W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 1 手痒, 今天乘lp 去PA面试, 在parx 打了6 小时.周一白天鱼情不佳. 一桌live
regular + 一俩个 fish. 不过运气不错, 1/2$ 打了个1.1k$ 的stack.. 拍照留念 since I don't play live often~~~ | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 2 not long into the session.
一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
turn is a 9, nit check,
I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
river is a 7.
he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 3 he's a bad liar, no QQ here, lol.
little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot
control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live
tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of
the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), bu: t he is even more
exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: not long into the session.
: 一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
: flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
: nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
: turn is a 9, nit check,
: I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
: river is a 7.
: he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
: The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
: another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 4 I think he does. Someone behind him saw his card when he flipped over before he mucked. these live nit fish regs are never raising anything other than a big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it. He can't be check calling two street with two high card. He later said that he should have led turn. I thought he might had 1010 or Js. but really it does not matter. Anyone with a brain knows AA KK is no different from 1010 here, even though he is probably not laying down As. I am folding his entire range pretty much. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 5 then he's not even a reg at all if he reads board, since he should know you
could barely have any 8x hand at all with the action all the way. 88, a
little chance but low.
before he mucked. these live nitfish is never raising anthing other than a
big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I think he does. Someone behind him saw his card when he flipped over before he mucked. these live nit fish regs are never raising anything other than a big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it. He can't be check calling two street with two high card. He later said that he should have led turn. I thought he might had 1010 or Js. but really it does not matter. Anyone with a brain knows AA KK is no different from 1010 here, even though he is probably not laying down As. I am folding his entire range pretty much.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 6 I am not only reping an 8. sets two pair too. too many different hands when he has only 1 pair 90%. If you don't think I can shove 2 pair here. Think again. I do not know what level he is in, but his hand is face up~~~
You should have seen his face after he saw my cards. He was really really pissed. lol.. was funny though..
you
a
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: then he's not even a reg at all if he reads board, since he should know you
: could barely have any 8x hand at all with the action all the way. 88, a
: little chance but low.
:
: before he mucked. these live nitfish is never raising anthing other than a
: big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 7 yes, he folded not because of that 8x, he knew this and only said so to save
face, he's more worried about other possibilities.
that's why i called him a bad liar and doubt he had even QQ, if indeed, way
passive player or ATM machine.
when
Think
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I am not only reping an 8. sets two pair too. too many different hands when he has only 1 pair 90%. If you don't think I can shove 2 pair here. Think again. I do not know what level he is in, but his hand is face up~~~
: You should have seen his face after he saw my cards. He was really really pissed. lol.. was funny though..
:
: you
: a
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 8 honestly I thought he was a decent reg to lay QQ down here if he did.
I have a spotless tight image on the table prior to that. His 1 pair hand is
never good, even two pair is going to be tough here.
you
a
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: then he's not even a reg at all if he reads board, since he should know you
: could barely have any 8x hand at all with the action all the way. 88, a
: little chance but low.
:
: before he mucked. these live nitfish is never raising anthing other than a
: big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 9 anyway, i enjoyed cashing out my huge stack of chips.. lol.. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 10 if we only take river action into consideration, yes, he could make a "good"
laydown with QQ or even better hands here.
but almost no way he'd play QQ like this all the way if he's a reg (or, not
reg fish, lol).
is
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: honestly I thought he was a decent reg to lay QQ down here if he did.
: I have a spotless tight image on the table prior to that. His 1 pair hand is
: never good, even two pair is going to be tough here.
:
: you
: a
| | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 11 sigh, last sat. i was sitting around and all of a sudden wanted to go to
delaware park..... LD immediately sensed it, and gave me this sharp face. i
swallowed my dream on the spot.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: anyway, i enjoyed cashing out my huge stack of chips.. lol..
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 12 why he checked this board， and only called your bet， if he is a reg
reg here only means regular fish, lol, and he is a giantic one
little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
everyone was shocked. i knew the g
anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
can beat. This is what happens w
, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling
a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: not long into the session.
: 一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
: flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
: nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
: turn is a 9, nit check,
: I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
: river is a 7.
: he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
: The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
: another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 13 most reg on 1$/2$ table are fish anyway. They are actually more predictable
than the true live fish/donks.
not enough thin value bet.
Too narrow a 2 barrel range.
too much pot control.
Overall weak but betting too strong with very strong hands
Relative narrow river donking range but too often when they do have strong
hand(probably good playing vs fish)
zero to no bluff river range.
some of these are probably good playing vs fish, but make them very easy to
play against.
good"
not
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: if we only take river action into consideration, yes, he could make a "good"
: laydown with QQ or even better hands here.
: but almost no way he'd play QQ like this all the way if he's a reg (or, not
: reg fish, lol).
:
: is
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 14 obviously fish. Everyone are fish on the table today. But most of them are "
regular"... lol i was trying to be nice...'
"compared to the weekend game this is a lot harder," says a reg sitting beside me. Most of the people on the table seems to know each other and "respect" each other's game. I have even heard the words "CRAFTY" when someone is describing a reg who just busted out. lol...you can imagine how the game is when the true fish comes..
he
calling
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: why he checked this board， and only called your bet， if he is a reg
: reg here only means regular fish, lol, and he is a giantic one
:
: little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
: me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
: everyone was shocked. i knew the g
: anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
: over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
: can beat. This is what happens w
: , "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 15 en ,感觉老打live会退步的，哈哈，你应该去打5、10的桌子
"
beside me. Most of the people on the table seems to know each other and "
respect" each other's game. I have even heard the words "CRAFTY" when
someone is describing a reg who j
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: obviously fish. Everyone are fish on the table today. But most of them are "
: regular"... lol i was trying to be nice...'
: "compared to the weekend game this is a lot harder," says a reg sitting beside me. Most of the people on the table seems to know each other and "respect" each other's game. I have even heard the words "CRAFTY" when someone is describing a reg who just busted out. lol...you can imagine how the game is when the true fish comes..
:
: he
: calling
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 16 yes
it is very weird to check QQ on a 652r w/ multi way pot
good"
not
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: if we only take river action into consideration, yes, he could make a "good"
: laydown with QQ or even better hands here.
: but almost no way he'd play QQ like this all the way if he's a reg (or, not
: reg fish, lol).
:
: is
| l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 17
i
哈哈。。。That's very funny.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: sigh, last sat. i was sitting around and all of a sudden wanted to go to
: delaware park..... LD immediately sensed it, and gave me this sharp face. i
: swallowed my dream on the spot.
| s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 18 I guess that guy had KQ or AT alike. | G********r
发帖数: 666 | 19 a decent regular would never check/call a flop like that with QQ. you were
really lucky to sit with a table of fish, then. | t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 20 open EP and c/c flop like that？even fish like me knows that's BAD. whatever
he has he should lead. river laydown is easy though. | | | M********g
发帖数: 717 | 21 haha, so vivid.
Same story here.
i
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: sigh, last sat. i was sitting around and all of a sudden wanted to go to
: delaware park..... LD immediately sensed it, and gave me this sharp face. i
: swallowed my dream on the spot.
| M********g
发帖数: 717 | 22 Yes, they are even more predictable( thus more lucrative to us) in this
sense.
predictable
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: most reg on 1$/2$ table are fish anyway. They are actually more predictable
: than the true live fish/donks.
: not enough thin value bet.
: Too narrow a 2 barrel range.
: too much pot control.
: Overall weak but betting too strong with very strong hands
: Relative narrow river donking range but too often when they do have strong
: hand(probably good playing vs fish)
: zero to no bluff river range.
: some of these are probably good playing vs fish, but make them very easy to
| r****r
发帖数: 1394 | 23 i believe him. to be honest i do check QQ on such a board sometimes.
i don't think it's a 100% bet in this situation, unless u can be almost sure
that you get it in good with this overpair.
but i either chk-raise the flop or fold the turn.
little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
everyone was shocked. i knew the g
anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
can beat. This is what happens w
, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling
a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: not long into the session.
: 一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
: flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
: nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
: turn is a 9, nit check,
: I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
: river is a 7.
: he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
: The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
: another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 24 So glad someone came out and says QQ is possible.. hehe..
One thing I have learned in poker recently is "Never say never in poker". Do
I think he should have bet with QQ on the flop? yes. But can he check call
on that flop? of course. our midstake pro player checked his AA after flop
with a wet board. Why don't you ask him why he checked that flop where I
think it is a 100% c bet vs that particular passive nit.
not long ago, I love to argue with people on the "correct" play. Nowadays,
when I discuss hands with people, I start to realize there are many
situations where different plays all have its merits as long as you have the
right reason for it to go with your read. Last week, yost asked me: "if a
relative tight player open ep, should I 3 bet with QQ at button?" I all of
sudden realized that I don't know how to answer this question. It seems neither can go wrong here flatting or 3 betting if you know why you are doing it.
Now back to this particular hand. Checking QQ seems like 100% bad play,
but if he is a nit and everyone knows that he has an over pair at this spot
if he bets and if someone behind is aggressive and likes to bet and try to
steal pots behind, it does not seem to be so bad anymore. As a matter of a
fact, he might have squeezed out 2 street value instead of 1 if he is facing
someone else instead of me. Check call flop, check turn and bets river
should work most of the time anyway like how player did with his AA vs a lot
of weaker hand even though you do lose a lot of value vs a monster like KK
and I think it is easily exploitable and I obviously did exploit that on this particular hand. But nothing is perfect in poker.
now back to what hand he has, I am probably 80% certain he has an over pair.
Even if flop action does not make sense, the turn action should narrow his
range a lot combining with his preflop raise range. If you keep thinking he
can't have QQ after flop and ignore his turn action, i think you simply
blind sight yourself at river when making decisions.
I also played another hand at the table yesterday which I would consider "
not stardard". Ep limp, this one fairly tight reg which I consider the
strongest among all the live regs on the table raised 12$. I was at sb with
KK. I chose to flat his raise instead of 3 bet out of position. I almost
never do this with KK, but I thought it was a good move at the time and it
actually ended up yielding me more value than 3 bet because it helped me to
keep my range wide vs a nit that could easily lay his entire range down
except AA facing my 3 bet. He did impress me when he called out my KK facing my river donk bet even though he called anyway.. lol...
Opening our mind a little, we might find that we just become a little
better in poker than before. ^_^
Final words: yes, checking that flop with QQ is terrible. You should bet 100% there on a passive live table. | G********r
发帖数: 666 | 25 ok, seeing windstorm mm's long response, I'll have to give some
clarification to avoid unncessary misunderstanding:
1) I did believe he had an over pair, QQ, JJ, TT, etc. not like it mattered
anyways. The individual sounded like a super nit who didn't know anything
about how to play the thinking game;
2) A decent regular would either bet out or c/r on flop/turn with an over-
pair. Being passive, giving away pot control by c/c on a ragged flop was a
bad bad idea, which decent players would avoid doing. That said, the
opponent was closer to a fish, or a regular fish;
3) It is always sweet to sit in a table with some fish like this. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 26 frankly, the only reason i guess he could have QQ and play like this was that
he wanted to see how/what style MM played, but he couldn't call river
anyway, so such a failure in the end.
he opened for $7, cc trashy flop, cc still rag turn, cf river (and give "
information" unnecessarily), ... if he plays QQ like this, he's indeed one
of a kind, hehe.
mattered
a
【在 G********r 的大作中提到】
: ok, seeing windstorm mm's long response, I'll have to give some
: clarification to avoid unncessary misunderstanding:
: 1) I did believe he had an over pair, QQ, JJ, TT, etc. not like it mattered
: anyways. The individual sounded like a super nit who didn't know anything
: about how to play the thinking game;
: 2) A decent regular would either bet out or c/r on flop/turn with an over-
: pair. Being passive, giving away pot control by c/c on a ragged flop was a
: bad bad idea, which decent players would avoid doing. That said, the
: opponent was closer to a fish, or a regular fish;
: 3) It is always sweet to sit in a table with some fish like this.
| M********g
发帖数: 717 | 27 Well, I am confused here.CR flop is apparently a choice. But how he leading
out on this spot will make any difference if he has no guts to call the
bluff and his range is so apparent? Windstorm still will call his flop call
since he is at button and no one else will join the party.
Does he lead out the turn? Even so, windstorm can still float and take the
pot at the river. Different plays, same results.
Do
call
flop
the
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: So glad someone came out and says QQ is possible.. hehe..
: One thing I have learned in poker recently is "Never say never in poker". Do
: I think he should have bet with QQ on the flop? yes. But can he check call
: on that flop? of course. our midstake pro player checked his AA after flop
: with a wet board. Why don't you ask him why he checked that flop where I
: think it is a 100% c bet vs that particular passive nit.
: not long ago, I love to argue with people on the "correct" play. Nowadays,
: when I discuss hands with people, I start to realize there are many
: situations where different plays all have its merits as long as you have the
: right reason for it to go with your read. Last week, yost asked me: "if a
| l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 28 I think no matter what he had, he made a really bad play on that hand. If he
did have QQ or other pairs,then he should've at least bet on the flop to
see where he was at, although check/raise would be better. If he had AK,AQ
kinds of cards, then he should've folded on the turn. From just one hand he
played, we can't tell if he is regular or not, but regular players do not
equal to good players. Just my two cents. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 29 手痒, 今天乘lp 去PA面试, 在parx 打了6 小时.周一白天鱼情不佳. 一桌live
regular + 一俩个 fish. 不过运气不错, 1/2$ 打了个1.1k$ 的stack.. 拍照留念 since I don't play live often~~~ | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 30 not long into the session.
一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
turn is a 9, nit check,
I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
river is a 7.
he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn. | | | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 31 he's a bad liar, no QQ here, lol.
little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot
control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live
tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of
the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), bu: t he is even more
exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: not long into the session.
: 一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
: flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
: nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
: turn is a 9, nit check,
: I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
: river is a 7.
: he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
: The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
: another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 32 I think he does. Someone behind him saw his card when he flipped over before he mucked. these live nit fish regs are never raising anything other than a big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it. He can't be check calling two street with two high card. He later said that he should have led turn. I thought he might had 1010 or Js. but really it does not matter. Anyone with a brain knows AA KK is no different from 1010 here, even though he is probably not laying down As. I am folding his entire range pretty much. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 33 then he's not even a reg at all if he reads board, since he should know you
could barely have any 8x hand at all with the action all the way. 88, a
little chance but low.
before he mucked. these live nitfish is never raising anthing other than a
big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I think he does. Someone behind him saw his card when he flipped over before he mucked. these live nit fish regs are never raising anything other than a big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it. He can't be check calling two street with two high card. He later said that he should have led turn. I thought he might had 1010 or Js. but really it does not matter. Anyone with a brain knows AA KK is no different from 1010 here, even though he is probably not laying down As. I am folding his entire range pretty much.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 34 I am not only reping an 8. sets two pair too. too many different hands when he has only 1 pair 90%. If you don't think I can shove 2 pair here. Think again. I do not know what level he is in, but his hand is face up~~~
You should have seen his face after he saw my cards. He was really really pissed. lol.. was funny though..
you
a
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: then he's not even a reg at all if he reads board, since he should know you
: could barely have any 8x hand at all with the action all the way. 88, a
: little chance but low.
:
: before he mucked. these live nitfish is never raising anthing other than a
: big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it.
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 35 yes, he folded not because of that 8x, he knew this and only said so to save
face, he's more worried about other possibilities.
that's why i called him a bad liar and doubt he had even QQ, if indeed, way
passive player or ATM machine.
when
Think
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: I am not only reping an 8. sets two pair too. too many different hands when he has only 1 pair 90%. If you don't think I can shove 2 pair here. Think again. I do not know what level he is in, but his hand is face up~~~
: You should have seen his face after he saw my cards. He was really really pissed. lol.. was funny though..
:
: you
: a
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 36 honestly I thought he was a decent reg to lay QQ down here if he did.
I have a spotless tight image on the table prior to that. His 1 pair hand is
never good, even two pair is going to be tough here.
you
a
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: then he's not even a reg at all if he reads board, since he should know you
: could barely have any 8x hand at all with the action all the way. 88, a
: little chance but low.
:
: before he mucked. these live nitfish is never raising anthing other than a
: big pocket pair or two broad way cards. you know it.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 37 anyway, i enjoyed cashing out my huge stack of chips.. lol.. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 38 if we only take river action into consideration, yes, he could make a "good"
laydown with QQ or even better hands here.
but almost no way he'd play QQ like this all the way if he's a reg (or, not
reg fish, lol).
is
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: honestly I thought he was a decent reg to lay QQ down here if he did.
: I have a spotless tight image on the table prior to that. His 1 pair hand is
: never good, even two pair is going to be tough here.
:
: you
: a
| f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 39 sigh, last sat. i was sitting around and all of a sudden wanted to go to
delaware park..... LD immediately sensed it, and gave me this sharp face. i
swallowed my dream on the spot.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: anyway, i enjoyed cashing out my huge stack of chips.. lol..
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 40 why he checked this board， and only called your bet， if he is a reg
reg here only means regular fish, lol, and he is a giantic one
little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
everyone was shocked. i knew the g
anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
can beat. This is what happens w
, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling
a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: not long into the session.
: 一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
: flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
: nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
: turn is a 9, nit check,
: I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
: river is a 7.
: he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
: The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
: another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
| | | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 41 most reg on 1$/2$ table are fish anyway. They are actually more predictable
than the true live fish/donks.
not enough thin value bet.
Too narrow a 2 barrel range.
too much pot control.
Overall weak but betting too strong with very strong hands
Relative narrow river donking range but too often when they do have strong
hand(probably good playing vs fish)
zero to no bluff river range.
some of these are probably good playing vs fish, but make them very easy to
play against.
good"
not
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: if we only take river action into consideration, yes, he could make a "good"
: laydown with QQ or even better hands here.
: but almost no way he'd play QQ like this all the way if he's a reg (or, not
: reg fish, lol).
:
: is
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 42 obviously fish. Everyone are fish on the table today. But most of them are "
regular"... lol i was trying to be nice...'
"compared to the weekend game this is a lot harder," says a reg sitting beside me. Most of the people on the table seems to know each other and "respect" each other's game. I have even heard the words "CRAFTY" when someone is describing a reg who just busted out. lol...you can imagine how the game is when the true fish comes..
he
calling
【在 p*******p 的大作中提到】
: why he checked this board， and only called your bet， if he is a reg
: reg here only means regular fish, lol, and he is a giantic one
:
: little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
: me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
: everyone was shocked. i knew the g
: anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
: over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
: can beat. This is what happens w
: , "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling
| p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 43 en ,感觉老打live会退步的，哈哈，你应该去打5、10的桌子
"
beside me. Most of the people on the table seems to know each other and "
respect" each other's game. I have even heard the words "CRAFTY" when
someone is describing a reg who j
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: obviously fish. Everyone are fish on the table today. But most of them are "
: regular"... lol i was trying to be nice...'
: "compared to the weekend game this is a lot harder," says a reg sitting beside me. Most of the people on the table seems to know each other and "respect" each other's game. I have even heard the words "CRAFTY" when someone is describing a reg who just busted out. lol...you can imagine how the game is when the true fish comes..
:
: he
: calling
| s*******o
发帖数: 4896 | 44 yes
it is very weird to check QQ on a 652r w/ multi way pot
good"
not
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: if we only take river action into consideration, yes, he could make a "good"
: laydown with QQ or even better hands here.
: but almost no way he'd play QQ like this all the way if he's a reg (or, not
: reg fish, lol).
:
: is
| l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 45
i
哈哈。。。That's very funny.
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: sigh, last sat. i was sitting around and all of a sudden wanted to go to
: delaware park..... LD immediately sensed it, and gave me this sharp face. i
: swallowed my dream on the spot.
| s*********k
发帖数: 1989 | 46 I guess that guy had KQ or AT alike. | G********r
发帖数: 666 | 47 a decent regular would never check/call a flop like that with QQ. you were
really lucky to sit with a table of fish, then. | t********t
发帖数: 5415 | 48 open EP and c/c flop like that？even fish like me knows that's BAD. whatever
he has he should lead. river laydown is easy though. | M********g
发帖数: 717 | 49 haha, so vivid.
Same story here.
i
【在 f*****g 的大作中提到】
: sigh, last sat. i was sitting around and all of a sudden wanted to go to
: delaware park..... LD immediately sensed it, and gave me this sharp face. i
: swallowed my dream on the spot.
| M********g
发帖数: 717 | 50 Yes, they are even more predictable( thus more lucrative to us) in this
sense.
predictable
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: most reg on 1$/2$ table are fish anyway. They are actually more predictable
: than the true live fish/donks.
: not enough thin value bet.
: Too narrow a 2 barrel range.
: too much pot control.
: Overall weak but betting too strong with very strong hands
: Relative narrow river donking range but too often when they do have strong
: hand(probably good playing vs fish)
: zero to no bluff river range.
: some of these are probably good playing vs fish, but make them very easy to
| | | r****r
发帖数: 1394 | 51 i believe him. to be honest i do check QQ on such a board sometimes.
i don't think it's a 100% bet in this situation, unless u can be almost sure
that you get it in good with this overpair.
but i either chk-raise the flop or fold the turn.
little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
everyone was shocked. i knew the g
anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
can beat. This is what happens w
, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling
a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: not long into the session.
: 一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
: flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
: nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
: turn is a 9, nit check,
: I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
: river is a 7.
: he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
: The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
: another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
| W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 52 So glad someone came out and says QQ is possible.. hehe..
One thing I have learned in poker recently is "Never say never in poker". Do
I think he should have bet with QQ on the flop? yes. But can he check call
on that flop? of course. our midstake pro player checked his AA after flop
with a wet board. Why don't you ask him why he checked that flop where I
think it is a 100% c bet vs that particular passive nit.
not long ago, I love to argue with people on the "correct" play. Nowadays,
when I discuss hands with people, I start to realize there are many
situations where different plays all have its merits as long as you have the
right reason for it to go with your read. Last week, yost asked me: "if a
relative tight player open ep, should I 3 bet with QQ at button?" I all of
sudden realized that I don't know how to answer this question. It seems neither can go wrong here flatting or 3 betting if you know why you are doing it.
Now back to this particular hand. Checking QQ seems like 100% bad play,
but if he is a nit and everyone knows that he has an over pair at this spot
if he bets and if someone behind is aggressive and likes to bet and try to
steal pots behind, it does not seem to be so bad anymore. As a matter of a
fact, he might have squeezed out 2 street value instead of 1 if he is facing
someone else instead of me. Check call flop, check turn and bets river
should work most of the time anyway like how player did with his AA vs a lot
of weaker hand even though you do lose a lot of value vs a monster like KK
and I think it is easily exploitable and I obviously did exploit that on this particular hand. But nothing is perfect in poker.
now back to what hand he has, I am probably 80% certain he has an over pair.
Even if flop action does not make sense, the turn action should narrow his
range a lot combining with his preflop raise range. If you keep thinking he
can't have QQ after flop and ignore his turn action, i think you simply
blind sight yourself at river when making decisions.
I also played another hand at the table yesterday which I would consider "
not stardard". Ep limp, this one fairly tight reg which I consider the
strongest among all the live regs on the table raised 12$. I was at sb with
KK. I chose to flat his raise instead of 3 bet out of position. I almost
never do this with KK, but I thought it was a good move at the time and it
actually ended up yielding me more value than 3 bet because it helped me to
keep my range wide vs a nit that could easily lay his entire range down
except AA facing my 3 bet. He did impress me when he called out my KK facing my river donk bet even though he called anyway.. lol...
Opening our mind a little, we might find that we just become a little
better in poker than before. ^_^
Final words: yes, checking that flop with QQ is terrible. You should bet 100% there on a passive live table. | G********r
发帖数: 666 | 53 ok, seeing windstorm mm's long response, I'll have to give some
clarification to avoid unncessary misunderstanding:
1) I did believe he had an over pair, QQ, JJ, TT, etc. not like it mattered
anyways. The individual sounded like a super nit who didn't know anything
about how to play the thinking game;
2) A decent regular would either bet out or c/r on flop/turn with an over-
pair. Being passive, giving away pot control by c/c on a ragged flop was a
bad bad idea, which decent players would avoid doing. That said, the
opponent was closer to a fish, or a regular fish;
3) It is always sweet to sit in a table with some fish like this. | f*****g
发帖数: 15860 | 54 frankly, the only reason i guess he could have QQ and play like this was that
he wanted to see how/what style MM played, but he couldn't call river
anyway, so such a failure in the end.
he opened for $7, cc trashy flop, cc still rag turn, cf river (and give "
information" unnecessarily), ... if he plays QQ like this, he's indeed one
of a kind, hehe.
mattered
a
【在 G********r 的大作中提到】
: ok, seeing windstorm mm's long response, I'll have to give some
: clarification to avoid unncessary misunderstanding:
: 1) I did believe he had an over pair, QQ, JJ, TT, etc. not like it mattered
: anyways. The individual sounded like a super nit who didn't know anything
: about how to play the thinking game;
: 2) A decent regular would either bet out or c/r on flop/turn with an over-
: pair. Being passive, giving away pot control by c/c on a ragged flop was a
: bad bad idea, which decent players would avoid doing. That said, the
: opponent was closer to a fish, or a regular fish;
: 3) It is always sweet to sit in a table with some fish like this.
| M********g
发帖数: 717 | 55 Well, I am confused here.CR flop is apparently a choice. But how he leading
out on this spot will make any difference if he has no guts to call the
bluff and his range is so apparent? Windstorm still will call his flop call
since he is at button and no one else will join the party.
Does he lead out the turn? Even so, windstorm can still float and take the
pot at the river. Different plays, same results.
Do
call
flop
the
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: So glad someone came out and says QQ is possible.. hehe..
: One thing I have learned in poker recently is "Never say never in poker". Do
: I think he should have bet with QQ on the flop? yes. But can he check call
: on that flop? of course. our midstake pro player checked his AA after flop
: with a wet board. Why don't you ask him why he checked that flop where I
: think it is a 100% c bet vs that particular passive nit.
: not long ago, I love to argue with people on the "correct" play. Nowadays,
: when I discuss hands with people, I start to realize there are many
: situations where different plays all have its merits as long as you have the
: right reason for it to go with your read. Last week, yost asked me: "if a
| l*****g
发帖数: 1128 | 56 I think no matter what he had, he made a really bad play on that hand. If he
did have QQ or other pairs,then he should've at least bet on the flop to
see where he was at, although check/raise would be better. If he had AK,AQ
kinds of cards, then he should've folded on the turn. From just one hand he
played, we can't tell if he is regular or not, but regular players do not
equal to good players. Just my two cents. | W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 57 hector found this post. Hehe.. this hand is a live example of using the
concept of capped range to push a nit reg out of his hand. I think we
discussed this in bobo's thread not long ago. | H****r
发帖数: 2801 | 58 这把和我在bellagio玩的一把狠像,不同的是最后我allin,fish想了一小下call了，
fish 是KK...
little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell
me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol...
everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an
over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he
can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot
control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live
tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of
the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), bu: t he is even more
exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: not long into the session.
: 一把有意思的牌, nit reg raise ep 7$. 3 caller, i flat button with KJo
: flop 652r, nit check, everyone check i go 19$.
: nit calls. everyone fold. nit was reading a magazine. he called casually.
: turn is a 9, nit check,
: I go 35$. nit put down his magazine. reluctantly called.
: river is a 7.
: he instantly checked,I went all in without too much thinking. he had little over 100$ left and I had him covered. He tanked and folded and tell me "please show me an 8, I have QQ." I said "sure". Showed KJ.. lol... everyone was shocked. i knew the game would be good for the day and it did...
: The problem he has is that his range is so capped that he can't have anything more than a pair. Actually when he called turn i knew he had an over pair. with the board running out like this, there is simply no hand he can beat. This is what happens when you have a capped range and try to pot control. We are not going to let you obviously. I think he is a decent live tight reg to be able to lay down over pair (it is a good lay down most of the time facing this type action from a tight Asian), but he is even more exploitable than fish because he can read the board.
: another live reg said at the side, "7 is such a nice card for you". I said, "everything would be a nice card for me except a Q." He was never calling a shove river unimproved after he tank/called turn.
|
|
