K****D
发帖数: 30533 | |
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | |
d*g
发帖数: 16592 | |
d*g
发帖数: 16592 | 4 lol
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: 红土场地
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 5 加了个硬地的。
【在 d*g 的大作中提到】
: lol
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 6 your point is more of style between Spanish tennis vs the US tennis....
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 加了个硬地的。
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 7 Leave alone the volleys, at least they drive and slice at the same time.
And dropshot/lob also, hehe. All depends on the situation. Even young
hard hitting baseliners do that.
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: your point is more of style between Spanish tennis vs the US tennis....
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 8 Volley is another level of game. This takes more time -- knowing when to
go to the net, knowing how to approach, knowing how to finish, etc.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Leave alone the volleys, at least they drive and slice at the same time.
: And dropshot/lob also, hehe. All depends on the situation. Even young
: hard hitting baseliners do that.
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 9 growing up playing on different type of surface, taught by different coach,
play against different opponents will produce different style of players.
What I disagree upon is your bias toward the "动作派", your argument infers
that "动作派" lacks the games. The two Frenchmen too have proper forms, you
do not qualify them as "动作派" simply because they do drop shots and slice
more? Slice and drop shot too have a proper "动作"....
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Leave alone the volleys, at least they drive and slice at the same time.
: And dropshot/lob also, hehe. All depends on the situation. Even young
: hard hitting baseliners do that.
|
T*U
发帖数: 22634 | 10 两人在不同场地上互相克啊
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBL4ar5YAWU
: [EDIT] Ok, 换了一个硬地的。平均水平比上面的略高0.25左右。
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKcZcQjV-xs
: 看看有什么区别。
|
|
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 11 That's just a term. 动作派 means 动作>game. WS派 means game>动作。
如果动作和game水平相当，虽然也可以根据50.1>49.9这样来分，但是就没那么大
意义了。
比如那场硬地，中年wsn就可以算ws派，young gun就可以算动作派。
,
infers
you
slice
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: growing up playing on different type of surface, taught by different coach,
: play against different opponents will produce different style of players.
: What I disagree upon is your bias toward the "动作派", your argument infers
: that "动作派" lacks the games. The two Frenchmen too have proper forms, you
: do not qualify them as "动作派" simply because they do drop shots and slice
: more? Slice and drop shot too have a proper "动作"....
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 12 Not the same two guys. Hard court match is futures qualifying round 1.
Clay court match is club match.
【在 T*U 的大作中提到】
: 两人在不同场地上互相克啊
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 13 主要关键不在于教练怎么教的，而是比赛怎么充分使用自己的长处有效的赢比赛。
如果两个暴力互拉几十拍，谁也搞不死谁，要么是这俩某些技术上存在严重缺陷，
要么就是这俩game都不怎么样。
,
infers
you
slice
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: growing up playing on different type of surface, taught by different coach,
: play against different opponents will produce different style of players.
: What I disagree upon is your bias toward the "动作派", your argument infers
: that "动作派" lacks the games. The two Frenchmen too have proper forms, you
: do not qualify them as "动作派" simply because they do drop shots and slice
: more? Slice and drop shot too have a proper "动作"....
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 14 其实什么派不派的主要也就是低水平的人相互嘲弄好玩的而已。 到了5.0以上再提什么
动作派，野球派已经没什么意义了。 大家的动作不管是正统还是野球都基本不容易被
break down, 要break down 对方就得找pattern了。这也是为什么有人对我说到了5.0
网球就更好玩了。。。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: That's just a term. 动作派 means 动作>game. WS派 means game>动作。
: 如果动作和game水平相当，虽然也可以根据50.1>49.9这样来分，但是就没那么大
: 意义了。
: 比如那场硬地，中年wsn就可以算ws派，young gun就可以算动作派。
:
: ,
: infers
: you
: slice
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 15 这也是为什么偶为国内动作派着急。这俩硬地法国老，转成NTRP一个是很low的5.0,
另一个是below avg 5.0. 偶很怀疑俩中国哥们碰他们的胜率。论动作肯定比那个
wsn强。
0
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: 其实什么派不派的主要也就是低水平的人相互嘲弄好玩的而已。 到了5.0以上再提什么
: 动作派，野球派已经没什么意义了。 大家的动作不管是正统还是野球都基本不容易被
: break down, 要break down 对方就得找pattern了。这也是为什么有人对我说到了5.0
: 网球就更好玩了。。。
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 16 nadal 和 joker 比赛都有很多几十拍的rally, 和murray也这样。 他们是技术上有缺
陷还是他们的 game 都不怎么样？ nadal 站那么后面， 其实打个drop shot再lob 他
就行了， 何必费这么多拍. Nadal 接发也站那么后面， 下手发个back spin很重的球
就该能ace他了， 这种发球对世界排名前20的都不难。。。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 主要关键不在于教练怎么教的，而是比赛怎么充分使用自己的长处有效的赢比赛。
: 如果两个暴力互拉几十拍，谁也搞不死谁，要么是这俩某些技术上存在严重缺陷，
: 要么就是这俩game都不怎么样。
:
: ,
: infers
: you
: slice
|
z*********n
发帖数: 94654 | 17 你说的是现代网球，老肯说的貌似是古代网球
不过我那天翻usta寄来的网球杂志，里边还专门提到，古代网球虽然在pro level不行
了，在recreational level应该还是很有效的，呵呵。
如果古代那种chip volley, serve volley, drop, 平击玩得好的，在业余水平肯定能
行得通
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: nadal 和 joker 比赛都有很多几十拍的rally, 和murray也这样。 他们是技术上有缺
: 陷还是他们的 game 都不怎么样？ nadal 站那么后面， 其实打个drop shot再lob 他
: 就行了， 何必费这么多拍. Nadal 接发也站那么后面， 下手发个back spin很重的球
: 就该能ace他了， 这种发球对世界排名前20的都不难。。。
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 18 都是技术上有缺陷。发球都远不如底线。对于Joker，网前更是远不如发球。
Murray的overhead可能是前20最差的。
看看人家老费。。。
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: nadal 和 joker 比赛都有很多几十拍的rally, 和murray也这样。 他们是技术上有缺
: 陷还是他们的 game 都不怎么样？ nadal 站那么后面， 其实打个drop shot再lob 他
: 就行了， 何必费这么多拍. Nadal 接发也站那么后面， 下手发个back spin很重的球
: 就该能ace他了， 这种发球对世界排名前20的都不难。。。
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 19 我同样怀疑法国老碰中国哥们的胜率。。。 打了才知道， 很多球你看这两人互相打时
用的出来， 换个人很可能就打不出了。 本身就是不同的style, 就看谁能克制谁了。
这也是为什么发球和接发最重要。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 这也是为什么偶为国内动作派着急。这俩硬地法国老，转成NTRP一个是很low的5.0,
: 另一个是below avg 5.0. 偶很怀疑俩中国哥们碰他们的胜率。论动作肯定比那个
: wsn强。
:
: 0
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 20 偶的估计是中国哥们可以有略高于50%的胜率对法国wsn, 对young gun肯定没戏。
问题是他们可是young gun的年龄和速度阿。
也就是说偶估计他们在USTA也就5.0 low的样子。
。
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: 我同样怀疑法国老碰中国哥们的胜率。。。 打了才知道， 很多球你看这两人互相打时
: 用的出来， 换个人很可能就打不出了。 本身就是不同的style, 就看谁能克制谁了。
: 这也是为什么发球和接发最重要。
|
|
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 21 感觉这俩中国哥们可能不是game不行，而是技术有缺陷。
刚看到蓝衣一个还算不错的网前机会直接volley出界了几米。
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你说的是现代网球，老肯说的貌似是古代网球
: 不过我那天翻usta寄来的网球杂志，里边还专门提到，古代网球虽然在pro level不行
: 了，在recreational level应该还是很有效的，呵呵。
: 如果古代那种chip volley, serve volley, drop, 平击玩得好的，在业余水平肯定能
: 行得通
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 22 完全两码事， 现代和古代在动作上有一定的分歧， 但都可以有“动作派”。 我的
argument是，是不是动作派， 和有没有game没有直接的相对关系（at higher level).
【在 z*********n 的大作中提到】
: 你说的是现代网球，老肯说的貌似是古代网球
: 不过我那天翻usta寄来的网球杂志，里边还专门提到，古代网球虽然在pro level不行
: 了，在recreational level应该还是很有效的，呵呵。
: 如果古代那种chip volley, serve volley, drop, 平击玩得好的，在业余水平肯定能
: 行得通
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 23 如果你用偶的定义，动作派和game就有直接关系。因为动作派就定义为game不行的。
也就是说5.0联赛里也存在着有着5.5 strokes但是只能打得动5.0对手的。
).
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: 完全两码事， 现代和古代在动作上有一定的分歧， 但都可以有“动作派”。 我的
: argument是，是不是动作派， 和有没有game没有直接的相对关系（at higher level).
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 24 5.0 low 又怎么样呢？ What your point? To get better, they need to slice
more and learn how to use drop shot more?
我同样认为他们最多到mid 5.0(base on this short clip only), 但我觉得他们该
focus 的是how to use less effort to hit the same quality of shots....
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 偶的估计是中国哥们可以有略高于50%的胜率对法国wsn, 对young gun肯定没戏。
: 问题是他们可是young gun的年龄和速度阿。
: 也就是说偶估计他们在USTA也就5.0 low的样子。
:
: 。
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 25 the difference in game is not usage of some slice shot, or drop shot, it's
more of handle the key points mentally and stay focus longer. This part of
game is much harder than the techniques. This is why some people say 70% of
tennis game is mental.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: 如果你用偶的定义，动作派和game就有直接关系。因为动作派就定义为game不行的。
: 也就是说5.0联赛里也存在着有着5.5 strokes但是只能打得动5.0对手的。
:
: ).
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 26
My point is their NTRP can improve easily by improving game plan, by using
whatever technique they have today. They are far away from optimizing
their weapons.
In another word, yes, they need to slice/lob/drop/mix serve/approach etc
more. Pure violent style only works well if you can overpower your opponent.
Mixing up not only discloses opponent's weakness or opens up oppurtunities,
but also increases the chance he make errors.
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: 5.0 low 又怎么样呢？ What your point? To get better, they need to slice
: more and learn how to use drop shot more?
: 我同样认为他们最多到mid 5.0(base on this short clip only), 但我觉得他们该
: focus 的是how to use less effort to hit the same quality of shots....
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 27 you consider them as 暴力?!
opponent.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
:
: My point is their NTRP can improve easily by improving game plan, by using
: whatever technique they have today. They are far away from optimizing
: their weapons.
: In another word, yes, they need to slice/lob/drop/mix serve/approach etc
: more. Pure violent style only works well if you can overpower your opponent.
: Mixing up not only discloses opponent's weakness or opens up oppurtunities,
: but also increases the chance he make errors.
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 28 " My point is their NTRP can improve easily by improving game plan"
it's always easier to say "easily" for others when judging from the side
line.... Can you easily improve your NTRP rating?
opponent.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
:
: My point is their NTRP can improve easily by improving game plan, by using
: whatever technique they have today. They are far away from optimizing
: their weapons.
: In another word, yes, they need to slice/lob/drop/mix serve/approach etc
: more. Pure violent style only works well if you can overpower your opponent.
: Mixing up not only discloses opponent's weakness or opens up oppurtunities,
: but also increases the chance he make errors.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 29 That's another aspect which the Chinese dudes generally lack. I can't
tell the difference they play under different scores. Without the scores
on the screen, I generally lose track of the scores, because they play
the same the 1st point and last point, or any point.
UE when 40-0 and when 30-40 is completely different.
of
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: the difference in game is not usage of some slice shot, or drop shot, it's
: more of handle the key points mentally and stay focus longer. This part of
: game is much harder than the techniques. This is why some people say 70% of
: tennis game is mental.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 30 I can't because my game is only slightly below my form.
But these guys have great potential.
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: " My point is their NTRP can improve easily by improving game plan"
: it's always easier to say "easily" for others when judging from the side
: line.... Can you easily improve your NTRP rating?
:
: opponent.
|
|
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 31 I feel that's the hardest they can hit as of today. If they hit any harder
it would cause too many UE.
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: you consider them as 暴力?!
:
: opponent.
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 32 i do not see them as 暴力。 They are both grinders. Both hit with heavy
topspin, move each other around and look for weaker response to exploit.
They are not trying to out hit each other, nor are they trying to win the
point through pace.
The guy in green seems lean toward all court player, so grinder/all court
player.
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: I feel that's the hardest they can hit as of today. If they hit any harder
: it would cause too many UE.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 33 No, I can't improve my NTRP by simply adjusting my game plan. Once your game
level is on par with form level, any further improvement requires:
1) improvements in form, and/or
2) improvements in game.
Say I can tie with a guy with 4.0 strokes + 3.0 game. I am 3.5 strokes + 3.5
game.
For him to beat me, he can either do 4.5 strokes + 3.0 game, or 4.0 strokes
+ 3.5 game. The latter is obviously easier to achieve, since lower level
aspect always improves more easily.
for me to beat him, I need to do 4.0 strokes + 3.5 game, or 3.5 strokes + 4.
0
game. Either way is harder than him 3.0->3.5 game improvement.
reached
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: i do not see them as 暴力。 They are both grinders. Both hit with heavy
: topspin, move each other around and look for weaker response to exploit.
: They are not trying to out hit each other, nor are they trying to win the
: point through pace.
: The guy in green seems lean toward all court player, so grinder/all court
: player.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 34 They are nowhere as topspin as you or billtian, hehe. I mean topspin
component in strokes, not rpm.
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: i do not see them as 暴力。 They are both grinders. Both hit with heavy
: topspin, move each other around and look for weaker response to exploit.
: They are not trying to out hit each other, nor are they trying to win the
: point through pace.
: The guy in green seems lean toward all court player, so grinder/all court
: player.
|
n**u
发帖数: 768 | 35 常打红土的和美国硬地style感觉有些不同。 pace慢了一点点，looping多了一点点，
上网少了一点点。也许是录像感觉，现场可能感觉更快。
有时候看录像会感觉我们WSN也能上去搞两下，真打球都碰不到，呵呵。
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBL4ar5YAWU
: [EDIT] Ok, 换了一个硬地的。平均水平比上面的略高0.25左右。
: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YKcZcQjV-xs
: 看看有什么区别。
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 36 which topspin component are you talking about... in many neutral rallies,
they have a very high net clearance... sure they drive the ball when they
see an opening, but that's what you suppose to do...
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: They are nowhere as topspin as you or billtian, hehe. I mean topspin
: component in strokes, not rpm.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 37 Topspin component == ball trajectory. I.e. avg net clearance not as high as
you vs billtian.
They grab any chance to attack, by angle or by pace. While you or billtian
may not, may still hit another neutral shot. The reason they can't win
point is that the ball pace is not fast enough comparing to defense skills.
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: which topspin component are you talking about... in many neutral rallies,
: they have a very high net clearance... sure they drive the ball when they
: see an opening, but that's what you suppose to do...
|
h******n
发帖数: 734 | 38 this doesn't sound right, u can hit a slow flat ball without any spin and
with a high trajectory.
as
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Topspin component == ball trajectory. I.e. avg net clearance not as high as
: you vs billtian.
: They grab any chance to attack, by angle or by pace. While you or billtian
: may not, may still hit another neutral shot. The reason they can't win
: point is that the ball pace is not fast enough comparing to defense skills.
|
h******n
发帖数: 734 | 39 if you really want to dig into this:
rpm == spin
launch angle + pace + rpm == trajectory |
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 40 Right. I do that kind of moonball, lol.
I mean just by comparing the videos, these guys hit more aggressively
or flatter than blacklodoss vs billtian.
【在 h******n 的大作中提到】
: this doesn't sound right, u can hit a slow flat ball without any spin and
: with a high trajectory.
:
: as
|
|
|
b*********s
发帖数: 6757 | 41 maybe the guy in blue... I don't think the guy in green is doing that. His
ball too have a high trajectory. The guy in blue may attack more cuz he does
not want to get into that type of grinding game with opponent, so he took
the initiative and tried to keep the opponent to follow his rhythm...
as
【在 K****D 的大作中提到】
: Topspin component == ball trajectory. I.e. avg net clearance not as high as
: you vs billtian.
: They grab any chance to attack, by angle or by pace. While you or billtian
: may not, may still hit another neutral shot. The reason they can't win
: point is that the ball pace is not fast enough comparing to defense skills.
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 42 Or I can say topspin componant == rpm/horizontal speed.
【在 h******n 的大作中提到】
: if you really want to dig into this:
: rpm == spin
: launch angle + pace + rpm == trajectory
|
K****D
发帖数: 30533 | 43 Yes, I would consider the green as the "pusher" of the two while the blue
as the "vionent male" of the two.
However both of them are violennt males to me. Not pusher enough.
does
【在 b*********s 的大作中提到】
: maybe the guy in blue... I don't think the guy in green is doing that. His
: ball too have a high trajectory. The guy in blue may attack more cuz he does
: not want to get into that type of grinding game with opponent, so he took
: the initiative and tried to keep the opponent to follow his rhythm...
:
: as
|
R**********2
发帖数: 179 | 44 在硬地放drop shot 一定要有很好的set up才好放， 像我儿子这种年龄的junior
player， 基本能跑到位 and save it.
周六在北加的NorCal Team training， 我儿子的对手一共放了两个drop shots, 我儿
子都跑到位，还赢了那两分。
Slice 也要小心用， 有人就等着那slice, get down and roll 出winner. |
