TexasHoldem版 - A couple hands played in live game, need opinions |
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T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 1 As I said, I went to Sands PA played live game.
NL 2/5. Playing medium stack for $300 buy-in
Hand 1:
1. After a couple hands, stack down to $195. Had the button, dealt 7h5h,
Seat 4 raised to $20, Seat 5 called, folded to me. I called $20, a loose
call for sure, but I think I had the position, if a good flop comes, I may
score big.
Flop 3h 7s Qh, Original raiser C-bet for $25, a weakish bet considering the
action going on so far, Seat 5 raised to $75. Action to me, I have a middle
pair and a flus | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 2 do you want to hear our condolence or do you want to hear real suggestion?
the condolence will make your feel really good. The real suggestion is going to be harsh even though it can make you a better poker player. | p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 3
the
middle
yes, i will never call, you put more than 10% of your stack in, with 75s,
unless you are much much much better than the other players on this table,
it's definitely a -EV play
possiblity
你才30个bb,你要喜欢玩35s这种牌, 先保证你有big implied odds, at least 100bb,
200bb or more is better, 还有你flop可以raise 大点, 看你描述是总共3个人? 那么
你raise到65, 给的pot odd是 40 to 92 or 1.2.25, 对set来说是个easy call, 即使
他怀疑你是天顺. 这个牌就是看运气,set和straigh都不可能fold, 2pairs call 你的
turn有点margin
to
the
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: As I said, I went to Sands PA played live game.
: NL 2/5. Playing medium stack for $300 buy-in
: Hand 1:
: 1. After a couple hands, stack down to $195. Had the button, dealt 7h5h,
: Seat 4 raised to $20, Seat 5 called, folded to me. I called $20, a loose
: call for sure, but I think I had the position, if a good flop comes, I may
: score big.
: Flop 3h 7s Qh, Original raiser C-bet for $25, a weakish bet considering the
: action going on so far, Seat 5 raised to $75. Action to me, I have a middle
: pair and a flus
| T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 4 I didn't see your real suggestion. And I don't feel that anything you say
will make me feel really good or really bad.
I never think of myself a really good poker player, even among those playing
poker for recreation. The fun of playing poker to me is winning of course,
or if I can't win, I can learn sth from it. That is why I post my hand
history and want to listen to opinions from group of ppl have same interest.
Every poker player has ego. A lot of ppl think they are better player than
they r
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: do you want to hear our condolence or do you want to hear real suggestion?
: the condolence will make your feel really good. The real suggestion is going to be harsh even though it can make you a better poker player.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 5 i have no ego. I know my limits (you are so right on that few people do).. but i was only surprised that you gain nothing from our
previous discussion on how to play suited connector on Friday...deeply surprised.... what else suggestion do you want us to say when you starting preflop on the wrong foot? "I am sorry that you got lucky to flop a straight but got unlucky to get sucked out on river?" And I can totally provide that if you simply just want condolence.
knowing those basics prove no | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 6 半夜三更两毛驴辩论，引来第三只毛驴，呵呵。
. but i was only surprised that you gain nothing from our
surprised.... what else suggestion do you want us to say when you starting
preflop on the wrong foot? "I am sorry that you got lucky to flop a
straight but got unlucky to get sucked out on river?" And I can totally
provide that if you simply just want condolence.
except that i know some of the fundamentals...Maybe it is your own attitude
towards poker that is preventing you from learning these basics. And you
kn
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: i have no ego. I know my limits (you are so right on that few people do).. but i was only surprised that you gain nothing from our
: previous discussion on how to play suited connector on Friday...deeply surprised.... what else suggestion do you want us to say when you starting preflop on the wrong foot? "I am sorry that you got lucky to flop a straight but got unlucky to get sucked out on river?" And I can totally provide that if you simply just want condolence.
: knowing those basics prove no
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 7 小鱼飘过
attitude
how
$
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: 半夜三更两毛驴辩论，引来第三只毛驴，呵呵。
:
: . but i was only surprised that you gain nothing from our
: surprised.... what else suggestion do you want us to say when you starting
: preflop on the wrong foot? "I am sorry that you got lucky to flop a
: straight but got unlucky to get sucked out on river?" And I can totally
: provide that if you simply just want condolence.
: except that i know some of the fundamentals...Maybe it is your own attitude
: towards poker that is preventing you from learning these basics. And you
: kn
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 8 看来都比较背，至少应该有一把能赢的。
你和对手风格对上了，比如67o那把，就是loose对loose了。
如果你只打算60BB以下short buy in的话，俺觉得你三把flop应该更强些，直接shove/
re-shove，3个flop基本上都是你能指望的最好flop了，bet不上不下的数目缺少fold
equity，hit不hit你后面都非常难受，投资已经过大。
而且如果3把都是在一张桌子上出现的话，可能有油条已经注意到这个趋势，有换装备
的必要。
总体上，俺觉得如果你要pre-flop loose的话，后面一定要搏，否则前松后“正常”，
缺乏连贯性。
Ed Miller总结得好，small SCs make small flushes/str8s，所以光靠hit本身并
不足以赢利，要增加逼迫对手fold的力量/位置的力量，才能总体占上风。
俺个人认为，越先出手，越有可能让比如over pair, TPTK, 2 pairs这样的牌(你的
潜在主要客户)和你拼shove，这样你总体赢率上占优。如果动手晚了，出现scary
card而stop action，你前面的铺垫可能会有相当
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: As I said, I went to Sands PA played live game.
: NL 2/5. Playing medium stack for $300 buy-in
: Hand 1:
: 1. After a couple hands, stack down to $195. Had the button, dealt 7h5h,
: Seat 4 raised to $20, Seat 5 called, folded to me. I called $20, a loose
: call for sure, but I think I had the position, if a good flop comes, I may
: score big.
: Flop 3h 7s Qh, Original raiser C-bet for $25, a weakish bet considering the
: action going on so far, Seat 5 raised to $75. Action to me, I have a middle
: pair and a flus
| v*****e
发帖数: 497 | 9 I am sorry. I dont understand.If you can not play with suited connected
cards in bottom, wut should we play?
I thought most of the hands above are bad beat, small odds beat big odds.
I dont understand, how tight should we be in a full ring game.
Btw, this is live game, and i think it should be different from the strategy
online?
I am not a noob, but i dont know how to select a start hand. I know some
basic rules, but if it is live game, you may only get one of two playable
hand in one hour... an
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: i have no ego. I know my limits (you are so right on that few people do).. but i was only surprised that you gain nothing from our
: previous discussion on how to play suited connector on Friday...deeply surprised.... what else suggestion do you want us to say when you starting preflop on the wrong foot? "I am sorry that you got lucky to flop a straight but got unlucky to get sucked out on river?" And I can totally provide that if you simply just want condolence.
: knowing those basics prove no
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 10 I never said not to play suited connectors. I just said not to put too much
into the pot preflop especially when you are short stacked. Just make sure
you have the implied odds. implied odds is the same on-line or live. Don't
call off 1/10th with 56s just because it is live. That is just silly.
Actually hand 2 is ok but it would be much nicer to have a full stack.
Hand 3 is tricky. For some table, it might be better to raise and get some
fold equity after flop. But most of the time when you kno
【在 v*****e 的大作中提到】
: I am sorry. I dont understand.If you can not play with suited connected
: cards in bottom, wut should we play?
: I thought most of the hands above are bad beat, small odds beat big odds.
: I dont understand, how tight should we be in a full ring game.
: Btw, this is live game, and i think it should be different from the strategy
: online?
: I am not a noob, but i dont know how to select a start hand. I know some
: basic rules, but if it is live game, you may only get one of two playable
: hand in one hour... an
| | | v*****e
发帖数: 497 | 11 GOod , i see you point.
But about hand 2, there was once I hand a similar hand in 1-2 live table. I
limped with 57s on bottom -1, flop 6,8,9 two spades btw i had 330 in stack.
I raised to 25, and the bottom reraise to 75, he was not tight on the table,
i thinked for a while, and shoved all in since he still had about 200 in
stack, he immediately called and said "I have the nuts".
I felt dizzy at that moment...so I lost all my chips to a higher straight on
the flop. Anything wrong with me? Did I
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I never said not to play suited connectors. I just said not to put too much
: into the pot preflop especially when you are short stacked. Just make sure
: you have the implied odds. implied odds is the same on-line or live. Don't
: call off 1/10th with 56s just because it is live. That is just silly.
: Actually hand 2 is ok but it would be much nicer to have a full stack.
: Hand 3 is tricky. For some table, it might be better to raise and get some
: fold equity after flop. But most of the time when you kno
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 12 I don't think anyone can get away with this hand with 150Xbb. you have a
flush draw and a made straight. including all 2 pair sets made straight,
you are still ahead of the range.
but i do want to say is that when you have deeper stack like 300bb+ deep, be
really careful. People's calling range and push range are a lot tighter
when they are deep. Sometimes it is not a good idea to go into a raising
war with them when you are not holding the nuts. Remember that a lot of hands
do go to show-d
【在 v*****e 的大作中提到】
: GOod , i see you point.
: But about hand 2, there was once I hand a similar hand in 1-2 live table. I
: limped with 57s on bottom -1, flop 6,8,9 two spades btw i had 330 in stack.
: I raised to 25, and the bottom reraise to 75, he was not tight on the table,
: i thinked for a while, and shoved all in since he still had about 200 in
: stack, he immediately called and said "I have the nuts".
: I felt dizzy at that moment...so I lost all my chips to a higher straight on
: the flop. Anything wrong with me? Did I
| v*****e
发帖数: 497 | 13 no I didn't have flush draw. 75suited, but not spades. But I think I may
still need to pay him off, since he bluffed and failed several times before
this hand~
be
hands
wrong with that.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I don't think anyone can get away with this hand with 150Xbb. you have a
: flush draw and a made straight. including all 2 pair sets made straight,
: you are still ahead of the range.
: but i do want to say is that when you have deeper stack like 300bb+ deep, be
: really careful. People's calling range and push range are a lot tighter
: when they are deep. Sometimes it is not a good idea to go into a raising
: war with them when you are not holding the nuts. Remember that a lot of hands
: do go to show-d
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 14 it's fine.
last time when i was in DE park, two guys went all in on 235r flop too, one
had A4o, and the other old man (who just joined the table with a big stack)
laughed, "i call, sure"...
$1000+ in, and he got 46o.
I
.
table,
on
is
【在 v*****e 的大作中提到】
: GOod , i see you point.
: But about hand 2, there was once I hand a similar hand in 1-2 live table. I
: limped with 57s on bottom -1, flop 6,8,9 two spades btw i had 330 in stack.
: I raised to 25, and the bottom reraise to 75, he was not tight on the table,
: i thinked for a while, and shoved all in since he still had about 200 in
: stack, he immediately called and said "I have the nuts".
: I felt dizzy at that moment...so I lost all my chips to a higher straight on
: the flop. Anything wrong with me? Did I
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 500+bb for a small straight. I don't know man. If you are holding the same
pay-off attidude playing 500bb stack as holding 100bb stack, I think you
will lose them all sooner or later.
phil ivey lost huge deep stack all in pot to durr with A5 to 56 before with
234 on the board too. but it is durr on the other side of the table who can
push with draws and trash. How many durr are we facing on our table? if
someone is raising 500bb all in, i will give him the benifit of doubt of
having the nuts
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: it's fine.
: last time when i was in DE park, two guys went all in on 235r flop too, one
: had A4o, and the other old man (who just joined the table with a big stack)
: laughed, "i call, sure"...
: $1000+ in, and he got 46o.
:
: I
: .
: table,
: on
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 16 tough hand in live, the loser was pretty aggressive and the old man is
unknown new player to the table (who was still stacking his chips).
with 4-betting "high" action on the flop, i deeply doubt either one would
lay down on later streets at all for $500 effective stack. the only thing
might slow them down was paired turn or river, but none of these happened
eventually.
with
can
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: 500+bb for a small straight. I don't know man. If you are holding the same
: pay-off attidude playing 500bb stack as holding 100bb stack, I think you
: will lose them all sooner or later.
: phil ivey lost huge deep stack all in pot to durr with A5 to 56 before with
: 234 on the board too. but it is durr on the other side of the table who can
: push with draws and trash. How many durr are we facing on our table? if
: someone is raising 500bb all in, i will give him the benifit of doubt of
: having the nuts
| g**s
发帖数: 1114 | 17 Bad play if there is no pre-flop action. any thing is possible for limpin
pot.
one
)
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: it's fine.
: last time when i was in DE park, two guys went all in on 235r flop too, one
: had A4o, and the other old man (who just joined the table with a big stack)
: laughed, "i call, sure"...
: $1000+ in, and he got 46o.
:
: I
: .
: table,
: on
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 18 well, i don't really blame them for having nuts and 2nd nuts on this flop,
lol, and after midnight with a few drinks. honestly, i doubt if i myself can
do much differently at all, maybe not as strong on flop with A4o, but most
likely all money will go in on the blank high card turn.
this is not even the biggest pot i saw in live 1/2NL. one time a dealer in
AC complained that some guy only tipped her $5 in a $6000 pot!!! yes, i
repeat, 1/2NL, and $6000 pot, the whole table was full of chips and i
【在 g**s 的大作中提到】
: Bad play if there is no pre-flop action. any thing is possible for limpin
: pot.
:
: one
: )
| T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 19 I haven't said what happend to my hands yet.
1. For hand 1, I hit flush draw and one mid pair on the flop. Even agaist
any over pairs, I am about even money.
Original raise c-bet $35, the other guy made move raised to $75. I shoved
the remaining $150, original raiser quickly folded and the other guy tanked
for 2 mins and called. He turned over K9o with complete air. He had four
outs because his K, 9 outs can't be my flush card. Unfortunately he hit non-
flush K on the turn and took down the pot. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 20 Do you remember you mentioned that "A lot of ppl think they are better
player than they really are"?
I realized that you think yourself a better player than I think of myself by
far... Keep it up man. You are doing great.
P.S. There is no need to read books for tilt and bankroll management. Just
use common sense. | | | D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 21 i agree you got to pay. just wondering is it an overshove?
i mean even you shove,
you can not stop him if he had Set,Combo-Draw or Str anyway
After he raise to 75$,he is unlikely to have FD
(which he would happy to call as normal live player)
If he is capable of making such raise-bluffing, any reraise will shut him
off
now the situation is:if you are behind already,
he will for sure call any re-reraise,you got to pay.
if you are still adhead,
【在 v*****e 的大作中提到】
: GOod , i see you point.
: But about hand 2, there was once I hand a similar hand in 1-2 live table. I
: limped with 57s on bottom -1, flop 6,8,9 two spades btw i had 330 in stack.
: I raised to 25, and the bottom reraise to 75, he was not tight on the table,
: i thinked for a while, and shoved all in since he still had about 200 in
: stack, he immediately called and said "I have the nuts".
: I felt dizzy at that moment...so I lost all my chips to a higher straight on
: the flop. Anything wrong with me? Did I
| T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 22 I am not a really good player. Period. I can think rationally half of the
time but I still tilt a lot. After a couple bad beat, my game will become
wild open. I am much better now than say half years ago. But still have big
problem on bankroll control and tilting. Sometime I become too loose.Not
enough disipline.
One thing you and Fryking can do but I can't is you guys be able to grind
out those smaller stakes and be able to accept small but steady profit. End
of year it is actually a lot. I am
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: Do you remember you mentioned that "A lot of ppl think they are better
: player than they really are"?
: I realized that you think yourself a better player than I think of myself by
: far... Keep it up man. You are doing great.
: P.S. There is no need to read books for tilt and bankroll management. Just
: use common sense.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 23 I am going to be harsh one more time.. I am sorry if i offend you, but bear
with me. I am only trying to help. If you don't like it, just ignore it.
skill wise all put aside because I really don't see it relevant here. Your
problem is that you don't know why you suck and you refuse to plug any of
those obvious leaks. Every time when you focus on bad beat and bad runs
and blame everything on your tilting and ftp random number generator, you just fall one more step
into mediocracy. I have seen en
【在 T*********k 的大作中提到】
: I am not a really good player. Period. I can think rationally half of the
: time but I still tilt a lot. After a couple bad beat, my game will become
: wild open. I am much better now than say half years ago. But still have big
: problem on bankroll control and tilting. Sometime I become too loose.Not
: enough disipline.
: One thing you and Fryking can do but I can't is you guys be able to grind
: out those smaller stakes and be able to accept small but steady profit. End
: of year it is actually a lot. I am
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 24 And one more reality check.
No one person that cold call 1/10th stack preflop with 57s is a better player
than me, because I simply am not that bad.... | T*********k
发帖数: 1621 | 25 Sigh, I am almost through with you. You comment on my games way more than I
do to you. As a matter of fact, I don't ever remember I have commented on
your game, calling you suck or anything like that. If you want to discuss
hands or strategy, it is OK. Personal attack? Save for yourself.
You play tight. That I know. But don't think if somebody play a different
style than you do, there are something wrong with them. Your way or highway,
you are not there yet.
If you gonna post more hands, welcome
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I am going to be harsh one more time.. I am sorry if i offend you, but bear
: with me. I am only trying to help. If you don't like it, just ignore it.
: skill wise all put aside because I really don't see it relevant here. Your
: problem is that you don't know why you suck and you refuse to plug any of
: those obvious leaks. Every time when you focus on bad beat and bad runs
: and blame everything on your tilting and ftp random number generator, you just fall one more step
: into mediocracy. I have seen en
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 26 yeah.. ignore me.. be yourself... you rule man...
and leave the critics to my hand history alone as well unless it is someything constructive. No one is more critical on my own play than myself, so thanks for trying... | v*****e
发帖数: 497 | 27 good suggestion. I did not think carefully in that hand.
but any way, we will both go all in on the turn for sure.
【在 D*A 的大作中提到】
: i agree you got to pay. just wondering is it an overshove?
: i mean even you shove,
: you can not stop him if he had Set,Combo-Draw or Str anyway
: After he raise to 75$,he is unlikely to have FD
: (which he would happy to call as normal live player)
: If he is capable of making such raise-bluffing, any reraise will shut him
: off
: now the situation is:if you are behind already,
: he will for sure call any re-reraise,you got to pay.
: if you are still adhead,
| D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 28 for this hand, maybe it is meant to pay off
but, in case, if turn come out a spade, you may get your ass saved
good suggestion. I did not think carefully in that hand.
but any way, we will both go all in on the turn for sure.
【在 v*****e 的大作中提到】
: good suggestion. I did not think carefully in that hand.
: but any way, we will both go all in on the turn for sure.
| D*A
发帖数: 1169 | 29 arguable,
i guess the point here is that this kind of play is not acceptable for
a disciplined online grinders, since they can avoid marginal situations more
easily than live players without losing too much on winning rate
for live players, this could be or just could happen to be part of play
player
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: And one more reality check.
: No one person that cold call 1/10th stack preflop with 57s is a better player
: than me, because I simply am not that bad....
| v*****e
发帖数: 497 | 30 yeah, I know. but no spades turn out any way...
【在 D*A 的大作中提到】
: for this hand, maybe it is meant to pay off
: but, in case, if turn come out a spade, you may get your ass saved
:
: good suggestion. I did not think carefully in that hand.
: but any way, we will both go all in on the turn for sure.
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