R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 1 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to
hear my word.
8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's
desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with th
e truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of hi
s own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
This chapter makes me uncomfortable. Why did Jesus accuse these Jews that t
heir fathers are the devil? The reason was they did not understand what Jes
us said. So this makes their fathers the devil?
This issue is also about "Does Faith Proceed Regeneration or does Regenerati
on Proceed Faith ?" If Jesus at that time did not "open" their eyes (to mak
e them know him), how could Jesus accuse them for not knowing him? "Regener
ation Proceed Faith" makes Jesus Christ unjust.
How about "Faith Proceed Regeneration"? How could Jesus accuse them for not
knowing him just because they failed to put faith in an unknown person?
8: 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
am."
8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and wen
t out of the temple.
After Jesus declared his divinity, he hid from the flying stone and run away
. Does this make any sense to you? What would these Jews think at that tim
e? A crazy guy equaled himself with God, and was driven away by their stone
s. |
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 2 no comments?
to
s
th
hi
t
Jes
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to
: hear my word.
: 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's
: desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with th
: e truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of hi
: s own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
: 8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
: This chapter makes me uncomfortable. Why did Jesus accuse these Jews that t
: heir fathers are the devil? The reason was they did not understand what Jes
: us said. So this makes their fathers the devil?
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 3 第一个问题，耶稣是针对犹太人说他们的父是“亚伯拉罕”说的，说其实他们的父是魔
鬼。
一个人的重生有神的作为也有人的责任，人必须要相信才行。
8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to
hear my word.
8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's
desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with th
e truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of hi
s own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
This chapter makes me uncomfortable. Why did Jesus accuse these Jews that t
heir fathers are the devil? The reason was they did not understand what Jes
us said. So this makes their fathers the devil?
This issue is also about "Does Faith Proceed Regeneration or does Regenerati
on Proceed Faith ?" If Jesus at that time did not "open" their eyes (to mak
e them know him), how could Jesus accuse them for not knowing him? "Regener
ation Proceed Faith" makes Jesus Christ unjust.
to
s
th
hi
t
Jes
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to
: hear my word.
: 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's
: desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with th
: e truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of hi
: s own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
: 8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
: This chapter makes me uncomfortable. Why did Jesus accuse these Jews that t
: heir fathers are the devil? The reason was they did not understand what Jes
: us said. So this makes their fathers the devil?
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 4 8: 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
am."
8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and wen
t out of the temple.
After Jesus declared his divinity, he hid from the flying stone and run away
. Does this make any sense to you? What would these Jews think at that tim
e? A crazy guy equaled himself with God, and was driven away by their stone
s.
最根本的是神的道，神的话。神迹奇事也有很多，最大的神迹就是约拿的神迹。
正如第七章那里所说的，耶稣行了很多的神迹，但是还是不信。所以耶稣不是主要靠神
迹来传道的。
保罗说的好
林前 1:22 犹太人是要神迹，希腊人是求智慧； 林前 1:23 我们却是传钉十字架的基
督，在犹太人为绊脚石，在外邦人为愚拙； 林前 1:24 但在那蒙召的，无论是犹太人
、希腊人，基督总为 神的能力， 神的智慧。
耶稣也早就说过了
路 16:31 亚伯拉罕说：‘若不听从摩西和先知的话，就是有一个从死里复活的，他们
也是不听劝。
to
s
th
hi
t
Jes
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to
: hear my word.
: 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's
: desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with th
: e truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of hi
: s own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
: 8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
: This chapter makes me uncomfortable. Why did Jesus accuse these Jews that t
: heir fathers are the devil? The reason was they did not understand what Jes
: us said. So this makes their fathers the devil?
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 5 I think both John's testimony and your interpretation are questionable. God
need our faith, but not blind faith. God is love.
Those Pharisees only know the scriptures (just like you) but know nothing ab
out love. Why did Jesus Christ cure people in the sabbath day? Can he choo
se another day? Sure he can. Jesus broke the Jewish law to give us a messa
ge. That is God is LOVE. God is not a cold blood being who only like your
blind faith.
to
s
th
hi
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: 第一个问题，耶稣是针对犹太人说他们的父是“亚伯拉罕”说的，说其实他们的父是魔
: 鬼。
: 一个人的重生有神的作为也有人的责任，人必须要相信才行。
: 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to
: hear my word.
: 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's
: desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with th
: e truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of hi
: s own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
: 8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 6 So bad John told us a bad story
I
wen
away
tim
stone
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: 8: 58 Jesus said to them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I
: am."
: 8:59 So they picked up stones to throw at him, but Jesus hid himself and wen
: t out of the temple.
: After Jesus declared his divinity, he hid from the flying stone and run away
: . Does this make any sense to you? What would these Jews think at that tim
: e? A crazy guy equaled himself with God, and was driven away by their stone
: s.
: 最根本的是神的道，神的话。神迹奇事也有很多，最大的神迹就是约拿的神迹。
: 正如第七章那里所说的，耶稣行了很多的神迹，但是还是不信。所以耶稣不是主要靠神
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 7 呵呵
如果真知道圣经，自然真知道爱。因为神就是爱，神要我们做的也是爱。
读完约翰福音你可以读约翰一二三书，看看什么是爱。
God
ab
choo
messa
your
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: I think both John's testimony and your interpretation are questionable. God
: need our faith, but not blind faith. God is love.
: Those Pharisees only know the scriptures (just like you) but know nothing ab
: out love. Why did Jesus Christ cure people in the sabbath day? Can he choo
: se another day? Sure he can. Jesus broke the Jewish law to give us a messa
: ge. That is God is LOVE. God is not a cold blood being who only like your
: blind faith.
:
: to
: s
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 8 calvinism is a cult if you do know what is God's love
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵
: 如果真知道圣经，自然真知道爱。因为神就是爱，神要我们做的也是爱。
: 读完约翰福音你可以读约翰一二三书，看看什么是爱。
:
: God
: ab
: choo
: messa
: your
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 9 慢慢读，别着急。
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: calvinism is a cult if you do know what is God's love
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 10 I hope you can know the truth of love sooner
彼后3:9 主所应许的尚未成就，有人以为他是耽延，其实不是耽延，乃是宽容你们，不
愿有一人沉沦，乃愿人人都悔改。
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: 慢慢读，别着急。
|
|
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 11 这个急不来的，我们不能断章取义，必须一点点读，全面的读。
约翰福音就是一本很好的书。读完这个，读约翰123书，或者罗马书？
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: I hope you can know the truth of love sooner
: 彼后3:9 主所应许的尚未成就，有人以为他是耽延，其实不是耽延，乃是宽容你们，不
: 愿有一人沉沦，乃愿人人都悔改。
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 12 then you read <大学>
http://www.douban.com/group/topic/2058726/
if you can finish 四书，I finish the new testament
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: 这个急不来的，我们不能断章取义，必须一点点读，全面的读。
: 约翰福音就是一本很好的书。读完这个，读约翰123书，或者罗马书？
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 13 看神的带领吧
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: then you read <大学>
: http://www.douban.com/group/topic/2058726/
: if you can finish 四书，I finish the new testament
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 14 listen this song
http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/0hhLb2m6RHE/
The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want; He makes me lie down in green pas
tures. He leads me beside still waters; ...
【在 G*******s 的大作中提到】
: 看神的带领吧
|
G*******s
发帖数: 4956 | 15 Psalm 23
pas
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: listen this song
: http://www.tudou.com/programs/view/0hhLb2m6RHE/
: The Lord is my shepherd, I shall not want; He makes me lie down in green pas
: tures. He leads me beside still waters; ...
|
S*********o
发帖数: 1334 | 16 约翰福音8：40我将在神那里所听见的真理，告诉了你们，现在你们却想要杀我；这不
是亚伯拉罕所行的事。
耶稣这番话是对这些人讲的，说他们是魔鬼的儿子并不为过。耶稣说他们是魔鬼的儿子
的原因是“（8：45）我将真理告诉你们，你们就因此不信我”，这是知道是真理却偏
偏不信，正是因为知道是真理所以不信，不是懂不懂的问题。
to
s
th
hi
t
Jes
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: 8:43 Why do you not understand what I say? It is because you cannot bear to
: hear my word.
: 8:44 You are of your father the devil, and your will is to do your father's
: desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, and has nothing to do with th
: e truth, because there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks out of hi
: s own character, for he is a liar and the father of lies.
: 8:45 But because I tell the truth, you do not believe me.
: This chapter makes me uncomfortable. Why did Jesus accuse these Jews that t
: heir fathers are the devil? The reason was they did not understand what Jes
: us said. So this makes their fathers the devil?
|
l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 17 耶稣神迹行的太少了可能， 他要是当众表演一个空中飞行， 或者说挂掉后复活能让整
个以色列都看到的话，犹太教徒就不会到现在还认为他是个假造的弥赛亚了吧
【在 S*********o 的大作中提到】
: 约翰福音8：40我将在神那里所听见的真理，告诉了你们，现在你们却想要杀我；这不
: 是亚伯拉罕所行的事。
: 耶稣这番话是对这些人讲的，说他们是魔鬼的儿子并不为过。耶稣说他们是魔鬼的儿子
: 的原因是“（8：45）我将真理告诉你们，你们就因此不信我”，这是知道是真理却偏
: 偏不信，正是因为知道是真理所以不信，不是懂不懂的问题。
:
: to
: s
: th
: hi
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 18 they knew the scriptures, but they did not know how to love people.
孟子说：“君子与一般人不同的地方在于，他内心所怀的念头 不同。君子内心所怀的念
头是仁，是礼。仁爱的人爱别人，礼让 的人尊敬别人。爱别人的人，别人也经常爱他；
尊敬别人的人，别 人也经常尊敬他。假定这里有个人，他对我蛮横无礼，那君子必 定
反躬自问：我一定不仁，一定无礼吧，不然的话，他怎么会对 我这样呢？如果反躬自问
是仁的，是有礼的，而那人仍然蛮横无 礼，君子必定再次反躬自问：我一定不忠吧？如
果反躬自问是忠 的，而那人仍然蛮横无礼，君子就会说：‘这人不过是个狂人罢了。
“这样的人和禽兽有什么区别呢？而对禽兽又有什么可责难的呢？’ 所以君子有终身的
忧虑，但没有一朝一夕的祸患。比如说这样的 忧虑是有的：舜是人，我也是人；舜是天
下的楷模，名声传于后 世，可我却不过是一个普通人而已。这个才是值得忧虑的事。忧
虑又怎么办呢？像舜那样做罢了。至于君子别的什么忧患就没有 了。不是仁爱的事不
于，不合于礼的事不做。即使有一朝一夕的 祸患来到，君子也不会感到尤患了。”
【在 S*********o 的大作中提到】
: 约翰福音8：40我将在神那里所听见的真理，告诉了你们，现在你们却想要杀我；这不
: 是亚伯拉罕所行的事。
: 耶稣这番话是对这些人讲的，说他们是魔鬼的儿子并不为过。耶稣说他们是魔鬼的儿子
: 的原因是“（8：45）我将真理告诉你们，你们就因此不信我”，这是知道是真理却偏
: 偏不信，正是因为知道是真理所以不信，不是懂不懂的问题。
:
: to
: s
: th
: hi
|
S*********o
发帖数: 1334 | 19 人不是禽兽，知道真理却不信是有后果的，那后果就是神的审判。对于希特勒，我不觉
得你可以想他不过是个狂人罢了，然后就不责难他，然后被他屠杀的时候就不感到忧患
。这行不通的，这才真正是精神鸦片。基督徒面对这个世界的时候，首先要打的是一场
属灵的争战，用神的真理与爱来胜过世界的谬误与仇恨，对罪我们是要责难的，这是不
可逃避、不可苟且的责任。这一场属灵的争战打好了，这样我们就不会让希特勒有机会
上台动刀、让我们面临是否自己要动刀的两难选择。
的念
他；
自问
？如
。
身的
是天
。忧
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: they knew the scriptures, but they did not know how to love people.
: 孟子说：“君子与一般人不同的地方在于，他内心所怀的念头 不同。君子内心所怀的念
: 头是仁，是礼。仁爱的人爱别人，礼让 的人尊敬别人。爱别人的人，别人也经常爱他；
: 尊敬别人的人，别 人也经常尊敬他。假定这里有个人，他对我蛮横无礼，那君子必 定
: 反躬自问：我一定不仁，一定无礼吧，不然的话，他怎么会对 我这样呢？如果反躬自问
: 是仁的，是有礼的，而那人仍然蛮横无 礼，君子必定再次反躬自问：我一定不忠吧？如
: 果反躬自问是忠 的，而那人仍然蛮横无礼，君子就会说：‘这人不过是个狂人罢了。
: “这样的人和禽兽有什么区别呢？而对禽兽又有什么可责难的呢？’ 所以君子有终身的
: 忧虑，但没有一朝一夕的祸患。比如说这样的 忧虑是有的：舜是人，我也是人；舜是天
: 下的楷模，名声传于后 世，可我却不过是一个普通人而已。这个才是值得忧虑的事。忧
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 20 it seems you don't know how to love the enemies
太5:39 只是我告诉你们，不要与恶人作对。有人打你的右脸，连左脸也转过来由他打.
Do you this is the way Jesus teach us to treat Hitler?
or this way: 或曰：“以德报怨，何如？”子曰：“何以报德？以直报怨，以德报德
。”
【在 S*********o 的大作中提到】
: 人不是禽兽，知道真理却不信是有后果的，那后果就是神的审判。对于希特勒，我不觉
: 得你可以想他不过是个狂人罢了，然后就不责难他，然后被他屠杀的时候就不感到忧患
: 。这行不通的，这才真正是精神鸦片。基督徒面对这个世界的时候，首先要打的是一场
: 属灵的争战，用神的真理与爱来胜过世界的谬误与仇恨，对罪我们是要责难的，这是不
: 可逃避、不可苟且的责任。这一场属灵的争战打好了，这样我们就不会让希特勒有机会
: 上台动刀、让我们面临是否自己要动刀的两难选择。
:
: 的念
: 他；
: 自问
|
|
|
S*********o
发帖数: 1334 | 21 让人打脸可以，不告诉他他的错误却不行，这是耶稣的教导和作为，他斥责法利赛人的
假冒伪善，但在十字架上仍然求父神饶恕他们。孔子讲的也是这个意思，以直报怨，直
就是正直，是在符合神的正义的原则的基础上的爱。所以，爱是要爱的，神的原则也是
要坚持的，而神的审判是神的原则的一部分。可见从孟子开始儒家已经在走下坡路了。
打.
【在 R*o 的大作中提到】
: it seems you don't know how to love the enemies
: 太5:39 只是我告诉你们，不要与恶人作对。有人打你的右脸，连左脸也转过来由他打.
: Do you this is the way Jesus teach us to treat Hitler?
: or this way: 或曰：“以德报怨，何如？”子曰：“何以报德？以直报怨，以德报德
: 。”
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 22 cite your bible, christian
【在 S*********o 的大作中提到】
: 让人打脸可以，不告诉他他的错误却不行，这是耶稣的教导和作为，他斥责法利赛人的
: 假冒伪善，但在十字架上仍然求父神饶恕他们。孔子讲的也是这个意思，以直报怨，直
: 就是正直，是在符合神的正义的原则的基础上的爱。所以，爱是要爱的，神的原则也是
: 要坚持的，而神的审判是神的原则的一部分。可见从孟子开始儒家已经在走下坡路了。
:
: 打.
|
R*o
发帖数: 3781 | 23 「耶和華是良善正直的」（詩二五8）
善——孔子对曰：“子为政，焉用杀。子欲善，而民善矣。君子之德风，小人之德草，
草上之风，必偃。”
直——子曰：“举直错诸枉，能使枉者直。
【在 S*********o 的大作中提到】
: 让人打脸可以，不告诉他他的错误却不行，这是耶稣的教导和作为，他斥责法利赛人的
: 假冒伪善，但在十字架上仍然求父神饶恕他们。孔子讲的也是这个意思，以直报怨，直
: 就是正直，是在符合神的正义的原则的基础上的爱。所以，爱是要爱的，神的原则也是
: 要坚持的，而神的审判是神的原则的一部分。可见从孟子开始儒家已经在走下坡路了。
:
: 打.
|
