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Charityfraud (Watchdog) 于 (Thu Apr 4 11:07:42 2013, 美东) 提到:
在美国即使一个人不理道德上的约束，凡事还是有法律约束的。 虽然我不是
charitable solicitations法律的专家， 但初读加州charitable solicitations法律
条款， 我相信康妈此次向公众大规模公募(solicitation for charitable purpose)可
能已经初犯了加州法律和其他类似联邦慈善法(because her solicitation was via
the Internet, which crossed the state line)。以下引用加州charitable
solicitations Code Sections 17510。这应该govern次类公众募捐的法律。请注意这
些条款也适用于solicitation for charitable purpose by individuals不仅仅是by
an organization。
网上公众舆论一直要求信息透明，要求康妈公开她受到款项的用途走向等等，这个要求
被某些人批成没事找事，康妈没这个义务。实际上她不仅有这个义务，而且法律要求她
必须这么做- Knowing and willful noncompliance shall subject the solicitor to
the penalties of the law。
以下条款重要一条就是有一些信息是法律要求募捐人必须公布的。
我相信如果California Attorney General's Office或 prosecutor知道了这个募捐并
涉入调查，他们很可能回发现参与这次的某些个人与组织至少在某些方面已经触犯了法
律。抛开道德和人之常情不谈，在美国并不是想干什么就干什么的，做任何事总归是要
守法的。大规模网上向公众乞讨和站街乞讨虽然性质没有区别，法律上还是有很大区别
的。
California Law On Charitable Solicitations - http://oag.ca.gov/charities/laws
17510.2. (a) As used in this article, "solicitation for charitable
purposes," means any request, plea, entreaty, demand, or invitation,
or attempt thereof, to give money or property, in connection with
which any of the following applies:
(1) Any appeal is made for charitable purposes.
(2) The name of any charity, philanthropic or charitable
organization is used or referred to in any such appeal as an
inducement for making any such gift.
(3) Any statement is made to the effect that the gift or any part
thereof will go to or be used for any charitable purpose or
organization.
(4) The name of any organization of law enforcement personnel,
firefighters, or other persons who protect the public safety is used
or referred to as an inducement for transferring any money or
property, unless the only expressed or implied purpose of the
solicitation is for the sole benefit of the actual active membership
of the organization.
(c) A solicitation for charitable purposes, or a sale, offer or
attempt to sell for charitable purposes, shall include the making or
disseminating or causing to be made or disseminated before the public
in this state, in any newspaper or other publication, or any
advertising device, or by public outcry or proclamation, or in any
other manner or means whatsoever any such solicitation.
(d) For purposes of this article, "charity" shall include any
person who, or any nonprofit community organization, fraternal,
benevolent, educational, philanthropic, or service organization, or
governmental employee organization which, solicits or obtains
contributions solicited from the public for charitable purposes or
holds any assets for charitable purposes.
17510.3. (a) Prior to any solicitation or sales solicitation for
charitable purposes, the solicitor or seller shall exhibit to the
prospective donor or purchaser a card entitled "Solicitation or Sale
for Charitable Purposes Card." The card shall be signed and dated
under penalty of perjury by an individual who is a principal, staff
member, or officer of the soliciting organization. The card shall
give the name and address of the soliciting organization or the
person who signed the card and the name and business address of the
paid individual who is doing the actual soliciting.
In lieu of exhibiting a card, the solicitor or seller may
distribute during the course of the solicitation any printed
material, such as a solicitation brochure, provided the material
complies with the standards set forth below, and provided that the
solicitor or seller informs the prospective donor or purchaser that
the information as required below is contained in the printed
material.
Information on the card or printed material shall be presented in
at least 10-point type and shall include the following:
(1) The name and address of the combined campaign, each
organization, or fund on behalf of which all or any part of the money
collected will be utilized for charitable purposes.
(2) If there is no organization or fund, the manner in which the
money collected will be utilized for charitable purposes.
(3) The non-tax-exempt status of the organization or fund, if the
organization or fund for which the money or funds are being solicited
does not have a charitable tax exemption under both federal and
state law.
(4) The percentage of the total gift or purchase price which may
be deducted as a charitable contribution under both federal and state
law. If no portion is so deductible the card shall state that "This
contribution is not tax deductible."
(5) If the organization making the solicitation represents any
nongovernmental organization by any name which includes, but is not
limited to, the term "officer," "peace officer," "police," "law
enforcement," "reserve officer," "deputy," "California Highway
Patrol," "Highway Patrol," "deputy sheriff," "firefighter," or "fire
marshall," which would reasonably be understood to imply that the
organization is composed of law enforcement or firefighting
personnel, the solicitor shall give the total number of members in
the organization and the number of members working or living within
the county where the solicitation is being made, and if the
solicitation is for advertising, the statewide circulation of the
publication in which the solicited ad will appear.
(6) If the organization making the solicitation represents any
nongovernmental organization by any name which includes, but is not
limited to, the term "veteran" or "veterans," which would reasonably
be understood to imply that the organization is composed of veterans,
the solicitor shall give the total number of members in the
organization and the number of members working or living within the
county where the solicitation is being made. This paragraph does not
apply to federally chartered or state incorporated veterans'
organizations with 200 or more dues paying members or to a thrift
store operated or controlled by a federally chartered or state
incorporated veterans' organization. This paragraph does not apply to
any state incorporated community-based organization that provides
direct services to veterans and their families and qualifies as a
tax-exempt organization under Section 501(c)(3) or 501(c)(19) of the
Internal Revenue Code and Section 23701d of the Revenue and Taxation
Code.
(b) Knowing and willful noncompliance by any individual volunteer
who receives no compensation of any type from or in connection with a
solicitation by any charitable organization shall subject the
solicitor or seller to the penalties of the law.
(c) When the solicitation is not a sales solicitation, any
individual volunteer who receives no compensation of any type from,
or in connection with, a solicitation by any charitable organization
may comply with the disclosure provisions by providing the name and
address of the charitable organization on behalf of which all or any
part of the money collected will be utilized for charitable purposes,
by stating the charitable purposes for which the solicitation is
made, and by stating to the person solicited that information about
revenues and expenses of the organization, including its
administration and fundraising costs, may be obtained by contacting
the organization's office at the address disclosed. The organization
shall provide this information to the person solicited within seven
days after receipt of the request.
(d) A volunteer who receives no compensation of any type from, or
in connection with, a solicitation or sales solicitation by a
charitable organization which has qualified for a tax exemption under
Section 501(c)(3) of the Internal Revenue Code of 1954, and who is
18 years of age or younger, is not required to make any disclosures
pursuant to this section.
(e) If any provision of this section or the application thereof to
any person or circumstances is held invalid, that invalidity shall
not affect other provisions or applications of this section which can
be given effect without the invalid provision or application, and to
this end the provisions of this section are severable.
17510.4. If the initial solicitation or sales solicitation is made
by radio, television, letter, telephone, or any other means not
involving direct personal contact with the person solicited,
including over the Internet, this solicitation shall clearly disclose
the information required by Section 17510.3. This disclosure
requirement shall not apply to any radio or television solicitation
of 60 seconds or less. If the gift is subsequently made or the sale
is subsequently consummated, the solicitation or sale for charitable
purposes card shall be mailed to or otherwise delivered to the donor,
or to the buyer with the item or items purchased.
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frypig (国际著名昆虫学家副厅教授博导主攻蟑螂) 于 (Thu Apr 4 11:10:18 2013, 美东) 提到:
大家捐款给她雇律师吧，加州检察官比较tough
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ffjump (看热闹的) 于 (Thu Apr 4 11:10:57 2013, 美东) 提到:
你们太坏了。想用官司缠死康妈呀？前面有个帖子也要告公众诽谤之类的。。太搞笑了
，那位就是一法盲，自己学习去吧。。。
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mindstorm (lego) 于 (Thu Apr 4 11:28:51 2013, 美东) 提到:
这个还是不要在公众场合下讨论了。或者建议把“康妈”去掉，只讨论法律问题不针对
个人
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water123 (字符串) 于 (Thu Apr 4 12:36:59 2013, 美东) 提到:
笑死了，亲友团还要取告质疑派公布康妈地址是＂非法＂的，这不是投案自首去嘛。
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tidewater (弦影·著名走音错拍公鸭嗓) 于 (Thu Apr 4 12:58:08 2013, 美东) 提到:
internet 募捐即使在州内，联邦可能也可以 regulate（类比的例子是
电话的 federal no call list，州内 call 自己州的电话也被那个
管辖）。
因为信息高速公路的 backbone，空中的无线电频带，都是联邦管辖范围。
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hguo (Who+am+I?) 于 (Thu Apr 4 13:20:23 2013, 美东) 提到:
我给你们来点专业的吧，如果是一个慈善机构来做募捐，在哪个州活动，就需要在哪个
州注册一下（不一定是注册 business），符合一定的条件，比如说捐款额比较小，可
以豁免，不需要注册。各州豁免的条件都不一样。注册了，就比较容易监管。如果做募
捐，但不符合豁免注册的条件而又没注册的话，就违反了当地的法律。对于网上的募捐
，很多州的法规是没跟上的，所以相对是灰色地带。
如果不是慈善机构来做募捐，而是为了某个个人来做，各州管 charity 的那些法律不
适用，因为不是 charitable fundraising。下面这个和楼主给的加州的规定，都是适
用于 charitable soliciting，适用 Q 的员工通过 ACCEF 捐款，不适用网友直接给尹
/康家捐款。
http://www.mass.gov/ago/doing-business-in-massachusetts/public-
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tidewater (弦影·著名走音错拍公鸭嗓) 于 (Thu Apr 4 14:08:45 2013, 美东) 提到:
谢谢信息。
Internet/Telemarketing 很多归 FCC/FTC 管，但目前 FCC/FTC 的法规看起来主要是
在 email solicitation 方面，bbs 这种新时代新问题，FCC/FTC
法规看起来还跟不上。其实我觉得更像是真空地带而不是灰色地带。
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hguo (Who+am+I?) 于 (Thu Apr 4 14:12:32 2013, 美东) 提到:
貌似有一些规范旧方式的法律，是可以规范到，只不过网上的东西，证据的形式和传统
的不一样，法律上怎么认定这些证据，能有和传统形式的证据那些同样的效力，这个大
概是难处。
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xiaonbc (ysdbg) 于 (Thu Apr 4 14:17:50 2013, 美东) 提到:
不过至少可以查到康大妈的资产，大量的钱涌入。不过不排除她早就想好对策。不过至
少支票得cash出来的。
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hguo (Who+am+I?) 于 (Thu Apr 4 14:18:33 2013, 美东) 提到:
阴谋论不好
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tidewater (弦影·著名走音错拍公鸭嗓) 于 (Thu Apr 4 14:29:02 2013, 美东) 提到:
FCC/FTC 的很多新法规是预防性质的，覆盖面广。不用打官司直接掐死
在摇篮里。
旧法规要能规范的话，估计得打官司，官司打到联邦高院也不是没有可能。
但案子太小的话，估计就没人愿意麻烦，NO CASE 了。
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tidewater (弦影·著名走音错拍公鸭嗓) 于 (Thu Apr 4 15:15:46 2013, 美东) 提到:
我刚才想了想，里面还是有不少问题。先不说法规条文是不是能规范到，
单从法理的角度讨论一下，我发现可以讨论的角度还是很多。
比如有一点是 广告/solicitation 的 self-identify 的问题。
就比如电视广告，必须明白无误地 self-identify 自己是广告。
如果电视节目说九点档是个大片，结果观众发现所谓大片就是伪装
的两小时大力丸的广告，那这个可能就不是让观众吃苍蝇的问题，
这个明显有法律问题。
类比到 internet bbs 的 case。NG 版的版面是大伙儿自由讨论
宝宝问题的，3k 也禁止在讨论帖里夹带广告/solicitation私货。
当然，这里先插一句，以免误解。关于敏感词同学的那个帖子是不是
伪装的 solicitation，这个属于 question of fact 的问题，
陪审团定。
俺这里只讨论 question of law 的问题，也就是抽象的说，如果
在宝宝版这种公认的自由讨论的论坛里，有一个帖子是伪装的
solicitation 的帖子线程，并且因此获得了比如一万美金
钱的 profit，那这个事情怎么说。。。
还有其他很多法理问题，俺一下子敲不了那么多字。俺有空慢慢写
上来。
但俺觉得这里的重头戏不是在 charity，而是在 solicitation
以及 advertisement，尤其是管 internet 的。我觉得光
查 BPC 有关 charity solicitation 范围太小了。应该
查 BPC 所有有关 advertisement / solicitation，
还有有关使用 internet media 的法律法规。
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xiaonbc (ysdbg) 于 (Thu Apr 4 15:29:25 2013, 美东) 提到:
等康妈进jail的那一天，估计肯定有更多劲暴的内容暴出，包括她老公的股票帐户。康
妈一个美国人，还跑到中国去要钱，无齿之极！美国这里的福利，很多都不给不是美国
公民或绿卡。
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duoAmen1985 (duoAmen1985) 于 (Thu Apr 4 15:33:25 2013, 美东) 提到:
等你等到地老天荒,白发苍苍。
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hguo (Who+am+I?) 于 (Thu Apr 4 15:36:46 2013, 美东) 提到:
赞专业精神啊。我跟不上了。不过直接的反应，随便写一下。
一个是什么法律管什么事。如果是 charity 的法律，就管的是 charity。如果不是
charity 装作是 charity，这个不归 charity 的法律来管，可能算什么别的欺诈吧。
只有本来就是 charity，但没按规矩来，才归 charity 的法律来管。下一个层面，才
是慈善机构或者任何 business 都会面对的问题，即具体的 solicitation 方法。
如果本来也没说自己是 charity，以某种原因跟别人要钱，这个就归别的法律管吧。比
如有人提到有人假装是有什么病，跟别人要钱，人家虽然给你了，但因为你不是真有病
，所以是算欺诈吧。这种情况下的 solicitation 有什么规矩？是不是可以跟
business 的 solicitation 类比？“托”合不合法？这些。。。你真的要去读法学院
（你不是那谁吧？）
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tidewater (弦影·著名走音错拍公鸭嗓) 于 (Thu Apr 4 16:38:18 2013, 美东) 提到:
法律不是 tree，是 graph 。。。 被两片法律同时管也是可能的。。。
另外，祖国的法庭不是经常数罪并罚啥的。。。
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hguo (Who+am+I?) 于 (Thu Apr 4 16:40:09 2013, 美东) 提到:
嗯，两个法律管到同一个事也是有的。
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Mayans (玛雅) 于 (Thu Apr 4 16:55:24 2013, 美东) 提到:
学习。
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Mayans (玛雅) 于 (Thu Apr 4 16:57:44 2013, 美东) 提到:
看尹姐姐的背景，化整为零之类的肯定有人能帮她做好。但是这个支票得cash其实有危
险。
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Mayans (玛雅) 于 (Thu Apr 4 17:07:41 2013, 美东) 提到:
回国要钱是过了，那个周磊大概会被拖下水。到底有小孩的，还是不要进jail了。
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CleverBeaver (Clever Beaver) 于 (Thu Apr 4 17:10:58 2013, 美东) 提到:
麻州的
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hguo (Who+am+I?) 于 (Thu Apr 4 17:12:41 2013, 美东) 提到:
就是个例子，讲这个 charitable purpose 是怎么理解的。个人对个人，不归这些管理
charity 的部门管。
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CleverBeaver (Clever Beaver) 于 (Thu Apr 4 17:13:46 2013, 美东) 提到:
以前那个martha steward好像也被抓过。不够很快出来了。出来后照样大妈粉一大片。
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hguo (Who+am+I?) 于 (Thu Apr 4 17:16:42 2013, 美东) 提到:
有钱人请好律师呗
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katharinezl (linlin) 于 (Thu Apr 4 23:32:15 2013, 美东) 提到:
那，乞讨呢？也要被法律约束？ 路边，一个人穿着很破烂，让路人给钱，这个也被法
律约束？
我觉的法律也许管不了这个case，因为康妈也没有说我这个是公开募集，所以如果是乞
讨的话，确实没有义务disclose financial condition？
法律专家们给讨论讨论？？？
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tidewater (弦影·著名走音错拍公鸭嗓) 于 (Thu Apr 4 23:50:09 2013, 美东) 提到:
这是当然，你想想为啥路边举牌要钱的，你不招手的话，伊不会来敲你车窗。
但路边举牌要钱的，法律上好象是没有义务向你 disclose financial
condition。但是各城市还有不同的规定。
敏感词同学这次是利用 facebook 时代 bbs 网募，法律很可能跟不上。
网募和路边举牌很不一样，FTC/FCC 等等都是管辖范围。
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whatifbar ( 浮生哪得长无事，愿读人间未读书。) 于 (Wed Apr 10 23:51:51 2013, 美东) 提到:
草根坐听买买提law and order讨论。 学习。 谢谢。
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hguo (Who+am+I?) 于 (Wed Apr 10 23:56:10 2013, 美东) 提到:
迟到了！把我的包子还回来！！ |
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