L******N
发帖数: 1858 | 1 http://cclw.net/gospel/asking/sjnthb/htm/chapter45.html
亚伯拉罕离开哈兰时，是否只有七十五岁？
根据使徒行传七4，司提反断言亚伯拉罕于其父他拉去世后才离开哈兰。但从创世
记十一32可知，他拉活至二百零五岁。又参看创世记十一26，他拉于七十岁时生亚伯拉
罕，那么，亚伯拉罕离开哈兰时，岂不是一百三十五岁吗？创世记明明记载亚伯拉罕迁
徙迦南时，年七十五；于是，司提反将亚伯拉罕的时间往后拖了六十年，而亚伯拉罕也
必定于他拉死前六十年已移居迦南。
事情不是这样糟糕，司提反所言并非虚构。创世记十一26记载：「他拉活到七十岁
，生了亚伯兰、拿鹤、哈兰。」一般来说，一连串名字的首个是长子，但也有例外的。
虽然创世记十一26首先提及亚伯兰，但他并非长子。他拉的三个儿子当中，似乎哈兰最
大，因为他最先逝世(参创十一28)。至于拿鹤何时去世，我们不得而知，只知他的寿命
比哈兰长，到了以撒娶妻时，拿鹤的后裔拉班及利百加仍居于哈兰地。但为什么创世记
十一26将亚伯拉罕的名字放在首位呢？最有可能的原因是亚伯拉罕的重要性比其余两人
高。他拉应于一百三十岁时生亚 |
l*****y
发帖数: 9433 | 2 整个的偷换概念，很可怜
建立在这种想法基础上面的信仰比小孩子的空想家园还可笑 |
w*******e
发帖数: 6802 | 3 谢谢姐妹的转载介绍。
今天读到永生弟兄的这篇新文章，觉得写得不错。
http://www.mitbbs.com/article_t/TrustInJesus/125339.html
【在 L******N 的大作中提到】
: http://cclw.net/gospel/asking/sjnthb/htm/chapter45.html
: 亚伯拉罕离开哈兰时，是否只有七十五岁？
: 根据使徒行传七4，司提反断言亚伯拉罕于其父他拉去世后才离开哈兰。但从创世
: 记十一32可知，他拉活至二百零五岁。又参看创世记十一26，他拉于七十岁时生亚伯拉
: 罕，那么，亚伯拉罕离开哈兰时，岂不是一百三十五岁吗？创世记明明记载亚伯拉罕迁
: 徙迦南时，年七十五；于是，司提反将亚伯拉罕的时间往后拖了六十年，而亚伯拉罕也
: 必定于他拉死前六十年已移居迦南。
: 事情不是这样糟糕，司提反所言并非虚构。创世记十一26记载：「他拉活到七十岁
: ，生了亚伯兰、拿鹤、哈兰。」一般来说，一连串名字的首个是长子，但也有例外的。
: 虽然创世记十一26首先提及亚伯兰，但他并非长子。他拉的三个儿子当中，似乎哈兰最
|
w******0
发帖数: 1404 | 4 Gen 11:26 literal translation is:
When Terah was 70 years, he became the father of Abram, of Nahor, and of
Haran.
There is no way from this verse to conclude who is the first born. The three
names are totally parallel syntactically in the Hebrew text. Surely Terah
cannot beget them together. This verse can only mean Terah begot the first
son at 70. The proposal that Haran is the firstborn makes sense when
considering Gen 11:28-29 in a natural way.
【在 l*****y 的大作中提到】
: 整个的偷换概念，很可怜
: 建立在这种想法基础上面的信仰比小孩子的空想家园还可笑
|
s******g
发帖数: 5074 | 5 doesn't make any difference, brother...
three
Terah
first
【在 w******0 的大作中提到】
: Gen 11:26 literal translation is:
: When Terah was 70 years, he became the father of Abram, of Nahor, and of
: Haran.
: There is no way from this verse to conclude who is the first born. The three
: names are totally parallel syntactically in the Hebrew text. Surely Terah
: cannot beget them together. This verse can only mean Terah begot the first
: son at 70. The proposal that Haran is the firstborn makes sense when
: considering Gen 11:28-29 in a natural way.
|
l*****y
发帖数: 9433 | 6 时间膨胀更说得过去点
【在 s******g 的大作中提到】
: doesn't make any difference, brother...
:
: three
: Terah
: first
|
t*******d
发帖数: 2570 | 7 If Abram does not even exist when Terah is 70 years old, how can you say
Terah became the father of Abram when he was 70 years?
three
Terah
【在 w******0 的大作中提到】
: Gen 11:26 literal translation is:
: When Terah was 70 years, he became the father of Abram, of Nahor, and of
: Haran.
: There is no way from this verse to conclude who is the first born. The three
: names are totally parallel syntactically in the Hebrew text. Surely Terah
: cannot beget them together. This verse can only mean Terah begot the first
: son at 70. The proposal that Haran is the firstborn makes sense when
: considering Gen 11:28-29 in a natural way.
|
l*****y
发帖数: 9433 | 8 那咱么用现代人的话来说，
在你小歪歪70岁的时候，你成为了阿大阿尔阿三的父亲
这句话明确的表示了你在70岁才生出来阿大， 而阿二阿三在你70岁的时候还不存在么？
of
three
Terah
first
【在 w******0 的大作中提到】
: Gen 11:26 literal translation is:
: When Terah was 70 years, he became the father of Abram, of Nahor, and of
: Haran.
: There is no way from this verse to conclude who is the first born. The three
: names are totally parallel syntactically in the Hebrew text. Surely Terah
: cannot beget them together. This verse can only mean Terah begot the first
: son at 70. The proposal that Haran is the firstborn makes sense when
: considering Gen 11:28-29 in a natural way.
|
w******0
发帖数: 1404 | 9 Please read carefully what I wrote before. Thanks
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】
: If Abram does not even exist when Terah is 70 years old, how can you say
: Terah became the father of Abram when he was 70 years?
:
: three
: Terah
|
w******0
发帖数: 1404 | 10 The problem is the gap between the ancient Hebrew and modern language/
understanding.
We can translate as this to better capture the nuance:
When Terah was 70 years, he was becoming the father of Abram, of Nahor, and
of Haran.
么？
【在 l*****y 的大作中提到】
: 那咱么用现代人的话来说，
: 在你小歪歪70岁的时候，你成为了阿大阿尔阿三的父亲
: 这句话明确的表示了你在70岁才生出来阿大， 而阿二阿三在你70岁的时候还不存在么？
:
: of
: three
: Terah
: first
|
|
|
l*****y
发帖数: 9433 | 11 was becoming?
and
【在 w******0 的大作中提到】
: The problem is the gap between the ancient Hebrew and modern language/
: understanding.
: We can translate as this to better capture the nuance:
: When Terah was 70 years, he was becoming the father of Abram, of Nahor, and
: of Haran.
:
: 么？
|
w******0
发帖数: 1404 | 12 Yes. That means it was a procedure, not a specific event.
【在 l*****y 的大作中提到】
: was becoming?
:
: and
|
s******g
发帖数: 5074 | 13 我回复过钱夫人了, 如果terah 130岁生子的话,
abram在17章的"暗笑"就说不通了.
【在 w******0 的大作中提到】
: Yes. That means it was a procedure, not a specific event.
|
w******0
发帖数: 1404 | 14 Good question. However, the problem is not Abraham, the problem is Sarah (
Gen 18:11)! Actually Abraham got another wife and had other kids (Gen 25:1-2
). Moreover, Terah had the first son at 70 rather than Abraham at 100 (Gen
21:5). So, it's not unreasonable for Abraham to laugh, and therefore, no
contradiction with Gen 11:26. Moreover, Tarah lived 205 years (11:32),
Abraham lived 175 (25:7) and Sarah 127 (23:1). So if Abraham could have
Issac at 100, it's not a big deal for Terah to have Abrah
【在 s******g 的大作中提到】
: 我回复过钱夫人了, 如果terah 130岁生子的话,
: abram在17章的"暗笑"就说不通了.
|
l*****y
发帖数: 9433 | 15 你这貌似就是钱夫人的问题
(
25:1-2
(Gen
【在 w******0 的大作中提到】
: Good question. However, the problem is not Abraham, the problem is Sarah (
: Gen 18:11)! Actually Abraham got another wife and had other kids (Gen 25:1-2
: ). Moreover, Terah had the first son at 70 rather than Abraham at 100 (Gen
: 21:5). So, it's not unreasonable for Abraham to laugh, and therefore, no
: contradiction with Gen 11:26. Moreover, Tarah lived 205 years (11:32),
: Abraham lived 175 (25:7) and Sarah 127 (23:1). So if Abraham could have
: Issac at 100, it's not a big deal for Terah to have Abrah
|
h**z
发帖数: 196 | 16 我在网上找了有关这个问题的专业文章。
http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v12/i1/chronology.asp
作者：Pete Williams. At time of writing, he was carrying out post-doctoral
research on weapons in Ancient Hebrew at the Faculty of Divinity, University
of Cambridge
我个人赞同他拉一百三十岁时生亚伯兰。
第一、创11:26节中，他拉在70岁“生了”完全能解释为“开始生”
第二、亚伯兰在排序上是第一个，但不一定说他是长子。比如：代上1:28"亚伯拉罕的
儿子是以撒、以实玛利。"以实玛利出生比以撒早。
还好，这个问题与我得救恩无关，不用像那位希伯来文博士后那样研究。亚伯兰是长子
与否，完全不影响他的事迹所要我们学习的属灵功课。神拣选亚伯兰，藉着他要赐福万
族，而亚伯兰用信心回应了神的呼召。 |
c******r
发帖数: 889 | 17 奥。圣经是否无误与你信仰无关。
University
【在 h**z 的大作中提到】
: 我在网上找了有关这个问题的专业文章。
: http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v12/i1/chronology.asp
: 作者：Pete Williams. At time of writing, he was carrying out post-doctoral
: research on weapons in Ancient Hebrew at the Faculty of Divinity, University
: of Cambridge
: 我个人赞同他拉一百三十岁时生亚伯兰。
: 第一、创11:26节中，他拉在70岁“生了”完全能解释为“开始生”
: 第二、亚伯兰在排序上是第一个，但不一定说他是长子。比如：代上1:28"亚伯拉罕的
: 儿子是以撒、以实玛利。"以实玛利出生比以撒早。
: 还好，这个问题与我得救恩无关，不用像那位希伯来文博士后那样研究。亚伯兰是长子
|
E*****m
发帖数: 25615 | 18 連 JYM 弟兄都承認聖經有錯誤了， 各位這麼辛苦的辯護有必要嗎? |
s******g
发帖数: 5074 | 19 你自己信吗？
130岁被生出来的人，会不相信100岁能得儿子
何况后面讲了萨拉90岁能不能生孩子，根本是两句话阿
(
25:1-2
(Gen
【在 w******0 的大作中提到】
: Good question. However, the problem is not Abraham, the problem is Sarah (
: Gen 18:11)! Actually Abraham got another wife and had other kids (Gen 25:1-2
: ). Moreover, Terah had the first son at 70 rather than Abraham at 100 (Gen
: 21:5). So, it's not unreasonable for Abraham to laugh, and therefore, no
: contradiction with Gen 11:26. Moreover, Tarah lived 205 years (11:32),
: Abraham lived 175 (25:7) and Sarah 127 (23:1). So if Abraham could have
: Issac at 100, it's not a big deal for Terah to have Abrah
|
s***m
发帖数: 1319 | 20 哪位好心，给画个逻辑示意推导图。。我看见那么长的英文就烦
【在 s******g 的大作中提到】
: 你自己信吗？
: 130岁被生出来的人，会不相信100岁能得儿子
: 何况后面讲了萨拉90岁能不能生孩子，根本是两句话阿
:
: (
: 25:1-2
: (Gen
|
l*****y
发帖数: 9433 | 21 他也许心里不太信，但是一定“要”信，
再说啦，这个很好解释，这厮不懂数学/数字， 根本不知道他老爸爸啥时生得他， 这
不就好了么
你看，狡辩的可能性是无穷无尽的， 特别是圣经这么一个到处都是漏洞的书
【在 s******g 的大作中提到】
: 你自己信吗？
: 130岁被生出来的人，会不相信100岁能得儿子
: 何况后面讲了萨拉90岁能不能生孩子，根本是两句话阿
:
: (
: 25:1-2
: (Gen
|
Y****r
发帖数: 671 | 22
【在 L******N 的大作中提到】
: http://cclw.net/gospel/asking/sjnthb/htm/chapter45.html
: 亚伯拉罕离开哈兰时，是否只有七十五岁？
: 根据使徒行传七4，司提反断言亚伯拉罕于其父他拉去世后才离开哈兰。但从创世
: 记十一32可知，他拉活至二百零五岁。又参看创世记十一26，他拉于七十岁时生亚伯拉
: 罕，那么，亚伯拉罕离开哈兰时，岂不是一百三十五岁吗？创世记明明记载亚伯拉罕迁
: 徙迦南时，年七十五；于是，司提反将亚伯拉罕的时间往后拖了六十年，而亚伯拉罕也
: 必定于他拉死前六十年已移居迦南。
: 事情不是这样糟糕，司提反所言并非虚构。创世记十一26记载：「他拉活到七十岁
: ，生了亚伯兰、拿鹤、哈兰。」一般来说，一连串名字的首个是长子，但也有例外的。
: 虽然创世记十一26首先提及亚伯兰，但他并非长子。他拉的三个儿子当中，似乎哈兰最
|
