j*****7 发帖数: 10575 | 1
17
耶稣就对他们说,我父作事直到如今,我也作事。
18
所以犹太人越发想要杀他。因他不但犯了安息日,并且称神为他的父,将自己和神当作
平等。
19
耶稣对他们说,我实实在在地告诉你们,子凭着自己不能作什么,惟有看见父所作的,
子才能作。父所作的事,子也照样作。
20
父爱子,将自己所作的一切事指给他看。还要将比这更大的事指给他看,叫你们希奇。
21
父怎样叫死人起来,使他们活着,子也照样随自己的意思使人活着。
22
父不审判什么人,乃将审判的事全交与子。
23
叫人都尊敬子,如同尊敬父一样。不尊敬子的,就是不尊敬差子来的父。
24
我实实在在地告诉你们,那听我话,又信差我来者的,就有永生,不至于定罪,是已经
出死入生了。
25
我实实在在地告诉你们,时候将到,现在就是了,死人要听见神儿子的声音。听见的人
就要活了。
26
因为父怎样在自己有生命,就赐给他儿子也照样在自己有生命。
27
并且因为他是人子,就赐给他行审判的权柄。
28
你们不要把这事看作希奇。时候要到,凡在坟墓里的,都要听见他的声音,就出来。
29
行善的复活得生,作恶的复活定罪。
17-47是段很长的讲论,耶稣直接了当的在犹太人面前表明身份。我们把这一大段分为
两部分,第一部分讲耶稣的地位身份和父同等,第二部分讲三个见证,从父,从施洗约
翰,从圣经来的。
这里耶稣讲到自己跟父的关系
1)平等。一同做事
我父作事直到如今,我也作事
2)父将审判的事全交与子
3)再谈地位,“不尊敬子的,就是不尊敬差子来的父”
4)审判和生命,都在于圣子,因为这是圣父交给圣子的
这里我们看到两个重点,第一,圣子与圣父的平等性,第二,圣子与圣父在具体分工上
的不同职分和角色 |
t*******d 发帖数: 2570 | 2 什么时候一同做事就代表平等了?
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : 17 : 耶稣就对他们说,我父作事直到如今,我也作事。 : 18 : 所以犹太人越发想要杀他。因他不但犯了安息日,并且称神为他的父,将自己和神当作 : 平等。 : 19 : 耶稣对他们说,我实实在在地告诉你们,子凭着自己不能作什么,惟有看见父所作的, : 子才能作。父所作的事,子也照样作。 : 20
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l**********t 发帖数: 5754 | 3 "这里我们看到两个重点,第一,圣子与圣父的平等性,第二,圣子与圣父在具体分工上
的不同职分和角色"
thanks for sharing. nice summary.
【在 j*****7 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : 17 : 耶稣就对他们说,我父作事直到如今,我也作事。 : 18 : 所以犹太人越发想要杀他。因他不但犯了安息日,并且称神为他的父,将自己和神当作 : 平等。 : 19 : 耶稣对他们说,我实实在在地告诉你们,子凭着自己不能作什么,惟有看见父所作的, : 子才能作。父所作的事,子也照样作。 : 20
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l**********t 发帖数: 5754 | 4
in the context of Sabbath
"所以犹太人越发想要杀他。因他不但犯了安息日,并且称神为他的父,将自己和神当作
平等"
"And certainly Christ intended that it should be understood that God was his
Father in a peculiar sense, so as to distinguish himself from the ordinary
rank of other men. He made himself equal to God, when he claimed for himself
continuance in working; and Christ is so far from denying this, that he
confirms it more distinctly. This refutes the madness of the Arians, who
acknowledged that Christ is God, but did not think that he is equal to the
Father, as if in the one and simple essence of God there could be any
inequality.
" - John Calvin.
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 什么时候一同做事就代表平等了?
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t*******d 发帖数: 2570 | 5 John Calvin说一同做事算平等就算平等?
当作
his
ordinary
himself
【在 l**********t 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : in the context of Sabbath : "所以犹太人越发想要杀他。因他不但犯了安息日,并且称神为他的父,将自己和神当作 : 平等" : "And certainly Christ intended that it should be understood that God was his : Father in a peculiar sense, so as to distinguish himself from the ordinary : rank of other men. He made himself equal to God, when he claimed for himself : continuance in working; and Christ is so far from denying this, that he : confirms it more distinctly. This refutes the madness of the Arians, who : acknowledged that Christ is God, but did not think that he is equal to the
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l**********t 发帖数: 5754 | 6
I hope you understand what Sabbath means (in the Bible, to the Jews), and in
that context, what "work" & "Son of God" means. That's why the Jews felt
that Jesus claims to be equalto God as stated in the verse.
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : John Calvin说一同做事算平等就算平等? : : 当作 : his : ordinary : himself
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t*******d 发帖数: 2570 | 7 展开说说?
in
【在 l**********t 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : I hope you understand what Sabbath means (in the Bible, to the Jews), and in : that context, what "work" & "Son of God" means. That's why the Jews felt : that Jesus claims to be equalto God as stated in the verse.
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l*****a 发帖数: 38403 | 8 我可以直接告诉你,犹太人说的son of god意思是人类,犹太人认为所有人都是神的儿子
in
【在 l**********t 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : I hope you understand what Sabbath means (in the Bible, to the Jews), and in : that context, what "work" & "Son of God" means. That's why the Jews felt : that Jesus claims to be equalto God as stated in the verse.
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l**********t 发帖数: 5754 | 9
儿子
I didn't realize you are Jewish.
【在 l*****a 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 我可以直接告诉你,犹太人说的son of god意思是人类,犹太人认为所有人都是神的儿子 : : in
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l**********t 发帖数: 5754 | 10
you can read the Matthew Henry commentary on
http://www.ccel.org/study/
select John chap 5.
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 展开说说? : : in
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t*******d 发帖数: 2570 | 11 看了,这个解释的办法是添加自己的想法。
【在 l**********t 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : you can read the Matthew Henry commentary on : http://www.ccel.org/study/ : select John chap 5.
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j*******7 发帖数: 6300 | 12 good good study, day day up.
http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=10&arti
What does it mean to say that Jesus is the “Son of God”?
by Brad Bromling, D.Min.
This uniqueness reached its zenith when Jesus addressed God as “Abba,
Father” in prayer (Mark 14:36). “Abba” was the word a Jewish child used
to refer to his or her “original person of reference” (i.e., mother or
father). This bespoke an “unheard-of closeness” between Jesus and God (
Moltmann, 1993, p. 142). Jesus demonstrated this closeness throughout His
life. And it was in this intimacy that Jesus’ sonship is best defined.
In summary, to identify Jesus as the Son of God is to acknowledge His
genealogical connection to Israel, His right to the throne of David, and His
unparalleled nearness to God. To confess that Jesus is the Son of God is to
declare as true Jesus’ claim: “He who has seen me has seen the Father” (
John 14:9). |
t*******d 发帖数: 2570 | 13 只说明耶稣跟神很接近,但不说明平等。
耶稣跟神比任何其它人都接近,这没什么好奇怪的。
【在 j*******7 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : good good study, day day up. : http://www.apologeticspress.org/apcontent.aspx?category=10&arti : What does it mean to say that Jesus is the “Son of God”? : by Brad Bromling, D.Min. : This uniqueness reached its zenith when Jesus addressed God as “Abba, : Father” in prayer (Mark 14:36). “Abba” was the word a Jewish child used : to refer to his or her “original person of reference” (i.e., mother or : father). This bespoke an “unheard-of closeness” between Jesus and God ( : Moltmann, 1993, p. 142). Jesus demonstrated this closeness throughout His : life. And it was in this intimacy that Jesus’ sonship is best defined.
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j*******7 发帖数: 6300 | 14 必须承认不能仅凭极少数经文来建立耶稣的神性(以及其他信条),还是要看更多的经
文。但似乎这也展示了一个反馈增强的效应:由全本圣经导出的信条也会影响你对单一
经文的理会。这和人类的视觉原理也是一样的。
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 只说明耶稣跟神很接近,但不说明平等。 : 耶稣跟神比任何其它人都接近,这没什么好奇怪的。
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l*****a 发帖数: 38403 | 15 你的意思是说,我研究圣经就是基督徒咯?你的逻辑总是异常的怪异
【在 l**********t 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : : you can read the Matthew Henry commentary on : http://www.ccel.org/study/ : select John chap 5.
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j*****7 发帖数: 10575 | 16 18节
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 什么时候一同做事就代表平等了?
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I***b 发帖数: 209 | 17 所以要看一同做什么事。
【在 t*******d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 什么时候一同做事就代表平等了?
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w*******e 发帖数: 6802 | 18 三位一体的奥秘,我自己还需要花些时间去研究。
JYM弟兄,能不能推荐一些好的神学文章来读读? |