matter how good Java is.
【在 D*******a 的大作中提到】
: oracle itself uses java heavily.
:
: .
| t****t
发帖数: 6806 | 7 我不是很清楚java, 但是我记得sun把java release with GPL了. is it not?
and
All
【在 t*********e 的大作中提到】
: Sure. Oracle uses Java itself. But it has no incentive to release the
: optimized JVM to the public. In fact it may release an inferior version and
: charge more for the "premium" version. Larry Ellison is not famous for
: supporting public domain software.
: Java is the only popular programming language without a public license. All
: other languages: C, C++, JavaScript, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc., are public
: domain languages. Anyone can write a compiler/interpreter for them.
: Of course C# is Microsoft. But it is not as popular as others.
: This is very odd to me. Why Google builds Android on Java? Oracle may pull
: the carpet from Android's feet. It doesn't matter how good Java is.
| g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 8 Sun's Java is under GPL and its se library is more like LGPL.
However, it's not as open as the community want it to be.
Sun/Oracle controls JCK compatibility test suite.
Basical if you want to say this is a compatible JVM,
you need license from Oracle. But Oracle isn't going to
give you a license without restriction. So you can't create
a compatible JVM to compete without their nod. Or their lawyer
will hunt you down, like Oracle suing Google right now.
【在 t****t 的大作中提到】
: 我不是很清楚java, 但是我记得sun把java release with GPL了. is it not?
:
: and
: All
| d****p
发帖数: 685 | 9
and
All
That's true. Oracle's biggest rival SAP has its own JVM. After Oracle's
purchase of Sun, SAP is increasingly worried about Oracle's control on Java
(as well as other stuff like MySQL).
I think C# is gaining momentum quickly. But so far what happening is VB is
equally fast losing share. Not sure how thing will go.
【在 t*********e 的大作中提到】
: Sure. Oracle uses Java itself. But it has no incentive to release the
: optimized JVM to the public. In fact it may release an inferior version and
: charge more for the "premium" version. Larry Ellison is not famous for
: supporting public domain software.
: Java is the only popular programming language without a public license. All
: other languages: C, C++, JavaScript, Perl, Python, Ruby, etc., are public
: domain languages. Anyone can write a compiler/interpreter for them.
: Of course C# is Microsoft. But it is not as popular as others.
: This is very odd to me. Why Google builds Android on Java? Oracle may pull
: the carpet from Android's feet. It doesn't matter how good Java is.
| g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 10 People from *nix camp isn't going to move to windows, vice versa.
C# is replacing VB quickly, and rightfully so. Technology wise, C#.net
and JEE have similar stack. .Net probably gives you more integral experience,
and you count on MS to do the right thing. Java on the other hand, is
open and all about choices, and more choices are good and bad in different
context. Neither has the killer feature to tip the balance. I think it's
gonna
stay that way for the next 5 years, while new languages like Ruby and Scala
take some ground here and there.
Java
【在 d****p 的大作中提到】
:
: and
: All
: That's true. Oracle's biggest rival SAP has its own JVM. After Oracle's
: purchase of Sun, SAP is increasingly worried about Oracle's control on Java
: (as well as other stuff like MySQL).
: I think C# is gaining momentum quickly. But so far what happening is VB is
: equally fast losing share. Not sure how thing will go.
| t*********e
发帖数: 1136 | 11 Thanks for the information. Scala is based on Java bytecode. So there will
be license issue as well, I guess. Ruby is a scripting language, not in the
same category as Java.
SAP can afford to have its own JVM. But it is unlikely they will release it
to public domain. IBM abandoned Apache Harmony, perhaps due to pressure from
Oracle. So it seems to me that the entire Java ecosystem is based mainly on
just one JVM controlled by Oracle. This is scary.
How can the *nix world that values freedom put up with such a monster?
experience,
Scala
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: People from *nix camp isn't going to move to windows, vice versa.
: C# is replacing VB quickly, and rightfully so. Technology wise, C#.net
: and JEE have similar stack. .Net probably gives you more integral experience,
: and you count on MS to do the right thing. Java on the other hand, is
: open and all about choices, and more choices are good and bad in different
: context. Neither has the killer feature to tip the balance. I think it's
: gonna
: stay that way for the next 5 years, while new languages like Ruby and Scala
: take some ground here and there.
:
| g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 12 on
True, almost every production deployment uses Sun's JVM. You just can't say
your JVM is java compatible unless Oracle licenses that. That being said,
the major advancements in Java world are from open source community, like
spring and hibernate that lead to EJB3. The JDK is governed by JCP and
Oracle
cannot decide where Java should go by itself. If Oracle refuses to
collaborate
and manages a way to charge on every deployment like Oracle DB.
Harmony can call it J## or whatever and becomes the de facto JVM. It's the
best interest of Oracle to keep java the way it is, it doesn't really have
much
leeway. |
|
