d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 1 1/2 nl.
我坐在10人桌中间偏后,about $1000 chip
hole cards, AcAs.
我前面所有人limp-in,我raised to $15，我后面的LAG(around $250) call$15,LAG后
面超tight的(around $200)call $15. all the others fold.
Flop:
2c4s10c
I raised to $20, LAG call $20, tight buddy re-raised to $60.
what should I do? |
d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 2 这是我当时的move，大家先不要看。。。
I all-ined, LAG folded. tight guy called.
he has 3c5c.
turn 6s......
5555555
我觉得我打得没错。。。可能他认为我有两张overcards想push他？
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 nl.
: 我坐在10人桌中间偏后,about $1000 chip
: hole cards, AcAs.
: 我前面所有人limp-in,我raised to $15，我后面的LAG(around $250) call$15,LAG后
: 面超tight的(around $200)call $15. all the others fold.
: Flop:
: 2c4s10c
: I raised to $20, LAG call $20, tight buddy re-raised to $60.
: what should I do?
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 3 你flop bet size太小($20 for $50+ pot)，有test或者naked AKo c-bet的嫌疑，可能
误导别人(它们可能犯错，但是其结果是伤害你自己，呵呵)。
当然在别人眼里你也有可能是trap，不过这个你自己清楚。
你拿着Ac，很大程度上减少了TAG那小子作flush的可能。
LAG和TAG筹码类似，所以也不存在你继续call to build pot，即使输给TAG，也可以赚
LAG sidepot的可能。
所以，你只能shove，赌TAG是QQ，JJ，AT之类的货色，输了也就是200。LAG不服想进来
也无所谓。
你$1000的筹码放在这样的小桌子上，倒是值得商榷，太容易给别人很好的implied
odds，不只是这把牌。
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 nl.
: 我坐在10人桌中间偏后,about $1000 chip
: hole cards, AcAs.
: 我前面所有人limp-in,我raised to $15，我后面的LAG(around $250) call$15,LAG后
: 面超tight的(around $200)call $15. all the others fold.
: Flop:
: 2c4s10c
: I raised to $20, LAG call $20, tight buddy re-raised to $60.
: what should I do?
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 4 没错，说明他一点不是“极tight”。玩小suited one gapper到这种程度的(call $15
pre-flop)，你得小心。
还是那句话，你桌子上钱过多了，而且flop bet太小，不足以给你给别人任何信息。你
要是bet 2/3 pot or pot ($50)，TAG shove的话，你可以有很大的概率比较放心的
fold掉，而LAG根本就不会进来(省了操心另一对手)，其结果省了钱。
他看自己15 outs，当然是favorite to win，针对你的over pair (unless it's TT)
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 这是我当时的move，大家先不要看。。。
: I all-ined, LAG folded. tight guy called.
: he has 3c5c.
: turn 6s......
: 5555555
: 我觉得我打得没错。。。可能他认为我有两张overcards想push他？
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 5 典型的semi-bluff,楼主手里有一个Ac,对方最多14outs,而且可以redraw,也就是说这个
情况下你应该是小favorite,all-in没错,当然如果碰到是set就郁闷了,如果你能确定他
是on draw,怎么也不该fold的
不过同意版主的,flop bet太小了....
15
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 没错，说明他一点不是“极tight”。玩小suited one gapper到这种程度的(call $15
: pre-flop)，你得小心。
: 还是那句话，你桌子上钱过多了，而且flop bet太小，不足以给你给别人任何信息。你
: 要是bet 2/3 pot or pot ($50)，TAG shove的话，你可以有很大的概率比较放心的
: fold掉，而LAG根本就不会进来(省了操心另一对手)，其结果省了钱。
: 他看自己15 outs，当然是favorite to win，针对你的over pair (unless it's TT)
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 在他的计算里面，不会把OP的Ac或者其他club计算在内的。
更正，重新算了一下，OP还是favorite, 55:45.
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: 典型的semi-bluff,楼主手里有一个Ac,对方最多14outs,而且可以redraw,也就是说这个
: 情况下你应该是小favorite,all-in没错,当然如果碰到是set就郁闷了,如果你能确定他
: 是on draw,怎么也不该fold的
: 不过同意版主的,flop bet太小了....
:
: 15
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 7 对,但是op的计算里面这种情况下面无非3种, set, monster draw (semi-bluff) pure
bluff, 2pairs基本不大可能,tight不会用T2,T4,42 call preflop的,set的话就比较郁
闷,所以这里关键还是要判断他拿set的可能性多大了,这个raise 60刀有点小,不是很像
set,因为set估计会怕flush draw, 这个odds flush draw不会fold的. 所以all-in应该
还是没啥错误的
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 在他的计算里面，不会把OP的Ac或者其他club计算在内的。
: 更正，重新算了一下，OP还是favorite, 55:45.
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 8 tight guy could have TT/KK/QQ. It's a tough call.
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 nl.
: 我坐在10人桌中间偏后,about $1000 chip
: hole cards, AcAs.
: 我前面所有人limp-in,我raised to $15，我后面的LAG(around $250) call$15,LAG后
: 面超tight的(around $200)call $15. all the others fold.
: Flop:
: 2c4s10c
: I raised to $20, LAG call $20, tight buddy re-raised to $60.
: what should I do?
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 9 weird hand. Your $20bet on the flop was too small. But his two calls are
both very bold. Not like a tight guy at all.
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 这是我当时的move，大家先不要看。。。
: I all-ined, LAG folded. tight guy called.
: he has 3c5c.
: turn 6s......
: 5555555
: 我觉得我打得没错。。。可能他认为我有两张overcards想push他？
|
n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 10 raise to 20 too weak a signal?
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 nl.
: 我坐在10人桌中间偏后,about $1000 chip
: hole cards, AcAs.
: 我前面所有人limp-in,我raised to $15，我后面的LAG(around $250) call$15,LAG后
: 面超tight的(around $200)call $15. all the others fold.
: Flop:
: 2c4s10c
: I raised to $20, LAG call $20, tight buddy re-raised to $60.
: what should I do?
|
|
|
n******n
发帖数: 12088 | 11 我觉得楼主可能被人当成bluffing了，阴差阳错。
15
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 没错，说明他一点不是“极tight”。玩小suited one gapper到这种程度的(call $15
: pre-flop)，你得小心。
: 还是那句话，你桌子上钱过多了，而且flop bet太小，不足以给你给别人任何信息。你
: 要是bet 2/3 pot or pot ($50)，TAG shove的话，你可以有很大的概率比较放心的
: fold掉，而LAG根本就不会进来(省了操心另一对手)，其结果省了钱。
: 他看自己15 outs，当然是favorite to win，针对你的over pair (unless it's TT)
|
i********r
发帖数: 1153 | 12 这么多，请客吧
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 nl.
: 我坐在10人桌中间偏后,about $1000 chip
: hole cards, AcAs.
: 我前面所有人limp-in,我raised to $15，我后面的LAG(around $250) call$15,LAG后
: 面超tight的(around $200)call $15. all the others fold.
: Flop:
: 2c4s10c
: I raised to $20, LAG call $20, tight buddy re-raised to $60.
: what should I do?
|
d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 13 $1000的chip是在之前buildup的
$20的bet是trap。。。。
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 你flop bet size太小($20 for $50+ pot)，有test或者naked AKo c-bet的嫌疑，可能
: 误导别人(它们可能犯错，但是其结果是伤害你自己，呵呵)。
: 当然在别人眼里你也有可能是trap，不过这个你自己清楚。
: 你拿着Ac，很大程度上减少了TAG那小子作flush的可能。
: LAG和TAG筹码类似，所以也不存在你继续call to build pot，即使输给TAG，也可以赚
: LAG sidepot的可能。
: 所以，你只能shove，赌TAG是QQ，JJ，AT之类的货色，输了也就是200。LAG不服想进来
: 也无所谓。
: 你$1000的筹码放在这样的小桌子上，倒是值得商榷，太容易给别人很好的implied
: odds，不只是这把牌。
|
d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 14 这把丢了$200呢..
【在 i********r 的大作中提到】
: 这么多，请客吧
|
c**********l
发帖数: 606 | 15 nothing wrong with the villain's play. semi-bluff with a very strong draw.
I would have done the same.
even if he is 45:55 vs. hero, he had much more than 10% fold equity.
and I would have folded if i were the hero. the villain could easily have a
set. only with evidence that the villain is capable of bluffing would I push
all-in.
as pointed out, the villain is not extremely tight, he called $15 with $200
with small suited one-gap.
I don't see anything wrong with the flop bet size.
what casin |
d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 16 venetian poker room.
.
a
push
200
【在 c**********l 的大作中提到】
: nothing wrong with the villain's play. semi-bluff with a very strong draw.
: I would have done the same.
: even if he is 45:55 vs. hero, he had much more than 10% fold equity.
: and I would have folded if i were the hero. the villain could easily have a
: set. only with evidence that the villain is capable of bluffing would I push
: all-in.
: as pointed out, the villain is not extremely tight, he called $15 with $200
: with small suited one-gap.
: I don't see anything wrong with the flop bet size.
: what casin
|
r****r
发帖数: 1394 | 17 preflop raise to 15 有点太少了，given there are several limpers，给小对子不
错的implied odds，在vegas感觉两张同花大牌和小对子都赶不走，只是build了一个比
较大的pot。flop之后已经保护不住了，AA扔不掉也没有办法，毕竟对手已经差不多
committed了，有set可能性不到1/8吧。
我也刚从vegas回来，小赢了一点。拿到两三次AA都是preflop解决战斗了。我发现他们
在每个street call的很松（1/2 & 1/3），像这种前边几个limper的，我看到
effective stack在200以上，我想大概有另两种打法，如果在第5，6位置，后边有agg
player，也limp，碰到后边有raise的，就是运气来了，否则就闭眼打到摊牌，如果
flop危险或者action很强也容易lay down。另外，如果后边人很怂爱limp，直接打到30
+，满足锅里那点钱了，当然碰到KK QQ
愿意拼一把很乐意，但是不给他比1:8更好的赔率。直接用数学能简单击败的对手我就
不愿意赌了。
lz看风格是喜欢tr
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: $1000的chip是在之前buildup的
: $20的bet是trap。。。。
|
r****r
发帖数: 1394 | 18 i played several hours in Bellagio and Rio, not very easy. i'll try your
recommendation next time.
.
a
push
200
【在 c**********l 的大作中提到】
: nothing wrong with the villain's play. semi-bluff with a very strong draw.
: I would have done the same.
: even if he is 45:55 vs. hero, he had much more than 10% fold equity.
: and I would have folded if i were the hero. the villain could easily have a
: set. only with evidence that the villain is capable of bluffing would I push
: all-in.
: as pointed out, the villain is not extremely tight, he called $15 with $200
: with small suited one-gap.
: I don't see anything wrong with the flop bet size.
: what casin
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 19 嗯，知道$1000是前面赢的，max buy-in也就300左右，只是拿着这么大stack在一群LAG
，TAG里面游荡，不是很合算，俗话说干煸油锅。到一定程度，可以考虑换换桌子，在
一张桌子久了，你研究别人，别人也都在研究你。
这牌trap有点悬，前面那么多limpers，几乎肯定有人拿着weak Ax见事不好扔掉了，所
以你基本上就是靠AA战斗下去了，牌变好的可能性几乎没有。
“TAG”进来，应该是个警钟，你应该试图搞清楚他想干什么，$20有点误导，很多人
missed flop的c-bet也会那么干。LAG跟，它再一medium size raise，实际上你给自己
制造了一个难题，因为你很难猜他有什么，这么trash的flop...而且你把LAG也拉了进
来，你考虑问题还多了一层因素。
呵呵，TAG是个假象，不过倒是有可能负负得正，让你以为他有set之类的而忍痛割爱了。
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: $1000的chip是在之前buildup的
: $20的bet是trap。。。。
|
c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 20 you can call and fold to a possible big turn or river bet.
You were out of position, so your bet size wasn't bad actually.
I would sometimes check with your hand to control
the pot size and induce a few bluffs from
aggressive players. It's not a shame to fold to a big turn or river
bet. Allin is quite wrong in this situation cause your opp is TAG,
so your ev is quite low here, with still about 125 behind, the TAG can
often fold a lot of top pair or over pair hands. However, if you play
against t
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 1/2 nl.
: 我坐在10人桌中间偏后,about $1000 chip
: hole cards, AcAs.
: 我前面所有人limp-in,我raised to $15，我后面的LAG(around $250) call$15,LAG后
: 面超tight的(around $200)call $15. all the others fold.
: Flop:
: 2c4s10c
: I raised to $20, LAG call $20, tight buddy re-raised to $60.
: what should I do?
|
|
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 21 tight guy played it correctly.
your AA is slightly behind against his 3c5c
if you do not have a pair, he is temporarily ahead, and you can not call,
and he wins the pot there. He need shove everything into pot on the turn to
make you lay down. On the river, he probably will lose.
I do the similar stuff online, open-ended plus one pair, if you shove, I
call.
even situation against big pair, but ahead against ak, aq. But I usually do
not get there. :<
【在 d**x 的大作中提到】
: 这是我当时的move，大家先不要看。。。
: I all-ined, LAG folded. tight guy called.
: he has 3c5c.
: turn 6s......
: 5555555
: 我觉得我打得没错。。。可能他认为我有两张overcards想push他？
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 22 I do think the flop betting is too small. The board is so scary, over pot size betting is correct, do not give them odds to call. And tag guy may just call there,
after turn, aa is so dead.
But in this case, if drax bet 60$ on the flop, lag will not call, tag will
allin any way.
maybe aa is hard to laydown there, because draw does not get there yet. And
set against overpair is typical swing in this game. and possible against jj
, qq , kk.
folding there is ok also, especially after testing water.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 你flop bet size太小($20 for $50+ pot)，有test或者naked AKo c-bet的嫌疑，可能
: 误导别人(它们可能犯错，但是其结果是伤害你自己，呵呵)。
: 当然在别人眼里你也有可能是trap，不过这个你自己清楚。
: 你拿着Ac，很大程度上减少了TAG那小子作flush的可能。
: LAG和TAG筹码类似，所以也不存在你继续call to build pot，即使输给TAG，也可以赚
: LAG sidepot的可能。
: 所以，你只能shove，赌TAG是QQ，JJ，AT之类的货色，输了也就是200。LAG不服想进来
: 也无所谓。
: 你$1000的筹码放在这样的小桌子上，倒是值得商榷，太容易给别人很好的implied
: odds，不只是这把牌。
|
d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 23 last time I was in Bally's, pretty good table.
sometimes you can easily figure out who is old shark or fish on the table..
vegas is a profitable place if you can live there..haha
.
a
push
200
【在 c**********l 的大作中提到】
: nothing wrong with the villain's play. semi-bluff with a very strong draw.
: I would have done the same.
: even if he is 45:55 vs. hero, he had much more than 10% fold equity.
: and I would have folded if i were the hero. the villain could easily have a
: set. only with evidence that the villain is capable of bluffing would I push
: all-in.
: as pointed out, the villain is not extremely tight, he called $15 with $200
: with small suited one-gap.
: I don't see anything wrong with the flop bet size.
: what casin
|
d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 24 那张桌子总体来看比较tight，一般$15是很大的raise....
这次碰到TAG这么call只能任栽...
agg
30
【在 r****r 的大作中提到】
: preflop raise to 15 有点太少了，given there are several limpers，给小对子不
: 错的implied odds，在vegas感觉两张同花大牌和小对子都赶不走，只是build了一个比
: 较大的pot。flop之后已经保护不住了，AA扔不掉也没有办法，毕竟对手已经差不多
: committed了，有set可能性不到1/8吧。
: 我也刚从vegas回来，小赢了一点。拿到两三次AA都是preflop解决战斗了。我发现他们
: 在每个street call的很松（1/2 & 1/3），像这种前边几个limper的，我看到
: effective stack在200以上，我想大概有另两种打法，如果在第5，6位置，后边有agg
: player，也limp，碰到后边有raise的，就是运气来了，否则就闭眼打到摊牌，如果
: flop危险或者action很强也容易lay down。另外，如果后边人很怂爱limp，直接打到30
: +，满足锅里那点钱了，当然碰到KK QQ
|
d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 25 Rio should be competitive cause WSOP is still influential...haha
【在 r****r 的大作中提到】
: i played several hours in Bellagio and Rio, not very easy. i'll try your
: recommendation next time.
:
: .
: a
: push
: 200
|
d**x
发帖数: 1934 | 26 这牌trap有点悬，前面那么多limpers，几乎肯定有人拿着weak Ax见事不好扔掉了，所
以你基本上就是靠AA战斗下去了，牌变好的可能性几乎没有。
这个我同意。。。我shove是因为以前push过几次这个TAG比较有成效才这样
LAG
了。
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，知道$1000是前面赢的，max buy-in也就300左右，只是拿着这么大stack在一群LAG
: ，TAG里面游荡，不是很合算，俗话说干煸油锅。到一定程度，可以考虑换换桌子，在
: 一张桌子久了，你研究别人，别人也都在研究你。
: 这牌trap有点悬，前面那么多limpers，几乎肯定有人拿着weak Ax见事不好扔掉了，所
: 以你基本上就是靠AA战斗下去了，牌变好的可能性几乎没有。
: “TAG”进来，应该是个警钟，你应该试图搞清楚他想干什么，$20有点误导，很多人
: missed flop的c-bet也会那么干。LAG跟，它再一medium size raise，实际上你给自己
: 制造了一个难题，因为你很难猜他有什么，这么trash的flop...而且你把LAG也拉了进
: 来，你考虑问题还多了一层因素。
: 呵呵，TAG是个假象，不过倒是有可能负负得正，让你以为他有set之类的而忍痛割爱了。
|
v*****e
发帖数: 497 | 27 can not blame anybody.
you did not raise enough on the flop, and preflop,
there is not enough information for you. buddy. |
s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 28 Preflop $15 bet is little low for venetian tables, given LZ's description of
how his table plays. After flop, unless LZ check first, the TAG might bet
$40-50. What will/should LZ do at this point? I say this was a case of bad
luck. Since LZ has $1000 at the table, must be lucky there. To bad you
luck left you for a moment. I like venetian poker rooms, only for cash game
. |
s*********r
发帖数: 4210 | 29 I agree with you on preflop, but on the after flop. That TAG guy was pushed
by LZ couple times before, and he picked this hand to stand up to LZ. no
matter how much LZ bets after flop, it is a reraise automatically. The more
LZ bets after flop, the easier for TAG to shove.
【在 v*****e 的大作中提到】
: can not blame anybody.
: you did not raise enough on the flop, and preflop,
: there is not enough information for you. buddy.
|
