t******g
发帖数: 17520 | 2 首先给译者和追根究底的人敬礼， 这也是学习的过程，这个世界是一个坑， 坑里还有
坑。 译本有“问题”挺正常， 坛经 也有挺多版本的，有的内容“差异”挺大的。。。
个人觉得或许汉语本身的语言结构和表达的精准度比英文等“差”一些
拿那个有争议的讲三时的出来说一下，英文版还找了一阵子。。。
中文2013年的版本有以下注脚, 世不需要一定是一声一世的世， 也可以是时间段
比方说 伊丽莎白三世， 这里的世就是朝代是指时间段。
==========================
108
《阿毗达摩义广释
》（Abhidhammattha-Vibhāvinī）：
世（addhā，亦可译为「时段」）
是在行进、不断地过去与发生的时（kāla）。
无明与行属于过去世，因为这里所指的是属于过去生
（atītabhava）的因，也因为在取该世时只取无明与行
，因为没有它们的（过去）时是不可得的
==================================
英文用了period,
for exhibiting the causal structure of the round of existence.
而英文翻译是这样的
§ 44. THE ROUND OF EXISTENCE.
Translated from the Milindapañha (778).
"Bhante Nâgasena," said the king, "when you say 'round of existence,
' what is that?"
"Your majesty, to be born here and die here, to die here and be born
elsewhere, to be born there and die there, to die there and be born
elsewhere,--this, your majesty, is the round of existence."
"Give an illustration."
"It is as if, your majesty, a man were to eat a ripe mango, and plant the
seed; and from that a large mango-tree were to spring and bear fruit; and
then the man were to eat a ripe mango from that tree also and plant the seed
; and from that seed also a large mango-tree were to spring and bear fruit;
thus of these trees there is no end discernible. In exactly the same way,
your majesty, to be born here and die here, to die here and be born
elsewhere, to be born there and die there, to die there and be born
elsewhere, this, your majesty, is the round of existence."
"You are an able man, bhante Nâgasena."
所以， 说如果要硬解这个period， 说三世也不是不可以， 不过我同意用
时， 因为是在讲三时， 不容易起歧义。
说白了
或许还是对“时间”这个东西的“有”的执着
龙树的中论， 就三时这个问题在观来去品（？）和观时品（？）都有讲到的
看来是个问题， 我觉得或许看过了就不会纠结 时和世的问题了
How? Ignorance and kammic formations belong to the past; birth
and decay-and-death belong to the future; the intermediate eight factors
belong to the present. Thus there are three periods.
------
When the twelve factors are divided into three periods of time, this
should be seen as a mere expository device for exhibiting the causal
structure of the round of existence. It should not be taken to imply that
the factors assigned to a particular temporal period operate only in that
period and not on other occasions. In fact, the twelve factors are always
present together in any single life, mutually implicative and
interpenetrating, as §7 below will demonstrate.
§7
Here, by taking ignorance and kammic formations, craving, clinging,
and existence are also taken. Likewise, by taking craving, clinging,
and existence, ignorance and kammic formations are also taken.
By taking birth and decay-and-death, the five effects—consciousness
and so on—are also taken.
Thus there are:
(1) Five causes pertaining to the past,
(2) And five effects to the present;
(3) Five causes pertaining to the present,
(4) And five effects to the future.
There are twenty modes, three connections, and four groups.
When ignorance remains unabandoned in the mind, then craving and
clinging are bound to arise; and whenever craving and clinging occur,
they are rooted in and accompanied by ignorance. Further, the terms
“kammic formations” and “existence” both refer to the same reality—
kammically active volition. Therefore, when one set of terms is mentioned,
the other is implied, and when the other is mentioned, the former
is implied. Birth and decay-and-death are not enumerated separately
among the twenty modes because they are characteristics of mind and
matter, not ultimate realities. The ultimates which they qualify are the
five factors from consciousness through feeling (3-7).
The three connections obtain between past causes and present results
(2-3), between present results and present causes (7-8), and between
present causes and future results (10-11). The classifications proposed
in this passage are shown schematically in Table 8.1.
---英文版本信息
Pariyatti 免费版， 版本如下
First Edition BPS Pariyatti Edition, 2000
Reprinted 2003, 2007, 2010
PDF eBook, 2012
ISBN: 978-1-928706-02-1 (Print Softcover)
ISBN: 978-1-938754-20-3 (PDF eBook)
兔子王：
纯粹就那一个单独的问题搞字眼， 其他的不懂， 不敢乱讲 |
