w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 1 If I were that guy, what I would expect you(melonli )to have?
You reraised pot limit preflop, and bet $84 on flop.I would expect you to at
least beat JJ( you were not afraid someone hit pair J on flop), so you
could have JJ,QQ,KK,AA.He went allin, at least he should be able to beat JJ
.Since you had QQ, he was likely to beat QQ too.
I would guess small chance he had AJ, more likely above QQ.
It still depends on player.
If he play loose, he could allin with AJ. |
|
c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 2 there are slow players all around, checking the flop with trips is normal.
If the allin bet was made by good players, it's certainly a good idea to
fold cause they like to charge non-nuts with nuts and it's a typical
situation if you go allin with 99, you still may get called by J.
the
flushes
whole
the |
|
c****u
发帖数: 3277 | 3 所以你希望能从他们这种错误中最大程度获利。很多时候, raise preflop extremely
big是最大程度获利的办法。如果你知道对手会call, 甚至allin with AA or KK
也不是不可以。对于KK, 在late position, 100 bb以下的allin在数学上也是正确的，
即使对手只在有AA的时候call. huge prelop raise的一个好处就是你等于
把牌摊开，对手也还是无法获利。
down |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 4 It's a mistake to calculate based on chips.
Chips are not money.No matter how much chips you make, if you can't get to
money zone, all the chips are useless and you get zero money.
It is not like cash game.
You allin 10 times in cash game, with 60% probability, you win 6 and lose 4,
and net two wins, making good money
You allin 10 times in tournament, one loss( not to say 4 losses) will kick
you out of the game, and if that loss is before you enter money zone, you
make nothing but lose your buy |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 5 It doesn't mean he would call your allin.
He would read your action and his action depends on your action.
He would bluff when you show weakness and fold when you show strength.
This is typical in an online heads-up game.
But I believe to play this game, the player should be much better than his
opponent, or he will lose easily.
If I am the opponent , I will just check when I get good cards,to induce him
to bluff. I will also allin whenever he raises. |
|
k******t
发帖数: 257 | 6 I think that's because most wsop $10k entries are from satellites,so they
care cashing.If you play your normal bankroll like $24,$75 token tourment in
Fulltilt, it's totol nonsense to throw away As when you are in bubble
facing allins. You are making a couple bucks at bottom of the money for
hours of grinding. Forget about miracle, you basically got no chance for
winning if short-stacked going in. All people can call you 3xBBs allin and
check it down.
10K
they
dragon
most |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 7 We are talking about different things.
You talk about read, but I already said OA is not related to read.If you put
read or player skill in, then we are no longer talking about OA.
Image a player you never know his image, and this is his first hand. Now he
allin on a board with A, and you have pocket KK, would you call his allin?
That is his OA, even he is bluffing, you are less likely to call.
这三张桌牌的客观形式就是对他有利.至于你以后通过了解他的风格,做出一些相应调整
,可能也会call,那已经不在我的讨论范围之内.我想讨论的是,桌上牌的构成,有没有给
他一个对他有利的形势.
再举一个以前说 |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 8 I made a few examples to show there are opportunities,but those examples are not
necessarily the best way to explore these opportunites.
In example 2,one don't have to allin, if he only bet on flop and turn, also
can be profitable.
In example 3, I tend to allin.
Generally, good way to bluff, is to bluff weakness and stop when there is
strength. Good way to fight bluffing,is not lower your standard to call
, (like call with lower pair), but show weakness and let your opponent run
into your mons |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 9 I would not call on flop. But if I called, and now I am button, I would bet
800 or 1000 to get the side pot at least.
My read if I bet, the odds are very high to get the side pot.
Preflop when shortstack goes allin, I would go allin too, SB and UTG would fold since they only called before, which suggest they didn't have strong hand.Then I would pay 400 to compete for 1000, with shortstack who doesn't necessarily have good hand. |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 10 Johnny Chan won the tournament but he was just luckier than the rest.
Most of his allins, he was behind and hit his cards.
The first one was Ad7d allin on a flop of 2d,3d,3h, with opponent 2s4s, he
was 25% vs 75% behind and hit flush on river.The last one was KQs vs A10,
hit two pairs.
|
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 11 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - AdQd Either allin or fold.
I slightly prefer fold.
As BB so high and button short stack, if button got mildly strong hand, he
would choose allin.If he got very strong hand, (high pairs,} he would only
raise to induce call.
Besides, BB could fight with button. |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 12 Partial buy-in could fit some special style.
I find when someone is short stack, he play less carefully, and others also play less carefully towards him. For example, he may just allin for a 40% odds flush draw, which if he has big stack he wouldn't do it.
On the other hand,others may just call his allin on a 40% odds, which they would not do if the opponent's stack is big. I think if someone deliberately play on short stack, to take advantage of this situation, it could be an edge. |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 13 1.
UTG+1 [likely]either low pair or AT something, UTG+2 either AK,AQ, or JJ+.
2.
Plus, at early stage of a MTT, it would be wise to play conservatively.
3.
At any stage,with the same hand, I prefer allin when others limp in,
while fold when others raise or allin. |
|
l******n
发帖数: 641 | 14 4 outs is nothing at multi-allins.
think of it again, can u do allin again and again when u have 4 outs?
flush draw is ok, since u will get odds in this table. but what if someone h
olding AQd, then u are drawing dead.
a made-hand all-in is good when u meet all these players at one table, who p
ut all money in for 4 outs. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 15 Be frank, it is very safe. Because I am in BB, nobody behinds me, and he
raise too much on the button almost every time.
Next round, he raise my blinds again, I reraise allin again, he has to fold
again.
I guess that one of the biggest trick in tournament is to steal the blinds.
If you have about 5BB, you can allin and make others to fold.
If you have about 10BB-12BB, you can choose to r-esteal depend on the
situation, do not need to have a hand.
If you have 30BB, and is the chip leader, you nee |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 16 If I hold 4,5, I would call.
In a HU game, if opponent allin on a 5,6,7,8 board, almost certain he has 9,
unless he is a big fish.
I once had A,10 and flop A,A,7, opponent bet BB and I call, turn 5, and he
allin, by instinct I suspect he had 5,5 but I just could not overcome myself
and called, and he did have 5,5.
When I think over this hand the smart thing is to fold.
If he had hands like A3, or QQ, he would not bet BB on flop, 5BB is standard. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 17 I made a lot of such mistakes
button raise, I(SB) have ace 10 suited, allin
BB reraise allin, show ak |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 18 tournament的话，QQ当然preflop allin。不过我的意思是指77和33的allin更容易发生
在tournament里，cash game里有点猛，除非是play money或者特别低的. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 19 today, I have kk four times ,and encounter aa every time.(cash game)
pre-flop allin
all of my KK loses , it so sucks
at least 3 times, I guess the other guy has aa, but still pre-flop all in
them,
maybe it is a leak in my game.
but yesterday, i have aa 3 times, encounter kk everytime. (cash game)
I preflop allin them, every time I lose. It is so funny though.
on tourney , have some funny hands though,
1010 vs jk suited
flop 333
turn 3
river king
another tourney,
jj vs 10 7 unsuited in the blind |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 20 前几天用$6赢了一个$26的token，今天报名参加$27,500 guarantee的比赛，double
stack（3000筹码），1474人，10分钟升blind。
比赛初期一切正常，不掺和乱七八糟的pot，主要靠两三个大pot，第一个小时到了
10000 chip size左右，field从1474人减少到1000人左右。
后来，我AQ call了一个44的allin，输了，筹码掉到3000多。立即switch gear，变得
更aggreesive，开始allin。这时候来牌了，总是拿pocket pair，而别人以为我开始
tilt了，给我action，结果我double up两次，然后kick out 4人，期间的牌比如55
beat AJ，KK beat 88（flop先出8，river出K），等等。那个最初44赢我的人说，your
blessed，呵呵。运气是不错，赢了好几个coin flip。第二个小时我的筹码到了29000
左右，排到第12名，field还剩394人。
后来我换了一桌，碰上两个排在前5名的。我第一手拿到AQ，call 2x raise，flop出来 |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 21 These two are all drawing hands. Actually quite profitable to get him allin
before the draw. But the luck is not on melonli's side.
But AT allin is a little weak. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 22 should say tougher
chip leader raise every hand. I am small blinds, and he is big blinds.
I lower my range to call his allin.
turns out A4o vs A4o
k7o vs my q 10 suit, I get luck though, chop pot.
When he raises the button, if I have any king or ace, raise him.
And get caught one time, I have ace 6 suit, he has qq, but I get luck that
time.
And I lose one chance to Knock him out, he raise allin utg with q 7 off, I
have 88 in the BB. But another 2 guy, raise, and reraise with complete
garbage ki |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 23 Get 8th/1259
tilt for the next hand, go allin with 55, and lose the race.
A little more patient, maybe can come back. I still get enough chips, if I choose see a flop, then fold.
Should say if I do not lose that pot, I will not allin preflop with 55.
Full Tilt Poker Game #10639892026: $28,000 Guarantee (80074493), Table 19 -
10000/20000 Ante 2500 - No Limit Hold'em - 3:53:58 ET - 2009/02/15
Seat 1: deeman270 (273,076)
Seat 3: igetquadsalot (167,785)
Seat 4: SchefferPG (500,645)
Seat 5: jaymokick |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 24 It is final table. And I can see a flop, and check fold. still have 12bb
left, which is good enough, little below average, but that is ok.
No need to play 5050 there.
I do make call with 48suited against other people's allin sometimes, but
usually I have him covered. ( :)I did that yesterday in that tourney, I
raise 2.4bb utg with 48suited, guy re-raise allin with 9bb using aqo, I
called immediately since that is bubble time and I get him covered.)
However, I usually will not risk my whole tourn |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 25 When I first play big MTT, I usually can go very deep, because I just allin
when I have some sort of hands. At that time, I just played Freeroll, allin is my way to play freeroll. However, when I know payout, and a little about game, I become cautious, and never goes deep.
Therefore, maybe your 老丈人 can win one big MTT. Not joking. Just like
Jerry Yang can win Wsop, apparently he is not the best in the field. :)
But in the long run, the skills dominate.---You should mention it to your 老
丈人 also |
|
p*******r
发帖数: 100 | 26 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 问一手牌 到最后俩人了，WlkRambo allin后，doctorhowser还是fold了。我想问的是，如果是
headsup，手里是AA或KK，当stack差不多，剩余筹码能reraise到4x左右的时候，应该
reraise allin么？我觉得应该call或者做min reraise，然后争取在flop后多赢点，你
们觉得呢？如果WlkRambo也是这么想的话，可能手里是AK，或者QQ,JJ之类。
Full Tilt Poker Game #11078199304: $33,000 Guarantee (1r+1a) (82403538),
Table 23 - 8000/16000 Ante 2000 - No Limit Hold'em - 2:11:20 ET - 2009/03/11
Seat 2: doctorhowser (696,084)
Seat 4: WlkRambo (447,416)
doctorhowser antes 2,000
WlkRambo antes 2,000
WlkRambo posts the small blind of 8,000
docto |
|
p*******r
发帖数: 100 | 27 对方倒数第二手semibluff实在不该allin，最后一手运气不好。KKRUN call flop
allin是不是因为对方pre flop的raise呢？以为对方是overcards? |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 28 contradictorily, I only play turbo 18->5 game.
the game is a lot different.
You need push allin a lot to collect blinds.
Actually, this strategy also applies to sng.
This habit changes my MTT. I like allin a lot in MTT also.
To be frank, sometimes I just feel it is not worth to play normal 18->5
token game. A game normals last 1.5 hours+, usually 2 hours. Your average
profit should be very very slim. except you can play 10 games simultaneously
.
please
or
aggressively |
|
H*******n
发帖数: 914 | 29 感觉最近18->5的比赛越来越难了。
contradictorily, I only play turbo 18->5 game.
the game is a lot different.
You need push allin a lot to collect blinds.
Actually, this strategy also applies to sng.
This habit changes my MTT. I like allin a lot in MTT also.
To be frank, sometimes I just feel it is not worth to play normal 18->5
token game. A game normals last 1.5 hours+, usually 2 hours. Your average
profit should be very very slim. except you can play 10 games simultaneously
.
please
or
aggressively |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 30 I guess the way Jerry Yang played looks like AA,KK.
He 3bet initial raiser, and initial raiser(3 low on board) raises again on
flop, He allin.
What can he have?
Jerry yang must have a big pair. I do not think Jerry Yang will allin with
AK, can not be 1010.
JJ maybe the only hand he can beat.
no draw on board.
I do not know if Richards will fold kk there. I do not think so.
Considering this situation, if KKRUN you are there, you might fold also.---- |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 31 If he worried about flush draw on the flop, why was he brave enough to push
allin on the turn? He thinks a flush draw wouldn't call his flop overbet at
all? Then why allin? If he has AA or QQ, shouldn't he continue betting some
amount to induce a call (and if gets rerasied, still can fold to a flush)?
I feel he has AcA, not AcQ or QQ or other AA.
's |
|
w***w
发帖数: 6301 | 32 在FTP打MTT两天,进FT 5,6次,一个第一,两个第二,一个第4,进钱圈的没进FT的也有5,6
次.
在PS打了MTT一天,所有games都没熬过前一个小时.allin时基本都领先被bad beats.总
共只赢过一两次.
在PS, flop以后对手中对甚至小对都敢call allin.这在FTP根本不可想象.这是输给
good players?就是因为PS鱼多才耐性子打的一天.最后放弃.
FTP也有bad beats啊,但是毕竟good beats多于bad beats
ps只有bad beats,good beats是稀有动物.
你们到PS试一试$3 rebuy MTT就知道PS鱼什么打法. |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 33 Player C's allin is less than min raise, so Player D can only call. How can
he go allin? |
|
p********a
发帖数: 6437 | 34 我土, 我不懂,
1 为啥要allin?
你不能bet比方60$?
他如果是KX同花, 他跟了你的allin, 你输的可能不是很大?
2.that's fate, easy, hh
3.看到J时, 如果是heads up, 那么很可能她是顺子了, 之前她call, 来了8,10,j,q,又
bet, 那就更可疑了. 即使这时候还不fold, 最后那30块应该fold了. 不过我咋觉得你
好像筹码太少腾挪不开啊? |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 35 And some experience.
Today, I saw one guy limp utg, my impression is AA.
I am in the blinds, flop top pair, but easy muck for me.
Small blinds go allin after hitting one pair, which is stupid.
The guy limp utg has AA.
If I have 77 in the blinds, I will not go allin directly.
Several days ago, I played an MTT, fryking2 watched at that time. Utg limps, I am in small blinds, have qq, I repop to 5bb. utg limp raises to 15bb.
I think a little while, and mucked.
fryking2 said it is a bad muck. But I g |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 36 to be honest, that is an easy fold for experienced sng player.
because even I win that hand, suppose I have 2.5bb, what happens when I am
in BB again, and I have been dealt with 27o, at that point, I have around 2.
2bbs, since the antes. I pretty much have to call, and have to win that hand.
And the bb guy has a lot of chips, he will call my allin, t3o is not good
hand to go allin.
The thought process is to wait I am in BB, and get lucky to win that hand.
2 |
|
d******e
发帖数: 2 | 37 个人觉得preflop allin更好一点，blinds太大了，基本打到最后也是allin，而且是AK
这样的大牌. 如果觉得自己top A,K pair fold不掉的话，那minraise的意义只在flop
毫无帮助的情况下能fold掉了。。
mid |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 38 en. If your chip is 2nd or 3rd, do you still prefer allin rather than raise?
in a 90 SNG, the stack won't be so deep and I figure allin might still be
better unless you have a big chip lead against the players yet to act.
If |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 39 allin. I allin a lot on cash game. button raises, I 3bet raise with 57o,
button ships, if I have around 50bb or less, i call. button shows a4o.
Surely, this completely depends on the player. If I 3bet UTG raiser, I will
fold aqs on that spot.
I win the flip. |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 40 lol
fryking is right. If you can not win coin flip, pretty much you can not win the
tourney, or can not into the final table even in sng.
Last time, I play one 26$ 90ppl KO game, down to 3 ppl. We discuss about
chopping. I said:" I do not mind whether chop or not". One guy replied:"you
should chop, because you can not win the flip." Haha, he is right, I allin
or call allin 15+ times on that game, lose 85% of them. Finally I come out as
3rd.
Basic, you need win a lot of coin flip to win a tourne |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 41 go allin .
I guess his river bet is pretty much committed to an allin, should say he
has an ace high flush for sure by the way he played it. (probably, aq, or ak)
If he has nothing, your mini-raise will not get called anyway.
ups
怪。
5NL)
300
个$
Ac7c8d
money, |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 42 pretty normal.
SB vs BB. I am sb, have aqo. I limp, BB raise to 3.5bb, I reraise to 10bb.
BB(40BB) allin, I call. he has q8o
same guy, he is button, I am sb.
He raises to 3bb on button, I(57o) reraise to 10bb(, 40bb altogether for me)
, He shoves allin. I know I am behind, but can not behind too much. Though a
while, and I call. He has a4o.
range非常广， 不愿意我和我玩post flop， 然后我的小对，AJ, AT, 小联牌还真不敢
call 他们， 只好fold。我经常在UTG用小同花联牌raise 3bb， 吓唬人， sb+bb 9块
钱， 不抢白不抢。
的位置all in, 被我抓了几个AQ。 |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 43 NO. The way he played is to build the pot. He does not want you to run away
with 2 pair, even want you to push allin on turn with 2 pair.
TPTK is not possible at that situation, he should know that.
If you have TPTK, he plays like he has a draw(2 spade with one pair, mostly like king of spade), TPTK(ak) may allin him.
He also wants spade draw to fold, or any kind of draw to fold, do not give
any odds at all. He is good player.
That hand he play perfectly.
能被赶跑， set应该还会跟他， 该赚的不会少赚； 一般情况下draw也会被赶 |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 44 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 昨天亏了 It is OK play(at least not very bad) for both hands.
You can not play scary money when playing poker.
Just normal swing. A lot of times,your aq wins KK preflop in one game. And
lose your kk to ajs in another game. I am totally fine with the swings.
Just like you can push allin with draws, wins sometimes and lose sometimes.
Other ppl can do the same thing to you, you have KK, other guy has flush
draw, no ace on the flop, you bet, they reraise, you have to allin, and lose
it. It is just normal swi |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 45 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 昨天亏了 If just preflop action, can you just throw qq away just because button
reraises(3bet). I guess not, because sometimes button can reraise with Q2s
there. If you 4bet there, you are pretty much committed.
If you just call 3bet, then I guess you will not fold to a continuation bet
from button since the board is so good for QQ. If you lead out, button will reraise. If you check raise, button will allin u. So, it is allin anyway
situation.
If you put him on KK or AA preflop, then you can laydown QQ o |
|
q****8
发帖数: 3281 | 46 来自主题: TexasHoldem版 - 昨天亏了 I agree with what you said. That's why I said we need to re-raise pre-flop
to know how strong the other two hold. A full buy-in for $3/6 is $600, UTG
raised to $24, button called, QQ could've re-raised to somewhere around $100
. If button move all-in, it is possible to fold there, still far from pot-
committed.
If you don't re-raise pre-flop, then call all-in on flop is no problem at
all.
bet
will reraise. If you check raise, button will allin u. So, it is allin
anyway
ak |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 47 我觉得这个allin和最后那个call allin是比较糟糕。这手其实turn上raise也行，反而
像有trip ten。 |
|
y********n
发帖数: 2063 | 48 Should say he is very amateur on poker.
overbet allin in a tiny pot, without a hand.
Call 70bb(all his chips) allin with Q high. |
|
h*******s
发帖数: 3932 | 49 I just opened a new account and played 182 hands in 4 sessions so far. I won
in all 4 sessions and I just kept getting good cards or bad beat others.
For example, I had K2 on a KKx board and on the turn someone raised me allin
and I called. He had KT but I rivered 2. Tonight when I sat down at a table
, I got KK in first hand and called someone's 3x raise. He got a flush draw
+ gut shot str8 draw and bet on the flop, I raised him and he reraised allin
.. but he didn't hit his draw.. not long aft |
|
p*******p
发帖数: 13670 | 50 都是这样的啊,据说新来的poker room故意多发好牌,为了留住你
won
allin
table
draw
allin |
|
