p****0
发帖数: 611 | 1 Tourney, early stage. Starting w/ 4k chip. Blinds are 25/50. Hero had QJ
raised to 4bb, 3 way pot including Btn.
Flop JsTs9d. Hero led out 8bb. Btn tank and 3bet raise. Had little read on
Btn, seems like aggressive, showed QQ once. So hero called. Turn Tc, hero
check, Btn check. River blunk, hero check, Btn announced all in, hero?
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8 |
m*k
发帖数: 51 | 2 i would not consider call
【在 p****0 的大作中提到】
: Tourney, early stage. Starting w/ 4k chip. Blinds are 25/50. Hero had QJ
: raised to 4bb, 3 way pot including Btn.
: Flop JsTs9d. Hero led out 8bb. Btn tank and 3bet raise. Had little read on
: Btn, seems like aggressive, showed QQ once. So hero called. Turn Tc, hero
: check, Btn check. River blunk, hero check, Btn announced all in, hero?
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
: ★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 3 river all in is around pot size?
I think his line is representing:
1) he was boated on the turn or 2) he made a straight on the flop and worry
about the boat on the turn, then try to get some more value after you check
two streets. 3) he is trying to bluff with the 2 lines above with busted
draws if his thinking level is one level above normal reg 4) he is bluffing
with busted draws regardless of his line just because you checked twice if
his thinking level is one level below normal reg.
说了一堆废话，i guess it depends on the opponents in the end. |
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 4 How much BTN 3bet on flop? |
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 5
worry
check
bluffing
未知玩家的话，就用normal reg的thinking level来处理吧，clear fold for me
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: river all in is around pot size?
: I think his line is representing:
: 1) he was boated on the turn or 2) he made a straight on the flop and worry
: about the boat on the turn, then try to get some more value after you check
: two streets. 3) he is trying to bluff with the 2 lines above with busted
: draws if his thinking level is one level above normal reg 4) he is bluffing
: with busted draws regardless of his line just because you checked twice if
: his thinking level is one level below normal reg.
: 说了一堆废话，i guess it depends on the opponents in the end.
|
p****0
发帖数: 611 | 6 1200=24bb
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: How much BTN 3bet on flop?
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p****0
发帖数: 611 | 7 normal reg 那就是MM老师列出的1 和 2？
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: worry
: check
: bluffing
: 未知玩家的话，就用normal reg的thinking level来处理吧，clear fold for me
|
p****0
发帖数: 611 | 8 看来是50/50啊，对opponent 没有 read， 是不是该take 1） 和 2）了？
worry
check
bluffing
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 7.8
【在 W********m 的大作中提到】
: river all in is around pot size?
: I think his line is representing:
: 1) he was boated on the turn or 2) he made a straight on the flop and worry
: about the boat on the turn, then try to get some more value after you check
: two streets. 3) he is trying to bluff with the 2 lines above with busted
: draws if his thinking level is one level above normal reg 4) he is bluffing
: with busted draws regardless of his line just because you checked twice if
: his thinking level is one level below normal reg.
: 说了一堆废话，i guess it depends on the opponents in the end.
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | |
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 10
是
MM老湿的分析的精髓在于，不管对手是高一个level或者第一个level，他们的表现是相
同的。
对对手没有special read的情况下，我90%在这里跪了。当然，因为我们还是有一定
show down value，我更喜欢在这里，lead out 1/4到1/3，这样的话，可以discourage
很大的一部分bluff
【在 p****0 的大作中提到】
: normal reg 那就是MM老师列出的1 和 2？
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|
|
p****0
发帖数: 611 | 11 嗯，这个 blocking bet 不错，我喜欢。
再延伸一下，如果你是villain （normal reg)
case 1: turn full house or flop straight,
1.1: 面对未知对手，会采取什么样的line最好？
1.2: 面对normal reg，会采取什么样的line最好？
1.3：面对fish，会采取什么样的line最好？
1.4：面对level 1+ normal reg, 会采取什么样的line最好？
case 2: busted draw
2.1: 面对未知对手，会采取什么样的line最好？
2.2: 面对normal reg，会采取什么样的line最好？
2.3：面对fish，会采取什么样的line最好？
2.4：面对level 1+ normal reg, 会采取什么样的line最好？
当然，case 2 you can fold for all scenarios.
以上两种cases，Villain 又可分为
A:normal reg (上面列出）
B:高一个level的 reg，
C: 低一个level的reg， or
D: fish。
discourage
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: 是
: MM老湿的分析的精髓在于，不管对手是高一个level或者第一个level，他们的表现是相
: 同的。
: 对对手没有special read的情况下，我90%在这里跪了。当然，因为我们还是有一定
: show down value，我更喜欢在这里，lead out 1/4到1/3，这样的话，可以discourage
: 很大的一部分bluff
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 12 这个turn很多weak reg 会用JJ J10的牌check back, slow play full house 希望对手
improve river 或bluff river. 其实这是一个leak. 这里的board super wet, 应该
fast play shove turn, maximize value.
这牌在turn 的value 比river 大太多了。 很多draw 牌 都在turn 会call 的因为已基
本套池了。特别对手如果会读一点牌的weak reg, 基本会觉得这里你不会用full house
shove， 因为他们自己会在这个spot 错误地选择slow play， 所以会把一些不是outs
的outs 算进去， 错误的call 下来。 相反在river 因为他们牌不会再improve, 就变
成一个bluff 不bluff, 抓不抓bluff 的问题， 这样你基本都会失去value.
更深一步，这里shove turn 还可以用来balance 你的turn semi-bluff range. 如果
你在这里check nuts， 反而shove turn with semi bluff, 那么你这个turn 的line
很容易被exploit.
【在 p****0 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，这个 blocking bet 不错，我喜欢。
: 再延伸一下，如果你是villain （normal reg)
: case 1: turn full house or flop straight,
: 1.1: 面对未知对手，会采取什么样的line最好？
: 1.2: 面对normal reg，会采取什么样的line最好？
: 1.3：面对fish，会采取什么样的line最好？
: 1.4：面对level 1+ normal reg, 会采取什么样的line最好？
: case 2: busted draw
: 2.1: 面对未知对手，会采取什么样的line最好？
: 2.2: 面对normal reg，会采取什么样的line最好？
|
d*****0
发帖数: 1500 | 13
我觉得给对手贴fish donk reg good reg等标签，意义不大。判断对手的thinking
level才是关键。拿这手牌来说，如果我是hero，我会回放对手之前的所有信息，最好
是有showdown的牌局。针对这个spot，我会更关注
1 从showdown或者vpip/pfr判断对手的range
2 对手之前raise过的牌局
3 对手有没有over play的历史
4 对手有没有float的历史
5 对手是不是selective aggressive，即对手是看着自己的牌打还是看人
6 对手有没有总在尝试相同的情况，不同的玩法，即是不是tricky player
一般和对手同桌几个小时，这些信息会慢慢reveal。这样的话，这个spot就相对容易决
定。
如果，真的找不到有用的信息的话，我会结合这个级别整体的tendency，按照abc来玩
。比如，这个spot是foxwoods 300买入，且离钱圈还很远，我会check turn，lead
small river。
换做我是villain，并且turn hit boat，我会在turn上持续下注略小于1/2，理由mm老
湿说得很清楚了，如果在turn上得不到value，那river能得到的就更少了。而如果我是
busted draw的话，我会check turn check river，因为就我个人感觉而言，live 300
买入级别，大多数人在这么low的SPR的情况下，是没有能力fold over pair或者tp的，
当然前提是互相没有信息。
【在 p****0 的大作中提到】
: 嗯，这个 blocking bet 不错，我喜欢。
: 再延伸一下，如果你是villain （normal reg)
: case 1: turn full house or flop straight,
: 1.1: 面对未知对手，会采取什么样的line最好？
: 1.2: 面对normal reg，会采取什么样的line最好？
: 1.3：面对fish，会采取什么样的line最好？
: 1.4：面对level 1+ normal reg, 会采取什么样的line最好？
: case 2: busted draw
: 2.1: 面对未知对手，会采取什么样的line最好？
: 2.2: 面对normal reg，会采取什么样的line最好？
|
p****0
发帖数: 611 | 14 赞仔细分析。
其实这手牌Villain is me. I had 86s with busted draw. Was trying to play
aggressively at the early stage. I took those lines, trying to play like I
had a nut or str8. But villain snap called my all in on the rive. And he
said, it's snap call, man. I can only say, what a fish :-) One of the reg
later told me that guy was busted out soon since he played any two style.
在没有对手信息的情况下，还是play ABC才是王道啊。 Lesson learned again.
【在 d*****0 的大作中提到】
:
: 我觉得给对手贴fish donk reg good reg等标签，意义不大。判断对手的thinking
: level才是关键。拿这手牌来说，如果我是hero，我会回放对手之前的所有信息，最好
: 是有showdown的牌局。针对这个spot，我会更关注
: 1 从showdown或者vpip/pfr判断对手的range
: 2 对手之前raise过的牌局
: 3 对手有没有over play的历史
: 4 对手有没有float的历史
: 5 对手是不是selective aggressive，即对手是看着自己的牌打还是看人
: 6 对手有没有总在尝试相同的情况，不同的玩法，即是不是tricky player
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 15 check turn, shove river 不是一条很好的line for value, 也不是一条很好的bluff
line. 看上去很矛盾吧？ 哈哈。。。 其实不矛盾。。。
I
【在 p****0 的大作中提到】
: 赞仔细分析。
: 其实这手牌Villain is me. I had 86s with busted draw. Was trying to play
: aggressively at the early stage. I took those lines, trying to play like I
: had a nut or str8. But villain snap called my all in on the rive. And he
: said, it's snap call, man. I can only say, what a fish :-) One of the reg
: later told me that guy was busted out soon since he played any two style.
: 在没有对手信息的情况下，还是play ABC才是王道啊。 Lesson learned again.
|
W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 16 看来珍珠大牛是我三楼里的3) 哈。 对level 2 的reg 有用，没想到碰到对手是
level 1?
哈哈。
I
【在 p****0 的大作中提到】
: 赞仔细分析。
: 其实这手牌Villain is me. I had 86s with busted draw. Was trying to play
: aggressively at the early stage. I took those lines, trying to play like I
: had a nut or str8. But villain snap called my all in on the rive. And he
: said, it's snap call, man. I can only say, what a fish :-) One of the reg
: later told me that guy was busted out soon since he played any two style.
: 在没有对手信息的情况下，还是play ABC才是王道啊。 Lesson learned again.
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