D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 1 "He rewrite the poker history".
这是ESPN评论员在Cada 夺冠之后的第一句话。
是的，这个21岁的年轻人一举打破上届Eastgate创造的记录，成为最年轻的WSOP ME冠
军获得者
我看了最终桌的录像，不可否认，Cada运气好到极点，两次Small pair Vs Big pair
的 1：4逆转，多次关键时刻来AA，AK并且Hold,还有数次Flip Coin的获胜。
但是这个小孩不可小觑之处有两点：
第一，他一度chip落后至1％，仅仅几个BB，但他居然能惊天大逆转
第二，有一手牌，他在9 2 10 10的牌面，手持J 9 middle pair，call了Moon的Sim -
Bluff All in,不能不说这是一手Amazing Call
尽管Moon这手有Over aggressive之嫌，拿着 Open － ended Draw在 Turn的时候 All
in，而且当时Moon的筹码还很多，pot并没有大到值得这样做的程度。
就评这一手Call，Cada证明了自己的冠军实力。
其实最后Moon明显有些on tilt, 也许是自己的am |
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 2 尽管Moon这手有Over aggressive之嫌，拿着 Open － ended Draw在 Turn的时候 All
in，而且当时Moon的筹码还很多，pot并没有大到值得这样做的程度。 |
h****h
发帖数: 1168 | 3 the true headup play is not in the tape.
there's a phase, moon is leading 3:1,
but one pot #346, raise-reraise preflop, cada all in, moon folds.
that hand changed everything, moon lost his control after that.
here's the hand:
Joe Cada has the button. He sticks out 3 million again, and Moon has three-
betting on his mind. Eight million is his standard three-bet, and that's
what he makes it this time too. We haven't seen a four-bet from Cada in this
spot yet, but he appears to be contemplating som
【在 D*A 的大作中提到】
: "He rewrite the poker history".
: 这是ESPN评论员在Cada 夺冠之后的第一句话。
: 是的，这个21岁的年轻人一举打破上届Eastgate创造的记录，成为最年轻的WSOP ME冠
: 军获得者
: 我看了最终桌的录像，不可否认，Cada运气好到极点，两次Small pair Vs Big pair
: 的 1：4逆转，多次关键时刻来AA，AK并且Hold,还有数次Flip Coin的获胜。
: 但是这个小孩不可小觑之处有两点：
: 第一，他一度chip落后至1％，仅仅几个BB，但他居然能惊天大逆转
: 第二，有一手牌，他在9 2 10 10的牌面，手持J 9 middle pair，call了Moon的Sim -
: Bluff All in,不能不说这是一手Amazing Call
|
h****h
发帖数: 1168 | 4 one thing:
unless u go pro, u don't know the huge difference btw 1st and 2nd, so he
might not care that much at all.
that's my feeling from his calling all in with AQ vs AK, KJ vs Ax,
but he won all these hands.
All
the
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: 尽管Moon这手有Over aggressive之嫌，拿着 Open － ended Draw在 Turn的时候 All
: in，而且当时Moon的筹码还很多，pot并没有大到值得这样做的程度。
|
D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 5 不得不说，那一手flop all in 要比turn好不少，turn出了 pair 10,
Cada 就有理由判断moon没有10，而且Cada只是bet了3M,此时突然 All in，
拿着低端顺子Draw在有pair的牌面All in，太不专业
Moon似乎不是为了抢pot，而更多的是为了趁自己chip cover 对手gamble一把
但我觉得Moon此时Allin ，应该是expect 对手fold的
All
the
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: 尽管Moon这手有Over aggressive之嫌，拿着 Open － ended Draw在 Turn的时候 All
: in，而且当时Moon的筹码还很多，pot并没有大到值得这样做的程度。
|
h****h
发帖数: 1168 | 6 his most sick one includes:
KQ overbet on board 234, and fold to 5m all in for a 35m pot.
and then he lied to his wife that he was holding Qs.
【在 h****h 的大作中提到】
: one thing:
: unless u go pro, u don't know the huge difference btw 1st and 2nd, so he
: might not care that much at all.
: that's my feeling from his calling all in with AQ vs AK, KJ vs Ax,
: but he won all these hands.
:
: All
: the
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 7 我觉得这个allin和最后那个call allin是比较糟糕。这手其实turn上raise也行，反而
像有trip ten。
【在 D*A 的大作中提到】
: 不得不说，那一手flop all in 要比turn好不少，turn出了 pair 10,
: Cada 就有理由判断moon没有10，而且Cada只是bet了3M,此时突然 All in，
: 拿着低端顺子Draw在有pair的牌面All in，太不专业
: Moon似乎不是为了抢pot，而更多的是为了趁自己chip cover 对手gamble一把
: 但我觉得Moon此时Allin ，应该是expect 对手fold的
:
: All
: the
|
l******1
发帖数: 365 | 8 where can i find phil hellmuth's comment?
All
the
or play very few HU games.
ME冠
pair
Sim
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: 尽管Moon这手有Over aggressive之嫌，拿着 Open － ended Draw在 Turn的时候 All
: in，而且当时Moon的筹码还很多，pot并没有大到值得这样做的程度。
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 9 I listened it live.
He tells if Moon really want to bluff, he can call 3M, and bet 10M on the
river. It is fine, but not the best option.
I guess play it straight forward would be better.
3M call, the pot is very tiny at that time, and fold the river if do not hit.
【在 l******1 的大作中提到】
: where can i find phil hellmuth's comment?
:
: All
: the
: or play very few HU games.
: ME冠
: pair
: Sim
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 10 The pot is so small, less than 10 million, the turn bet also very small,
only 3M. however, cada still have 45M left. why bet allin?
【在 h*******s 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得这个allin和最后那个call allin是比较糟糕。这手其实turn上raise也行，反而
: 像有trip ten。
|
|
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 11 the true headup play is not in the tape.
there's a phase, moon is leading 3:1,
but one pot #346, raise-reraise preflop, cada all in, moon folds.
that hand changed everything, moon lost his control after that. |
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 12 Should say he is very amateur on poker.
overbet allin in a tiny pot, without a hand.
Call 70bb(all his chips) allin with Q high.
【在 h****h 的大作中提到】
: one thing:
: unless u go pro, u don't know the huge difference btw 1st and 2nd, so he
: might not care that much at all.
: that's my feeling from his calling all in with AQ vs AK, KJ vs Ax,
: but he won all these hands.
:
: All
: the
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 13 if you wana to bluff. 10M has the same effect as 50M, why bet 50M.
If he has the 10, he goes allin, maybe it is good play, because HU player
likes to think you are bluffing, and calls with worse hand.
【在 D*A 的大作中提到】
: 不得不说，那一手flop all in 要比turn好不少，turn出了 pair 10,
: Cada 就有理由判断moon没有10，而且Cada只是bet了3M,此时突然 All in，
: 拿着低端顺子Draw在有pair的牌面All in，太不专业
: Moon似乎不是为了抢pot，而更多的是为了趁自己chip cover 对手gamble一把
: 但我觉得Moon此时Allin ，应该是expect 对手fold的
:
: All
: the
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 14 10M has better effect than 50M most of time. but.....
sometimes your opponent will think one more layer (overthink): why does he
push allin? that means he doesn't have a 10 and probably is on a draw. wait
a moment, he must know I can figure this out, so he could indeed have a 10..
And if Cada thinks this way (I'm sure he thought about this possibility) and
is convinced, he will fold. And if Cada doesn't, Moon still has 8 outs (
turns out to be 7 outs), hehe.
so if Moon's image is not ABC poker b
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: if you wana to bluff. 10M has the same effect as 50M, why bet 50M.
: If he has the 10, he goes allin, maybe it is good play, because HU player
: likes to think you are bluffing, and calls with worse hand.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 Donkey vs donkey on head-up. This final table is not about poker skill. It
is all about gambling. When you reraise 30+bb all in with pocket 3s, 2s
preflop. you are not playing poker. You are gambling. Because the best odds
you can have is 50%. I don't know how they got here, but the final table is
so poorly played that it is a disgrace to poker. Cada is the biggest donk on
the final table. |
l******n
发帖数: 641 | 16 hoho, funny.
u think u can only play premium cards with 2m chips on the final table?
It
odds
is
on
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Donkey vs donkey on head-up. This final table is not about poker skill. It
: is all about gambling. When you reraise 30+bb all in with pocket 3s, 2s
: preflop. you are not playing poker. You are gambling. Because the best odds
: you can have is 50%. I don't know how they got here, but the final table is
: so poorly played that it is a disgrace to poker. Cada is the biggest donk on
: the final table.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 17 Is there only one way to play non-premium hand by all in +30bb? It doesn't
matter how big is the blind. It only matters what is the stack/bb. It is
still deep stack game with more than 30 bb left. There is plenty of game
left. There is no need to push all in with pocket 3s. They can lose their
patience to gamble, but it does not make it a correct play. |
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 18 100bb才是deep stack吧,30bb 基本算short stack了
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Is there only one way to play non-premium hand by all in +30bb? It doesn't
: matter how big is the blind. It only matters what is the stack/bb. It is
: still deep stack game with more than 30 bb left. There is plenty of game
: left. There is no need to push all in with pocket 3s. They can lose their
: patience to gamble, but it does not make it a correct play.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 19 This is so true. There is no need to bluff a 13 million pot
with 45million chips. raise to 8million and continuation bets river with 1/3
or half pot is probably more effective.
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: The pot is so small, less than 10 million, the turn bet also very small,
: only 3M. however, cada still have 45M left. why bet allin?
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 20 30bb in touney is plenty as deep stack. for cash game maybe it is short.
When Cada and Sauot went all in with two pocket pairs, Cada had more than
50bb iirc.
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: 100bb才是deep stack吧,30bb 基本算short stack了
|
|
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 21 嗯,不过可能打到这个阶段,2个人都头脑发热? 这个真在台上可能感觉不一样
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 30bb in touney is plenty as deep stack. for cash game maybe it is short.
: When Cada and Sauot went all in with two pocket pairs, Cada had more than
: 50bb iirc.
|
m******t
发帖数: 2416 | 22 I kind of had the same feeling - well probably except
the "disgrace" part. I mean not that bad, but there
was certainly an abundance of overbetting and calling
station.
It
odds
is
on
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Donkey vs donkey on head-up. This final table is not about poker skill. It
: is all about gambling. When you reraise 30+bb all in with pocket 3s, 2s
: preflop. you are not playing poker. You are gambling. Because the best odds
: you can have is 50%. I don't know how they got here, but the final table is
: so poorly played that it is a disgrace to poker. Cada is the biggest donk on
: the final table.
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 23 if the Hu is played by 2 pros. The HU part can go up to 14 hours, consider
how deep the stack is.(except the insane flop, 2 full house bump each other.)
watch sammy farha vs ted forest HU, it contains 20+ allins. In the end, I
guess everyone has less than 10BB(because the blinds goes up).
And ivey's longest final table is 20+ hours.
【在 m******t 的大作中提到】
: I kind of had the same feeling - well probably except
: the "disgrace" part. I mean not that bad, but there
: was certainly an abundance of overbetting and calling
: station.
:
: It
: odds
: is
: on
|
P*******s
发帖数: 1777 | 24 终于看完了比赛，同意你的看法，cada和moon的运气都特别好。
有一点我想补充一下，那就是Cada的最后的心理战术运用的非常成功。 在交谈的过程
中，Cada故意示
弱。这也直接导致了moon的bluff(也就是你说的下面这手牌）。
-
【在 D*A 的大作中提到】
: "He rewrite the poker history".
: 这是ESPN评论员在Cada 夺冠之后的第一句话。
: 是的，这个21岁的年轻人一举打破上届Eastgate创造的记录，成为最年轻的WSOP ME冠
: 军获得者
: 我看了最终桌的录像，不可否认，Cada运气好到极点，两次Small pair Vs Big pair
: 的 1：4逆转，多次关键时刻来AA，AK并且Hold,还有数次Flip Coin的获胜。
: 但是这个小孩不可小觑之处有两点：
: 第一，他一度chip落后至1％，仅仅几个BB，但他居然能惊天大逆转
: 第二，有一手牌，他在9 2 10 10的牌面，手持J 9 middle pair，call了Moon的Sim -
: Bluff All in,不能不说这是一手Amazing Call
|
h****a
发帖数: 5058 | 25 请问哪里有看？
All
the
【在 y********n 的大作中提到】
: 尽管Moon这手有Over aggressive之嫌，拿着 Open － ended Draw在 Turn的时候 All
: in，而且当时Moon的筹码还很多，pot并没有大到值得这样做的程度。
|
n**********5
发帖数: 60 | 26 Are you guys kidding? The whole WSOP main events are full of donks. Thats
why tournament are called donkaments. And WSOP main event is a huge luck
fest. Luck is the most important factor in one single tournaments.
By the way, both Moon and Cada are huge donks. Can't believe anyone would
think they play well. If you want to learn how to play, watch and analysis
Ivey's play.
LOL... |
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 27 have u watched how cada or any of these "donks" played from hand 1 to final
hand? if not, how can they be huge donks? or in another word, donkier than you?
to win in a 6800 players field, luck is important for sure, but i wouldn't
say something like "full of donks", because it lacks the basic respect for a
lot of good players, many of whom finished pretty decently.
Thats
analysis
【在 n**********5 的大作中提到】
: Are you guys kidding? The whole WSOP main events are full of donks. Thats
: why tournament are called donkaments. And WSOP main event is a huge luck
: fest. Luck is the most important factor in one single tournaments.
: By the way, both Moon and Cada are huge donks. Can't believe anyone would
: think they play well. If you want to learn how to play, watch and analysis
: Ivey's play.
: LOL...
|
n**********5
发帖数: 60 | 28 Yes, WSOP main event is full of donks. And there is not much skill involved
. Any pro would say the same thing. They play to avoid the "land mines" -
amateurs or recreational players making retarded plays. The problem is when
playing in such a big field, you need to be "lucky", not "skillful" to not
get knocked out by dumb plays, bad beats, or cooler hands. At most 5% skill
and 95% is luck.
Are there good players? Sure, but 90%+ are donks. And yes, both Cada and Moon are donkier than me. |
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 29 Moon is much more skillful than he appears. The hand he try to bluff off AKs
with his KQ was spot on the reads. It was also a close call on odds whether
to call or not that last 6 million chips. Cada, I didn't see any good plays
on TV other than the call bluff, which could be a huge donkey call if moon
does have a 10. |
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 30 At least most of top players(no matter online players or live big cash pros)
in that tournament. It does need a lot of luck to win the tourney, but that
does not garantee you do not need skills there.
It is softer than wcoop(10k buyin tourney) and wsop 5k buyin tourny, and WPT
events.
But that does not mean 90% are donks.
I guess only Moon is amateur on the FT. other buddies are all very strong.
cada plays 25/50 level HU everyday. several guys enters WPT final table this
year. The England truck
【在 n**********5 的大作中提到】
: Yes, WSOP main event is full of donks. And there is not much skill involved
: . Any pro would say the same thing. They play to avoid the "land mines" -
: amateurs or recreational players making retarded plays. The problem is when
: playing in such a big field, you need to be "lucky", not "skillful" to not
: get knocked out by dumb plays, bad beats, or cooler hands. At most 5% skill
: and 95% is luck.
: Are there good players? Sure, but 90%+ are donks. And yes, both Cada and Moon are donkier than me.
|
|
|
f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 31 care to share some of expr here? and if you don't mind, player ID?
it's rare to have a high stake player here (zhigang was one before, 100/200L
), and we appreciate more details than just comments, thanks a lot!
involved
-
when
not
skill
Moon are donkier than me. And yes, I play at a pro level.
【在 n**********5 的大作中提到】
: Yes, WSOP main event is full of donks. And there is not much skill involved
: . Any pro would say the same thing. They play to avoid the "land mines" -
: amateurs or recreational players making retarded plays. The problem is when
: playing in such a big field, you need to be "lucky", not "skillful" to not
: get knocked out by dumb plays, bad beats, or cooler hands. At most 5% skill
: and 95% is luck.
: Are there good players? Sure, but 90%+ are donks. And yes, both Cada and Moon are donkier than me.
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 32 If you play NL5000 level, you are semi pro already.
I guess you need be regular on 5/10 to play NL5000 occasionally.
involved
-
when
not
skill
Moon are donkier than me. And yes, I play at a pro level.
【在 n**********5 的大作中提到】
: Yes, WSOP main event is full of donks. And there is not much skill involved
: . Any pro would say the same thing. They play to avoid the "land mines" -
: amateurs or recreational players making retarded plays. The problem is when
: playing in such a big field, you need to be "lucky", not "skillful" to not
: get knocked out by dumb plays, bad beats, or cooler hands. At most 5% skill
: and 95% is luck.
: Are there good players? Sure, but 90%+ are donks. And yes, both Cada and Moon are donkier than me.
|
