j*******7
发帖数: 6300 | 1 http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
Question: "Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?"
Answer: Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and
create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these
things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create
evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word
translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction
, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible
translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV,
NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and
often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the
diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create
evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.
(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “
bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7
is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience.
God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings
judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who
quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God
brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “
moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that
God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against
Him. | b********h
发帖数: 2451 | 2 谢谢，反基的攻击手段就是断章取义。只要认真读圣经，所有攻击都不攻自破
and
affliction
,
and
【在 j*******7 的大作中提到】
: http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
: Question: "Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?"
: Answer: Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and
: create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these
: things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create
: evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word
: translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction
: , calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible
: translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV,
: NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and
| J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 3 恩。
这里的反基，有点反的离谱。个个都好像跟基督教有血海深仇一样。
悲惨世界中那个神父对那个偷东西的犯人很好啊。哪个宗教不是叫人向善，宗教在这些
人嘴里完全变了味道。
【在 b********h 的大作中提到】
: 谢谢，反基的攻击手段就是断章取义。只要认真读圣经，所有攻击都不攻自破
:
: and
: affliction
: ,
: and
| j*******7
发帖数: 6300 | 4 有的反基确实离谱，往往没缘由的就骂上了,让人摸不着头脑。
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 恩。
: 这里的反基，有点反的离谱。个个都好像跟基督教有血海深仇一样。
: 悲惨世界中那个神父对那个偷东西的犯人很好啊。哪个宗教不是叫人向善，宗教在这些
: 人嘴里完全变了味道。
| j*******7
发帖数: 6300 | 5 http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
Question: "Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?"
Answer: Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and
create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these
things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create
evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word
translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction
, calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible
translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV,
NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and
often does have this meaning in the Hebrew Scriptures. However, due to the
diversity of possible definitions, it is unwise to assume that “I create
evil” in Isaiah 45:7 refers to God bringing moral evil into existence.
(2) The context of Isaiah 45:7 makes it clear that something other than “
bringing moral evil into existence” is in mind. The context of Isaiah 45:7
is God rewarding Israel for obedience and punishing Israel for disobedience.
God pours out salvation and blessings on those whom He favors. God brings
judgment on those who continue to rebel against Him. “Woe to him who
quarrels with his Master” (Isaiah 45:9). That is the person to whom God
brings “evil” and “disaster.” So, rather than saying that God created “
moral evil,” Isaiah 45:7 is presenting a common theme of Scripture – that
God brings disaster on those who continue in hard-hearted rebellion against
Him. | b********h
发帖数: 2451 | 6 谢谢，反基的攻击手段就是断章取义。只要认真读圣经，所有攻击都不攻自破
and
affliction
,
and
【在 j*******7 的大作中提到】
: http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
: Question: "Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?"
: Answer: Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and
: create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these
: things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create
: evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word
: translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction
: , calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible
: translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV,
: NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and
| J*******g
发帖数: 8775 | 7 恩。
这里的反基，有点反的离谱。个个都好像跟基督教有血海深仇一样。
悲惨世界中那个神父对那个偷东西的犯人很好啊。哪个宗教不是叫人向善，宗教在这些
人嘴里完全变了味道。
【在 b********h 的大作中提到】
: 谢谢，反基的攻击手段就是断章取义。只要认真读圣经，所有攻击都不攻自破
:
: and
: affliction
: ,
: and
| j*******7
发帖数: 6300 | 8 有的反基确实离谱，往往没缘由的就骂上了,让人摸不着头脑。
【在 J*******g 的大作中提到】
: 恩。
: 这里的反基，有点反的离谱。个个都好像跟基督教有血海深仇一样。
: 悲惨世界中那个神父对那个偷东西的犯人很好啊。哪个宗教不是叫人向善，宗教在这些
: 人嘴里完全变了味道。
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | | z********o
发帖数: 18304 | 10 当基们把“圣经”的荒谬归结于“翻译错误”的时候，我们只需要反问一句：
你家“全知全能”的主子能不能保证“圣经”的纪录/传播/翻译不出错误？ | | | z********o
发帖数: 18304 | 11 基督徒们解释“圣经”的时候，有一个终极绝招。我总结为：“黑”在这里是“白”的
意思。。。。 | b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | 12
=======================================================
往往就是这招便使你无言, 闭口
有种的可以找来理据反驳的,
可是.....................
你只能又炒冷饭
【在 z********o 的大作中提到】
: 基督徒们解释“圣经”的时候，有一个终极绝招。我总结为：“黑”在这里是“白”的
: 意思。。。。
| o***1
发帖数: 592 | 13 The problem of evil has vexed Christian theologians for nearly two millennia
, burdening them with the impossible task of explaining how so much evil and
suffering could exist in a cosmos overseen by an omnipotent, omniscient,
and perfectly good deity。
The translators of many modern Bible editions, aware of the unsettling
implications this verse holds for their faith, have attempted to soften the
blow by translating it in a more palatable way. The New International
Version, for example, has this passage say that God creates “disaster”,
while the English Standard Version has it as “calamity”, and the Revised
Standard Version says “woe”. The Message translation creatively renders
this verse as “I make harmonies and create discords”.
Although these alternate translations wouldn’t seem to solve much, they are
still not as faithful to the original Hebrew than the KJV’s unflinching
translation. The Hebrew word translated by the KJV writers as “evil” in
Isaiah 45:7 is “ra“, and from textual evidence, it is clear that in the
Bible this word does mean evil in a moral sense. Here are some of the other
contexts in which it is used:
■ In Genesis 2:17, God instructs Adam and Eve not to eat from “the tree
of good and ra“. The tree of good and disaster? The tree of good and
calamity? Clearly not: it is the tree of good and evil.
■ In Genesis 6:5, God resolves to destroy humankind in the great flood
because “the wickedness (ra) of man was great in the earth”.
■ In Genesis 13:13, the men of Sodom were “wicked (ra) and sinners before
the Lord exceedingly”.
■ In Deuteronomy 1:35, a furious God threatens the Israelites, “Surely
there shall not one of these men of this evil (ra) generation see that good
land, which I sware to give unto your fathers.”
■ In Judges 2:11, “the children of Israel did evil (ra) in the sight of
the Lord, and served Baalim”.
■ In 1 Kings 16:30, the wicked king Ahab (husband of the infamous Jezebel)
“did evil (ra) in the sight of the Lord above all that were before him”.
These and many other references make it clear that the primary meaning of ra
is indeed evil in the sense of wickedness or sin. For believers who hold to
the textual inerrancy of the Bible, therefore, there is no choice but to
admit that God created evil. And in a way, this makes a great deal of sense.
If an all-powerful, all-knowing god created everything, what other
explanation for evil could there be, other than that he caused it?
Read more: http://www.comereason.org/phil_qstn/phi025.asp#ixzz2rGS0mzM7【 在 jmsma2007 (James) 的大作中提到: 】
and
affliction
,
and | o***1
发帖数: 592 | 14 Even the Bible’s theology bears this out. The text offers numerous
occasions where God could have intervened to turn events to good and chose
not to. He could, for example, have obliterated Satan and the rebel angels
entirely, or at the very least confined them to Hell and not allowed them to
escape, so that they could never have escaped to lead humanity into
temptation. And God’s behavior in the whole Eden affair, in any case,
smacks strongly of either extreme incompetence or deliberate malice – not
least, his choice to transmit the curse of original sin to all subsequent
generations rather than letting every human start off with a morally clean
slate.
Less-literalist believers might say that the imputation of evil to God is
just textual corruption in the Bible, the product of fallible humans and not
a divine revelation. And while this explanation might help the cause of
theodicy, it can only do so at the cost of hugely undermining the Bible
itself. After all, if God would allow as basic and fundamental a distortion
of his nature as this, for what reason should we believe that the Bible
reflects any of his words? If the biography of some great human being
contained a distortion as blatantly slanderous as this, by attributing to
that person an attitude that is totally contrary to all they believed and
stood for, would it be wise or prudent to simply disregard that passage and
then continue to trust the rest of the book as accurate?
The attribution of evil to God’s handiwork, while it may solve the problem
of theodicy, raises an even more difficult question for Jews and Christians
in its place. Namely, why would such a deity be worthy of our belief? Why
would any believer want to worship a god who accepts responsibility for evil
and suffering? Because he’s the most powerful and will punish people who
don’t do what he says? But what assurance would we have that the afterlife
is not also a place of torment and sorrow, even for the good?
This is a nightmare of a dilemma for anyone to have to face. Fortunately,
there is another way out: the door that opens onto atheism. It is in our
power to cast aside these bleak and malevolent fantasies, and to recognize
that the specters that menace us are illusions of our own imagination. They
have no more reality or substance than shadows, and are just as easily
dispelled by the light.
For those who wish to cease the futile obsession with the words of ancient
texts and face reality as it truly is, the gate is open and the path is
clear. There are no gods, no devils or angels, no heaven or hell. There is
only us, human beings, living together in the natural world. Once we
recognize this, the next step – a lifelong step – is to forsake fantasy,
treat others with kindness and make the most of the one life we are
fortunate to have.
and
affliction
,
and
【在 j*******7 的大作中提到】
: http://www.gotquestions.org/Isaiah-45-7.html
: Question: "Why does Isaiah 45:7 say that God created evil?"
: Answer: Isaiah 45:7 in the King James Version reads, “I form the light, and
: create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these
: things.” How does Isaiah 45:7 agree with the view that God did not create
: evil? There are two key facts that need to be considered. (1) The word
: translated “evil” is from a Hebrew word that means “adversity, affliction
: , calamity, distress, misery.” Notice how the other major English Bible
: translations render the word: “disaster” (NIV, HCSB), “calamity” (NKJV,
: NAS, ESV), and “woe” (NRSV). The Hebrew word can refer to moral evil, and
| b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | | j*******7
发帖数: 6300 | 16 你这大段E文无非就是说“上帝怎么不听我opal1的指挥？”
to
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: Even the Bible’s theology bears this out. The text offers numerous
: occasions where God could have intervened to turn events to good and chose
: not to. He could, for example, have obliterated Satan and the rebel angels
: entirely, or at the very least confined them to Hell and not allowed them to
: escape, so that they could never have escaped to lead humanity into
: temptation. And God’s behavior in the whole Eden affair, in any case,
: smacks strongly of either extreme incompetence or deliberate malice – not
: least, his choice to transmit the curse of original sin to all subsequent
: generations rather than letting every human start off with a morally clean
: slate.
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 17 哈哈，怎么说的都有啊。信不信由你，不勉强。
统观圣经，有无数经文说上帝是良善的，见下文。
仅仅通过一句话来否认神的良善，用自己的脑子好好想想。
古以色列人崇拜的是良善的神呢？还是崇拜邪恶的神呢？
1. 旧约 - 尼希米记: 第 9 章
20 你也赐下你良善的灵教训他们，未尝不赐吗哪使他们糊口，并赐水解他们的渴。
2. 旧约 - 诗篇: 第 25 章
8 耶和华是良善正直的。所以他必指示罪人走正路。
3. 旧约 - 诗篇: 第 38 章
20 以恶报善的与我作对，因我是追求良善。
4. 旧约 - 诗篇: 第 86 章
5 主阿，你本为良善，乐意饶恕人，有丰盛的慈爱，赐给凡求告你的人。
10. 新约 - 马太福音: 第 19 章
17 耶稣对他说，你为什么以善事问我呢？只有一位是善的，（有古卷作你为什么称我
是良善的，除了神以外，没有一个良善的）你若要进入永生，就当遵守诫命。
14. 新约 - 马可福音: 第 10 章
18 耶稣对他说，你为什么称我是良善的。除了神一位之外，再没有良善的。
16. 新约 - 路加福音: 第 18 章
19 耶稣对他说，你为什么称我是良善的，除了神一位之外，再没有良善的。
millennia
and
【在 o***1 的大作中提到】
: The problem of evil has vexed Christian theologians for nearly two millennia
: , burdening them with the impossible task of explaining how so much evil and
: suffering could exist in a cosmos overseen by an omnipotent, omniscient,
: and perfectly good deity。
: The translators of many modern Bible editions, aware of the unsettling
: implications this verse holds for their faith, have attempted to soften the
: blow by translating it in a more palatable way. The New International
: Version, for example, has this passage say that God creates “disaster”,
: while the English Standard Version has it as “calamity”, and the Revised
: Standard Version says “woe”. The Message translation creatively renders
| n********n
发帖数: 8336 | 18 这是需要判断能力的，不要一叶障目，不见泰山
4. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 11 章
44 我是耶和华你们的神，所以你们要成为圣洁，因为我是圣洁的。你们也不可在地上
的爬物污秽自己。
5. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 11 章
45 我是把你们从埃及地领出来的耶和华，要作你们的神，所以你们要圣洁，因为我是
圣洁的。
6. 旧约 - 利未记: 第 19 章
2 你晓谕以色列全会众说，你们要圣洁，因为我耶和华你们的神是圣洁的。
18. 旧约 - 约书亚记: 第 24 章
19 约书亚对百姓说，你们不能事奉耶和华。因为他是圣洁的神，是忌邪的神，必不赦
免你们的过犯罪恶。
19. 旧约 - 撒母耳记上: 第 6 章
20 伯示麦人说，谁能在耶和华这圣洁的神面前侍立呢？这约柜可以从我们这里送到谁
那里去呢？ | z********o
发帖数: 18304 | 19
哈哈哈！面对基们的终极绝招，我当然只有闭口不言。当基们用上终极绝招的时候，就
可以有旁观的同学们判断谁是谁非了。
基督徒们解释“圣经”的终极绝招我总结为：“黑”在这里是“白”的意思。。。。
【在 b*****n 的大作中提到】
: 有人无言
: 有口难言?
: 只能搬字过网
| b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | 20
当基们用上终极绝招的时候，就
==============================================
这是否叫作诉诸同情, 乞求怜悯?
【在 z********o 的大作中提到】
:
: 哈哈哈！面对基们的终极绝招，我当然只有闭口不言。当基们用上终极绝招的时候，就
: 可以有旁观的同学们判断谁是谁非了。
: 基督徒们解释“圣经”的终极绝招我总结为：“黑”在这里是“白”的意思。。。。
| | | z********o
发帖数: 18304 | 21
你不用表演了。基们脸皮的厚度和嘴巴的硬度，我一贯十分佩服的。
【在 b*****n 的大作中提到】
:
: 当基们用上终极绝招的时候，就
: ==============================================
: 这是否叫作诉诸同情, 乞求怜悯?
| b*****n
发帖数: 4976 | 22
==================================================
当你江郎才尽时,
不得不佩服人
【在 z********o 的大作中提到】
:
: 你不用表演了。基们脸皮的厚度和嘴巴的硬度，我一贯十分佩服的。
| o***1
发帖数: 592 | 23 理屈词穷啦？ 一句翻译错误， 解释不了这个问题。
上帝比你大气的多。 敢作敢当， 造了恶， 有什么不好承认的。 这才是全能。 哪像
你们这帮奴才， 拼命地添。
【在 j*******7 的大作中提到】
: 你这大段E文无非就是说“上帝怎么不听我opal1的指挥？”
:
: to
|
|
