p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 1 this was probably the 10th time I read this post, yet it was worth every
second of my time.
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=&Numbe
This post is in response to Irieguys Post "The Difference Between Success
and Failure." Here is the link http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1822484&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1
When I read Irieguys post I wasn't planning on responding, I rarely respond
to posts, because most of the time I am the dissenter, and frankly, it isn't
good for my long term financial situation. As I started reading the
responses I soon felt obligated to respond. He is so close, but travelling
in the wrong direction.
The wording he uses in the text lets me know where he is at on the "path,"
so to speak(the very beginning). Let me start with the words success and
failure. These are words that mean such different things to each individual
that to use them to label your accomplishments, or lackthereof, is setting
yourself up for a long ardurous journey, that most won't finish. Success and
failure are just ideas created by society to improperly judge others
against ourselves. There are no successful people, or rather, using these
words, I should say that there are no failures and everyone is a success.
Quote:
Everybody will eventually run worse than they thought was possible. The
difference between a winner and a loser is that the latter thinks they do
not deserve it.
This statement is truer than anyone can know(even though I think most of you
do know, it just seems impossible for me to believe that someone else can
understand). What he says about winners and losers though, will keep you
from attaining a more complete game. There are no winners or losers, to
think that, is to let yourself be affected by negative variance. If you are
not in the positive for the day, then you therefore must be a loser, and so
the downward spiral begins. All of those negative ideas must be eliminated
from your mind, or you will not perform to your potential. The trick is
recognizing these negative ideas, since there are so many and so commonplace
in our society, it is a large task indeed to sort them out as real, or just
ideas created by the masses. Our labels for winners and losers simply
identify individuals who play the same game a different way. Just because
one person doesn't achieve the same goal that I strive for, doesn't make
that person a "loser." Everyone is the same, and everyone has the same
potential, some just direct their energies in different directions. The
sooner you can get that into your head and really believe it, the sooner you
will start to have a real understanding of the game.
Quote:
I am beginning to realize that most people don't have the psychological
fortitude or spiritual perspective to manage the vicissitudes of this game.
I also believe that of the very small number of professional poker players
who have been successful for more than a few years, most of them are
actually quite lucky. I believe that there are many pros who will fail once
they begin to experience average luck.
I really believe that everyone has the "psychological fortitude" to manage
the vicissitudes of the game. It is simply a choice. A choice to change the
way you think about results. Stop thinking in terms of winning as good and
losing as bad. The two concepts should be grouped in your mind exactly the
same. When God "blessed" man with shame, failure became a real entity we had
to deal with. That is what we are trying to achieve when we label a person
as a failure, we are attaching shame to A meaningless act. Throughout my
life I have been around alot of people that most would classify as "failures
" and not one of them seemed any different than myself.
The problem comes to life when a person starts their downswing, which we
classify as "losing," they begin to suspect that they may "fail" and rather
than become susceptible to the shame that comes with "failure" they decide
to quit. They stop because they fear things that aren't even real. The
people who come to realize these negative labels aren't real, either
concretely or intuitively, are the same people that do not give up, no
matter how bad things seem to be running. Eventually they become the "
professionals" in whatever walk of life they choose.
You have to find your own way to deal with these thoughts that have been
brainwashed into your mind for your whole life. Identifying every negative
thought as it creeps into your mind is a start, it takes practice to monitor
your thoughts, but you cannot eliminate what you do not recognize.
I try very hard not to allow any negativity in my life, ask my brother(ship_
it_tome) how upset I get when he is at my house, playing, struggling, for
hours on end, and finally says "I can't win." We get along very well, but I
get very irate with him when he utters those deadly words, as I am sure you
all have muttered them at one time or another.
Quote:
I think you can learn how to avoid this trap of psychological betrayal. I
think I'm beginning to learn it myself. It involves turning your noise
filter all the way up.
Turning your noise filter up will work for a time, but eventually it builds
and seeps through at one time or another, and everything that has been
blocked comes pouring out at once, which creates the very worst tilt
imaginable. Believe me, I have been there many times. I have come to realize
that it is much better to acknowledge the negative or angry thoughts as
they arrive, that doesn't mean just noticing their presence, when they
approach, actually talk to your mind and announce their arrival, and then
identify the reasons behind them. As your mind comes to realize how trivial
and meaningless these thoughts are, it will eventually stop creating them in
the first place. It takes alot of time and effort to do this, but the long
term results will be well worth it.
OK....SO HOW DOES ALL THIS REALLY RELATE TO POKER?
The game that most of us play is really very simple. You get 2 cards, 5
cards come up, and you do a little betting here and there. Best 5 card hand
wins.
With a game this simple, why do so many people have so much trouble ending
up ahead of where they started?
The real game is about people, not the cards in your hand. If you know a
person well enough, you can read their hand, and once you know what they
have in their hand, the game becomes a cakewalk. The problem is, we have all
of these predisposed ideas of who a person is based on ideas that have been
placed in our heads by our society. You have to be able to eliminate all of
these ideas. Once you train yourself to be completely judgement free, you
will become a more complete player. Anyone can read a persons hand based on
his actions and seeing common tendencies, ie., a beginning player will
commonly bet small when on a draw, and bet big when he has a made hand. What
about more experienced players? What does it mean when they bet 2/3s of the
pot one time, and than bet pot the next? They are certainly experienced
enough to know not to bet the same pattern for the same types of hands. So
how can you figure out what they have? Well, get to know him, watch him play
. Try and figure out what he is thinking, he has to be thinking something.
Put yourself in his spot, what kind of hand would you have if you were
betting like that?
Now do this for every hand for every player that is in the hand, for every
player at the table, for every table that you are playing at. Try and eight
table while doing this exercise. Put effort into every single hand that is
played out at your table, not just the ones you are involved in, every
single hand. Every time there is a showdown, and the losing hand is mucked,
open up the hand history file, and see what he had. Go through the hand
again and see if you can figure out why he willingly showed down a losing
hand(something that should rarely be done.)
I call this an exercise, but this should be done on every single hand that
is played out at any of your tables for the rest of your poker career. This
is how you become a real player, then you can ignore the "sng" formula and
really start to play. Post flop is where the real game is at, and it is fun
to play. Use your bets to pull information from your opponent, and then when
you know what he has, trust your judgement 100%. If you think he is on
second pair, but will not fold unless you bet your whole stack, then bet
your whole stack(unless of course you have a better hand than second pair,
which is unlikely since players like us can rarely beat bottom pair), even
if it means your tournament is over if you are wrong. Practice trusting
yourself, you will be wrong enough in the beginning to doubt yourself, but
don't let that stop you.
There is a strong possibility that I am the most active player in the world,
and I can honestly say that this is something that I do on nearly every
hand. Imagine, 6000 hands a day on average, just watching and learning, with
no predisposed judgements of the other players. This is what it takes. Bad
beats are no longer bad beats, they are just the cards coming out randomly,
evening themselves out over time. What is really important is learning the
thousands of languages that different people speak through their actions at
the table. Believe me, it isn't some spiritual science, it is listening and
learning without prejudice.
Gigabet | p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 2 this was probably the 10th time I read this post, yet it was worth every
second of my time.
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=&Numbe
This post is in response to Irieguys Post "The Difference Between Success
and Failure." Here is the link http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1822484&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1
When I read Irieguys post I wasn't planning on responding, I rarely respond
to posts, because most of the time I am the dissenter, and frankly, it isn't
good for my long term financial situation. As I started reading the
responses I soon felt obligated to respond. He is so close, but travelling
in the wrong direction.
The wording he uses in the text lets me know where he is at on the "path,"
so to speak(the very beginning). Let me start with the words success and
failure. These are words that mean such different things to each individual
that to use them to label your accomplishments, or lackthereof, is setting
yourself up for a long ardurous journey, that most won't finish. Success and
failure are just ideas created by society to improperly judge others
against ourselves. There are no successful people, or rather, using these
words, I should say that there are no failures and everyone is a success.
Quote:
Everybody will eventually run worse than they thought was possible. The
difference between a winner and a loser is that the latter thinks they do
not deserve it.
This statement is truer than anyone can know(even though I think most of you
do know, it just seems impossible for me to believe that someone else can
understand). What he says about winners and losers though, will keep you
from attaining a more complete game. There are no winners or losers, to
think that, is to let yourself be affected by negative variance. If you are
not in the positive for the day, then you therefore must be a loser, and so
the downward spiral begins. All of those negative ideas must be eliminated
from your mind, or you will not perform to your potential. The trick is
recognizing these negative ideas, since there are so many and so commonplace
in our society, it is a large task indeed to sort them out as real, or just
ideas created by the masses. Our labels for winners and losers simply
identify individuals who play the same game a different way. Just because
one person doesn't achieve the same goal that I strive for, doesn't make
that person a "loser." Everyone is the same, and everyone has the same
potential, some just direct their energies in different directions. The
sooner you can get that into your head and really believe it, the sooner you
will start to have a real understanding of the game.
Quote:
I am beginning to realize that most people don't have the psychological
fortitude or spiritual perspective to manage the vicissitudes of this game.
I also believe that of the very small number of professional poker players
who have been successful for more than a few years, most of them are
actually quite lucky. I believe that there are many pros who will fail once
they begin to experience average luck.
I really believe that everyone has the "psychological fortitude" to manage
the vicissitudes of the game. It is simply a choice. A choice to change the
way you think about results. Stop thinking in terms of winning as good and
losing as bad. The two concepts should be grouped in your mind exactly the
same. When God "blessed" man with shame, failure became a real entity we had
to deal with. That is what we are trying to achieve when we label a person
as a failure, we are attaching shame to A meaningless act. Throughout my
life I have been around alot of people that most would classify as "failures
" and not one of them seemed any different than myself.
The problem comes to life when a person starts their downswing, which we
classify as "losing," they begin to suspect that they may "fail" and rather
than become susceptible to the shame that comes with "failure" they decide
to quit. They stop because they fear things that aren't even real. The
people who come to realize these negative labels aren't real, either
concretely or intuitively, are the same people that do not give up, no
matter how bad things seem to be running. Eventually they become the "
professionals" in whatever walk of life they choose.
You have to find your own way to deal with these thoughts that have been
brainwashed into your mind for your whole life. Identifying every negative
thought as it creeps into your mind is a start, it takes practice to monitor
your thoughts, but you cannot eliminate what you do not recognize.
I try very hard not to allow any negativity in my life, ask my brother(ship_
it_tome) how upset I get when he is at my house, playing, struggling, for
hours on end, and finally says "I can't win." We get along very well, but I
get very irate with him when he utters those deadly words, as I am sure you
all have muttered them at one time or another.
Quote:
I think you can learn how to avoid this trap of psychological betrayal. I
think I'm beginning to learn it myself. It involves turning your noise
filter all the way up.
Turning your noise filter up will work for a time, but eventually it builds
and seeps through at one time or another, and everything that has been
blocked comes pouring out at once, which creates the very worst tilt
imaginable. Believe me, I have been there many times. I have come to realize
that it is much better to acknowledge the negative or angry thoughts as
they arrive, that doesn't mean just noticing their presence, when they
approach, actually talk to your mind and announce their arrival, and then
identify the reasons behind them. As your mind comes to realize how trivial
and meaningless these thoughts are, it will eventually stop creating them in
the first place. It takes alot of time and effort to do this, but the long
term results will be well worth it.
OK....SO HOW DOES ALL THIS REALLY RELATE TO POKER?
The game that most of us play is really very simple. You get 2 cards, 5
cards come up, and you do a little betting here and there. Best 5 card hand
wins.
With a game this simple, why do so many people have so much trouble ending
up ahead of where they started?
The real game is about people, not the cards in your hand. If you know a
person well enough, you can read their hand, and once you know what they
have in their hand, the game becomes a cakewalk. The problem is, we have all
of these predisposed ideas of who a person is based on ideas that have been
placed in our heads by our society. You have to be able to eliminate all of
these ideas. Once you train yourself to be completely judgement free, you
will become a more complete player. Anyone can read a persons hand based on
his actions and seeing common tendencies, ie., a beginning player will
commonly bet small when on a draw, and bet big when he has a made hand. What
about more experienced players? What does it mean when they bet 2/3s of the
pot one time, and than bet pot the next? They are certainly experienced
enough to know not to bet the same pattern for the same types of hands. So
how can you figure out what they have? Well, get to know him, watch him play
. Try and figure out what he is thinking, he has to be thinking something.
Put yourself in his spot, what kind of hand would you have if you were
betting like that?
Now do this for every hand for every player that is in the hand, for every
player at the table, for every table that you are playing at. Try and eight
table while doing this exercise. Put effort into every single hand that is
played out at your table, not just the ones you are involved in, every
single hand. Every time there is a showdown, and the losing hand is mucked,
open up the hand history file, and see what he had. Go through the hand
again and see if you can figure out why he willingly showed down a losing
hand(something that should rarely be done.)
I call this an exercise, but this should be done on every single hand that
is played out at any of your tables for the rest of your poker career. This
is how you become a real player, then you can ignore the "sng" formula and
really start to play. Post flop is where the real game is at, and it is fun
to play. Use your bets to pull information from your opponent, and then when
you know what he has, trust your judgement 100%. If you think he is on
second pair, but will not fold unless you bet your whole stack, then bet
your whole stack(unless of course you have a better hand than second pair,
which is unlikely since players like us can rarely beat bottom pair), even
if it means your tournament is over if you are wrong. Practice trusting
yourself, you will be wrong enough in the beginning to doubt yourself, but
don't let that stop you.
There is a strong possibility that I am the most active player in the world,
and I can honestly say that this is something that I do on nearly every
hand. Imagine, 6000 hands a day on average, just watching and learning, with
no predisposed judgements of the other players. This is what it takes. Bad
beats are no longer bad beats, they are just the cards coming out randomly,
evening themselves out over time. What is really important is learning the
thousands of languages that different people speak through their actions at
the table. Believe me, it isn't some spiritual science, it is listening and
learning without prejudice.
Gigabet | M********g
发帖数: 717 | 3 indeed.
respond
't
【在 p**********1 的大作中提到】
: this was probably the 10th time I read this post, yet it was worth every
: second of my time.
: http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=0&Board=&Numbe
: This post is in response to Irieguys Post "The Difference Between Success
: and Failure." Here is the link http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=&Number=1822484&page=1&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=14&fpart=1
: When I read Irieguys post I wasn't planning on responding, I rarely respond
: to posts, because most of the time I am the dissenter, and frankly, it isn't
: good for my long term financial situation. As I started reading the
: responses I soon felt obligated to respond. He is so close, but travelling
: in the wrong direction.
| p**********1
发帖数: 1458 | 4 OP was a very good sng player and dominated the high stake sng at partypoker
, but there were rumors he was broke.
there is a post reveals his poor bankroll management and probably gambling
problems.
http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=4
one crazy story from his post:
I remember once, I was in Sterling, Ill. for a pool tournament, and there
was a card game going on during the tournament. It was like a 2/4 omaha 8/b
game. Anyway, one of the guys in the game asked if anyone wanted to raise
the limit. I was the only one who said yes. So it didn't happen. But the guy
offers me a HU game, I say sure, what stakes. He said 500/1000....I said ok
(I had maybe 2500 with me, 500/1000 was wayyyyyyyy over my head at that
point in time.) Fortunately, I had friends who saw me win every time I
played, so i was able to get 50k from 3 different people. Lol, i have 50bb
for this game, not Big Bets, big blinds.....how ridiculous is this bankroll
for this game. Fortunately, the people putting the money up had no idea that
50k was not even in the realm of reality in the world of 500/1000 limit
holdem.
We get to his room, and he offers the cut, and he deals out 4 cards....?
I look confused, he says, I thought we agreed we were going to play limit
omaha all high. What?
I didn't want to lose the game, so I said whatever. But, I had never played
all high omaha before, i had seen it played, but that was plo, not limit. I'
ll figure it out, I say to myself.
Immediately I see that I have no chance at not losing this 50k, unless I
just call call call and get lucky. I have absolutely no clue as to what
would constitute a good showdown hand in that game.
For the first 3 hours we played, I nevere bet, or raised, unless I had the
pure nuts. I did get lucky, i had a string where I won 12 consecutive hands.
(most hands went ck ck ck)
I eventually got to the point where I felt I had a handle on the relative
showdown value of certain holdings based on the texture of the board. Long
story short, I ended getting stuck 43k, then being up 400k, and then being
stuck again. It was unreal. We quit after playing for 14 hours, and we dead
even, down to the last 100 dollars, it was unreal. | M********g
发帖数: 717 | 5 unbelievable. He is truly a degen, operating at a higher level than a pure
gambler.
He is willing to play a huge -EV game without even minimum bankroll.
partypoker
b
guy
【在 p**********1 的大作中提到】
: OP was a very good sng player and dominated the high stake sng at partypoker
: , but there were rumors he was broke.
: there is a post reveals his poor bankroll management and probably gambling
: problems.
: http://archives1.twoplustwo.com/showthreaded.php?Cat=0&Number=4
: one crazy story from his post:
: I remember once, I was in Sterling, Ill. for a pool tournament, and there
: was a card game going on during the tournament. It was like a 2/4 omaha 8/b
: game. Anyway, one of the guys in the game asked if anyone wanted to raise
: the limit. I was the only one who said yes. So it didn't happen. But the guy
|
|
