w********h
发帖数: 12367 | 1 【 以下文字转载自 Macromolecules 讨论区,原文如下 】
发信人: wonderlich (左岸，遁去), 信区: Macromolecules
标 题: 钾通道水通道的结构解析真的终结争论了么？
发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Sun Nov 16 03:09:38 2003) WWW-POST
今晚阅读了一本书的一章，
谈论细胞膜内外的钠钾离子浓度差别的问题，
其实也是最原始最基本却直到如今仍然没有得到解决的问题。
按照传统的channel和pump的原理，
有不少致命的漏洞，
不计其数的离子种类造成了针对不同离子就需要构建不同的pump,
无论从size来说还是能量的消耗来说，
都是根本无法成立的。
而这个无法成立的pump理论是对于我们熟知的channel的补充，
因为单纯channel理论无法解释如果仅存在直径稍大于K+，
却小于Na+半径的channel为什么仍会允许少量Na+的渗透。
在解决这个问题的过程中，
今年的Nobel奖并不是第一个获奖的，
Erwin Neher & Bert Sakmann因为创造了patch-clamp技 | p*******r
发帖数: 4048 | 2 I don't know what is the evidence for his arguments, but mainstream science
almost completely accepts the channel and pump idea. I don't know why he
claims there is not enough energy for the pumps. There are many many types of
pumps and exchanges, many of them cloned and some of them with crystal
strucutres. I think the case is quite strong. These pumps can also be blocked
with drugs and the gradient is often abolished. We do those all the time in
our lab.
【在 w********h 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Macromolecules 讨论区,原文如下 】
: 发信人: wonderlich (左岸，遁去), 信区: Macromolecules
: 标 题: 钾通道水通道的结构解析真的终结争论了么？
: 发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Sun Nov 16 03:09:38 2003) WWW-POST
: 今晚阅读了一本书的一章，
: 谈论细胞膜内外的钠钾离子浓度差别的问题，
: 其实也是最原始最基本却直到如今仍然没有得到解决的问题。
: 按照传统的channel和pump的原理，
: 有不少致命的漏洞，
: 不计其数的离子种类造成了针对不同离子就需要构建不同的pump,
| w********h
发帖数: 12367 | 3 After reading that book, I do think that argument is quite valid.
Here is one email he sent to me. Forgive me to conceal his name.
"Yes, they are well accepted, but that has no real bearing on whether
they are right. McKinnon found narrow channels that ran from one end
to the other end of the "K-channel" protein. And, he went ahead to
speculate how potassium might go through while Na might not.
What he didn't mention is that such channels are general. They can be
found in the structure of many
【在 p*******r 的大作中提到】
: I don't know what is the evidence for his arguments, but mainstream science
: almost completely accepts the channel and pump idea. I don't know why he
: claims there is not enough energy for the pumps. There are many many types of
: pumps and exchanges, many of them cloned and some of them with crystal
: strucutres. I think the case is quite strong. These pumps can also be blocked
: with drugs and the gradient is often abolished. We do those all the time in
: our lab.
| P********l
发帖数: 452 | 4 This book is really interesting. Beside giving some conclusion, it overview
the cell system is different way.
Worth reading, worth buying.
http://www.cellsandgels.com/
【在 w********h 的大作中提到】
: 【 以下文字转载自 Macromolecules 讨论区,原文如下 】
: 发信人: wonderlich (左岸，遁去), 信区: Macromolecules
: 标 题: 钾通道水通道的结构解析真的终结争论了么？
: 发信站: Unknown Space - 未名空间 (Sun Nov 16 03:09:38 2003) WWW-POST
: 今晚阅读了一本书的一章，
: 谈论细胞膜内外的钠钾离子浓度差别的问题，
: 其实也是最原始最基本却直到如今仍然没有得到解决的问题。
: 按照传统的channel和pump的原理，
: 有不少致命的漏洞，
: 不计其数的离子种类造成了针对不同离子就需要构建不同的pump,
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