s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 1 200NL, 6 Max
CO: ~$200 an aggressive sticky player that steals often
SB: Hero ~$400 8h6c
Preflop:
CO open to $4
Hero calls from SB
Everybody else fold
Flop: Th4c4s
Hero check
CO cbet $6
Hero raise to $14
CO reraise to $29
Hero reraise to $45
CO fold |
p****0
发帖数: 611 | 2 good play. I'm wondering how often your oop bluff got caught? |
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 3 Not often enough to stop me from doing it. :-)
【在 p****0 的大作中提到】
: good play. I'm wondering how often your oop bluff got caught?
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n***a
发帖数: 274 | |
m*****g
发帖数: 3029 | |
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 6 哪一步？
【在 n***a 的大作中提到】
: 这把牌没咋看懂，分析下思路？
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p******a
发帖数: 975 | 7 这个就是传说中的level war啊，或者说是chicken game |
n***a
发帖数: 274 | 8 min raise 4bet 的fe有多少？
如果对手call 4bet，turn/river plan 是什么？ |
p******a
发帖数: 975 | 9 The mental game is probably like this (correct me if I was wrong)
Hero: dry board, villain most likely has nothing
Villain: dry board, if he has anything, he will just call, if he has a
weak over pair, I have 6 outs, and fold Equity
Hero: If he has anything, he will just call...
so on so forth
I personally don't like this play even with some reading. A player that is
one level lower or higher than me may just shove small over pair or even AK,
AQ. I am not sure if I will have enough EV. |
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 10 My read is Villain has over pair but hero pretend to have 4.
Just play ABC to deal with this kind of play. |
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p******a
发帖数: 975 | 11 I don't even think villain has AK
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: My read is Villain has over pair but hero pretend to have 4.
: Just play ABC to deal with this kind of play.
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 12 What is the point of their playing this way.
I mean if I have nothing, I just fold and lose $2. If I have something I
could win $100.
对这种远离牌力的打法，你只要回归牌力，有牌就打，没牌就fold。
【在 p******a 的大作中提到】
: I don't even think villain has AK
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s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 13 If he calls, I will just check fold.
What I like about this 4bet is I only need to bet very light.
【在 n***a 的大作中提到】
: min raise 4bet 的fe有多少？
: 如果对手call 4bet，turn/river plan 是什么？
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 14 You are right. I wouldn't do it against someone I have no read.
AK,
【在 p******a 的大作中提到】
: The mental game is probably like this (correct me if I was wrong)
: Hero: dry board, villain most likely has nothing
: Villain: dry board, if he has anything, he will just call, if he has a
: weak over pair, I have 6 outs, and fold Equity
: Hero: If he has anything, he will just call...
: so on so forth
: I personally don't like this play even with some reading. A player that is
: one level lower or higher than me may just shove small over pair or even AK,
: AQ. I am not sure if I will have enough EV.
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 15 I don't think he has anything.
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: My read is Villain has over pair but hero pretend to have 4.
: Just play ABC to deal with this kind of play.
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 16 For a flop like that, it is hard to win a big pot. Villain hardly has
anything that can pay you off.
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: What is the point of their playing this way.
: I mean if I have nothing, I just fold and lose $2. If I have something I
: could win $100.
: 对这种远离牌力的打法，你只要回归牌力，有牌就打，没牌就fold。
|
p****0
发帖数: 611 | 17 what if he re-re-raised back light?
will you re-raise or fold?
【在 s*****s 的大作中提到】
: If he calls, I will just check fold.
: What I like about this 4bet is I only need to bet very light.
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 18 I would fold.
If you look at the stack pot ratio, another raise from him is getting into
his commitment range.
【在 p****0 的大作中提到】
: what if he re-re-raised back light?
: will you re-raise or fold?
|
A*******e
发帖数: 4024 | 19 If I am the villain, I will just call your check raise and see what happens
next. I won't four bet you because
1. I am trying to control the pot.
2. I call to tell you I have something, maybe strong enough to trap you,
maybe not.
3. Out-of-position bluff is always tough, you don't know whether villain's
check is being scared or just check to control the pot. 50/50 chance.
【在 s*****s 的大作中提到】
: 200NL, 6 Max
: CO: ~$200 an aggressive sticky player that steals often
: SB: Hero ~$400 8h6c
: Preflop:
: CO open to $4
: Hero calls from SB
: Everybody else fold
: Flop: Th4c4s
: Hero check
: CO cbet $6
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 20 对啊。
既然双方都知道call就代表真有牌，那么call一下就赢对手啦。
继续raise不是有点愚蠢？
happens
【在 A*******e 的大作中提到】
: If I am the villain, I will just call your check raise and see what happens
: next. I won't four bet you because
: 1. I am trying to control the pot.
: 2. I call to tell you I have something, maybe strong enough to trap you,
: maybe not.
: 3. Out-of-position bluff is always tough, you don't know whether villain's
: check is being scared or just check to control the pot. 50/50 chance.
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n***a
发帖数: 274 | 21 Hero is risking $31 to win a $51 pot, while offering villain an odds of $16
to win $82.
imoh, unless hero has a ton of history with this villain, personally I'd
think there's not enough fe to make this play profitable.
Personally if I were the villain, I'd float with a lot of hands to this 4-
bet. And almost all hands if I chose to min 3-bet with. |
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 22 问题是双方都没有牌,所以都没法call.
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: 对啊。
: 既然双方都知道call就代表真有牌，那么call一下就赢对手啦。
: 继续raise不是有点愚蠢？
:
: happens
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 23 I don't have a ton of history of villain. Only half an hour on that table.
If you are the Villain, what would you call with considering such an
attractive odds?
16
【在 n***a 的大作中提到】
: Hero is risking $31 to win a $51 pot, while offering villain an odds of $16
: to win $82.
: imoh, unless hero has a ton of history with this villain, personally I'd
: think there's not enough fe to make this play profitable.
: Personally if I were the villain, I'd float with a lot of hands to this 4-
: bet. And almost all hands if I chose to min 3-bet with.
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 24 那你不是认为他没牌吗？你不是认为他没牌你才raise的吗？
对一个没牌的，你不需要有牌才call啊。只要call比raise敌人更怕就行啦。
或者是你心里其实并不认为他没牌吧。
【在 s*****s 的大作中提到】
: 问题是双方都没有牌,所以都没法call.
|
n***a
发帖数: 274 | 25 This was a good read and obviously winning play. My question was on the
raising sizes.
With position, I'd probably call with all pp, any A and back door straight
draw. If I were the villain, who was up for a 3-bet bluff, the size would
have been significantly bigger though.
【在 s*****s 的大作中提到】
: I don't have a ton of history of villain. Only half an hour on that table.
: If you are the Villain, what would you call with considering such an
: attractive odds?
:
: 16
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 26 问题是call了之后怎么继续呢? 特别是out of position
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: 那你不是认为他没牌吗？你不是认为他没牌你才raise的吗？
: 对一个没牌的，你不需要有牌才call啊。只要call比raise敌人更怕就行啦。
: 或者是你心里其实并不认为他没牌吧。
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 27 你call了以后check turn，他肯定也check吧？
然后bet river他会如何？
【在 s*****s 的大作中提到】
: 问题是call了之后怎么继续呢? 特别是out of position
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 28 If Villain has a pair or even two over cards, I would expect him to call me
in position instead of reraise my check raise. His action really narrows
him down to either nothing or nuts.
When he reraise, he probably was thinking the same thing. I either had nuts
or nothing, so there is no point for him to bet big.
【在 n***a 的大作中提到】
: This was a good read and obviously winning play. My question was on the
: raising sizes.
: With position, I'd probably call with all pp, any A and back door straight
: draw. If I were the villain, who was up for a 3-bet bluff, the size would
: have been significantly bigger though.
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 29 In both cases, I have to bluff him off. With what I have, I can't go to
showdown.
If I take your line, I probably have to risk more to win the same and give
him two free cards
【在 w***w 的大作中提到】
: 你call了以后check turn，他肯定也check吧？
: 然后bet river他会如何？
|
q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 30 这牌S兄打的很好，稍可以改进的是4-BET SIZE可以大一点。本来4-BET基本就拿下的
POT，现在你BET这么小，碰到有些不错的对手，会FLOAT一下再看情况。我应该会BET到
66到74之间吧。一般4-BET BLUFF就不能给对手可以FLOATING的空间了，只给他SHOVE
OR FOLD的选择。 |
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A*******e
发帖数: 4024 | 31 That is exactly what I was saying. His 4bet is a little bit too less. So if
I was the villain, I will just call and tried to float him.
【在 q****8 的大作中提到】
: 这牌S兄打的很好，稍可以改进的是4-BET SIZE可以大一点。本来4-BET基本就拿下的
: POT，现在你BET这么小，碰到有些不错的对手，会FLOAT一下再看情况。我应该会BET到
: 66到74之间吧。一般4-BET BLUFF就不能给对手可以FLOATING的空间了，只给他SHOVE
: OR FOLD的选择。
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n***a
发帖数: 274 | 32 同意几位看法。虫兄你是从3bet size看出weak的么？如果villain ３bet $35-40你
4bet概率有多大？size会多少？
【在 q****8 的大作中提到】
: 这牌S兄打的很好，稍可以改进的是4-BET SIZE可以大一点。本来4-BET基本就拿下的
: POT，现在你BET这么小，碰到有些不错的对手，会FLOAT一下再看情况。我应该会BET到
: 66到74之间吧。一般4-BET BLUFF就不能给对手可以FLOATING的空间了，只给他SHOVE
: OR FOLD的选择。
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W********m
发帖数: 7793 | 33 我说怎么似曾相识。 原来是Phil Ivey 水准的bluff!
http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=--Qap3VT_ZY
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 8.6
【在 s*****s 的大作中提到】
: 200NL, 6 Max
: CO: ~$200 an aggressive sticky player that steals often
: SB: Hero ~$400 8h6c
: Preflop:
: CO open to $4
: Hero calls from SB
: Everybody else fold
: Flop: Th4c4s
: Hero check
: CO cbet $6
|
s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 34 Qing兄说的也有道理，不要让对方有float的机会. 我是bet的特别小，我一般也很少搞
这么小的bet. 这次主要是两个原因，第一是我不觉得他的牌可以float我，如果可以，
他之前就不会raise我了,第二是我觉得搞得小了更象是我在trap他或者induce他再
raise. 我这手牌玩得是比较奇特的。正好我这次对他的估计比较准，如果他想得更多
或者更少，我这么都是不对的。
【在 q****8 的大作中提到】
: 这牌S兄打的很好，稍可以改进的是4-BET SIZE可以大一点。本来4-BET基本就拿下的
: POT，现在你BET这么小，碰到有些不错的对手，会FLOAT一下再看情况。我应该会BET到
: 66到74之间吧。一般4-BET BLUFF就不能给对手可以FLOATING的空间了，只给他SHOVE
: OR FOLD的选择。
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s*****s
发帖数: 1130 | 35 It is more about his image and his 2bb steal from CO than his reraise size.
【在 n***a 的大作中提到】
: 同意几位看法。虫兄你是从3bet size看出weak的么？如果villain ３bet $35-40你
: 4bet概率有多大？size会多少？
|
