b*****9
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Glave (倚天屠龙) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:23:38 2011, 美东) 提到:
我朋友海归，归前和归后都私下里和我诉苦，归前抱怨待遇不是很好好，连回国的机票
都不给报销；归后感觉自己日子过的比较难，自己是副教授，老婆学校不给安排工作，
孩子送乡下父母照顾，工资低，租房住。。。
但这些不妨碍他在所归的高校校报上撰文，什么建设祖国拉，回母校工作是多年的梦想
拉，blah blah，长篇大论，义正言辞。。。
回国后，学校里从教研室主任、系主任、院长、人事处长、主管副校长，都亲切接见了
我朋友以及当年度一起回国的一批小海归，鼓励他们爱校、爱党、爱国，为祖国建设添
砖加瓦。。。因为这个学校也是自己的母校，对那些人还是比较熟的，知道这些人，如
果年纪大点的，孩子都在国外读书或工作，年纪轻的，也都在打听将来孩子留学的途径
。。。
感觉上上下下，都在演戏啊。。。
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StevenLow (CrossLayer) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:26:25 2011, 美东) 提到:
留学对于学生当然好
但是留完学 去哪发展就是另外一回事了
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drei (drei) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:30:28 2011, 美东) 提到:
海归前就知道待遇不好，那还归？如果是被归的，那也没啥可报怨，没有option的时候
只好既来之则安之。
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Glave (倚天屠龙) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:32:23 2011, 美东) 提到:
算被归的，土博，千老，专业又不好。。。
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Glave (倚天屠龙) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:33:18 2011, 美东) 提到:
其中有几个，自己的子女是在国外工作的。。。
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StevenLow (CrossLayer) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:34:22 2011, 美东) 提到:
那没啥好说的。
没选择就只能怪自己了。
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Glave (倚天屠龙) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:35:05 2011, 美东) 提到:
安之是对的，但也别实际过的不爽，嘴里却说，啊，终于回到了母校的怀抱。。。
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drei (drei) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:36:00 2011, 美东) 提到:
是啊，这样的回去能一飞冲天才怪了。这样的要在这里要混个工作也不容易，除非转行
可能还好点。
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drei (drei) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:38:56 2011, 美东) 提到:
报纸上撰文当然这么说了，私下人家不是跟你说实话了么。官面话在美国也一样这样讲
，比如你在某公司里混的不爽，你去面试别人的时候会跟别人说我们这个公司特变态特
压榨员工么，这叫不够professional，一样也是很忌讳的。
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shhyin (pat) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:45:02 2011, 美东) 提到:
集体性精神分裂症。各种各样的弄虚作假层出不穷
指望一大批被归的传播求真精神是不可能的，为了生存，他们和体制内的人狼狈为奸，
投机取巧，泯灭良知上更是有过之而无不及。
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pitts (小马) 于 (Sun Oct 16 00:54:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
一个人对一个单位啥贡献都还没有，就要求要过得很爽，这合理么？那些校长院长们也
是熬了多少年，踩着多少人上去的，你必须要经过这个过程，体现出你的能力，才能谈
那些回报。现在校长院长们基本也都是早期海归吧。
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zzyzzy (Zhang) 于 (Sun Oct 16 01:10:51 2011, 美东) 提到:
这是精神层面的爽，给你那是物质层面的不爽
TG的精神就是如此，住在茅坑里面仍满面幸福
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zhaoyun (好德如好色) 于 (Sun Oct 16 04:42:41 2011, 美东) 提到:
讲话都要准备两套词，精神生活真丰富！
你们这些海不归真不懂情调。。。
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Diaz (Diaz) 于 (Sun Oct 16 06:31:54 2011, 美东) 提到:
心情郁闷时，找个女研究生打一炮就好了。
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blueskychina (88888) 于 (Sun Oct 16 09:56:31 2011, 美东) 提到:
这是完全没有办法的事情，人格分裂症，两重性人格在这个党国不分的国家，在官场就
是这样的状态。当面是人，背后是鬼，白天是人，晚上是鬼，是在这个国家要好好鬼混
的必须条件。
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oldguy (老人) 于 (Sun Oct 16 10:00:25 2011, 美东) 提到:
所以说，人是区别的。
如果你能说会道，搞研究不是长处。
可能回去更如鱼得水啊。
留在美国的，基本就得靠本事了。
能说会道的，英语说得也利索啊。
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ModelWife4 (乳酱戏海鳖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 10:38:00 2011, 美东) 提到:
海龟是王道，阎王的王，说的就是这个道理。。。
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ModelWife4 (乳酱戏海鳖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 10:38:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
好一个捐精妙计。。。
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ericz (eric) 于 (Sun Oct 16 11:20:28 2011, 美东) 提到:
板上很多人不知道是愚昧还是别有用心
总把人家狡兔三窟分散投资的把子女送到国外，理解为人家觉得中国要崩溃。
望好处想就是从来没有发过才，不知道有钱之后怎么管理，然后对有钱人的行为妄自揣度
望坏处想就是混淆视听舞蹈他人
我老认识的比较有钱的投资美国，为了孩子上学啥的，美国只是一个保险加上投资目的
国，还都把中国当作主场，没有人说要退出什么的。偶尔当着准海归说说中国不好啥的
，也都是照顾别人的面子。
我老认识的一个大医院科主任，40多岁，北京上海房产无数，最近准备砸几套房子给小
孩砸进美国名校。这个牛人可是丝毫木有要离开中国的意思。而且他情商智商都超高，
北京市卫生局，卫生部等部门的关系是，用他自己的话说，硬度远远超越他们院长。
赫赫。
在美国忽悠半辈子的铜陵人，能交得起名校几年学费就8错了。
赫赫
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ModelWife4 (乳酱戏海鳖) 于 (Sun Oct 16 11:23:52 2011, 美东) 提到:
你就一后清国劣等路色，吹吧。。。
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flemns (flemns) 于 (Sun Oct 16 11:39:14 2011, 美东) 提到:
sigh
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leondean (leon) 于 (Sun Oct 16 12:04:59 2011, 美东) 提到:
说的真好笑，美国衰败没落经济低迷，还要到美国来“狡兔三窟分散投资”干嘛？保什
么险？投什么资？中国不就是最好的地方吗？
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Rosamond (Rosamond) 于 (Sun Oct 16 12:13:55 2011, 美东) 提到:
你怎么知道你朋友不是真心想“建设祖国”“回母校”？说不定人家正是执着这个理想
才能忍受较低的待遇呢。理想和待遇是两码事啊。
再说，出国读书或工作的也可以建设祖国啊。国外的学习工作经验将来带回国都可以派
上用场的。就算不回国，海内海外里应外合，也有利于祖国发展建设嘛——看看米犹就
知道了。
现在时代已经变了，楼主，出国回国都相对容易很多。出国和建设祖国不矛盾。不像过
去，出国就跟背井离乡零落天涯似的，跟国内的联络也有限，报国有心无力。
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simplesoul (路人) 于 (Sun Oct 16 13:11:19 2011, 美东) 提到:
这B装的，啥叫“北京上海房产无数”，
觉得美国不好赶紧买机票回去，没人求你呆在这。
但你吃别人的还砸人的锅就不对了
别张嘴就说四大牛人，就说说你自己在国内过啥样，怎么个温拿法吧
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akayak (zhangsuanity) 于 (Sun Oct 16 13:23:39 2011, 美东) 提到:
这伙计早就被归了。
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ericz (eric) 于 (Sun Oct 16 13:28:07 2011, 美东) 提到:
我早就海归了。我自己咋样跟你有神马关系？你管的着么？
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johninfl (johninfl) 于 (Sun Oct 16 13:38:26 2011, 美东) 提到:
没错。
虽然海归后收入不高，但比起民工打工妹来说还是很受尊重的，可以抬起头来走路。
什么叫幸福什么叫成功？幸福，成功就是你比身边人过得好！
至于场面上的假话，那是每个人想往上爬必须说的话，你要说了假话还有希望升上去，
你要只说真话，就一辈子拿2000块钱死工资吧。
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johninfl (johninfl) 于 (Sun Oct 16 13:40:21 2011, 美东) 提到:
这就像教授以为自己比校长关系硬。校长以为自己关系比省长硬一样傻。
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choi (choi) 于 (Sun Oct 16 13:43:43 2011, 美东) 提到:
Well, YOU are observant and speak the truth (at least here).
Somehow I did not understand what your original posting wanted to convey. I
did not even know whether you were the protagonist; basically I did not
understand it. After reading the series up to this point, I came to
comprehend it: your title ("讲真话很难？") and the last sentence ("感觉上上
下下，都在演戏啊。。。") are 畫龍點睛.
I had no working experience in Taiwan. So I really have no say about working
environment there. (My parents were pathological liars; I do not believe
anything they said.)
(1) Never having to China, I do not follow you in these points.
You write, "回国后，学校里从教研室主任、系主任、院长、人事处长、主管副校长，
都亲切接见了
教研室主任?
"接见"? The term reserved for a high-ranking person to a low-ranking person
! It is not like in US, where you swing to, or drop by, to have a chat? Or
bumping in the corridor? Or straight to a cubicle, instaed of an executive
suite?
(2) One thing I learn from Americans, soon after coming to US, is to be true
to oneself--another is honesty, integrity--which is what I have been doing.
"Your time is limited, so don't waste it living someone else's life. * * *
And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition.
They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is
secondary."
Steve Jobs, Commencement Address at Stanford University. June 12, 2005.
http://news.stanford.edu/news/2005/june15/jobs-061505.html
(2) One of the (two) postdoctoral stints I did was at Massachusetts General
Hospital (for six months only)--in 1991. Tokyo Stock Exchange started to
crash in 1989, but it would be drip, drip, drip--more or less like the Great
Depression which did not reach the bottom until a few years later (and then
stayed there; indices varied, some were reconstructed later, such as GDP).
Nobody saw it coming, that Japan Inc was sort of over: probably two decades
of anemic economic growth ahead.
Since the 1985 Plaza Accord
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plaza_Accord
, Japanese yen had appreciated from ~240 yen to ~140 yen to a dollar. That,
coupled with the seemingly invincible juggernault that was Japan's export
machine, Japanese companies were awashed with cash, which were invested
overseas. A Japanese pharmaceutical povided $4m to a research subject at MGH
(promising at the time but a scientific fraud in fact). The company
dispatched a scientist to learn the know-how why Americans are so innovative
. (Fast forward: A few years later, the grant burned out, with no result:
unsurprising in view of the fraudulent nature of the MGH enterprise from the
outset). (MGH was not at fault; its principal investigator was.)
The Japanese scientist would joke: Who knows? Japanese economy might come
down to earth one day." Neither he nor I took his words seriously, nor did
we (or economists of the world) know it was the beginning of the end for
Japanese economy two years BEFORE.
An innocuous r5emark the Japanese scientist said was this: Japanese workers
PRETENDED to work diligently, especially in the presence of their boss. So
diligently that they work till late night every night and in weekends. (I
did not ask if they got paid for overtime. But laws in US do not compensate
PROFESSIONALS, such as lawyers and scientists, for overtime, for that is
what professionals are supposed to do.)
At the time, there were murmurs among prescient American researchers, who
mostly were in awe about everything Japanese, that Japanese were not really
productive--not as productive as Americans anyway but catching up,
statistically would show (from US Department of Labor, for example).
The keen but unwitting remark of my Japanese colleague would be, in part,
the Achilles heel of Japan Inc. Again, neither my colleague nor I knew the
significance of the remark.
Incidentally.
(a) My Japanese were not productive at all in his research. Rather he was
more interested in American way of life. But he must have been a good
biologist in Japan; otherwise he would not have been selected for the
posting.
(b) One day his colleagues called upon him from Japan. On their way out,
these Japanese, allegedly never having seen a fire alarm (a red square loop
inside a glass window with instruction and warning not to mess with), pulled
it. We had to evacuate and fire trucks came. The foreigners were not
punished. I could not fathom why Japanese, famous for discipline, would do
such a thing.
(c) I never got to ask German colleagues the same question, whether they
fool around in the daytime to LOOK busy at work. They seem straight arrows
to me.
(3) Far from China as US may be, this nation (US) is indeed the vantage
point to clinically study China. Blessed with cademic freedom and unfettered
information, as well as modern technology (internet is one), I have watched
China for a decade. China simply has no wherewithal to be strong by any
measure, in my view.
Your cold-eyed assessment is just anotehr piece in the jigsaw puzzle.
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codemonster (码怪) 于 (Sun Oct 16 14:05:51 2011, 美东) 提到:
装逼是一条不归路阿， 楼主要体谅装逼的人。。。
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phoenixali (四眼卷毛哥~上海老克勒) 于 (Sun Oct 16 14:59:20 2011, 美东) 提到:
赞professional
上回你司的MD说你们工作轻松flexible
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choi (choi) 于 (Sun Oct 16 15:36:49 2011, 美东) 提到:
(1) With a telephone interview which lasted a minute, I was hired as a
research scientist (doing the same as postdoc but sounding more important)
at Columbia University in late 1988. Two week after I arrived, after 8 pm I
was going home, Waiting for the levator just steps from the large laboratory
was a Chinese colleague, PhD from The University of Edinburgh. "You look
sad," I said. There was only two of us there. In a couple sentences, she
told me the boss was terrible. I was speechless. Indeed she, the boss, was.
I quit in months.
While I was there, a Taiwanese postdoc at University of Massachusetts
Medical Center at Worcester, who had been offered an assitant professorship
in a state university in the south, came to give a talk angling for a non-
tenured assitant professorship in the lab. His presentation was poor and I
knew he would not get the job. However, I was glad he did not. After the
presentation, the guy was encouraged (by my boss) to talk to people in the
lab. In his few minutes with me, I hinted people were not happy there. After
he returned home, he got the phone call from my boss.
(2) I went to a job interview with an associate professor of Havard Medical
School and principal investigator at Boston Children's Hospital. He was
Greek and one postdoc of his small (four-person) lab was Greek. After the
interview, he encouraged me to talk to the guys there. That greek guy told
me that "we cry everyday." I turned down the jon offer, a postdoctoral
fellowship. He was mad amd retaliated against me. (I was helpless.) In a
year, he was denied tenure and moved away.
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duiwu (不好带) 于 (Sun Oct 16 16:09:53 2011, 美东) 提到:
说说你在美国都讲了哪些"真话"?有这个机会吗?
"私下里说"的,不算.
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foxjing (小小树) 于 (Sun Oct 16 18:07:18 2011, 美东) 提到:
难
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drei (drei) 于 (Sun Oct 16 18:15:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
跟师弟的世界第一司不能比。
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dogwhisper (er) 于 (Sun Oct 16 20:06:36 2011, 美东) 提到:
这是你自己写的？真能写啊
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phoenixali (四眼卷毛哥~上海老克勒) 于 (Sun Oct 16 21:02:26 2011, 美东) 提到:
师兄说他们是不聪明做苦劳的
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bparadise (No) 于 (Sun Oct 16 22:37:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
re
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OverCloud (天马行空) 于 (Sun Oct 16 23:32:51 2011, 美东) 提到:
讲polite lie很容易，讲ugly truth很难。
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sam2009 (UncleSam) 于 (Sun Oct 16 23:49:51 2011, 美东) 提到:
人生本来就是一场戏。
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jazzcat (马不停蹄的忧伤) 于 (Sun Oct 16 23:52:12 2011, 美东) 提到:
你司最近狂挖师弟那个司的人回中国啊
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powershadow (敏感词○敏感瓷) 于 (Mon Oct 17 00:12:38 2011, 美东) 提到:
邪灵当道
讲真相需要勇气
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drei (drei) 于 (Mon Oct 17 02:41:21 2011, 美东) 提到:
今年中国分部一直在北美加紧找人倒是真的，难道国内现在生意这么红火了？
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jazzcat (马不停蹄的忧伤) 于 (Mon Oct 17 07:47:32 2011, 美东) 提到:
各司中国生意都很红火
昨天跟小四那司的合伙人吃中饭，他也提起他们在加紧把北美的中国人都弄回来
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BornIn1974 (BornIn1974) 于 (Mon Oct 17 11:43:08 2011, 美东) 提到:
你这个就太假了，这个叫“专业回答，政治正确”。
我看国外的面试经，人问你说为什么你要申请该工作，错误回答（往往是真话）是“我
需要这个工作，这个工作钱多，轻松”。 正确回答（往往是假话）是“我能为贵公司
带来效益，这个工作符合我的兴趣和能力”。
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phoenixali (四眼卷毛哥~上海老克勒) 于 (Mon Oct 17 11:48:50 2011, 美东) 提到:
师兄司的头说生意好得都来不及做
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drei (drei) 于 (Mon Oct 17 12:02:26 2011, 美东) 提到:
那湿蒂可速搞之。 |
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