g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 1 先要谢谢各位统计版的member,解决了我最近的很多困惑，其中的有些是很重要的。
我想问读完统计的MS后申请商科的phd机会是不是大呢？因为我是社会科学的背景，修
过一些统计的
课，但没有任何系统训练，现在动了心思想转行去business里面，不想再做累的要死收
入又低的事情
了，即使不能去商界按bar赚钱，同样做faculty商科的也比社科的好很多，所以总之我
现在是向钱看
了
只是自己对统计行业了解不多，想听听各位前辈的意见。读统计的应该不算少吧？可是
商学院的教授好
像中国人很少，是为什么呢？ |
l*********s
发帖数: 5409 | |
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 3
你是指likeliness 么？可是那样的话，为什么商学院里中国人不多呢，phd？相比于其
他
【在 l*********s 的大作中提到】
: very high
|
l*********s
发帖数: 5409 | 4 yes; there are quite some.
【在 g**********e 的大作中提到】
:
: 你是指likeliness 么？可是那样的话，为什么商学院里中国人不多呢，phd？相比于其
: 他
|
p******r
发帖数: 1279 | 5 商界讲究的是presentation，你看他们的那些论文的动不动就三四十页长，其实就前前
后后翻来覆去讲同一个东西。 如果你觉得自己presentation够好，那应该有戏。 |
d******g
发帖数: 130 | 6 Depends.商科PhD差别大了，Fin, Accounting竞争激烈，尤其是tier1,2的学校，仅凭
统计m.s这个年头很难，牛校ms或许有帮助。其他phd in Operations, Organization,
HR, etc.又是另一个story,相对没有前两者竞争激烈。
【在 g**********e 的大作中提到】
: 先要谢谢各位统计版的member,解决了我最近的很多困惑，其中的有些是很重要的。
: 我想问读完统计的MS后申请商科的phd机会是不是大呢？因为我是社会科学的背景，修
: 过一些统计的
: 课，但没有任何系统训练，现在动了心思想转行去business里面，不想再做累的要死收
: 入又低的事情
: 了，即使不能去商界按bar赚钱，同样做faculty商科的也比社科的好很多，所以总之我
: 现在是向钱看
: 了
: 只是自己对统计行业了解不多，想听听各位前辈的意见。读统计的应该不算少吧？可是
: 商学院的教授好
|
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 7
说的是，不过我本来quantitative方面背景也不够，fin acc这种的也就不想了。我好
奇有什么原因
会prevent stat MS from being wanting to apply to phd in biz？我想到的是
1.喜欢stat
2.不喜欢biz
3.不喜欢读太多书，所以不喜欢phd
4.靠统计的ms已经可以找到不错的商界工作
【在 d******g 的大作中提到】
: Depends.商科PhD差别大了，Fin, Accounting竞争激烈，尤其是tier1,2的学校，仅凭
: 统计m.s这个年头很难，牛校ms或许有帮助。其他phd in Operations, Organization,
: HR, etc.又是另一个story,相对没有前两者竞争激烈。
|
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 8 总之就我个人做的那点research看的话，如果是想最后做faculty的，同等学校里面商
学院的pay明显要好些啊 |
x**********0
发帖数: 163 | 9 I was a master of economics, but i changed my major to statistics.
PHD programs in Fin and Accounting, are the hardest ones to get in, but the
job offers are pretty good, only if you want to be faculty.
You can consider some PHD programs in Statistics which belong to the
Business school. Also it's hard.
about the reason why most of PHDs in Fin and Acct are Chinese
Remember, most Americans can find good jobs with Bacholar degree, at most
get a MBA degree.
But if you really want to get in the Business School, first , if you have
work experience, it's a plus
if you graduate from American school, plus
if you do some modals and have a solid foundation in math, plus
I do know a few statistics master successfully get into the business school |
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 10
but the
most
have
谢谢这么仔细回复。我本科学过一些统计（但不够minor的量），数学学的很少很少而
且是intro
level的。我的想法是希望能读统计的ms，然后和本科背景（非经济社科，但是有大量
lab
research/data analysis的经验和一篇2作publication在本领域的journal，尽管内容
和商
业无关）结合起来去试试商学院的phd。
还有就是，可能我写的比较乱，其实我问的是，为什么商学院里中国人faculty不多，
相比于其他比
如数学或者统计的，因为我作为外行感觉凭中国过来又是读数学统计的背景，应该是很
有可能去读个
biz 的phd然后拿better pay的吧？（相比数统）
【在 x**********0 的大作中提到】
: I was a master of economics, but i changed my major to statistics.
: PHD programs in Fin and Accounting, are the hardest ones to get in, but the
: job offers are pretty good, only if you want to be faculty.
: You can consider some PHD programs in Statistics which belong to the
: Business school. Also it's hard.
: about the reason why most of PHDs in Fin and Acct are Chinese
: Remember, most Americans can find good jobs with Bacholar degree, at most
: get a MBA degree.
: But if you really want to get in the Business School, first , if you have
: work experience, it's a plus
|
|
|
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 11 另外，我考虑的biz phd是management那个方向的 |
s***r
发帖数: 1121 | 12 Try phd in accounting, NOT management, NOT finance. |
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 13
不管是我听说的还是数据上看，accounting确实前景不错，不仅机会多而且回报好。可
惜的是我对这
个领域了解太少，也没有任何背景，因此也不想浪费时间去试了。management的话我可
以用上一些本
科的时候社科的背景，可能不是很多，但accounting的话那是彻底用不上了。
【在 s***r 的大作中提到】
: Try phd in accounting, NOT management, NOT finance.
|
s****s
发帖数: 368 | 14 PhD in business: very competitive to get the admission. That's why few
Chinese are in B school. |
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 15
可是很多science的program也很竞争激烈啊？我看了一些商学院的faculty的cv，比背
景的话很多
进入了science phd的中国人完全也有资格去商学院吧，最多大不了稍微差一些。比如
两个一样背景的
人，假设是化学好了，A和B，本来2人都可以去top20的science program，然后A选择了
top40的商
学phd而B去了化学phd，那A毕业后可能去一个排80的商学院做faculty，B去top40的做
化学
faculty，可是A的pay很有可能远远高于B。所以兴趣之类不论的话，去查一些的商学院
很可能短期来
看收入好很多啊？至于说长远，做科学有概率通过发明patent什么的赚钱，但这个不确
定性太大了。
总之，我的担心是会不会有其他原因，实力、竞争之外的原因，比如语言不够或者消息
不对等，造成
的？
【在 s****s 的大作中提到】
: PhD in business: very competitive to get the admission. That's why few
: Chinese are in B school.
|
C******y
发帖数: 2007 | 16 我以前和学校b-school的一个中国phd聊过，她说他们当届只招了4个phd学生，偶们学
校b-school top50吧，穷乡辟壤不要见笑。
【在 g**********e 的大作中提到】
:
: 可是很多science的program也很竞争激烈啊？我看了一些商学院的faculty的cv，比背
: 景的话很多
: 进入了science phd的中国人完全也有资格去商学院吧，最多大不了稍微差一些。比如
: 两个一样背景的
: 人，假设是化学好了，A和B，本来2人都可以去top20的science program，然后A选择了
: top40的商
: 学phd而B去了化学phd，那A毕业后可能去一个排80的商学院做faculty，B去top40的做
: 化学
: faculty，可是A的pay很有可能远远高于B。所以兴趣之类不论的话，去查一些的商学院
|
m****e
发帖数: 282 | 17 很多人道听途说，你仔细考虑。金融和运筹，是需要很强的数理背景的，所用工具有其
不同。如果您的统计是半
路出家，是会有难度的。当然，你会比很多人有优势，统计硕士不是没用的。会计，嘿
嘿，您大体有概念吗？无
论以后你做什么，如果基础都不懂，您如何混呐？学生问您FIFO，您一知半解。一到细
节上，很麻烦的。市场对
你实在比较合适，统计用得多且细节上比较直接。谁没见过几个卖东西的呢？我没说容
易，只谈合适。组织行
为，您要是对作美国孔乙已感兴趣，就去。我担心的是英文。人力，我看不如去法学院
。管理经济，就是IO, 工
作上和经济或战略差不多。现在还有个脑残专业叫创业学，基本上只有教职了。商学院
的统计专业常在运筹下
面，但那样的话你转啥呢？招人的看你统计博士，也看不轻你。
【在 g**********e 的大作中提到】
: 先要谢谢各位统计版的member,解决了我最近的很多困惑，其中的有些是很重要的。
: 我想问读完统计的MS后申请商科的phd机会是不是大呢？因为我是社会科学的背景，修
: 过一些统计的
: 课，但没有任何系统训练，现在动了心思想转行去business里面，不想再做累的要死收
: 入又低的事情
: 了，即使不能去商界按bar赚钱，同样做faculty商科的也比社科的好很多，所以总之我
: 现在是向钱看
: 了
: 只是自己对统计行业了解不多，想听听各位前辈的意见。读统计的应该不算少吧？可是
: 商学院的教授好
|
m****e
发帖数: 282 | 18 对了，不能只看现在。会计这行五年后什么样谁也说不准。其实只要有点会计背景，这
博士还真不难读。已经有
数人觉得会计博士生不怎么聪明的了。当然，我说的是特例，但总体不难。
【在 g**********e 的大作中提到】
:
: 可是很多science的program也很竞争激烈啊？我看了一些商学院的faculty的cv，比背
: 景的话很多
: 进入了science phd的中国人完全也有资格去商学院吧，最多大不了稍微差一些。比如
: 两个一样背景的
: 人，假设是化学好了，A和B，本来2人都可以去top20的science program，然后A选择了
: top40的商
: 学phd而B去了化学phd，那A毕业后可能去一个排80的商学院做faculty，B去top40的做
: 化学
: faculty，可是A的pay很有可能远远高于B。所以兴趣之类不论的话，去查一些的商学院
|
s***r
发帖数: 1121 | 19
PHD accounting is totally different from master of accounting. You do not
need to have any credit/debit knowledge. Currently the research in
accounting area is increasingly similar to finance. many accounting people
are doing corporate governance, behavioral finance, or even asset pricing.
management的话我可
Management is not Chinese strength. 社科的背景 has not much use.
Accounting research needs to handle large amount of data (like stock data)
using SAS or other tools.
What is your GMAT? If GMAT < 700 forget B-school.
【在 g**********e 的大作中提到】
:
: 可是很多science的program也很竞争激烈啊？我看了一些商学院的faculty的cv，比背
: 景的话很多
: 进入了science phd的中国人完全也有资格去商学院吧，最多大不了稍微差一些。比如
: 两个一样背景的
: 人，假设是化学好了，A和B，本来2人都可以去top20的science program，然后A选择了
: top40的商
: 学phd而B去了化学phd，那A毕业后可能去一个排80的商学院做faculty，B去top40的做
: 化学
: faculty，可是A的pay很有可能远远高于B。所以兴趣之类不论的话，去查一些的商学院
|
h**********0
发帖数: 614 | 20 the difficult part in B-school is never about the maths. It is that you
study U.S. business and need to argue with Americans why you have better and
deeper understanding of it.Especially in top schools.
【在 m****e 的大作中提到】
: 对了，不能只看现在。会计这行五年后什么样谁也说不准。其实只要有点会计背景，这
: 博士还真不难读。已经有
: 数人觉得会计博士生不怎么聪明的了。当然，我说的是特例，但总体不难。
|
|
|
m****e
发帖数: 282 | 21 I am glad to see you put it this way. Apparently, math is not an issue for
you, good. It is never math? How about for someone that had a pure social
science background without much exposure to very basic math? Do not
generalize out of the context. I knew someone with engineering degrees who
always complained about math in business phd programs. In your case, never
say never.
One more suggestion for you, argue? Guess it is all that you know.You think
the world of business is about a bunch of jerks fighting with each other?
Please, if you are not even in the field, do more research before you have
to humiliate yourself. If you are, and in a top school (luck?), I can simply
conclude that you have a long way to go.
Math is critical in all business doctoral programs, it is simply a matter of
how much. The organization behavior guys still need some understanding of
the so-called multi-variate statistics. I have seen a OB researcher who
dedicated his research on detailed discussions of application issues with
factor analysis. The OB guys adore the method. FYI, OB is normally deemed as
a soft field in business.
The math in business school is about rigorously analyzing a topic with math
and fabricating a good story out of the mathematical results. The major
difference between a journalist, a professional story maker, and a business
researcher is the methodology. Exceptions are certainly not rare where
symbols and equations constitute every conversation and the whole paper
conveys nothing but math where words could even be redundant. If you call
that easy, we should all bow to the unprecedented "genius".
I have been teaching business for more than ten years. There has never been
anyone, including the top school researchers, that ever downplayed the
challenging nature of math in business curriculum and research applications
as outrageously as you did. Do not tell me you are a MBA student, MBA does
not even count as an academic degree in any business schools. We call it "
professional degree".
Your inability to concentrate within the context of discussion is concerning
. Your presumptuous conclusion is light years away from discretion. The
difficulty in developing persuasion skills does not justify the claim that
math is not difficult, there is no logical relationship. By the way, when
we say the accounting students are not that smart in comparison to other
majors, do not assume we limited our perception only to math. I sincerely
hope you are not in any research program.
and
【在 h**********0 的大作中提到】
: the difficult part in B-school is never about the maths. It is that you
: study U.S. business and need to argue with Americans why you have better and
: deeper understanding of it.Especially in top schools.
|
b***z
发帖数: 209 | 22
【在 g**********e 的大作中提到】
: 先要谢谢各位统计版的member,解决了我最近的很多困惑，其中的有些是很重要的。
: 我想问读完统计的MS后申请商科的phd机会是不是大呢？因为我是社会科学的背景，修
: 过一些统计的
: 课，但没有任何系统训练，现在动了心思想转行去business里面，不想再做累的要死收
: 入又低的事情
: 了，即使不能去商界按bar赚钱，同样做faculty商科的也比社科的好很多，所以总之我
: 现在是向钱看
: 了
: 只是自己对统计行业了解不多，想听听各位前辈的意见。读统计的应该不算少吧？可是
: 商学院的教授好
|
b********e
发帖数: 1796 | 23 不是完全没机会，但是机会也不会很大吧。
LZ加油 |
s***0
发帖数: 525 | 24 make sure you like faculty work too |
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 25
not
people
pricing.
data)
我并没take gmat，考的gre，因为b school的phd是可以用gre的，另外的话是因为原先
没有考虑
去b schoo所以没有考。
【在 s***r 的大作中提到】
:
: PHD accounting is totally different from master of accounting. You do not
: need to have any credit/debit knowledge. Currently the research in
: accounting area is increasingly similar to finance. many accounting people
: are doing corporate governance, behavioral finance, or even asset pricing.
: management的话我可
: Management is not Chinese strength. 社科的背景 has not much use.
: Accounting research needs to handle large amount of data (like stock data)
: using SAS or other tools.
: What is your GMAT? If GMAT < 700 forget B-school.
|
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 26
至少从目前的经历来看我是很enjoy上课和研究的，但未来也不好说。
【在 s***0 的大作中提到】
: make sure you like faculty work too
|
g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 27
for
social
who
never
think
other?
have
simply
饿。。。我其实本科也上过一些数学数学，calculus I II和linear algebra &
abstract
algebra，然后上过4门统计的课，主要因为学校的要求。当然跟工科理科的数学量比不
了，但是我
觉得basic math的exposure还是有的。
【在 m****e 的大作中提到】
: I am glad to see you put it this way. Apparently, math is not an issue for
: you, good. It is never math? How about for someone that had a pure social
: science background without much exposure to very basic math? Do not
: generalize out of the context. I knew someone with engineering degrees who
: always complained about math in business phd programs. In your case, never
: say never.
: One more suggestion for you, argue? Guess it is all that you know.You think
: the world of business is about a bunch of jerks fighting with each other?
: Please, if you are not even in the field, do more research before you have
: to humiliate yourself. If you are, and in a top school (luck?), I can simply
|
h**********0
发帖数: 614 | 28 you are so naive. I bet you are at most in a teaching school and one of those I have seen that always complain about their papers being rejected by top journals. How many most well cited papers in business are because of its math? How many professors are famous because of their quantative skills? I am talking about finance and accounting, not those areas that do not pay much. Maybe in low tier schools,math skills vary a lot among students or even faculties. However, in top schools, the difference is limited.
Being in a top school and work with editors of top journal as referees make
me realize how papers are evaluated. Putting too much emphasis on it will
only make Americans label you as mechanical nerd and won't land you a good
job in top schools. The top journals are also controlled by those people.
Math is important. However, I have seen so many Asians who are discriminated
against because they ignore the simple fact. That is, many people in U.S.
tend to downplay the importance of the work when they do not understand the
quantative analysis.Making up a story based on results is called "data mining" and usually the story does not make much sense. That is reality. That is also the reason why some Asian researchers are often referred to as technical but no economic intuition.Unfair? True. But I do hear that comments from some editors and referees of top journals. They won't tell you at your face, you idiot.
I am surprised that you don't see this if you have been in academia for 10 years.Enjoy your life in teaching schools. I do believe that life is easier and simpler there.
think
simply
【在 m****e 的大作中提到】
: I am glad to see you put it this way. Apparently, math is not an issue for
: you, good. It is never math? How about for someone that had a pure social
: science background without much exposure to very basic math? Do not
: generalize out of the context. I knew someone with engineering degrees who
: always complained about math in business phd programs. In your case, never
: say never.
: One more suggestion for you, argue? Guess it is all that you know.You think
: the world of business is about a bunch of jerks fighting with each other?
: Please, if you are not even in the field, do more research before you have
: to humiliate yourself. If you are, and in a top school (luck?), I can simply
|
q**j
发帖数: 10612 | 29 你也很naive。牛的paper要math和idea都好。idea好，math不深的 easy apple已经被
搞定完了。很多牛人故意把paper写的非常mathematically abstract，让土人看不懂。
你说有些中国人数学好被歧视，其实是因为idea不好。不是数学的错。有个叫王江的，
就是因为数学好，能解别人解不了的方程，现在已经是大牛了。
of
skills
pay
make
discriminated
【在 h**********0 的大作中提到】
: you are so naive. I bet you are at most in a teaching school and one of those I have seen that always complain about their papers being rejected by top journals. How many most well cited papers in business are because of its math? How many professors are famous because of their quantative skills? I am talking about finance and accounting, not those areas that do not pay much. Maybe in low tier schools,math skills vary a lot among students or even faculties. However, in top schools, the difference is limited.
: Being in a top school and work with editors of top journal as referees make
: me realize how papers are evaluated. Putting too much emphasis on it will
: only make Americans label you as mechanical nerd and won't land you a good
: job in top schools. The top journals are also controlled by those people.
: Math is important. However, I have seen so many Asians who are discriminated
: against because they ignore the simple fact. That is, many people in U.S.
: tend to downplay the importance of the work when they do not understand the
: quantative analysis.Making up a story based on results is called "data mining" and usually the story does not make much sense. That is reality. That is also the reason why some Asian researchers are often referred to as technical but no economic intuition.Unfair? True. But I do hear that comments from some editors and referees of top journals. They won't tell you at your face, you idiot.
: I am surprised that you don't see this if you have been in academia for 10 years.Enjoy your life in teaching schools. I do believe that life is easier and simpler there.
|
h**********0
发帖数: 614 | 30 That's was my point. Competition among 牛人 often centers around ideas not about maths. I am only talking about how to win over other 牛人. Nobody cares 土人. 当然我说的不针对那些数学差到连phd program 都不能survive 的。
"很多牛人故意把paper写的非常mathematically abstract" this won't work for top
journals since editors can always find referees who specialize in the area
and can understand the method.So I don't think they do this just to make it
easier to publish. On the contrary, it will do the opposite.
【在 q**j 的大作中提到】
: 你也很naive。牛的paper要math和idea都好。idea好，math不深的 easy apple已经被
: 搞定完了。很多牛人故意把paper写的非常mathematically abstract，让土人看不懂。
: 你说有些中国人数学好被歧视，其实是因为idea不好。不是数学的错。有个叫王江的，
: 就是因为数学好，能解别人解不了的方程，现在已经是大牛了。
:
: of
: skills
: pay
: make
: discriminated
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q**j
发帖数: 10612 | 31 niu ren won't worry about getting their paper published. they just want to m
ake it hard for others to read., at least some do that.
about maths. I am only talking about how to win over other 牛人. Nobody
cares 土人. 当然我说的不针对那些数学差到连phd program 都不能survive 的。
top
area
it
【在 h**********0 的大作中提到】
: That's was my point. Competition among 牛人 often centers around ideas not about maths. I am only talking about how to win over other 牛人. Nobody cares 土人. 当然我说的不针对那些数学差到连phd program 都不能survive 的。
: "很多牛人故意把paper写的非常mathematically abstract" this won't work for top
: journals since editors can always find referees who specialize in the area
: and can understand the method.So I don't think they do this just to make it
: easier to publish. On the contrary, it will do the opposite.
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h**********0
发帖数: 614 | 32 学术圈不发文章何以成公认的牛人？任何人都至少有几篇有名的发表文章才会被认为是
牛人。无名之辈，你故意写的越难，越没人看。
m
【在 q**j 的大作中提到】
: niu ren won't worry about getting their paper published. they just want to m
: ake it hard for others to read., at least some do that.
:
: about maths. I am only talking about how to win over other 牛人. Nobody
: cares 土人. 当然我说的不针对那些数学差到连phd program 都不能survive 的。
: top
: area
: it
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g**********e
发帖数: 383 | 33 饿。。math aside,能不能先讨论一下正题？ |
