l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | | G*****9
发帖数: 3225 | 2 I am not sure about biology. But many of us do rely on faith on some
assumptions or theories, though there is no evidences on these theories.
For example, in the Tranportation Planning of Transportation Engineering, a
very critical assumption is that all participants in transportation tries to
minimize his/her own travel time, regardless of whether his/her
decision on other people's travel time. This results in a type of Nash
equilibrium, which serves as the basics of modern transportation planning.
I once asked a professor specialized in Tranportation Planning whether this
assumption has been validated since we can obtain enough data to do such a
job. He said no and there is not even an attempt to do so. As a result,
goverments spend our money on these unvalidated assumptions, simply because
some well-known professors advertised their theories well.
Today, more theoretical works are conjured based on this assumption and its
derivatives. I finally found that researchers loves this assumption because
the equilibrium can result in solutions that is easy to analyze, with which
they can play math. Is there any other way? Perhaps, but no one want to risk
on his/her career paths; they need to publish papers.
Well, many people told me that in applied science and engineering, you have to form some faith on what you are doing. Even though sometimes you strongly suspect what you are doing, you have to go on. Indeed, people can cite many shortcomings of the above assumption. But so what? They simply stick to it.
Faith does require some superstition, just like applied sciences do. However, I do believe that even in faith, one needs critical thinking and the spirit of suspicion. To equilize suspicion and sin reflects one's weakness in critical thinking. To understand the risk of lacking suspicion and critical thinking, one can review the mid-age history of Christianity to find evidences.
Do I suspect Bibile? Yes; am I an atheist? No. Are there many Christians suspecting Bibile? Yes, I believe so. But they simply claim that there are things that they cannot understand well in Bible. Actually, many of them are suspecting without admitting doing so. | s*y
发帖数: 933 | 3 Ah, but there is a huge difference here. In science and engineering, there's
no one or nothing claiming to be all-mighty/all known. Thus we have to
propose theories, perform experiments, gather evidence, ... you konw, the
scientific method. We can readily question a finding, admit to not knowing
enough, always allow the possibility for error or improvement with more
knowledge/evidence. But in religion (especially 基督教 and Bible), there's
someone claiming to be all-mighty. So, if you have a suspicion/doubt/
question, shouldn't that all-mighty one readily answer it if he wants you to
believe him and his ideas?
a
to
this
【在 G*****9 的大作中提到】
: I am not sure about biology. But many of us do rely on faith on some
: assumptions or theories, though there is no evidences on these theories.
: For example, in the Tranportation Planning of Transportation Engineering, a
: very critical assumption is that all participants in transportation tries to
: minimize his/her own travel time, regardless of whether his/her
: decision on other people's travel time. This results in a type of Nash
: equilibrium, which serves as the basics of modern transportation planning.
: I once asked a professor specialized in Tranportation Planning whether this
: assumption has been validated since we can obtain enough data to do such a
: job. He said no and there is not even an attempt to do so. As a result,
| l*****a
发帖数: 38403 | 4 Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence
－Carl Sagan
a
to
this
【在 G*****9 的大作中提到】
: I am not sure about biology. But many of us do rely on faith on some
: assumptions or theories, though there is no evidences on these theories.
: For example, in the Tranportation Planning of Transportation Engineering, a
: very critical assumption is that all participants in transportation tries to
: minimize his/her own travel time, regardless of whether his/her
: decision on other people's travel time. This results in a type of Nash
: equilibrium, which serves as the basics of modern transportation planning.
: I once asked a professor specialized in Tranportation Planning whether this
: assumption has been validated since we can obtain enough data to do such a
: job. He said no and there is not even an attempt to do so. As a result,
| G*****9
发帖数: 3225 | 5 God is all-mighty; yet he may not necessarily answer your personal questions
immediately and straghtforwardly. In human's eyes, God may not be that
lovely.
's
knowing
s
to
【在 s*y 的大作中提到】
: Ah, but there is a huge difference here. In science and engineering, there's
: no one or nothing claiming to be all-mighty/all known. Thus we have to
: propose theories, perform experiments, gather evidence, ... you konw, the
: scientific method. We can readily question a finding, admit to not knowing
: enough, always allow the possibility for error or improvement with more
: knowledge/evidence. But in religion (especially 基督教 and Bible), there's
: someone claiming to be all-mighty. So, if you have a suspicion/doubt/
: question, shouldn't that all-mighty one readily answer it if he wants you to
: believe him and his ideas?
:
| s*y
发帖数: 933 | 6
Does that sound like someone who wants you to believe him eagerly?
Doesn't that directly contradict what God is proclaiming?
【在 G*****9 的大作中提到】
: God is all-mighty; yet he may not necessarily answer your personal questions
: immediately and straghtforwardly. In human's eyes, God may not be that
: lovely.
:
: 's
: knowing
: s
: to
| G*****9
发帖数: 3225 | 7 Don't understand your first statement.
As for the second, No. Your parents may always claimed that they did
something because they love you. However, you may not know it at all at that
time. Personally, I don't believe that God is that lovely, though in the
Bibile, many apostles claimed so.
Additionally, love could be either big or small. For quite a few times, I
give coins to baggers. They received my love; but this love is not that
great.
Moreover, love could differ from person to person. I agree that God loves
human as a whole.
also preaching that believing him is the utmost important thing?
【在 s*y 的大作中提到】
:
: Does that sound like someone who wants you to believe him eagerly?
: Doesn't that directly contradict what God is proclaiming?
| s*y
发帖数: 933 | 8 My first statement was regarding your doubts/questions/suspicion in 基督教
vs. in science and engineering. Suppose you are learning a subject and your
teacher in that subject says it's the most important thing to learn.
Wouldn't that teacher do all his can to answer your question, alleviate your
doubt, etc. Now apply this in science, a regular teacher sometime may just
not have the answer. After all, people don't know everything. But apply
it to 基督教, as you said, God is all-mighty and all known, so why doesn't
he answer these questions and resolve these doubts if he wants you to
believe in this most important belief?
Regarding the second point, it's interesting that you believe God loves
humans as a whole but to you personally, he is not that lovely. Why would
God single you out?
that
【在 G*****9 的大作中提到】
: Don't understand your first statement.
: As for the second, No. Your parents may always claimed that they did
: something because they love you. However, you may not know it at all at that
: time. Personally, I don't believe that God is that lovely, though in the
: Bibile, many apostles claimed so.
: Additionally, love could be either big or small. For quite a few times, I
: give coins to baggers. They received my love; but this love is not that
: great.
: Moreover, love could differ from person to person. I agree that God loves
: human as a whole.
| G*****9
发帖数: 3225 | 9 Thank you for this explanation. According to the Bible, God may answer
people's questions in that day. But of course, people may have stronger
faith on God, if God immediately answer their questions. I believe that God
did reveal things to human, though not in the way human prefer most.
God may not necessarily single me out, but does not love me as much as I
want him to. This is why most Christians criticized me. I agree that I am
greedy sometimes. But who didn't? I believe that I am not as greedy as many
people that I know. Therefore, my passion to Him is not as large as when my
desires get satisfied. As for why he does not satisfy me now. It is as hard as your first question and I am sure that no human know.
Surely, there is a short-cut to go to improve your love to Him. It is easy;
convince yourself that God's love can be exchanged with fortunes in this
world. This way, I can't accept.
Let me explain what I am talking. I believe to most of us, it is impossible
to abandon all what we have and follow Jesus. From the economy's perspective
, the utility of God's blessings to us is less than the utility from the
fortune we gathered so far. OK. Then, in our mind, the exchange rate (the
value of world fortune that 1 unit of God's blessing is worth of in our mind
) is a finite number (if infinite, you can abandon all what you have right
now.) Since the Bible said that God loves us and will give us huge fortune
in heaven, you can feel great happiness if you count this fortune in the
world value system. In many cases, passions to God come out of this counting
implicitly.
The problem is, I believe, it is sinful to do this counting. To seek the
fortune in heaven may sound less sinful than to seek the fortune in this
world. But it is sinful, after all.
your
your
just
【在 s*y 的大作中提到】
: My first statement was regarding your doubts/questions/suspicion in 基督教
: vs. in science and engineering. Suppose you are learning a subject and your
: teacher in that subject says it's the most important thing to learn.
: Wouldn't that teacher do all his can to answer your question, alleviate your
: doubt, etc. Now apply this in science, a regular teacher sometime may just
: not have the answer. After all, people don't know everything. But apply
: it to 基督教, as you said, God is all-mighty and all known, so why doesn't
: he answer these questions and resolve these doubts if he wants you to
: believe in this most important belief?
: Regarding the second point, it's interesting that you believe God loves
| S**********L
发帖数: 151 | |
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