苦-爱用心，用心爱 - Wisdom版

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Wisdom版 - 苦-爱用心，用心爱

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话题: what话题: thoughts话题: love话题: my话题: am

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(共1页)

J******s
发帖数: 7538

以前经常看见一个问题“人生的意义是什么？”如果佛法所讲人生皆苦，修习佛法的终
极目的是为了解脱，不堕轮回，那我们今生到底有什么样的意义呢？我们单纯是因为业
力的原因不得不在轮回中继续打转麽？
佛法的核心四圣谛，讲得就是苦，集，灭，道。其实就是了知苦，如何灭苦，以及实践
灭苦。佛法的实践就是八正道。
今天早晨我突然觉得，其实正是因为我们在轮回里，我们是人，我们在不停地经历人生
，经历五蕴所构成的一切。这不恰恰是最好的让我们了知苦的机会麽？关键在哪里呢？
在用心，用心活着其实很重要，只有用心才能感知人生的诸多困惑，才能感知生命的不
圆满，才能感知原来无我，无常，才能感知苦。知苦才可以想到要灭苦。当苦的逼迫感
迎面而来挡也挡不住的时候，我们自然很想离苦，于是寻找解脱之道。发自肺腑想要灭
苦，才能认真学习和实践灭苦之道。也就是说，人生其实给我们提供了觉悟的机会和基
础。这样看待轮回和今生就会积极很多，因为每一天每一刻每一件事情都是绝好的让我
们体验实践四圣谛的机会。
虽然禅修是最好的实践正见，正思维，正定和正念的方法，但是其实八正道的实践应该
是贯穿整个生命的一切的。为了达到最终灭苦的目的，我们才可以更好的趋善避恶，我
们才会用心的去培养善心和善心所，生命会因为善而变得积极正面，我们活着的幸福感
会增加的。其实知苦和积极的活着一点都不矛盾。知苦为了灭苦才应该更积极的活着，
在趋向解脱的道路上方法非常重要，培养和实践善会让我们的灭苦之路充满惊喜。四圣
谛其实给我们的生命提供了一个值得努力的终极目标“灭苦”，其实相当有积极的意义。
苦，还是灭苦，取决于我们有多用心的去活着。
慈悲喜舍在佛法实践中的意义很重要，尤其慈爱。爱其实也是一样，因为有爱我们会变
得柔和，我们会变得更善于接受，更善于倾听，更有动力并愿意改变。善心和善心所会
因为有爱更容易培养。所以，做爱做的事，找相爱的人。If here is no love, we
will be lost!
爱用心，用心爱。
生命会越来越精彩！

w**u
发帖数: 311

好文，先顶一下

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

义。
不错，积极还是一直要的。
麻烦就是人有认识上的误区和心理上的惰性，
有时候表面上看着好象是消极的行为，比如闭关，
比如离群索居打坐等等，其实内心是一种强烈的积极。
而有时候看上去是积极的表现，其实是内心的消极，
因为他可能是放弃了自主的思维，而仅仅是追随大众、随波逐流。
我感到的误区是，因为人很容易被习惯所迷惑，即使当年
有价值的“离群索居”，也会因为养成习惯，
而在已经不必要的时候，成了惰性。
这时人失去了目标，只是被惰性所牵引。这一点要始终清醒很难。
最近我正在琢磨自己的习惯，也感到改变习惯很难，尤其是核心习惯。
写的不错，感觉你有一些很好的习惯。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: 以前经常看见一个问题“人生的意义是什么？”如果佛法所讲人生皆苦，修习佛法的终
: 极目的是为了解脱，不堕轮回，那我们今生到底有什么样的意义呢？我们单纯是因为业
: 力的原因不得不在轮回中继续打转麽？
: 佛法的核心四圣谛，讲得就是苦，集，灭，道。其实就是了知苦，如何灭苦，以及实践
: 灭苦。佛法的实践就是八正道。
: 今天早晨我突然觉得，其实正是因为我们在轮回里，我们是人，我们在不停地经历人生
: ，经历五蕴所构成的一切。这不恰恰是最好的让我们了知苦的机会麽？关键在哪里呢？
: 在用心，用心活着其实很重要，只有用心才能感知人生的诸多困惑，才能感知生命的不
: 圆满，才能感知原来无我，无常，才能感知苦。知苦才可以想到要灭苦。当苦的逼迫感
: 迎面而来挡也挡不住的时候，我们自然很想离苦，于是寻找解脱之道。发自肺腑想要灭

d********d
发帖数: 1424

信了耶稣, 你这些困惑都能解决.

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

J******s
发帖数: 7538

您老还是去基版玩儿吧，lol

【在 d********d 的大作中提到】

: 信了耶稣, 你这些困惑都能解决.

d********d
发帖数: 1424

老霍不来了, 我来替他们传传教.
信了耶酥, 爱里面就不会有苦味了.

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: 您老还是去基版玩儿吧，lol

g***t
发帖数: 2278

不少人误认为佛法说到苦就是消极的，以为看不到苦--蒙上眼睛的生活才是幸福的。
实际上最积极的生活态度是佛法的态度。佛法是最积极地寻求和解决人生存在的问题，
从而让人达到最大程度的幸福，而且佛法不只是要暂时地解决问题，而是要彻底地解决
。想要彻底解决人生的诸多问题，就必须彻底了解这些问题产生的根本原因--“集”（
苦的原因），没有一个哲学或宗教或修身养性的方法能在这方面分析得比佛法还透彻，
更何况佛法还有系统可行的消除“集”的修行方法。
不要说“集”了，就算在“苦”的问题上，很多哲学和宗教由于观察和智慧的不足，在
观察“苦”的种类上其实远没有佛法细致深入。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

d******e
发帖数: 4192

MISS JEAN,
其慈爱。爱其实也是一样，因为有爱我们会变
得柔和，我们会变得更善于接受，更善于倾听，更有动力并愿意改变。善心和善心所会
因为有爱更容易培养。所以，做爱做的事，找相爱的人。If here is no love, we
will be lost!
爱用心，用心爱。
YOU ARE TOTALLY CONFUSED WITH 爱 AND 慈爱.
YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT,
爱 BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN HAS A LOT TO DO WITH LUST, AGREE IT OR NOT.
爱 BETWEEN MOTHER AND DAUGHTER HAS A LOT TO DO WITH (IN MY CASE)
SELFISH MOTIVATION.(IN DEBT AND AT BONDING).
DON"T TALK ABOUT 慈爱, WE ALL HAVE NOT SUCH A THING, IF YOU WANT TO PRACTICE
慈爱, TRY TO TEACH SOME SCHOOL KIDS, HOMELESS KIDS, WHEN YOU LOOK AT THEIR
INOCIENT FACES, YOU MIGHT GENERATE SOME 慈爱.

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

d********d
发帖数: 1424

只有上帝才是真正仁慈的。离开了上
帝的大能不可能有真正的爱。

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】

: MISS JEAN,
: 其慈爱。爱其实也是一样，因为有爱我们会变
: 得柔和，我们会变得更善于接受，更善于倾听，更有动力并愿意改变。善心和善心所会
: 因为有爱更容易培养。所以，做爱做的事，找相爱的人。If here is no love, we
: will be lost!
: 爱用心，用心爱。
: YOU ARE TOTALLY CONFUSED WITH 爱 AND 慈爱.
: YOU DON"T KNOW WHAT YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT,
: 爱 BETWEEN MAN AND WOMAN HAS A LOT TO DO WITH LUST, AGREE IT OR NOT.
: 爱 BETWEEN MOTHER AND DAUGHTER HAS A LOT TO DO WITH (IN MY CASE)

d******e
发帖数: 4192

爱和慈爱根本是两回事，当你还有人的爱，你不可能有慈爱的.

【在 d********d 的大作中提到】

: 只有上帝才是真正仁慈的。离开了上
: 帝的大能不可能有真正的爱。

相关主题
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● 正念减压疗法	● Hard problem of consciousness[Wiki]
进入Wisdom版参与讨论

J******s
发帖数: 7538

I do not think u understand what I mean.
Anyway, it does not matter. Love is different with loving-kindness, love in
my post can be loving sth, sb.

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】

J******s
发帖数: 7538

If you have never experienced deep true love between a man and a woman, u
can not understand the similarity between love and loving-kindness.
Love is quite powerful, especially the one between a man and a woman (lovers
), which can purify our minds to some extent quite efficiently. The process
is enjoyable.

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】

J******s
发帖数: 7538

The key words in my post are 善 and love.

【在 g***t 的大作中提到】

: 不少人误认为佛法说到苦就是消极的，以为看不到苦--蒙上眼睛的生活才是幸福的。
: 实际上最积极的生活态度是佛法的态度。佛法是最积极地寻求和解决人生存在的问题，
: 从而让人达到最大程度的幸福，而且佛法不只是要暂时地解决问题，而是要彻底地解决
: 。想要彻底解决人生的诸多问题，就必须彻底了解这些问题产生的根本原因--“集”（
: 苦的原因），没有一个哲学或宗教或修身养性的方法能在这方面分析得比佛法还透彻，
: 更何况佛法还有系统可行的消除“集”的修行方法。
: 不要说“集”了，就算在“苦”的问题上，很多哲学和宗教由于观察和智慧的不足，在
: 观察“苦”的种类上其实远没有佛法细致深入。

J******s
发帖数: 7538

This is not true. We all can have and try to culture loving-kindness.

【在 d********d 的大作中提到】

: 只有上帝才是真正仁慈的。离开了上
: 帝的大能不可能有真正的爱。

J******s
发帖数: 7538

You are absolutely wrong!!!

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】

: 爱和慈爱根本是两回事，当你还有人的爱，你不可能有慈爱的.

d********d
发帖数: 1424

人都是有罪的，人的爱是靠不住的。
只有上帝的爱才是永恒的，是真的。
神爱世人，甚至将他的独生子赐给他们，叫一切信他的，不至灭亡，反得永生。
--约翰福音，3章16节

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】

: 爱和慈爱根本是两回事，当你还有人的爱，你不可能有慈爱的.

d******e
发帖数: 4192

我知道你在说这个，所以我才来指正你的。
deep true love between a man and a woman ,就是情欲,
deep,就是比较强烈的了,haha
对普通人来说没什么，只要不伤害别人，就无所谓对错,
对一个真修的修行人来说,不是用这来培养善的,这是阻碍你前进的。

lovers
process

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: If you have never experienced deep true love between a man and a woman, u
: can not understand the similarity between love and loving-kindness.
: Love is quite powerful, especially the one between a man and a woman (lovers
: ), which can purify our minds to some extent quite efficiently. The process
: is enjoyable.

d********d
发帖数: 1424

达妈你这是站着说话腰不疼。
你娃都有了。人家爱尔兰还
没试过呢。好歹你等人家
经历过了再指正呀。
不厚道！

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】

: 我知道你在说这个，所以我才来指正你的。
: deep true love between a man and a woman ,就是情欲,
: deep,就是比较强烈的了,haha
: 对普通人来说没什么，只要不伤害别人，就无所谓对错,
: 对一个真修的修行人来说,不是用这来培养善的,这是阻碍你前进的。
:
: lovers
: process

S**U
发帖数: 7025

对别人的深切关心，他快乐我就快乐，他痛苦我希望能解除他的痛苦，这是不少人能体验到的爱，对子女或爱人的爱。
慈心进一步的净化它，对象不局限在特定的一个或几个人，也不太计较自己在这份爱中得到多少回报。
这两种爱，都可以使自己的心柔软，更贴近别人的心。心有打开的感觉，不再局限于自我。瞠恚障碍禅定，而慈心能胜过瞠恚。
印度教的 bhakti yoga, 提倡 spiritual practice of fostering loving devotion (bhakti) to a personal form of God。
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bhakti_yoga
JDJ "God is love" 也是以爱为主。
两者与慈心有相通处。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

This is so wrong. Relationships are the best vehicles to help people learn
to love and to learn spirituality. There are many elements in a relationship
indeed, including lust, infatuation, and love, etc, but it's not merely
lust.
Some relationships are so powerful and passionate that the couples in them
are shaken out of their usual shells, and then they start to see their own
limitations. With that awareness, they can grow significantly. Other kinds
of milder relationships don't have such a strong effect.
Passionate relationships are not hindering one's growth; on the contrary,
they help people grow tremendously. The growth is a process, and the passion
will mature into be that long-lasting love, that's more and more enjoyable.

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】

相关主题
● zt禅修心法——正確的修行态度	● 灭苦之道-苦圣谛（一）
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● 灭苦之道前言	● 气功能量啊信息啊能量啊信息啊
进入Wisdom版参与讨论

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Karma is not penalty, but a class that we take and learn. If we don't learn
in one class, we will need to take another similar class. That's why when
people do not have that awareness, they may often encounter the same
patterns in their lives over and over again. Once that awareness is gained,
or the lesson is learned, they may easily break free from those old patterns.
The life's purpose is to help the souls grow spiritually. Suffering is
necessary until it's unnecessary. All difficulties are lessons in disguise.

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

S**U
发帖数: 7025

Indeed. Zan.

relationship
passion

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: This is so wrong. Relationships are the best vehicles to help people learn
: to love and to learn spirituality. There are many elements in a relationship
: indeed, including lust, infatuation, and love, etc, but it's not merely
: lust.
: Some relationships are so powerful and passionate that the couples in them
: are shaken out of their usual shells, and then they start to see their own
: limitations. With that awareness, they can grow significantly. Other kinds
: of milder relationships don't have such a strong effect.
: Passionate relationships are not hindering one's growth; on the contrary,
: they help people grow tremendously. The growth is a process, and the passion

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

There's another thing I want to say. When things or lessons happen on our
way, avoidance is not helpful at all, nor can you really do that. Seeing
things as what they are, and then respond out of clarity, rather than react
out of habits, is the best manifestation of "Be Present".
When romantic love happens, could you really avoid it? Perhaps you could
avoid it for some time, even for a life, but you are gaining nothing out of
that. Accept that feeling of attractions, see yourself clearly in that
mirror (the lover) to see whether your ego has any neediness, addiction,
jealousy, insecurity, fear, etc, and then you can work on yourself in the
most efficient way to be a much better person.
Of course, all this growing is not pain free. There can be pain, and perhaps
huge pain, but through the pain, there's healing, and there's deep love
waiting for you to discover.

【在 d******e 的大作中提到】

J******s
发帖数: 7538

热烈欢迎！大赞！
说得好极了，一语中的！

relationship
passion

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

J******s
发帖数: 7538

鼓掌！

learn
,
patterns.
.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: There's another thing I want to say. When things or lessons happen on our
: way, avoidance is not helpful at all, nor can you really do that. Seeing
: things as what they are, and then respond out of clarity, rather than react
: out of habits, is the best manifestation of "Be Present".
: When romantic love happens, could you really avoid it? Perhaps you could
: avoid it for some time, even for a life, but you are gaining nothing out of
: that. Accept that feeling of attractions, see yourself clearly in that
: mirror (the lover) to see whether your ego has any neediness, addiction,
: jealousy, insecurity, fear, etc, and then you can work on yourself in the
: most efficient way to be a much better person.

J******s
发帖数: 7538

赞！！！

react
of

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

S**U
发帖数: 7025

It's so rare to hear straight talk about love and spirituality among Chinese
. If we develop good qualities in loving relationships, it enriches and
deepens our spiritual practice.

react
of

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

J******s
发帖数: 7538

I really like these sentences 'respond out of clarity, rather than
react out of habits, is the best manifestation of "Be Present".'
'then you work on yourself in the most efficient way to be a much
better person.'
The most insightful sentences I read on this board!

react
of

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Thank you all so much for such a warm welcome. I saw this topic from mitbbs
front-page and I liked this topic. I am not religious either way, but I
guess that I've learned more and more about spirituality, and I loved
discovering.
There are a few books that I really loved in this learning process, and I
want to share them with you:
1. Eckhart Tolle, "The power of now"
2. Byron Katie, "Loving what is"
3. Sonia Choquette, "Your Heart's Desire: Instructions for Creating the Life
You Really Want"
4. Bruce Lipton, "Biology of Belief"
There are still many more books that I find very interesting and helpful,
but I don't want to daunt you with too long a list. When the relevant topics
arise, I'll mention those.

J******s
发帖数: 7538

Thank you so much! I read the first one, and will read others later!
Super zan!

mitbbs
Life

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Thank you all so much for such a warm welcome. I saw this topic from mitbbs
: front-page and I liked this topic. I am not religious either way, but I
: guess that I've learned more and more about spirituality, and I loved
: discovering.
: There are a few books that I really loved in this learning process, and I
: want to share them with you:
: 1. Eckhart Tolle, "The power of now"
: 2. Byron Katie, "Loving what is"
: 3. Sonia Choquette, "Your Heart's Desire: Instructions for Creating the Life
: You Really Want"

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● 佛法为万法之首，佛法无边	● 空 emptyness is not nothingness.
● 学自行车和修道	● 我的信仰价值观：不属于任何宗教
进入Wisdom版参与讨论

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Thank you for the marking!
Eckhart Tolle is indeed a sensation made famous by Oprah. It's a great thing
that his message was sent out. The more we read, the more we get to
understand the ancient wisdom. The wisdom is always out there, it's matter
whether we understand it or not.
May you enjoy reading the other books!

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: Thank you so much! I read the first one, and will read others later!
: Super zan!
:
: mitbbs
: Life

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Yes, you are right. Relationships are important lessons for one to learn,
just as solitude may be good for the same soul in another life time.
Susan Page talked about how one person can change a relationship, but not by
changing the other person. Her books include "why talking is not enough, 8
loving actions that will transform your marriage", "how one of you can bring
the two of you together", or "if I'm so wonderful. why am I still single?"

Chinese

【在 S**U 的大作中提到】

: It's so rare to hear straight talk about love and spirituality among Chinese
: . If we develop good qualities in loving relationships, it enriches and
: deepens our spiritual practice.
:
: react
: of

Y**u
发帖数: 5466

英文不错吗..:) 说的挺好, 这正是 '佛法在世间, 不离世间觉, 离世觅菩提, 恰如
求兔角.'

learn
,
patterns.
.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Yes, you are right. Relationships are important lessons for one to learn,
: just as solitude may be good for the same soul in another life time.
: Susan Page talked about how one person can change a relationship, but not by
: changing the other person. Her books include "why talking is not enough, 8
: loving actions that will transform your marriage", "how one of you can bring
: the two of you together", or "if I'm so wonderful. why am I still single?"
:
: Chinese

l*******2
发帖数: 98

你看懂了她写的什么?她那个说的根本就不是这一层次的东西.
有情爱欲望要求的,结婚,没什么不合适的,不结婚真的会出问题,
等到麻烦来了那天,不是伤害别人,就是伤害自己.
生理上有要求,心理上也有欲望,就好好恋爱,解决问题并且承担责任.
这样最少不出麻烦,不造孽.

【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】

: 英文不错吗..:) 说的挺好, 这正是 '佛法在世间, 不离世间觉, 离世觅菩提, 恰如
: 求兔角.'
:
: learn
: ,
: patterns.
: .

Y**u
发帖数: 5466

说实话, 我还真没看出这个意思..
不过我的看法是麻烦不能怕, 麻烦也可以是解决问题的必须.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 你看懂了她写的什么?她那个说的根本就不是这一层次的东西.
: 有情爱欲望要求的,结婚,没什么不合适的,不结婚真的会出问题,
: 等到麻烦来了那天,不是伤害别人,就是伤害自己.
: 生理上有要求,心理上也有欲望,就好好恋爱,解决问题并且承担责任.
: 这样最少不出麻烦,不造孽.

l*******2
发帖数: 98

要人人出家也是不可能的,
在现实中生活,有男女欲望,就成家好了,有好的用心,
自然就能成就好的因缘,好的缘份.
这些事情不经过,修什么都可能还会带来麻烦的.

【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】

: 说实话, 我还真没看出这个意思..
: 不过我的看法是麻烦不能怕, 麻烦也可以是解决问题的必须.

Y**u
发帖数: 5466

其实我觉的咱们这里的人未必人生目的是一样的, 就算都是学佛求道的, 有的人可能追
求善缘, 有的人可能追求仙道, 有的人追求的是解脱, 没个人的路未必会是一样, 所以
呢, 我们不必认为对我们合适的就一定对别人合适..:) 也许我们认为是很重要的问题
, 对别人来说可能并不是个问题..对不对..

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 要人人出家也是不可能的,
: 在现实中生活,有男女欲望,就成家好了,有好的用心,
: 自然就能成就好的因缘,好的缘份.
: 这些事情不经过,修什么都可能还会带来麻烦的.

l*******2
发帖数: 98

无所谓,我想到什么就说什么,反驳也没关系.

【在 Y**u 的大作中提到】

: 其实我觉的咱们这里的人未必人生目的是一样的, 就算都是学佛求道的, 有的人可能追
: 求善缘, 有的人可能追求仙道, 有的人追求的是解脱, 没个人的路未必会是一样, 所以
: 呢, 我们不必认为对我们合适的就一定对别人合适..:) 也许我们认为是很重要的问题
: , 对别人来说可能并不是个问题..对不对..

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

May I know what you meant exactly?
Especially this sentence: 等到麻烦来了那天,不是伤害别人,就是伤害自己.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Also, may I know what you think about mistakes and challenges in life?
Now I see every situation as neutral. Whether it's good or bad, all depends
on the interpretation, or our thoughts. From there, I don't see "troubles"
any more, but only lessons and opportunities.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: May I know what you meant exactly?
: Especially this sentence: 等到麻烦来了那天,不是伤害别人,就是伤害自己.

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b**d
发帖数: 7644

既然都neutral啦，你跟他争什么争？他这么看你，也是个很neutral的事情呀。这是个
很有意思的版面，很多自以为得到peace的人，都在这儿显得不太冷静。

depends

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Also, may I know what you think about mistakes and challenges in life?
: Now I see every situation as neutral. Whether it's good or bad, all depends
: on the interpretation, or our thoughts. From there, I don't see "troubles"
: any more, but only lessons and opportunities.

b*****l
发帖数: 3821

Sharp，呵呵。
人间这点事，就这么些类似的戏码啊，
估计连可能的反驳的戏码，if any, 也就是那几条。

【在 b**d 的大作中提到】

: 既然都neutral啦，你跟他争什么争？他这么看你，也是个很neutral的事情呀。这是个
: 很有意思的版面，很多自以为得到peace的人，都在这儿显得不太冷静。
:
: depends

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

我觉得她的问题是好的，
楼上两位都是playing with words.
neutral不是indifference. or just not knowing nothing,
or seeing a equals b.

是个

【在 b*****l 的大作中提到】

: Sharp，呵呵。
: 人间这点事，就这么些类似的戏码啊，
: 估计连可能的反驳的戏码，if any, 也就是那几条。

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

"你跟他争什么争？"
Why did you feel this way?
I was asking her what she meant exactly, because I didn't get what she meant
. Clarification is not argument.
"很多自以为得到peace的人" I am not yet there, but I am definitely trying.
Where are you?

【在 b**d 的大作中提到】

l*******2
发帖数: 98

同样一个事情,都有正面和负面的作用,你强调正的,我强调了负面的.
仅此而已.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: May I know what you meant exactly?
: Especially this sentence: 等到麻烦来了那天,不是伤害别人,就是伤害自己.

l*******2
发帖数: 98

没错,就是这个意思,你强调正面,积极的作用,我强调负面的,消极的,破坏性的结果.
你们可以下结论,我不愿意make mistakes and take challenges in life.
你们都去make mistakes and take challenges in life好了.
别学我啊,特别是,在佛法中如果把good or bad,都看成lessons and opportunities,
这个已经是很大乘的观点了,我还是不能接受的:)

depends

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

w*****r
发帖数: 7106

别吵了，这个版不许争执的。
BDBD你准备好MJ没有?

【在 b**d 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Okay, I see. Nobody can ever change another human being, that's why practice
is such a personal experience.
I am not a Buddhist, and I don't know what the 大乘 meant by your
understanding exactly.
I'll clarify my statement about making mistakes. I never wanted to
intentionally make mistakes, and I would make choices based on my best
judgement at each moment. Things would turn out in a way that I expected or
not, and if it had some adverse effects that I didn't intent to, I felt like
I made a mistake. However, I didn't regret for the "mistake" per se,
because I wouldn't have chosen to do things in a different way. It was part
of my life experience. It's not a careless impulse without ever considering
its effects on ourselves or others, nor an excuse to go ahead and do things
that we knew that were wrong. With such mistakes that taught me how things
might interact and yield outcomes, I know better what else I can do the next
time.
I am not sugarcoating the effects that bring people pain, anger, frustration
, sadness, etc, and all those emotions are well justified and welcome. Also,
unless you let those emotions pass through you completely (sometimes such
passing needs to be done in multiple times), they will bury in your soul
somewhere underneath, and their energy will slip into your subconscious to
make you do things that you might not intend to do.
I am for "all in", rather than avoidance, and what might be surprising for
some people is that there's no way to avoid things actually (many memories
or experiences are imprinted in the subconscious, even if people consciously
want to forget).

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 没错,就是这个意思,你强调正面,积极的作用,我强调负面的,消极的,破坏性的结果.
: 你们可以下结论,我不愿意make mistakes and take challenges in life.
: 你们都去make mistakes and take challenges in life好了.
: 别学我啊,特别是,在佛法中如果把good or bad,都看成lessons and opportunities,
: 这个已经是很大乘的观点了,我还是不能接受的:)
:
: depends

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

多谢推荐这本“The Power of now”
我这几个月时间所做的正好是跟这本书在结构上差不多完全一致，
内容上还不能确定有多少差别。
也是因为有了一定的经历，然后经过一段时间沉淀后
要把这些经历所蕴含的内容整理出来，以便为今后打下一个切实的基础。
感到他总结的很好，观察很准。
他所经历的，我觉得在佛教上都有专门的术语。
我回头读完会谈谈自己的体会。
世界很有意思，处处都有机缘。
另外你的头像也很好：点亮心灯。

mitbbs
Life
topics

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Thank you for the marking!
: Eckhart Tolle is indeed a sensation made famous by Oprah. It's a great thing
: that his message was sent out. The more we read, the more we get to
: understand the ancient wisdom. The wisdom is always out there, it's matter
: whether we understand it or not.
: May you enjoy reading the other books!

J******s
发帖数: 7538

说得好极了，每句话都赞！
最后一段subconcious的东西和业力有关，在心路历程里面，经常有有分心，很多时候
就是以前的业力的结果。
我们意门心路很都时候就是受记忆和业力的影响，这些我们控制不了，回避不了，
但是我们可以选择怎么去面对。
虽然你说自己没有学习过佛法，不过你说得很多和佛法很契合。
好喜欢！！！
：-）

practice
or
like
part

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Okay, I see. Nobody can ever change another human being, that's why practice
: is such a personal experience.
: I am not a Buddhist, and I don't know what the 大乘 meant by your
: understanding exactly.
: I'll clarify my statement about making mistakes. I never wanted to
: intentionally make mistakes, and I would make choices based on my best
: judgement at each moment. Things would turn out in a way that I expected or
: not, and if it had some adverse effects that I didn't intent to, I felt like
: I made a mistake. However, I didn't regret for the "mistake" per se,
: because I wouldn't have chosen to do things in a different way. It was part

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J******s
发帖数: 7538

yeah, only lessons and opportunities!

depends

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

J******s
发帖数: 7538

The power of now=Being mindful

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 多谢推荐这本“The Power of now”
: 我这几个月时间所做的正好是跟这本书在结构上差不多完全一致，
: 内容上还不能确定有多少差别。
: 也是因为有了一定的经历，然后经过一段时间沉淀后
: 要把这些经历所蕴含的内容整理出来，以便为今后打下一个切实的基础。
: 感到他总结的很好，观察很准。
: 他所经历的，我觉得在佛教上都有专门的术语。
: 我回头读完会谈谈自己的体会。
: 世界很有意思，处处都有机缘。
: 另外你的头像也很好：点亮心灯。

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

哈哈，我看这本书时正好想到这些：
有些事是很有意思的，相反的词正好表示相同的意思，
在作者那里no-mind就等于念住里的mindful.
有时候no-mind表达的更清楚。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: The power of now=Being mindful

J******s
发帖数: 7538

The author does not know being mindful, but what he addressed again and
again was exactly this. I read this book several months ago, and I like it.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 哈哈，我看这本书时正好想到这些：
: 有些事是很有意思的，相反的词正好表示相同的意思，
: 在作者那里no-mind就等于念住里的mindful.
: 有时候no-mind表达的更清楚。

l*******2
发帖数: 98

我知道你会这样说,在我看来这是狡辩,这里多数会喜欢你说的,没什么奇怪的.
我不知道我为什么还要争辩,我的脑子不笨,我懂了,我不好被说服,改变,
我的大脑我做主.
你说的非常圆滑,因为你用英文,听起来很冠冕堂皇,很高贵正确.
你用中文,说说看呢?我选择用中文,因为我在确切表达我的意思.
不要给自己找借口,错了,就是错了,是就是是,而非就是非,
:I am for "all in", rather than avoidance, and what might be surprising for
:some people is that there's no way to avoid things actually (many memories
:or experiences are imprinted in the subconscious, even if people
consciously
:want to forget).
这算是什么借口?人是理性的,人可以控制自己的思想和行为,人给自己找借口,
不对自己的行为负责任了,在我眼里,就是错误的.这是天理,我其实并不老,可能
比这里很多人还年轻,但是我思想里有老一代的传统教育的根在(感谢我的父母和老师)
在我来美国前,我都是那样被教育的.

practice
or
like
part
next
frustration
consciously

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

从他的经历看，我猜测他是不是就是所谓的缘觉根性，
全是自己发现的，没有师承。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: The author does not know being mindful, but what he addressed again and
: again was exactly this. I read this book several months ago, and I like it.

J******s
发帖数: 7538

No, he does not know Buddhism, although what he mentioned was quite similar
with 'BEING MINDFUL'.The way he emphasized was neither 世间正念
nor 出世间正念 in the practical way.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 从他的经历看，我猜测他是不是就是所谓的缘觉根性，
: 全是自己发现的，没有师承。

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

我是在一个很泛的角度说“缘觉”的，
Word is secondary.
正念 dosen't mean you put something,
some concept, some Buddhism quotation into your thought.
正念just means you See what IS, and what is the real proecss.

similar

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: No, he does not know Buddhism, although what he mentioned was quite similar
: with 'BEING MINDFUL'.The way he emphasized was neither 世间正念
: nor 出世间正念 in the practical way.

J******s
发帖数: 7538

No, 正念 is not only what you said!

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 我是在一个很泛的角度说“缘觉”的，
: Word is secondary.
: 正念 dosen't mean you put something,
: some concept, some Buddhism quotation into your thought.
: 正念just means you See what IS, and what is the real proecss.
:
: similar

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

First of all, I am not arguing, nor against you personally. I am asking what
your thoughts are, or what your sentences mean. Your thoughts are not you (
It takes me a long time to see my thoughts and emotions as separate from
myself, or that witness), and I don't know whether you believe all the
thoughts in your head.
Secondly, it's not a convincing game, nor a word game. I don't gain or lose
anything if you agree or not, and I don't see any gaining or losing for you
if you won over me or the other way. I am talking from my understanding. In
English or in Chinese, the meaning is the same.
Thirdly, regarding the "wrongness" in my argument, you thought that "这算是
什么借口?人是理性的,人可以控制自己的思想和行为,人给自己找借口,不对自己的行为
负责任了", have you inserted your thought in there, "To be all in in
whatever we do is not to control our actions"? Is it true that to be all in
is not to take control in our actions?
I take full responsibilities in what I do, including watering here, and I
put my full understanding, up to this point, out here for your scrutinizing.
I don't see any excuses involved, and I am wondering what "excuses" you had
in mind or referred to?
Regarding this "我其实并不老,可能比这里很多人还年轻,但是我思想里有老一代的传
统教育的根在", I seem to see another thought that "What my parents taught me
is right". This is fine, and I am very glad for my own heritage as well. I
am just wondering what "思想" you have had in mind as the ultimate truth
that you hold on to, and whether you have checked that thought over to
accept it fully in heart because you know it's true, or is it because it's a
childhood imprint.
=====================================================================
我知道你会这样说,在我看来这是狡辩,这里多数会喜欢你说的,没什么奇怪的.
我不知道我为什么还要争辩,我的脑子不笨,我懂了,我不好被说服,改变,
我的大脑我做主.
你说的非常圆滑,因为你用英文,听起来很冠冕堂皇,很高贵正确.
你用中文,说说看呢?我选择用中文,因为我在确切表达我的意思.
不要给自己找借口,错了,就是错了,是就是是,而非就是非,
:I am for "all in", rather than avoidance, and what might be surprising for
:some people is that there's no way to avoid things actually (many memories
:or experiences are imprinted in the subconscious, even if people
consciously
:want to forget).
这算是什么借口?人是理性的,人可以控制自己的思想和行为,人给自己找借口,
不对自己的行为负责任了,在我眼里,就是错误的.这是天理,我其实并不老,可能
比这里很多人还年轻,但是我思想里有老一代的传统教育的根在(感谢我的父母和老师)
在我来美国前,我都是那样被教育的.

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J******s
发帖数: 7538

applause!

what
(
lose
you
In

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: First of all, I am not arguing, nor against you personally. I am asking what
: your thoughts are, or what your sentences mean. Your thoughts are not you (
: It takes me a long time to see my thoughts and emotions as separate from
: myself, or that witness), and I don't know whether you believe all the
: thoughts in your head.
: Secondly, it's not a convincing game, nor a word game. I don't gain or lose
: anything if you agree or not, and I don't see any gaining or losing for you
: if you won over me or the other way. I am talking from my understanding. In
: English or in Chinese, the meaning is the same.
: Thirdly, regarding the "wrongness" in my argument, you thought that "这算是

J******s
发帖数: 7538

透视行法（苦谛与集谛）生灭本质是无常，透视其生灭逼迫是苦，透视其没有恒常自我
为无我。对行法的无常，苦，无我三相明记不忘是世间正念，对涅槃明记不忘是出世间
正念。
那个作者涉及的是粗浅的being mindful，距离佛法实践中的正念差很远。
那个作者基本不可能观到十二缘起的，see what it is不是粗泛的。
佛法修行的see what it is 是要观察的名色法的最基本的单位：色聚里的色法，名法
里的六门心路过程与离心路过程心的所有名法，触，受，想，思，识。还要观照这些
名色的因，无明，爱，取，行，业。
所以，那本书和佛法理论以及实践其实深度上差很多，不过还是蛮有一些价值。
另外，佛法里的名词有严格定义，没有所谓的宽泛的角度说“缘觉”。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

l*******2
发帖数: 98

First of all, I am not arguing, nor against you personally. I am asking what
your thoughts are, or what your sentences mean. Your thoughts are not you (
It takes me a long time to see my thoughts and emotions as separate from
myself, or that witness), and I don't know whether you believe all the
thoughts in your head.
============================================
你不用道歉,你用中文说,既然你看得懂中文,用中文,因为英文在这里乱搅,
这本来就是很乱的事情,我的智慧是有限的.我对我的思想也是分析鉴别的,
虽然我用有限的智慧来做.我当然知道思想不是我,但是我还没能力
看到思想,但是我基本的准则是有的.
============================================
Secondly, it's not a convincing game, nor a word game. I don't gain or lose
anything if you agree or not, and I don't see any gaining or losing for you
if you won over me or the other way. I am talking from my understanding. In
English or in Chinese, the meaning is the same.
============================================
哈哈,别那么小心眼,我们每个人都gain or lose,我只在乎我自己的gain or lose.
=============================================
Thirdly, regarding the "wrongness" in my argument, you thought that "这算是
什么借口?人是理性的,人可以控制自己的思想和行为,人给自己找借口,不对自己的行为
负责任了", have you inserted your thought in there, "To be all in in
whatever we do is not to control our actions"? Is it true that to be all in
is not to take control in our actions?
I take full responsibilities in what I do, including watering here, and I
put my full understanding, up to this point, out here for your scrutinizing.
===============================================
别用scrutinizing这种词,你真想讨论,别在这里显示你会点英语,这里谁不会啊?
我根本没有scrutinizing,我是认真的,用英语在这里搅的才scrutinizing,搞得人家
都不懂.
=============================================
I don't see any excuses involved, and I am wondering what "excuses" you had
in mind or referred to?
Regarding this "我其实并不老,可能比这里很多人还年轻,但是我思想里有老一代的传
统教育的根在", I seem to see another thought that "What my parents taught me
is right". This is fine, and I am very glad for my own heritage as well. I
am just wondering what "思想" you have had in mind as the ultimate truth
that you hold on to, and whether you have checked that thought over to
accept it fully in heart because you know it's true, or is it because it's a
childhood imprint.
======================================
我说的始终是你对待KARMA的态度,我只说了句我不同意,我就是不同意你说的那些.
别SHOW OFF heritage 这种词,本来就很模糊的,还用英语拽,你拽个啥?小资得很:)
我说的不是heritage,传统文化和heritage无关,是最宝贵,最精华的那些:)那是
一种人生态度,也是理念.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

"你不用道歉" I have never apologized, as I didn't see that I have done you
any harm nor intended it.
"你用中文说,既然你看得懂中文,用中文,因为英文在这里乱搅"
Using English is my preference, since it's easier for me to type it here.
You understand English, that's all it matters. I don't see it as
interrupting anything.
"哈哈,别那么小心眼,我们每个人都gain or lose"
:-) I don't gain or lose anything, and that's what I said and meant.
"我只在乎我自己的gain or lose." That's what you said and meant. That's fine
with me.
"你真想讨论,别在这里显示你会点英语,这里谁不会啊?" Again I really don't see
my using English as a show-off, especially because everybody knows it.
"我说的始终是你对待KARMA的态度,我只说了句我不同意,我就是不同意你说的那些.别
SHOW OFF heritage 这种词,本来就很模糊的,还用英语拽,你拽个啥?小资得很:)我说的
不是heritage,传统文化和heritage无关,是最宝贵,最精华的那些:)那是一种人生态度,
也是理念."
Could you elaborate on what you are disagreeing with exactly? The idea that
"all difficulties are lessons", "there are things we can not control", or "
avoiding does not help us grow"? Those ideas are what I am for.
Also, could you elaborate on what you are talking about as "最宝贵,最精华的
那些", and "那是一种人生态度,也是理念." What ideas are these exactly?
I see the ideas that I am for are what I am learning from my upbringing and
my experiences.

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

I am not a Buddhist, but Buddhism seems to contain great wisdom. What I am
inclined to believe now is that this wisdom is universal, simple, and
original, even across all religions, despite so many different rituals and
man-made power struggles. Such wisdom is within our grasp when we seek it.
I am looking forward to it.
Exactly. People learn not because the teachers are there, but because they
are seeking the answers. The teachers will be there when the student is
ready, otherwise no one can make another one change.
Thank you!

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

I think the author's experience is typical for such enlightenment. He was
deeply depressed for multiple years and suddenly he realized his separation
from his thoughts.
The same applies to Byron Katie, the author of "loving what is". Her
approach, The Work, is very simple and effective, to turn every thought
around. Before her enlightenment, she was very irritable, deeply depressed,
with very low self-esteem or no feeling of self-worthiness, until one day
she woke up and saw that she was not her thoughts, and she started to see
all her previous thoughts as dead ropes, but not fierce snakes.
This kind of enlightenment experiences are studied to be associated with the
chemical (serotonin) levels in human beings. This chemical is also
associated with appetite and insomnia. So sometimes it's like an
enlightenment out of deep despair.

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 从他的经历看，我猜测他是不是就是所谓的缘觉根性，
: 全是自己发现的，没有师承。

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Okay, there are many explanations on how subconscious forms and behaves, and I am open to more explanations.
Yes, there are things that we can control, that's our business. There are also others' business (what they like, what they think, what they do, etc) and the God's business (the nature, the physical rules, or whatever belonging to that realm). Controlling others or God's business is to invite suffering to ourselves, that leads to manipulation and unnecessary frustration.
For our own business, the subconscious mind is like a very powerful programmed machine, which does not have the intelligence of our conscious mind, but it directs our behaviors much more than the conscious mind in terms of time and power, that's why it's so important to send some positive programs to it.
Thank you. I mentioned in a previous post that I somehow feels that the wisdom is universal.

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: 说得好极了，每句话都赞！
: 最后一段subconcious的东西和业力有关，在心路历程里面，经常有有分心，很多时候
: 就是以前的业力的结果。
: 我们意门心路很都时候就是受记忆和业力的影响，这些我们控制不了，回避不了，
: 但是我们可以选择怎么去面对。
: 虽然你说自己没有学习过佛法，不过你说得很多和佛法很契合。
: 好喜欢！！！
: ：-）
:
: practice

J******s
发帖数: 7538

People learn not because the teachers are there, but because they
are seeking the answers.
────────────
zan！

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

:
: Okay, there are many explanations on how subconscious forms and behaves, and I am open to more explanations.
: Yes, there are things that we can control, that's our business. There are also others' business (what they like, what they think, what they do, etc) and the God's business (the nature, the physical rules, or whatever belonging to that realm). Controlling others or God's business is to invite suffering to ourselves, that leads to manipulation and unnecessary frustration.
: For our own business, the subconscious mind is like a very powerful programmed machine, which does not have the intelligence of our conscious mind, but it directs our behaviors much more than the conscious mind in terms of time and power, that's why it's so important to send some positive programs to it.
: Thank you. I mentioned in a previous post that I somehow feels that the wisdom is universal.

l*******2
发帖数: 98

不用中文,我不回了,你写的太乱了.
我是真正不在乎别人GAIN OR LOSS的,所以我不解释,这叫随缘.
我已经明白了,你随便吧,我主要看别人的反应,
我的目的已经达到了,我不确定的东西我自己想,
谢谢大家帮我判断.我现在不告诉你我在说什么,
我觉得西方的东西大多是垃圾,中国文化的精华才是宝贵的.
随缘,保重!

fine

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: "你不用道歉" I have never apologized, as I didn't see that I have done you
: any harm nor intended it.
: "你用中文说,既然你看得懂中文,用中文,因为英文在这里乱搅"
: Using English is my preference, since it's easier for me to type it here.
: You understand English, that's all it matters. I don't see it as
: interrupting anything.
: "哈哈,别那么小心眼,我们每个人都gain or lose"
: :-) I don't gain or lose anything, and that's what I said and meant.
: "我只在乎我自己的gain or lose." That's what you said and meant. That's fine
: with me.

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

随缘,保重!
The same to you!

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 不用中文,我不回了,你写的太乱了.
: 我是真正不在乎别人GAIN OR LOSS的,所以我不解释,这叫随缘.
: 我已经明白了,你随便吧,我主要看别人的反应,
: 我的目的已经达到了,我不确定的东西我自己想,
: 谢谢大家帮我判断.我现在不告诉你我在说什么,
: 我觉得西方的东西大多是垃圾,中国文化的精华才是宝贵的.
: 随缘,保重!
:
: fine

相关主题
● Recommending Byron Katie	● I think that this is excellent from runsun.
● 空 emptyness is not nothingness.	● 【五月的鲜花】「我」「无我」和「正念」（1）
● 我的信仰价值观：不属于任何宗教	● 我目前对打坐的理解 (转载)
进入Wisdom版参与讨论

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Regarding "everything is neutral", here's a book excerpt I used to write
down.
http://www.mitbbs.com/clubarticle_t/Daily_Motivator1/75611.html
发信人: TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖), 信区: Daily_Motivator1
标题: All events are neutral. 张德芬：遇见未知的自己
发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul 7 00:22:15 2011, 美东)
All events are neutral. The worst thing that has ever happened is an un-
investigated thought.
-- Byron Katie
A（事件）→B（信念、想法）→C（结果）
“你看，A永远是中立的，因为同样的A，发生在不同人的身上会有不同的C出现。比方
说，我婆婆看到我的时候脸色不太好（A），如果我认为她讨厌我（B），我会觉得很难
过（C），但是如果我认为她当时心情不好（B1），我会很中立地（C1）注意自己和她
的互动。如果我认为她是因为身体不舒服（B2），我会很心疼地对她格外好一些（C2）
。所以不同的B，造成不同的C，也影响我和我婆婆之间的关系。”若菱看着这个简单的
ABC图，没办法想象我们所有的烦恼，居然可以用一个ABC的公式就可以解释清楚。
http://liufu.banzhu.net/article/liufu-1-422250.html

J******s
发帖数: 7538

大赞！

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Regarding "everything is neutral", here's a book excerpt I used to write
: down.
: http://www.mitbbs.com/clubarticle_t/Daily_Motivator1/75611.html
: 发信人: TrueStory (不是幸福的坑不挖), 信区: Daily_Motivator1
: 标题: All events are neutral. 张德芬：遇见未知的自己
: 发信站: BBS 未名空间站 (Thu Jul 7 00:22:15 2011, 美东)
: All events are neutral. The worst thing that has ever happened is an un-
: investigated thought.
: -- Byron Katie
: A（事件）→B（信念、想法）→C（结果）

l*******2
发帖数: 98

这不是个MENTAL GAME 那么简单的事情.
不是你明白了,没有用的.
现在标准变了,怎么量都不行了.
就是一个"爱"字,怎么都可以用来解释,怎么都可以用来说,
但是常常把爱挂嘴上的,不一定是善的,不一定是美好的.
我就是这意思.你知道那个爱是什么,可能是私欲而已.
只要是私欲,就不是好的,包括要解脱,要明白真相,也可以是一种私欲.
你既然看中文,打中文就那么难?呵呵.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

l*******2
发帖数: 98

Could you elaborate on what you are disagreeing with exactly? The idea that
"all difficulties are lessons", "there are things we can not control", or "
avoiding does not help us grow"? Those ideas are what I am for.
这里很多我就是不接受,接受就无疑是降低标准了,自己把自己降低了,
还理直气壮,这是错的.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: 随缘,保重!
: The same to you!

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

不错，我绝对同意this wisdom is universal.
本来就是一个reality, 不可能有两个reality.
所以对这个现实的真实了解当然只能是相同的，不可能弄出多个不同的宇宙-事实来。
当然前提是都在追求最终的真实。
有老师或没老师，或不同老师的差别只是过程的快慢或可行性，但是一旦达到，
结果都是一样的。对我个人来说，师父的作用还是不可替代。
你给人深刻印象的是简洁的信念，简单、直接。
说得太好了。

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

laurara02, I feel like that we may be talking about different things, since
I still don't know what you are trying to say.
You once said that you didn't want to talk about what you felt as your truth
right now. That's okay with me. If one day you want to talk about that, I'
ll be glad to see what it is.
I have laid out what I am believing as my values, and if you have something
specific to say about those, I am happy to listen as well.
I want to know what you have to say, which I still do not get. So all that I
can talk about right now is what you put out here in your comments, which
could be a small percentage exposure of your thoughts. I see some potential
underlying thoughts going on, and I will point out those thoughts. You could
attest whether those thoughts are there or not.

What I want to know and yet still don't know is your deepest belief, value
and truth. Unless you put it into words, there's no way that I will know.
Without knowing what it is that you are talking about, how could I even
comment on it.
Love has the broadest definition. What I was talking about in my earliest
comment was romantic love in relationships. That passion or ecstasy is to
show what is possible. The source to make one feel that love is not the
other person, but from within of oneself. This experience is the best way to
teach one to know that the ultimate love is the unconditional love, or the
Godly love. This transformation is not easy, and perhaps not many people are
really getting there, but it could be the most valuable experience. No
other experiences would be so world-shaking.
"只要是私欲,就不是好的" is what I am trying to pin down here. Romantic love
relationships often include components of ego-boosting, people-pleasing,
selfishness, manipulation, jealousy, insecurity, fear, or other things, and
yet all those things exactly is not the love that I am not talking about.
All of those are manifestations of the ego, and true love resolves them all.
Ego has its functionality, to help one survive in the physical world, so it
's needed for everyone. What we should do though is not to identify oneself
completely with the ego.
Every person is perfectly fine as who s/he is right now, because that is who
s/he is. With total acceptance of oneself, including the selfish part, the
controlling part, or other parts, and then one can go from there to know
that s/he does not have to let those parts dictate his/her lives. Condemning
those supposedly bad parts is not an unconditional love.
要解脱 is a purpose, and its definition or meaning could be at different
levels. Some people want to release or avoid the feeling of pain, that's at
a relatively lower level, or at an earlier stage. Then other people, such as
the Buddhists, want to reach that state of nirvana. Is one more noble than
the other? I see them just as different stages in a journey.
要明白真相 is an action, and I really want to know the truth, that's why I
am reading, browsing, etc. What I have learned though is that this is
different from dwelling on something minor. Being trapped by the minor
things is yet another ego's trick to keep one stuck.
Are 私欲 all bad? They are all part of us, and I love them as much as my
other loving parts.
Besides that, I like to type in English. It is a matter of easiness for me,
and it is also a matter of personal preference for me.
What I find amusing is that you have been trying so hard to get me to type
in Chinese, why so? I have never asked you to type in English.
Did my using English trigger the controlling part in you? Was there any
thought that my not using English was something I chose to do to go against
you? The truth simply is that it is my preference, and it has nothing to do
with you. If you don't like it, it's an issue of yours, not mine.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 这不是个MENTAL GAME 那么简单的事情.
: 不是你明白了,没有用的.
: 现在标准变了,怎么量都不行了.
: 就是一个"爱"字,怎么都可以用来解释,怎么都可以用来说,
: 但是常常把爱挂嘴上的,不一定是善的,不一定是美好的.
: 我就是这意思.你知道那个爱是什么,可能是私欲而已.
: 只要是私欲,就不是好的,包括要解脱,要明白真相,也可以是一种私欲.
: 你既然看中文,打中文就那么难?呵呵.

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

that
You don't have to accept. I am talking about my values, and I believe in
them. You don't have to. If you'd like to share your values and discuss
about those, I'd be happy to.
I can see that you do have a standard in mind. I am just not sure what the
standard is. Can you tell me what the standard is?
I am all in for my values, and they are my values. Your consideration of
them as being right or wrong is your opinion, and it does not concern me. I
do want to know in what way for which value that you think as so wrong.
If you'd like to share some examples, any example, even if there's only one
example, perhaps we can be on the same page easier that way.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: Could you elaborate on what you are disagreeing with exactly? The idea that
: "all difficulties are lessons", "there are things we can not control", or "
: avoiding does not help us grow"? Those ideas are what I am for.
: 这里很多我就是不接受,接受就无疑是降低标准了,自己把自己降低了,
: 还理直气壮,这是错的.

l*******2
发帖数: 98

你们前边都是在讨论爱和善的关系,我一直的观点,男女之爱和善没关系,
你和楼上几个人不同意.你们说男女之爱对激发善心有正面影响.
我说没有,然后就争起来了.
你在贴中,赞美男女之爱对相爱人的人格自查(我翻译你的英文)
的作用,然后你还说,业果是不可避免的,业果不是惩罚而是
功课,人不能怕犯错误,都是机会和功课.......
我反对你的观点,就是这些,我现在翻译你的话,直白不?
我劝你们如果有男女之爱的欲求,就去结婚,不然可能有麻烦,
你追问,我没说什嚒,你也明白指业果,你狡辩,给自己找理由,
我反驳,告诉你应该有基本原则,你追问,我就是说传统的价值观,
西方的价值观是垃圾,就这么简单.
然后,把这些搅到佛法上,类似大乘,什么不思善恶,点亮心灯,
什么的,乱七八糟一堆.......
用中文说,很明了,我为什么选择不用英文,隔了那一层,我不知道
我在说什么,对每个字,我不能产生直观的FEELING,对英文我可以
理解其逻辑和表面涵义,但是没有准确性和深刻感受,这种语言
对我来说是不太好用的工具,我可以体验一定程度的英文的美感,
但是不准确,特别是我们讨论一个简单的东西,被语言扭到
天边去了......

I
one

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

:
: that
: You don't have to accept. I am talking about my values, and I believe in
: them. You don't have to. If you'd like to share your values and discuss
: about those, I'd be happy to.
: I can see that you do have a standard in mind. I am just not sure what the
: standard is. Can you tell me what the standard is?
: I am all in for my values, and they are my values. Your consideration of
: them as being right or wrong is your opinion, and it does not concern me. I
: do want to know in what way for which value that you think as so wrong.

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Yes, that's what I want to know about what you are against.
Your biggest assumption or a believed thought here is that marriage is the
only "good" outcome of a relationship, is it so?
You used this kind of words such as "狡辩" quite a few times, it's okay that
you think that way, that's your opinion. What I was doing was just to
express my opinions and values. I have no intention to win over you nor
argue with you as a person. I don't agree with your opinions, and let's have
a healthy discussion here.
If you think that a marriage is the ultimate goal of a relationship, let's
talk about relationships that do not work out. Would this kind of
relationships be the perfect example for you to show karma? Please think of
a case as the most horrendous example, and then let's discuss from there.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 你们前边都是在讨论爱和善的关系,我一直的观点,男女之爱和善没关系,
: 你和楼上几个人不同意.你们说男女之爱对激发善心有正面影响.
: 我说没有,然后就争起来了.
: 你在贴中,赞美男女之爱对相爱人的人格自查(我翻译你的英文)
: 的作用,然后你还说,业果是不可避免的,业果不是惩罚而是
: 功课,人不能怕犯错误,都是机会和功课.......
: 我反对你的观点,就是这些,我现在翻译你的话,直白不?
: 我劝你们如果有男女之爱的欲求,就去结婚,不然可能有麻烦,
: 你追问,我没说什嚒,你也明白指业果,你狡辩,给自己找理由,
: 我反驳,告诉你应该有基本原则,你追问,我就是说传统的价值观,

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

Also, I notice that you like to call names with lots of resentment if things
do not lay out in your ideal manner to be "乱七八糟", is it the way I talk
that's inappropriate, or is it your mind that is not clear? Everything we
perceive is through our own projections of the outside world, and when you
find so many things unpleasant, perhaps your inside is not so peaceful.
"大乘" was what you used to label my theory. I have no idea what "大乘"
meant in your understanding.
"点亮心灯" is others' comments on my icon, why would this bother you?
"我为什么选择不用英文,隔了那一层,我不知道我在说什么,对每个字,我不能产生直观
的FEELING" If so, it's perfectly fine that you talk in Chinese, and I have
never asked you to type in English. I want to use English, because I think
that English is enough to express myself.
"是我们讨论一个简单的东西,被语言扭到天边去了......" You seem to understand
what I say very well, and I don't see any barrier here. If not so, please
let me know which part of my comments that you find hard to understand.

然后,把这些搅到佛法上,类似大乘,什么不思善恶,点亮心灯,
什么的,乱七八糟一堆.......
用中文说,很明了,我为什么选择不用英文,隔了那一层,我不知道
我在说什么,对每个字,我不能产生直观的FEELING,对英文我可以
理解其逻辑和表面涵义,但是没有准确性和深刻感受,这种语言
对我来说是不太好用的工具,我可以体验一定程度的英文的美感,
但是不准确,特别是我们讨论一个简单的东西,被语言扭到
天边去了......

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

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l*******2
发帖数: 98

"乱七八糟"是中文表达方式,是说这个主题里的东西很多,很乱,很分散,这是事实,
这个和call names 不相干,你用call names这种词描述我,也不是很礼貌的.
我对你没有call names,即使我call names,我没有恶意.
我说的只是我的感受,我没有给人带帽子,你就说我call names了,
我觉得还是很personal的,不过我不介意.
我没说你大乘,我说类似"大乘"的某些认识态度.
你的头象也是个人感受的事情,你不能要求每个人的喜好都相同吧.
你非常喜欢的东西,我可能不喜欢,原因就复杂了,可能是多方面的,各种因素都可能.

Also, I notice that you like to call names with lots of resentment if things
do not lay out in your ideal manner to be "乱七八糟", is it the way I talk
that's inappropriate, or is it your mind that is not clear? Everything we
perceive is through our own projections of the outside world, and when you
find so many things unpleasant, perhaps your inside is not so peaceful.
"大乘" was what you used to label my theory. I have no idea what "大乘"
meant in your understanding.
"点亮心灯" is others' comments on my icon, why would this bother you?
"我为什么选择不用英文,隔了那一层,我不知道我在说什么,对每个字,我不能产生直观
的FEELING" If so, it's perfectly fine that you talk in Chinese, and I have
never asked you to type in English. I want to use English, because I think
that English is enough to express myself.
"是我们讨论一个简单的东西,被语言扭到天边去了......" You seem to understand
what I say very well, and I don't see any barrier here. If not so, please
let me know which part of my comments that you find hard to understand.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Also, I notice that you like to call names with lots of resentment if things
: do not lay out in your ideal manner to be "乱七八糟", is it the way I talk
: that's inappropriate, or is it your mind that is not clear? Everything we
: perceive is through our own projections of the outside world, and when you
: find so many things unpleasant, perhaps your inside is not so peaceful.
: "大乘" was what you used to label my theory. I have no idea what "大乘"
: meant in your understanding.
: "点亮心灯" is others' comments on my icon, why would this bother you?
: "我为什么选择不用英文,隔了那一层,我不知道我在说什么,对每个字,我不能产生直观
: 的FEELING" If so, it's perfectly fine that you talk in Chinese, and I have

l*******2
发帖数: 98

我重申,我觉得传统的价值观是对的,今天人们的很多认识是错的,
而否认这点的任何辩解,在我的观念中,就是"狡辩"的.
我们今天好象什么都不在乎了,什么都可以做,这些会带来果报的,
这个后果会很严重,会某一天严重到比较可怕的后果.
我就是说这个,这个后果,我没说是什么,我只是说,后果是有的,
我相信,这是不好的,是错的,而且是麻烦的.

that
have

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

"即使我call names,我没有恶意." That's a very good example on what is 狡辩. I
could list all the words that I find unnecessarily offensive that you have
used in this thread to describe what I have said.
But I do believe you that you have no malicious intention, just that your
thoughts are not clear. If you don't mind, we can put an end to the wording
issues, but talk about an example where relationship does not work out, or
you find as bad.
Could you give me an example like that? Also specify which aspects of that
relationship are the bad things.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: "乱七八糟"是中文表达方式,是说这个主题里的东西很多,很乱,很分散,这是事实,
: 这个和call names 不相干,你用call names这种词描述我,也不是很礼貌的.
: 我对你没有call names,即使我call names,我没有恶意.
: 我说的只是我的感受,我没有给人带帽子,你就说我call names了,
: 我觉得还是很personal的,不过我不介意.
: 我没说你大乘,我说类似"大乘"的某些认识态度.
: 你的头象也是个人感受的事情,你不能要求每个人的喜好都相同吧.
: 你非常喜欢的东西,我可能不喜欢,原因就复杂了,可能是多方面的,各种因素都可能.
:
: Also, I notice that you like to call names with lots of resentment if things

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

"我们今天好象什么都不在乎了,什么都可以做"
Why do you think that what I said is to do things without considering the
consequences?

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 我重申,我觉得传统的价值观是对的,今天人们的很多认识是错的,
: 而否认这点的任何辩解,在我的观念中,就是"狡辩"的.
: 我们今天好象什么都不在乎了,什么都可以做,这些会带来果报的,
: 这个后果会很严重,会某一天严重到比较可怕的后果.
: 我就是说这个,这个后果,我没说是什么,我只是说,后果是有的,
: 我相信,这是不好的,是错的,而且是麻烦的.
:
: that
: have

l*******2
发帖数: 98

你自己回去看,我不想被你牵着走,你意志很强的,你一直想牵我,
呵呵,你今天早上的英文也有点不客气了,CALL NAME 是骂人的意思,我懂.
而且你说我脑子不清醒,这点你先不要下结论.
区别在于这个,你说了多次由于业力,有些东西你避免不了,在你的浅意识里,
你不可避免要做,你没有说不顾后果之类,而且你说你愿意承担后果.
我说,由于某种信条,可以是传统观念的约束,你可以避免.
因此,我说传统观念的价值很大.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: "我们今天好象什么都不在乎了,什么都可以做"
: Why do you think that what I said is to do things without considering the
: consequences?

l*******2
发帖数: 98

I
have
本来就是一个价值观的区别,对于男女情爱和善的关系的看法不同.
不牵涉到态度的问题,我们都可以说对方"狡辩",所谓"狡辩"就是在一方看来
是成立的立论,在另外一方看来是不成立的,说不过去的.
wording
你说我脑子不清楚,这是主观判断了,我现在不想举例,你想牵着我走了,
这时候,我不走,嘿嘿,没门儿:)

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: "即使我call names,我没有恶意." That's a very good example on what is 狡辩. I
: could list all the words that I find unnecessarily offensive that you have
: used in this thread to describe what I have said.
: But I do believe you that you have no malicious intention, just that your
: thoughts are not clear. If you don't mind, we can put an end to the wording
: issues, but talk about an example where relationship does not work out, or
: you find as bad.
: Could you give me an example like that? Also specify which aspects of that
: relationship are the bad things.

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

"你说了多次由于业力,有些东西你避免不了,在你的浅意识里,你不可避免要做,你没有
说不顾后果之类,而且你说你愿意承担后果."
Actions are not equivalent to feelings and thoughts. I would feel the
feelings, be vulnerable, and then choose to do the things out of
unconditional love, towards myself and towards others.
You imply that my actions are not what you would choose to do, is it so? I
ask you to give me an example so that we can know how our actions would
differ. Also, those actions would generate consequences, for which we can
check further. You think marriage as the only good outcome, but I disagree.
Every relationship, working out or not, is the best vehicle for spiritual
growth.
By avoidance, I meant suppression and denial, that's not being true, and
that's not helping one's spiritual growth and health.
It's good that you notice that I point out this fact about you only this
morning. You have been calling names since much earlier. If I don't point
this out, perhaps you are still not aware of it.
"而且你说我脑子不清醒,这点你先不要下结论"
This is my opinion, and you can take it with a grain of salt.

J******s
发帖数: 7538

Read more book s please!

了。

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

:
: 不错，我绝对同意this wisdom is universal.
: 本来就是一个reality, 不可能有两个reality.
: 所以对这个现实的真实了解当然只能是相同的，不可能弄出多个不同的宇宙-事实来。
: 当然前提是都在追求最终的真实。
: 有老师或没老师，或不同老师的差别只是过程的快慢或可行性，但是一旦达到，
: 结果都是一样的。对我个人来说，师父的作用还是不可替代。
: 你给人深刻印象的是简洁的信念，简单、直接。
: 说得太好了。

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

我说的口气稍微有点过。我必须承认我感到你有突破的心愿。
不过基本事实是，佛法是直截了当的。
那个作者已经破了想蕴。还有别的。。。
而有些所谓的佛法导师只是在想象佛法，而不是在实修佛法。
所以他们在想蕴中打滚。
正像dipa Ma说的，
Are you really doing it, or are you just thinking about it?
这个作者虽然当时可能没听说过五蕴皆空什么的佛法名词，
但是他做的就是破除想蕴（和其他）的事。
而很多法师，虽然天天念说五蕴皆空，
但其实是天天在五蕴中打滚。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: Read more book s please!
:
: 了。

J******s
发帖数: 7538

I do not think you understand Buddhism!

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 我说的口气稍微有点过。我必须承认我感到你有突破的心愿。
: 不过基本事实是，佛法是直截了当的。
: 那个作者已经破了想蕴。还有别的。。。
: 而有些所谓的佛法导师只是在想象佛法，而不是在实修佛法。
: 所以他们在想蕴中打滚。
: 正像dipa Ma说的，
: Are you really doing it, or are you just thinking about it?
: 这个作者虽然当时可能没听说过五蕴皆空什么的佛法名词，
: 但是他做的就是破除想蕴（和其他）的事。
: 而很多法师，虽然天天念说五蕴皆空，

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f**l
发帖数: 9796

（大段大段的英文看得偶头疼。。。看到大段的英文八成直接跳过了。。。orzzzz请
5454+继续继续啊。。。飘过。。。）

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

其实《The power of Now》的核心很简单，
就是离苦。然后他发现苦的一个来源，就是，mind,thought等。
然后继续观察、巩固、实践此一发现。
这正是破想蕴的做法。而他此书的大部分（我还没看完）重点，
就是在观察（并教人观察）想蕴怎么产生，人为什么摆脱不了，
或者说为什么那么难以摆脱，习惯和习惯带来的恐惧具体怎么产生的。
不过读此书的人的差别在于，每个读者理解和实行的深浅不同。
更不是说读了此书或别的什么书就真的解决问题了。
这和仅仅靠“读”佛经不解决问题一样。

你应该多实践，慢慢就知道我懂了。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: I do not think you understand Buddhism!

J******s
发帖数: 7538

No more word to say.
Have fun!

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 其实《The power of Now》的核心很简单，
: 就是离苦。然后他发现苦的一个来源，就是，mind,thought等。
: 然后继续观察、巩固、实践此一发现。
: 这正是破想蕴的做法。而他此书的大部分（我还没看完）重点，
: 就是在观察（并教人观察）想蕴怎么产生，人为什么摆脱不了，
: 或者说为什么那么难以摆脱，习惯和习惯带来的恐惧具体怎么产生的。
: 不过读此书的人的差别在于，每个读者理解和实行的深浅不同。
: 更不是说读了此书或别的什么书就真的解决问题了。
: 这和仅仅靠“读”佛经不解决问题一样。
:

w*****r
发帖数: 7106

不懂就对了，这就更接近真理了。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: I do not think you understand Buddhism!

f*******8
发帖数: 3612

汝虽多闻，如说药人，真药现前，不能分别，如来说为真可怜愍。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: No more word to say.
: Have fun!

J******s
发帖数: 7538

如来说为真可怜愍 to you
lol

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 汝虽多闻，如说药人，真药现前，不能分别，如来说为真可怜愍。

w*****r
发帖数: 7106

唉，我看你们都可怜民文心。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: 如来说为真可怜愍 to you
: lol

Y**u
发帖数: 5466

l*******2
发帖数: 98

你确实很能狡辩,1)你一开始说的不是这个,你说的是"浪漫的男女关系",你没说
是道德允许的还是没有的,也没说有没有什么行为参与,很难让人理解成仅仅是"起心动
念".
2)你把"浪漫的男女关系"降低成"起心动念"了,然后你赞美这个机会,
把"起心动念"转化成了"对人对己的慈悲".
我还是不同意,1)道德不允许的就是错误的,提婚姻是因为这是在道德范畴内的.
2)这种"起心动念"不值得赞美,这是我们的分歧,也不可能转化成"对人对己的慈悲".
我坚持"对人对己的慈悲"一定要建立在无欲的基础上,先搞清楚这个
"起心动念"是否是好的,因为这一定是私的,有欲望的,所以不应该有的,
然后才能建立真正的慈悲.
我不喜欢很多人给自己找借口,把很多东西说成是成长必须的,
这里其实很微妙的,明明自己没做好,自己为什么不感觉到羞耻呢,
反而说这是应该被宽容的,这是对我们精神境界提高有易的.
必需的,不可避免的,人可以给自己宽容的理由,
而这个就是有"爱心"的表现吗?
By avoidance, I meant suppression and denial, that's not being true, and
that's not helping one's spiritual growth and health.
你怎么知道avoidance就不正常,一会儿说人家脑子不正常,一会儿说人家身体不正常,
可是不太好,你又不是医生,我也不用你开药方:))

"你说了多次由于业力,有些东西你避免不了,在你的浅意识里,你不可避免要做,你没有
说不顾后果之类,而且你说你愿意承担后果."
Actions are not equivalent to feelings and thoughts. I would feel the
feelings, be vulnerable, and then choose to do the things out of
unconditional love, towards myself and towards others.
You imply that my actions are not what you would choose to do, is it so? I
ask you to give me an example so that we can know how our actions would
differ. Also, those actions would generate consequences, for which we can
check further. You think marriage as the only good outcome, but I disagree.
Every relationship, working out or not, is the best vehicle for spiritual
growth.
By avoidance, I meant suppression and denial, that's not being true, and
that's not helping one's spiritual growth and health.
It's good that you notice that I point out this fact about you only this
morning. You have been calling names since much earlier. If I don't point
this out, perhaps you are still not aware of it.
"而且你说我脑子不清醒,这点你先不要下结论"
This is my opinion, and you can take it with a grain of salt.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: "你说了多次由于业力,有些东西你避免不了,在你的浅意识里,你不可避免要做,你没有
: 说不顾后果之类,而且你说你愿意承担后果."
: Actions are not equivalent to feelings and thoughts. I would feel the
: feelings, be vulnerable, and then choose to do the things out of
: unconditional love, towards myself and towards others.
: You imply that my actions are not what you would choose to do, is it so? I
: ask you to give me an example so that we can know how our actions would
: differ. Also, those actions would generate consequences, for which we can
: check further. You think marriage as the only good outcome, but I disagree.
: Every relationship, working out or not, is the best vehicle for spiritual

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

100

I really didn't mean just "起心动念", I meant "浪漫的男女关系", and I
especially meant the ones that shook people out of their usual shells, or
the most passionate ones.
"这种"起心动念"不值得赞美", I am not praising the feelings and attractions,
nor discounting them. I accept them when they happen, and I see their
potentials to work on me.
I am saying that a passionate relationship is the one that shows people how
beautiful love can be. When people are first in such experiences, they may
think that it's the other person that is so special to make them feel that
way, but it's not. That loving feeling is from within oneself, and that love
can be sustained by finding out the well of love from within. With this
love, you can be in love all by yourself, and you can love others in the
best way.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 你确实很能狡辩,1)你一开始说的不是这个,你说的是"浪漫的男女关系",你没说
: 是道德允许的还是没有的,也没说有没有什么行为参与,很难让人理解成仅仅是"起心动
: 念".
: 2)你把"浪漫的男女关系"降低成"起心动念"了,然后你赞美这个机会,
: 把"起心动念"转化成了"对人对己的慈悲".
: 我还是不同意,1)道德不允许的就是错误的,提婚姻是因为这是在道德范畴内的.
: 2)这种"起心动念"不值得赞美,这是我们的分歧,也不可能转化成"对人对己的慈悲".
: 我坚持"对人对己的慈悲"一定要建立在无欲的基础上,先搞清楚这个
: "起心动念"是否是好的,因为这一定是私的,有欲望的,所以不应该有的,
: 然后才能建立真正的慈悲.

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T*******y
发帖数: 6523

101

"我不喜欢很多人给自己找借口,把很多东西说成是成长必须的,
这里其实很微妙的,明明自己没做好,自己为什么不感觉到羞耻呢,
反而说这是应该被宽容的,这是对我们精神境界提高有易的.
必需的,不可避免的,人可以给自己宽容的理由,
而这个就是有"爱心"的表现吗?"
Re the sentences above, you are really misunderstanding what I am talking
about here.
"把很多东西说成是成长必须的"
Things happen not because it is "成长必须的". But because it happened, then
I accepted it, and I learned from it. I didn't argue with the reality to
say something that "it should not happen", "I don't need it to happen", or "
Why did it happen to me?"
"明明自己没做好,自己为什么不感觉到羞耻呢,"
It sounds like you have lots of shame feeling in yourself, and you don't
accept your past with total acceptance. I am not shameful for what I did, as
I wouldn't have chosen to do things differently, and I will still make
choices based on my best judgement at each moment. I did my best, and I will
continue to do my best. I am proud.
"人可以给自己宽容的理由"
I said earlier that to be all in for what I do is not an excuse to do
something that I know as wrong. You have to make the best judgement at each
moment. This is my business and what I can control. Things progress also
based on others' business and God's business, which I have no control, and I
don't need to worry about those. However it works out, I have no regrets.

J******s
发帖数: 7538

102

说得太好了，最后一段！

,
how
love

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: I really didn't mean just "起心动念", I meant "浪漫的男女关系", and I
: especially meant the ones that shook people out of their usual shells, or
: the most passionate ones.
: "这种"起心动念"不值得赞美", I am not praising the feelings and attractions,
: nor discounting them. I accept them when they happen, and I see their
: potentials to work on me.
: I am saying that a passionate relationship is the one that shows people how
: beautiful love can be. When people are first in such experiences, they may
: think that it's the other person that is so special to make them feel that
: way, but it's not. That loving feeling is from within oneself, and that love

J******s
发帖数: 7538

103

最正确的做人态度！

then

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: "我不喜欢很多人给自己找借口,把很多东西说成是成长必须的,
: 这里其实很微妙的,明明自己没做好,自己为什么不感觉到羞耻呢,
: 反而说这是应该被宽容的,这是对我们精神境界提高有易的.
: 必需的,不可避免的,人可以给自己宽容的理由,
: 而这个就是有"爱心"的表现吗?"
: Re the sentences above, you are really misunderstanding what I am talking
: about here.
: "把很多东西说成是成长必须的"
: Things happen not because it is "成长必须的". But because it happened, then
: I accepted it, and I learned from it. I didn't argue with the reality to

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

104

"怎么知道avoidance就不正常"
Re this, avoidance is an attitude many people take, perhaps including yourself, and I don't like that attitude. However, it is normal, because it exists prevalently. It is normal for a person who chooses to avoid until that person changes. That's the reality, and I fully accept it.
As to the effects of avoidance, they are multi-faceted. I recommend a book "Radical Honesty", which talks about how not being true to others, and especially to oneself, makes people deeply depressed, and the solution is to be completely honest. When one can face the difficulties head-on, including the attractions one feels that s/he wants to avoid, s/he can dig out what attracts him/her in the first place, what s/he needs the most, and discover more about himself/herself. All this awareness is very much needed for one's spiritual growth.

J******s
发帖数: 7538

105

正确无比，和being mindful异曲同工。

it
to

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: "怎么知道avoidance就不正常"
: Re this, avoidance is an attitude many people take, perhaps including yourself, and I don't like that attitude. However, it is normal, because it exists prevalently. It is normal for a person who chooses to avoid until that person changes. That's the reality, and I fully accept it.
: As to the effects of avoidance, they are multi-faceted. I recommend a book "Radical Honesty", which talks about how not being true to others, and especially to oneself, makes people deeply depressed, and the solution is to be completely honest. When one can face the difficulties head-on, including the attractions one feels that s/he wants to avoid, s/he can dig out what attracts him/her in the first place, what s/he needs the most, and discover more about himself/herself. All this awareness is very much needed for one's spiritual growth.

b**d
发帖数: 7644

106

写得蛮好的，不错。但是俺觉得depression的来源是想得太多。最直接的解决方法还
是那个the power of now，活在当下，哪里还有什么烦恼。烦恼都是想过去，想未来，
想出来的。

yourself, and I don't like that attitude. However, it is normal, because it
exists prevalently. It is normal for a person who chooses to avoid until
that person changes. That's the reality, and I fully accept it.
"Radical Honesty", which talks about how not being true to others, and
especially to oneself, makes people deeply depressed, and the solution is to
be completely honest. When one can face the difficulties head-on, including
the attractions one feels that s/he wants to avoid, s/he can dig out what
attracts him/her in the first place, what s/he needs the most, and discover
more about himself/herself. All this awareness is : very much needed for one
's spiritual growth.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

b**d
发帖数: 7644

107

这个世界上的事情很难说有对错之分。在不同的文化和年代，对错都有不同的标准。纠
缠在事情的对错没什么意义。consequences 更重要一点。

then

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

108

Being present is indeed the way out. As to how to do it, there might be different methodologies that people prefer.
Un-investigated thoughts are the sources of suffering. People tend to believe whatever thoughts that come up in their minds, as if those thoughts were true, but they may not be.
One kind of thoughts are as what you said: "烦恼都是想过去，想未来，想出来的。" Another kind of thoughts are not accepting the reality fully with lots of should's and/or what-if's.
Thought are like guests. When they come, listen to them and inquiry them. They can't be stopped or avoided, not even in meditation. Unless they are fully heard, they will come back again. We can then choose our thoughts just like choosing our clothes. We want our outlook to be pretty, and yet we are often oblivious that we may let our own thoughts to sabotage ourselves.

【在 b**d 的大作中提到】

: 写得蛮好的，不错。但是俺觉得depression的来源是想得太多。最直接的解决方法还
: 是那个the power of now，活在当下，哪里还有什么烦恼。烦恼都是想过去，想未来，
: 想出来的。
:
: yourself, and I don't like that attitude. However, it is normal, because it
: exists prevalently. It is normal for a person who chooses to avoid until
: that person changes. That's the reality, and I fully accept it.
: "Radical Honesty", which talks about how not being true to others, and
: especially to oneself, makes people deeply depressed, and the solution is to
: be completely honest. When one can face the difficulties head-on, including

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

109

As a follow-up to that notion to be completely honest, it belongs to that
realm of should's.
One may consciously or unconsciously assume how s/he should behave to be
accepted, to please others, to assume responsibilities, or how important his
/her job/duty is, so that s/he denies his/her own heart's desires, under
lots of pain. What they don't realize is that they can both be happy with
themselves and helping others as best as they can. One does not have to
suffer in the duties that s/he does not enjoy while assuming that that
particular duty is what s/he has to do.
Being connected to one's own soul is the most important thing. It is not
being selfish, but being authentic. When one is truly happy, his/her joy and
love are radiating, benefiting his/her families and friends much more.

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

110

That's right. I really see all things as neutral now.
As Katie Byron said, are the prisoners worthless, or their remaining lives
all wasted? If their staying in the prison shows the young kids, even one
kid, what they should not do to yield that consequence, then the prisoners'
lives have a purpose.
Is a child born before a marriage or without a father totally unacceptable?
Then there would not be Barack Obama.
Are all the relationship that do not work out a waste of time? Without those
, one may not know what they don't want in a relationship, and they may not
learn how to interact or communicate with a partner.

纠缠在事情的对错没什么意义。consequences 更重要一点。

【在 b**d 的大作中提到】

: 这个世界上的事情很难说有对错之分。在不同的文化和年代，对错都有不同的标准。纠
: 缠在事情的对错没什么意义。consequences 更重要一点。
:
: then

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J******s
发帖数: 7538

111

super!

different methodologies that people prefer.
believe whatever thoughts that come up in their minds, as if those thoughts
were true, but they may not be.
的。" Another kind of thoughts are not accepting the reality fully with lots
of should's and/or what-if's.
They can't be stopped or avoided, not even in meditation. Unless they are
fully heard, they will come back again. We can then choose our thoughts just
like choosing our clothes. We want our outlook to be pretty, and yet we are
often oblivious that we may let our own thoughts to sabotage ourselves.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Being present is indeed the way out. As to how to do it, there might be different methodologies that people prefer.
: Un-investigated thoughts are the sources of suffering. People tend to believe whatever thoughts that come up in their minds, as if those thoughts were true, but they may not be.
: One kind of thoughts are as what you said: "烦恼都是想过去，想未来，想出来的。" Another kind of thoughts are not accepting the reality fully with lots of should's and/or what-if's.
: Thought are like guests. When they come, listen to them and inquiry them. They can't be stopped or avoided, not even in meditation. Unless they are fully heard, they will come back again. We can then choose our thoughts just like choosing our clothes. We want our outlook to be pretty, and yet we are often oblivious that we may let our own thoughts to sabotage ourselves.

J******s
发帖数: 7538

112

Being connected to one's own soul is the most important thing.
It is not being selfish, but being authentic. When one is truly
happy, his/her joy and love are radiating, benefiting his/her
families and friends much more.
-------------------------
So nice!

his

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: As a follow-up to that notion to be completely honest, it belongs to that
: realm of should's.
: One may consciously or unconsciously assume how s/he should behave to be
: accepted, to please others, to assume responsibilities, or how important his
: /her job/duty is, so that s/he denies his/her own heart's desires, under
: lots of pain. What they don't realize is that they can both be happy with
: themselves and helping others as best as they can. One does not have to
: suffer in the duties that s/he does not enjoy while assuming that that
: particular duty is what s/he has to do.
: Being connected to one's own soul is the most important thing. It is not

J******s
发帖数: 7538

113

We need to learn what we really want and how to get them.

'
?
those
not

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: That's right. I really see all things as neutral now.
: As Katie Byron said, are the prisoners worthless, or their remaining lives
: all wasted? If their staying in the prison shows the young kids, even one
: kid, what they should not do to yield that consequence, then the prisoners'
: lives have a purpose.
: Is a child born before a marriage or without a father totally unacceptable?
: Then there would not be Barack Obama.
: Are all the relationship that do not work out a waste of time? Without those
: , one may not know what they don't want in a relationship, and they may not
: learn how to interact or communicate with a partner.

l*******2
发帖数: 98

114

听这些职业心理医生的高谈阔论太多了吧.

'
好象这些都是大乘菩萨,来示人的.
?
Barack Obama 又怎么了? 前些天死了的STEVE JOBS 又怎么了?
这些都是榜样吗?
those
not

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

115

As I said earlier, people learn not because there are teachers, but because
they want to seek the answers. All changes are from within. Without an open
heart to learn, even Buddha won't make "you" change. With an open heart,
even irrelevant things make people break through to enlightenment.
He is the child from a woman who is left by her boyfriend, and such children
deserve the best lives as everyone else.
He is the one who pursues his heart's desire in the fullest, without asking
for permission nor approval from nay-sayers.
They are human beings, just like everyone else. All souls are equal, and I
see the great potentials of every soul, including yours, even if you don't
see it now.
My job here is to say what I want to say, that's my business, and I did it.
Whether these words would make any impact on you or not, or how you think
about them, are your business, which I have no control, nor any intention to
control.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 听这些职业心理医生的高谈阔论太多了吧.
:
: '
: 好象这些都是大乘菩萨,来示人的.
: ?
: Barack Obama 又怎么了? 前些天死了的STEVE JOBS 又怎么了?
: 这些都是榜样吗?
: those
: not

l*******2
发帖数: 98

116

搅缠,使劲宣扬自己的价值观,其实每个人都这样,
把自己的认识,用英文,外加似是而非的表达方式,说出来.
就是为了证明自己更加,"正确".
与此同时,给别人带帽子,心理上的问题拉,
对健康不利拉,不打开自己的心了,我需要
一场婚外恋打开自己的心吗?
笑死人了,我的心在我可爱的小莲花身上呢:-))

because
open
children
asking

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

:
: As I said earlier, people learn not because there are teachers, but because
: they want to seek the answers. All changes are from within. Without an open
: heart to learn, even Buddha won't make "you" change. With an open heart,
: even irrelevant things make people break through to enlightenment.
: He is the child from a woman who is left by her boyfriend, and such children
: deserve the best lives as everyone else.
: He is the one who pursues his heart's desire in the fullest, without asking
: for permission nor approval from nay-sayers.
: They are human beings, just like everyone else. All souls are equal, and I

f**l
发帖数: 9796

117

哈哈哈哈，偶很配合的笑一下啊。。。。囧-_-

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 搅缠,使劲宣扬自己的价值观,其实每个人都这样,
: 把自己的认识,用英文,外加似是而非的表达方式,说出来.
: 就是为了证明自己更加,"正确".
: 与此同时,给别人带帽子,心理上的问题拉,
: 对健康不利拉,不打开自己的心了,我需要
: 一场婚外恋打开自己的心吗?
: 笑死人了,我的心在我可爱的小莲花身上呢:-))
:
: because
: open

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

118

:-) I am glad to know that you are a happy and loving mother.
If you check my first post in this thread, I said exactly the same thing as
what I said all along, but you inserted many of your own thoughts or
interpretation of my sayings to prove them how wrong, how immoral, etc.
"我需要一场婚外恋打开自己的心吗?"
Did I mention or even imply this?
If you want to twist what I say with whatever wrong-doings that you have in
mind, this list of yours can go on for ever.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

119

To answer your question "我需要一场婚外恋打开自己的心吗?"
Strong medicine is needed for severe cases, and you might need some drama.
So yes, maybe an affair, that you hate so much, would be the thing that
would change you. An affair would make you know that you are subject to do
the things that you hate, and then you'd have the compassion for others whom
you used to despise so much.
However, just for clarification on what I said before, "open-hearted" means
to learn from everything around us, rather than being so defensive. Don't
twist what I say.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

l*******2
发帖数: 98

120

我最不喜欢的,是你从头到尾都没有是非标准.
为了爱心,你可以没有标准.

whom
means

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: To answer your question "我需要一场婚外恋打开自己的心吗?"
: Strong medicine is needed for severe cases, and you might need some drama.
: So yes, maybe an affair, that you hate so much, would be the thing that
: would change you. An affair would make you know that you are subject to do
: the things that you hate, and then you'd have the compassion for others whom
: you used to despise so much.
: However, just for clarification on what I said before, "open-hearted" means
: to learn from everything around us, rather than being so defensive. Don't
: twist what I say.

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l*******2
发帖数: 98

121

哈哈

【在 f**l 的大作中提到】

: 哈哈哈哈，偶很配合的笑一下啊。。。。囧-_-

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

122

I asked you before what your standard is. You have never answered my
question, and then again labeling me as without standard, based your own
assumptions.
What is your standard exactly? Could you give me an example?

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 我最不喜欢的,是你从头到尾都没有是非标准.
: 为了爱心,你可以没有标准.
:
: whom
: means

l*******2
发帖数: 98

123

我回答不了这个问题,为什么呢?
从大的方面来说,我没能力回答,这个范围太大太高远.
从小的方面来说,我理解的太有限了...我可能说错.
所以还是不说了.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: I asked you before what your standard is. You have never answered my
: question, and then again labeling me as without standard, based your own
: assumptions.
: What is your standard exactly? Could you give me an example?

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

124

Okay, that's fine with me.
I only wish that you could do me a favor not to assume anything about me. I
have my standards, and I try to make the best judgement at each moment. I
wouldn't assume you to be any different.
Is everything clear now, or is there anything else that you want to discuss?

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 我回答不了这个问题,为什么呢?
: 从大的方面来说,我没能力回答,这个范围太大太高远.
: 从小的方面来说,我理解的太有限了...我可能说错.
: 所以还是不说了.

a**u
发帖数: 8107

125

哈，新来的，你不太了解dana，她基本上不是为了和你辩论什么，她就喜欢自说自话，
而且发散的很厉害，时间久了你就知道了

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

126

Okay. Did you also mean that laurara02 is a MJ of danalake?

，而且发散的很厉害，时间久了你就知道了

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】

: 哈，新来的，你不太了解dana，她基本上不是为了和你辩论什么，她就喜欢自说自话，
: 而且发散的很厉害，时间久了你就知道了

l*******2
发帖数: 98

127

你好,我不在乎你的评价,
我从和他的讨论中得到了相当多的信息.
我整理自己的思路也没什么不对吧?

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】

: 哈，新来的，你不太了解dana，她基本上不是为了和你辩论什么，她就喜欢自说自话，
: 而且发散的很厉害，时间久了你就知道了

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

128

Good. You don't need anyone's approval.
No problem for me.
===============================================
I am just wondering whether we have deviated too much from JeanIris'
original post. :-)

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 你好,我不在乎你的评价,
: 我从和他的讨论中得到了相当多的信息.
: 我整理自己的思路也没什么不对吧?

l*******2
发帖数: 98

129

不是别人assume不assume的,
事实是,你在这里发言,别人听了,评论,判断,这是不可避免的,
你说什么,难道不代表你的观点认识吗?
每个人都带着自己的疑问来了解信息的.
我看到我自己的很多问题,从这个主题里,我看到
我的最大的缺陷和局限,你提供很好的反证的机会.
谢谢

I
discuss?

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: Okay, that's fine with me.
: I only wish that you could do me a favor not to assume anything about me. I
: have my standards, and I try to make the best judgement at each moment. I
: wouldn't assume you to be any different.
: Is everything clear now, or is there anything else that you want to discuss?

l*****g
发帖数: 2311

130

我想通了自己的一个问题，因waichi而来去此版，是不对的。
所以，还没道完别，我就又上来了。

【在 a**u 的大作中提到】

: 哈，新来的，你不太了解dana，她基本上不是为了和你辩论什么，她就喜欢自说自话，
: 而且发散的很厉害，时间久了你就知道了

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l*****g
发帖数: 2311

131

还有因对版主副的喜好而来去此版，也是不对的。
自己障碍自己。

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】

:
: 我想通了自己的一个问题，因waichi而来去此版，是不对的。
: 所以，还没道完别，我就又上来了。

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

132

The problem of assuming is that I said that the relationships were the best
vehicle for one's spiritual growth, and then you assumed that this
relationship, if not ending in a marriage, must be a bad thing to hurt
oneself or the partner, or it must be an affair. I didn't even imply that.

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

: 不是别人assume不assume的,
: 事实是,你在这里发言,别人听了,评论,判断,这是不可避免的,
: 你说什么,难道不代表你的观点认识吗?
: 每个人都带着自己的疑问来了解信息的.
: 我看到我自己的很多问题,从这个主题里,我看到
: 我的最大的缺陷和局限,你提供很好的反证的机会.
: 谢谢
:
: I
: discuss?

l*******2
发帖数: 98

133

所以我说你用英文就是搅,你太强调这一点了,还是这一点:
The problem of assuming is that I said that the relationships were the best
vehicle for one's spiritual growth,
你说的可是"浪漫的男女关系"(deep romantic love between man and woman),
你太强掉这个了,好象没这个的人,就不能产生爱心一样,
什么是spiritual growth,我不知道你定义成什么?
好象有过的人就有了灵性增长(spiritual growth)的资格,没有过的人,就没
得到这个过程所带来的方便.我不过就是说,这个过程和灵性增长没什么关系,
而不当的这个过程有不可避免的负作用,我错了吗?
我们整个过程定义不清楚,你变化词汇太多,很多人看见你大写英文,都不
太理你,最多附和两句.
我不过指出你论点不当的地方,assuming是一种例举的方式.
说实话,我已经后退了很多,你还是咄咄逼人,呵呵.

best

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: The problem of assuming is that I said that the relationships were the best
: vehicle for one's spiritual growth, and then you assumed that this
: relationship, if not ending in a marriage, must be a bad thing to hurt
: oneself or the partner, or it must be an affair. I didn't even imply that.

T*******y
发帖数: 6523

134

都不太理你,最多附和两句.
:-)
bye.

l*******2
发帖数: 98

135

我是说的在论点上辩论的,很多人假正经,不感说自己观点.
当然,和你搭讪的不少.

【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】

: 都不太理你,最多附和两句.
: :-)
: bye.

a*****a
发帖数: 640

136

赞，好喜欢这样有情调的佛法。
只在读者上读过几篇类似的，可惜太少了。

J******s
发帖数: 7538

137

赞！

【在 l*******2 的大作中提到】

J******s
发帖数: 7538

138

欢迎回来，姐姐！
我只是封你主ID，没有封你mj,
LOL

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】

:
: 还有因对版主副的喜好而来去此版，也是不对的。
: 自己障碍自己。

l*****g
发帖数: 2311

139

谢谢你。
我的确有自己的问题。
不过，你如果不介意，我觉得你在这件事上也有不周的地方。
1。你封dana时，我帖子已经写明，最低要求是dana道歉，而且dana当时已经道歉，我
也感谢接受，我们已经不再争了。那时候封，似乎不可情理。
2。我尽管自己说话不讨你或大家的喜欢，这个是我自己风格的问题。以前也有网友踢
过意见。可是因此而封，实在是有点过。世界上各种个样的人都有，能容纳的还是容纳
为好。况且，我认为自己实际上并没有违背版规。只是在讨论和回帖上做的不好。
3。在这件事上，我对yisu版主很失望，我本以为她会纠正你此事上的不周，帮你成长
。可是，她却反行之了。遗憾。
我说这些，是因为很感谢你封了我。让我也认真看看这个问题，就是我不包容，固执的
问题。而我，也希望你能吸取一定的教训。能更进步。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: 欢迎回来，姐姐！
: 我只是封你主ID，没有封你mj,
: LOL

J******s
发帖数: 7538

140

每个版每届版主板斧有自己的治版方针：
1. 您长期发表简短，无实质内容的帖子，可以说长年累月
2. 您在本版几乎对所有的有意义的佛法讨论毫无贡献
3. 您在本版从来没有制造过良好的讨论话题，或回帖
4. 您长年累月宣传waichi

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】

:
: 谢谢你。
: 我的确有自己的问题。
: 不过，你如果不介意，我觉得你在这件事上也有不周的地方。
: 1。你封dana时，我帖子已经写明，最低要求是dana道歉，而且dana当时已经道歉，我
: 也感谢接受，我们已经不再争了。那时候封，似乎不可情理。
: 2。我尽管自己说话不讨你或大家的喜欢，这个是我自己风格的问题。以前也有网友踢
: 过意见。可是因此而封，实在是有点过。世界上各种个样的人都有，能容纳的还是容纳
: 为好。况且，我认为自己实际上并没有违背版规。只是在讨论和回帖上做的不好。
: 3。在这件事上，我对yisu版主很失望，我本以为她会纠正你此事上的不周，帮你成长

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l*****g
发帖数: 2311

141

哈哈哈。。。我同意你的评价。
我已经知道了一点为啥会这样，
因为，我没看到真正的佛法讨论，
我没看见人们真有心想修佛法，
空理，虚礼，根本引不起我的兴趣。
我，受了waichi的益处太多了。。。。
以致我看谁都不上眼了。。。。
这点我会注意。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: 每个版每届版主板斧有自己的治版方针：
: 1. 您长期发表简短，无实质内容的帖子，可以说长年累月
: 2. 您在本版几乎对所有的有意义的佛法讨论毫无贡献
: 3. 您在本版从来没有制造过良好的讨论话题，或回帖
: 4. 您长年累月宣传waichi

J******s
发帖数: 7538

142

您大可以去别的地方追随waichi，版主板斧有自己的治版理念。
这里有真正的佛法讨论，看不到是自己的问题。这里真心学佛的人很多，
如果因为您这样的满版无聊回帖而潜水不发言，因为版风被您这样的人主导才叫遗憾！

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】

:
: 哈哈哈。。。我同意你的评价。
: 我已经知道了一点为啥会这样，
: 因为，我没看到真正的佛法讨论，
: 我没看见人们真有心想修佛法，
: 空理，虚礼，根本引不起我的兴趣。
: 我，受了waichi的益处太多了。。。。
: 以致我看谁都不上眼了。。。。
: 这点我会注意。

l*****g
发帖数: 2311

143

我从来没想着主导啥版风。你太小看佛法了。：）

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: 您大可以去别的地方追随waichi，版主板斧有自己的治版理念。
: 这里有真正的佛法讨论，看不到是自己的问题。这里真心学佛的人很多，
: 如果因为您这样的满版无聊回帖而潜水不发言，因为版风被您这样的人主导才叫遗憾！

J******s
发帖数: 7538

144

那最好，看来您是学习佛法但是很喜欢无聊灌水！
lol

【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】

:
: 我从来没想着主导啥版风。你太小看佛法了。：）

l*****g
发帖数: 2311

145

waich离开后，我是就无聊灌水了。抱歉。

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

: 那最好，看来您是学习佛法但是很喜欢无聊灌水！
: lol

R*o
发帖数: 3781

146

how is the Suffering related to Love?

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

R*o
发帖数: 3781

147

agree
habits change is not easy

【在 f*******8 的大作中提到】

: 汝虽多闻，如说药人，真药现前，不能分别，如来说为真可怜愍。

y*****o
发帖数: 300

148

"love" leads to lust; "Making love" releases it.

lovers
process

【在 J******s 的大作中提到】

(共1页)

进入Wisdom版参与讨论

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未名新帖统计// 7月16日

历史上的今天