p*******m
发帖数: 24 | 1 In sum, of the 14 RCTs that have tested the effectiveness of masks in
preventing the transmission of respiratory viruses,
three suggest, but do not provide any statistically significant evidence in
intention-to-treat analysis, that masks might be useful.
The other eleven suggest that masks are either useless—whether compared
with no masks or because they appear not to add to good hand hygiene alone—
or actually counterproductive.
Of the three studies that provided statistically significant evidence in
intention-to-treat analysis that was not contradicted within the same study,
one found that the combination of surgical masks and hand hygiene was less
effective than hand hygiene alone, one found that the combination of
surgical masks and hand hygiene was less effective than nothing, and one
found that cloth masks were less effective than surgical masks.
https://www.city-journal.org/do-masks-work-a-review-of-the-evidence |
D********r
发帖数: 135 | 2 你要能够找出一个实验结果说口罩对于防止飞沫喷溅无效的，才算有用。CDC建议打了
疫苗的人戴口罩，原因就是这些人也会传播病毒，而口罩可以大大降低传播。
目前的社会舆论和科学建议都是在强调，戴口罩可以大大降低那些病毒携带者对外传播
病毒的可能性，讨论防止病毒对自己的侵染根本就不是戴口罩的目的。故意混淆这两者
差别的，非蠢即坏，或者又蠢又坏。
in
study,
less
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: In sum, of the 14 RCTs that have tested the effectiveness of masks in
: preventing the transmission of respiratory viruses,
: three suggest, but do not provide any statistically significant evidence in
: intention-to-treat analysis, that masks might be useful.
: The other eleven suggest that masks are either useless—whether compared
: with no masks or because they appear not to add to good hand hygiene alone—
: or actually counterproductive.
: Of the three studies that provided statistically significant evidence in
: intention-to-treat analysis that was not contradicted within the same study,
: one found that the combination of surgical masks and hand hygiene was less
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 3 Do speed limits work? Probably no, since many people still die when they
are driving within the speed limits.
Do seatbelts work? Probably no for similar reason.
Do laws work? Probably no since many still break them.
LZ, what does "work" mean? Must it be 100% effective? |
r******i
发帖数: 1445 | 4 Masks work to some degree. Just not 100%. |
p*******m
发帖数: 24 | 5 就几个回帖来看，貌似左派不太相信科学。
in
study,
less
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: In sum, of the 14 RCTs that have tested the effectiveness of masks in
: preventing the transmission of respiratory viruses,
: three suggest, but do not provide any statistically significant evidence in
: intention-to-treat analysis, that masks might be useful.
: The other eleven suggest that masks are either useless—whether compared
: with no masks or because they appear not to add to good hand hygiene alone—
: or actually counterproductive.
: Of the three studies that provided statistically significant evidence in
: intention-to-treat analysis that was not contradicted within the same study,
: one found that the combination of surgical masks and hand hygiene was less
|
d********f
发帖数: 43471 | 6 笑尿了，一个有效得实验还没做出来，你就开始要大家提供无效得？你见过上庭得时候
被告能要求控方提供自己没有犯罪得证据么
【在 D********r 的大作中提到】
: 你要能够找出一个实验结果说口罩对于防止飞沫喷溅无效的，才算有用。CDC建议打了
: 疫苗的人戴口罩，原因就是这些人也会传播病毒，而口罩可以大大降低传播。
: 目前的社会舆论和科学建议都是在强调，戴口罩可以大大降低那些病毒携带者对外传播
: 病毒的可能性，讨论防止病毒对自己的侵染根本就不是戴口罩的目的。故意混淆这两者
: 差别的，非蠢即坏，或者又蠢又坏。
:
: in
: study,
: less
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 7 Just not the same science you define.
It's not rocket science. It's just common sense. Look at this video, you
will know the answer. Even a facial tissue is better than nothing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: 就几个回帖来看，貌似左派不太相信科学。
:
: in
: study,
: less
|
p*******m
发帖数: 24 | 8 now i start to wonder, did you actually read the article. e.g. there are
more factors other than a piece of cloth on your face, something like hand
hygiene also play important role.
mask effectiveness is not something new, one would assume the past knowledge
won't change drastically in covid era, plus various studies do show the
evidence or non-evidence, presented in the article, for best medical
research on masks’ effectiveness in preventing the spread of viruses.
finally you have to understand for a lot of uninformed, their common sense
are actually wrong. like fellow Chinese would go to hospital right away,
once they catch cold and doctors prescribing them antibiotics. For some of
you, it may sound like common sense, but for the rest, you look like just
nuts.
【在 F********r 的大作中提到】
: Just not the same science you define.
: It's not rocket science. It's just common sense. Look at this video, you
: will know the answer. Even a facial tissue is better than nothing.
: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DNeYfUTA11s
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 9 Do you have to create a conflict between mask and hygiene? Are they
exclusive? Why do you have to give up one when adopting the other? Why not
both?
I admit that I only glanced through the article. Seems like someone still
stuck with cdc's recommendation dated way back last February.
knowledge
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: now i start to wonder, did you actually read the article. e.g. there are
: more factors other than a piece of cloth on your face, something like hand
: hygiene also play important role.
: mask effectiveness is not something new, one would assume the past knowledge
: won't change drastically in covid era, plus various studies do show the
: evidence or non-evidence, presented in the article, for best medical
: research on masks’ effectiveness in preventing the spread of viruses.
: finally you have to understand for a lot of uninformed, their common sense
: are actually wrong. like fellow Chinese would go to hospital right away,
: once they catch cold and doctors prescribing them antibiotics. For some of
|
p*******m
发帖数: 24 | 10 that is the problem, when mask is on your face, you just touch it frequently
, with your dirty hand, picking up virus everywhere. I don't blame you for
this, even fauci did same thing, caught on video tape.
not
【在 F********r 的大作中提到】
: Do you have to create a conflict between mask and hygiene? Are they
: exclusive? Why do you have to give up one when adopting the other? Why not
: both?
: I admit that I only glanced through the article. Seems like someone still
: stuck with cdc's recommendation dated way back last February.
:
: knowledge
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 11 Those people touch their faces with their dirty hands anyway, with or
without masks. With masks, at least some of the possible viruses will stay
on the masks, instead of all on faces or noses.
With seatbelts, do drivers tend to drive faster or more careless?
frequently
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: that is the problem, when mask is on your face, you just touch it frequently
: , with your dirty hand, picking up virus everywhere. I don't blame you for
: this, even fauci did same thing, caught on video tape.
:
: not
|
p*******m
发帖数: 24 | 12
where is your evidence or study to back this up?
With masks, at least some of the possible viruses will stay
【在 F********r 的大作中提到】
: Those people touch their faces with their dirty hands anyway, with or
: without masks. With masks, at least some of the possible viruses will stay
: on the masks, instead of all on faces or noses.
: With seatbelts, do drivers tend to drive faster or more careless?
:
: frequently
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 13 and if you really believe that, then educate people to not touch their masks
. At least masks themselves help reduce the spread of the virus, I don't
believe they are 100% effective, but even 10% will help.
frequently
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: that is the problem, when mask is on your face, you just touch it frequently
: , with your dirty hand, picking up virus everywhere. I don't blame you for
: this, even fauci did same thing, caught on video tape.
:
: not
|
p*******m
发帖数: 24 | 14 first please show me the evidence or study that people touch their faces as
frequent as when they are on or off their mask.
masks
【在 F********r 的大作中提到】
: and if you really believe that, then educate people to not touch their masks
: . At least masks themselves help reduce the spread of the virus, I don't
: believe they are 100% effective, but even 10% will help.
:
: frequently
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 15 Just reasoning.
When you wear your mask and go out for a few hours, do you believe your mask
is clean? Let's say you can find some number, any number, of viruses on
your mask. Guess where most of them would be if you were not wearing the
mask? Most will be breathed in by you, and some will stick on your face.
So you mask has helped you by keeping some, even one, viruses to itself.
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: first please show me the evidence or study that people touch their faces as
: frequent as when they are on or off their mask.
:
: masks
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 16 Why don't you show evidence that people touch their faces more frequently
with masks on? Why don't you show evidence that people drive faster or more
recklessly with seatbelts on? When people wash their hands more often, do
they then touch their faces more often because, you know, they get a "false
sense" of cleanliness? So are you against washing hand often?
as
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: first please show me the evidence or study that people touch their faces as
: frequent as when they are on or off their mask.
:
: masks
|
p*******m
发帖数: 24 | 17 just wondering.
maybe you could actually read article a bit instead of speculating? There
are actual studies being done.
mask
【在 F********r 的大作中提到】
: Just reasoning.
: When you wear your mask and go out for a few hours, do you believe your mask
: is clean? Let's say you can find some number, any number, of viruses on
: your mask. Guess where most of them would be if you were not wearing the
: mask? Most will be breathed in by you, and some will stick on your face.
: So you mask has helped you by keeping some, even one, viruses to itself.
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 18 Tell me what's wrong with my reasoning?
There are many articles, on both sides. You are telling me to read less? I
meant, you are telling me to read only the ones on your side and not the
other side?
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: just wondering.
: maybe you could actually read article a bit instead of speculating? There
: are actual studies being done.
:
: mask
|
i********r
发帖数: 110 | 19 右派们相信消毒水最能治新冠！
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: 就几个回帖来看，貌似左派不太相信科学。
:
: in
: study,
: less
|
r*******r
发帖数: 2565 | 20 所以到现在川粉还是在讨论口罩戴不戴，疫苗打不打，病毒到底是不是big flu
与此同时，黄皮创粉出门都戴着口罩，一家人早就打好了疫苗，但坚持在第一线忽悠同
胞很积极
楼主你就老老实实告诉大家，你和你老婆出门戴不戴口罩吧，还有楼上那个猫 |
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 21 I can answer your questions for LZ. Trumpers will tell you that they are
proud freedump fighters.
【在 r*******r 的大作中提到】
: 所以到现在川粉还是在讨论口罩戴不戴，疫苗打不打，病毒到底是不是big flu
: 与此同时，黄皮创粉出门都戴着口罩，一家人早就打好了疫苗，但坚持在第一线忽悠同
: 胞很积极
: 楼主你就老老实实告诉大家，你和你老婆出门戴不戴口罩吧，还有楼上那个猫
|
p*******m
发帖数: 24 | 22 你看,文章里面列了14个研究，哪怕你说出一个某研究的数据错误，或者逻辑错误，不
都比你对我个人的诛心强吗？
和左派讨论问题，大多数情况，会堕入一种莫名怪圈。
一开始的时候，他们自恃占着知识，科学的话语权，告诉你什么是对的，什么是错的。
可是一旦你认认真真的跟他们讨论，开始拿出科学和证据，挑战他们的结论的时候，他
们却又开始了原教指般的贴标签式攻击，甚至开始诛心。最后的讨论往往就降级成了一
种二维站队。
比如疫苗，打，不打。口罩，戴，不戴...
【在 r*******r 的大作中提到】
: 所以到现在川粉还是在讨论口罩戴不戴，疫苗打不打，病毒到底是不是big flu
: 与此同时，黄皮创粉出门都戴着口罩，一家人早就打好了疫苗，但坚持在第一线忽悠同
: 胞很积极
: 楼主你就老老实实告诉大家，你和你老婆出门戴不戴口罩吧，还有楼上那个猫
|
c*******e
发帖数: 5818 | 23 mask 还是有用，但必须会带，带的人要忍者委屈，要么其实效果是反的，因为增加乱
摸到的机会，
西方人 基本都戴不住口罩，起码 60,70%都瞎戴， |
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 24 Then educate people on how to wear mask properly. How difficult can that be
?
【在 c*******e 的大作中提到】
: mask 还是有用，但必须会带，带的人要忍者委屈，要么其实效果是反的，因为增加乱
: 摸到的机会，
: 西方人 基本都戴不住口罩，起码 60,70%都瞎戴，
|
z***n
发帖数: 1 | 25 mask work 不 work 看看中国例子就可以了， |
c*******e
发帖数: 5818 | 26 幼稚，多年的习惯能 一叫就会，谁去教，
另外，那么多得了没事的，尤其年轻人间的相互影响，你怎么说服，人家是现身说法的！
你能不能教会 别一个人阳性，几十里外的全城都给封了 ？你能教会吗 ？
【在 c*******e 的大作中提到】
: mask 还是有用，但必须会带，带的人要忍者委屈，要么其实效果是反的，因为增加乱
: 摸到的机会，
: 西方人 基本都戴不住口罩，起码 60,70%都瞎戴，
|
F********r
发帖数: 878 | 27 Of course I don't expect you to teach others. Health department can run ads
. Teachers at schools can do it too.
的！
【在 c*******e 的大作中提到】
: 幼稚，多年的习惯能 一叫就会，谁去教，
: 另外，那么多得了没事的，尤其年轻人间的相互影响，你怎么说服，人家是现身说法的！
: 你能不能教会 别一个人阳性，几十里外的全城都给封了 ？你能教会吗 ？
|
d***b
发帖数: 376 | 28 我就奇怪了，什么样的人脑子会被洗成这样的？不建议你从事科研工作，做杠精更有前途
knowledge
you
【在 p*******m 的大作中提到】
: now i start to wonder, did you actually read the article. e.g. there are
: more factors other than a piece of cloth on your face, something like hand
: hygiene also play important role.
: mask effectiveness is not something new, one would assume the past knowledge
: won't change drastically in covid era, plus various studies do show the
: evidence or non-evidence, presented in the article, for best medical
: research on masks’ effectiveness in preventing the spread of viruses.
: finally you have to understand for a lot of uninformed, their common sense
: are actually wrong. like fellow Chinese would go to hospital right away,
: once they catch cold and doctors prescribing them antibiotics. For some of
|
