T*********s
发帖数: 20444 | 1 发布时间：2014-09-10
据韩国媒体报道，自今年以来，美国电动车市场显现出急剧增长的趋势。在插电式混动
车(PHEV)单元，丰田普锐斯首次居销量第一位。
据业界统计，今年1-7月美国电动车的销量为66,206辆，比去年同期增长了37.4%。
此次统计包括PHEV销量在内。
有分析称，美国市场电动车销量的增长源于美国政府加大了对电动车的普及力度，
以及各国车企不断推出多种车型，消费者的选择余地变大。
按车种来看，插电式混动车 (PHEV)的销量为34,869辆，比去年同期增长了 59.7%
。而电动车(EV) 的销量为31,337辆。
在PHEV领域，丰田普锐斯PHEV的销量激增112.1%，雪佛兰Volt的销量则减少了8.7%
。由此，丰田普锐斯PHEV的销量首次超过雪佛兰Volt，占据销量榜第一位。
此外，福特Fusion Energi和C-Max Energi PHEV的销量各增长了 274.7%和63.3%，
相反本田Accord PHEV的销量则减少了13%。
在EV领域，日产聆风和smart fortwo、菲亚特500E、... 阅读全帖 |
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l*******n
发帖数: 57 | 2 其实这是我买的第三部Honda了（之前先后买过Accord和Odyssey）……
在南加试过Clarity的三种车型（BEV，FCEV，PHEV），感觉比试过的其它EV（包括我目
前开的MB B250e）和PHEV都流畅，也许是因为我比较熟悉Honda的原因？
但是呢，买PHEV的初衷的确是为了退税，车是给我弟弟在波士顿开（尽管电池效率在冷
天是个大问题）。
2017年最后两天从南加跑到Boston，发现Prius Prime居然能比南加便宜近$6000，但还
是签了Clarity，却发现车不能立马开走，孤陋寡闻了，跟加州完全不一样啊完全不一
样！尽管sales contract上面写的是12/31/2017，等收到registration肯定是January
2018了，估计要报2017 tax credit 是悬了，因为8936表上第三项写的是”Enter date
vehicle was placed in service (MM/DD/YYYY)”. 这句话各位怎么理解？谢谢！ |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 3
the foldable 3rd row design in the non-PHEV Outlander suits really well for
my needs. I wish Mistu add that to the US PHEV model. XC90 T8 is too pricey,
even close to the territory of Model X. I don't think it'll become
affordable to me very soon. |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 5 this will likely be the first affordable plug-in SUV in the States (
bracketing out Model X and RAV4 EV for the price and availability). more
images became available
http://insideevs.com/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-concept-s-first-
the front face looks nicer than the current version. If the price is below
40k before incentives, improved (40+mile) AER, and with 7-seat option, I can
't way to get one next year. |
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G*****h
发帖数: 33134 | 6 Next year people are getting XC90 T8 PHEV...
can |
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G*****h
发帖数: 33134 | 7 反正俺是不买的
phev 的话买个 cmax 也够了 |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 8 Cmax还是小了点,虽然很高,但是太短,行李空间有限.设计还是不够合理.
如果XC90 PHEV车内空间跟非混动版一样,而且油耗数据足够低,我会考虑在2016年或者
tax credit延期结束前再买一辆.不过SUV第三排座位很鸡肋. |
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s*m
发帖数: 1896 | 9 别的PHEV不给carpool sticker吗？ |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 10 In Japan, Outlander PHEV starts at $29,300 (with tax, without incentive of
over $2,300 ), while top trim costs $37,400.
这也太便宜了吧。 |
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o****n
发帖数: 281 | 11 请问年底买PHEV，qualify for 7500刀的federal tax credit。从fueleconomy.gov上
看：
A tax credit reduces the total amount of income tax you owe. So, if you owed
$10,000 in federal income tax, a $2,000 credit would reduce the amount you
owed to $8,000. With a credit, your actual savings would be $2,000.
这么说来，如果我们家联合报税时候需要补交税不到7500（从去年报税上看今年大概3K
左右），加上这个credit，就不用交税了？不知道这么理解是否正确？
如果这样的话，岂不是想办法在今年尽可能多一些taxable income（e.g., 卖股票），
反正有7500的credit？谢谢！ |
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发帖数: 1 | 12 应该是tax liability， 不是owned tax。 如果欠税要补交， 买PHEV的 tax credit
可以帮助减少你owned的tax， 甚至是变成refund。如果你收入低只需要交5000块，
7500的credit可以让你不需要缴税， 但不会倒过来找你2500。 |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 13 1.credit跟车的电池大小有关，绝大多数PHEV拿不到7500
2.你的1040表line 44超过你所有可以申请的non-refundable tax credit，就可以拿全
这些credit.跟你需要补交税还是要退税无关。这个一般买新车而且没有太多其他non-
refundable的家庭都能做到。目前child tax credit全部是refundable，所以不影响（
以后要每个小孩加1K non-refundable,可能会影响)。
owed
you
3K |
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o****n
发帖数: 281 | 14 谢谢你的详细回复！如果我家要交税大于7500，PHEV的incentive也确认是7500，那么
明年报税时候可以肯定federal tax会把这7500返回给我吧？当然欠的税肯定>0，不过
肯定小于7500，eventually还是federal返钱对吧
7500 |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 15 Clarity PHEV电池是水冷还是风冷？查了一圈查不到，只是说纯电版是水冷。
如果是风冷的话，还是小心了，不如volt.这么大的电池风冷效果差，电池寿命损得厉
害。
当然clarity空间比volt好很多。 |
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l*******n
发帖数: 57 | 18 其实买PHEV是否真正值得？算完退税和state rebate，也要三万出头。跟普通的accord
一类的相比，多出的钱多少年才能从油钱里省回来？ |
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o****n
发帖数: 281 | 19 Thanks. I fully agree with you. PHEV is more efficient in certain situations
. I chose Clarity mainly because of the size and my familiarity with many
Honda's features (I drove Hyundai before but somehow I'm not a fan of it...)
clarity |
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cp
发帖数: 183 | 20 For RSVP, please fill out the online form at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dEtqZHU2al9qLUhZR0x4S2JnR2NhOFE6MA
PKUAA-NC "Cleantech Forum Series" #4 - Li-ion Technologies for HEV and PHEV,
by Dr. Jun Liu
Dear alumni & friends:
As the 4th event of our PKUAA-NC "Cleantech Forum Series", we welcome you to
join us on Saturday (11/14/2009) with Dr. Jun Liu, who is our alumni from
Chemistry Department, and has been workign in battery technology for 20+
years. He's now the VP of R&D at |
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cp
发帖数: 183 | 22 For RSVP, please fill out the online form at:
http://spreadsheets.google.com/viewform?formkey=dEtqZHU2al9qLUhZR0x4S2JnR2NhOFE6MA
PKUAA-NC "Cleantech Forum Series" #4 - Li-ion Technologies for HEV and PHEV,
by Dr. Jun Liu
Dear alumni & friends:
As the 4th event of our PKUAA-NC "Cleantech Forum Series", we welcome you to
join us on Saturday (11/14/2009) with Dr. Jun Liu, who is our alumni from
Chemistry Department, and has been workign in battery technology for 20+
years. He's now the VP of R&D at |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 23 for those of you who want to read more about electric cars, here are some
acronyms you may see often:
BEV:
battery electric vehicle - often known as a full electric car,
a car runs exclusively on a rechargeable battery. examples include
Nissan LEAF and Tesla Model S.
PHEV:
plug-in hybrid electric vehicle - a electric-gas hybrid car,
typically with a large capacity rechargeable battery. most of them
can run under a "Serial hybrid" mode, i.e. run on battery first,
when ... 阅读全帖 |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 24
早上了，就是不在美国卖。不过一两年之内会扎堆出现，model x, xc90 T8,
outlander phev, Q7 phev, v60 phev, T&C phev, Crossblue phev, Cayenne phev,
X5 phev ...
只是可惜了2013就出来的outlander phev，在美国一拖再拖，失去了先手 |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 25
you need to understand there are 2 types of EVs - plugin hybrid (PHEV) and
battery ev (BEV). There are pros and cons between the two. But compare to
gas cars (IDEs), both have more pros than cons.
read more online at
http://www.plugincars.com/guides.html
for SUVs, there are several PHEV models and one BEV model currently in the
US market. PHEV SUVs include XC90 T8 and X5 xdrive40e; the only BEV SUV is
the Tesla Model X. Most of these start over $60k.
A number of PHEV suvs are coming, including ... 阅读全帖 |
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t*******y
发帖数: 2570 | 26 说起各种环境问题，靠近北极圈、生活在北欧净土之上的瑞典人显然有着更加深刻
的理解，因此他们制造出来的沃尔沃V60 PHEV柴油插电混合动力车型在节能和环保方面
的效果都堪称优秀。不过，如果从地处北欧的瑞典不远万里来到位于东亚的中国，柴油
混合动力车型很有可能会因为油品的供给和质量问题导致“水土不服”。因此，瑞典人
针对中国市场专门开发了汽油插电混合系统，而搭载这个新系统的车型当然也是中国特
有的加长轴距车型，二者结合到一起便成就了一款史上最具中国特色的沃尔沃——S60L
PPHEV（汽油插电混合动力车型）。
内外设计：传承V60 PHEV
尽管依旧被称作概念车，但S60L PPHEV看起来与现售的S60L差别不大，仅仅在一些
细节部分的点缀上突出了它作为插电式混合动力车型的特殊身份，这也与之前的V60
PHEV一脉相承。不过设计师也表示，为了满足中国消费者的口味，车内采用了大面积的
木纹装饰，令车内气氛更加典雅和沉稳，在内饰的整体配色方面也是如此。
动力系统：中国特供的汽油插电混合动力
这台S60L PPHEV采用了一台沃尔沃最新的4缸2.0T DRIVE-E汽... 阅读全帖 |
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j***n
发帖数: 1471 | 27 这个观点很不错，我不认为PHEV会成为未来汽车业的一枝独秀，但我希望PHEV在多元化
的汽车市场能有一席之地。
现在底特律有老中自己开了家车铺，专门给Prius加高压电池包把Hybrid改装成PHEV，
我衷心祝愿这种车铺原来越多，最好把国内那些什么汽油车改装煤气罐的技术也全拿过
来，就是后备箱掏空并排放4个小煤气罐的那种，给整车市场来个先乱后治，哈哈。 |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 28 档次当然不同，但是很多人买车的档次可以浮动的。T&C本来配置就很高。
其实minivan是最适合搞PHEV的，空间大，能装电池的地方多。车子重，但是高速上需
要的动力没有那么多，hybrid可以有效减小排量，降低油耗。车主开这个车主要是去很
近（买东西，接送小孩活动）和很远（长途旅行）的地方，如果有选择不会用这个车做
每天50迈commute.一家2辆车，一辆纯电小车+一辆PHEV 7座车是绝配。
克莱斯勒6-7年前就开始搞PHEV，不过非常不顺。09年部门被菲亚特砍掉，后来恢复
program后,12年因为多起电池过热事故不得不中断。 |
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G*****h
发帖数: 33134 | 29 加拿大的价格。米国的看来便宜1w2
那么 T8 就只要 6w 冒头了，比预期的 6w5 还要低一点。
等 T8。。？
http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-264281.html
The T6 AWD is offered in the Momentum, R-Design and Inscription trims. The
Momentum MSRP is $60,700, the R-Design MSRP is $65,200, and the Inscription
trim’s MSRP is $66,800. The T6 variant offers four option packages to
complement the all-new XC90: Momentum Plus ($2,600), Climate ($1,350),
Vision ($1,800) and Convenience ($2,200). Stand-alone options include
Metallic Paint, Bowers & Wil... 阅读全帖 |
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G*****h
发帖数: 33134 | 30 加拿大的价格。米国的看来便宜1w2
那么 T8 就只要 6w 冒头了，比预期的 6w5 还要低一点。
等 T8。。？
http://paddocktalk.com/news/html/story-264281.html
The T6 AWD is offered in the Momentum, R-Design and Inscription trims. The
Momentum MSRP is $60,700, the R-Design MSRP is $65,200, and the Inscription
trim’s MSRP is $66,800. The T6 variant offers four option packages to
complement the all-new XC90: Momentum Plus ($2,600), Climate ($1,350),
Vision ($1,800) and Convenience ($2,200). Stand-alone options include
Metallic Paint, Bowers & Wil... 阅读全帖 |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 31 家里一辆车：选择PHEV（C-max, volt,etc)
家里两个人，两辆车：上班稍远那位开Leaf/i3，近的那位开PHEV（Cmax,XC90等等），
实在不想买PHEV就开普通汽油车。
纯电车现在不管range有多少，都不可能作为绝大多数只有一辆车家庭的选择。 |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 32
除了model x能在200迈左右(目前tesla还在优化)之外，所有的phev中只有outlander
phev的AER最大，大概22－25 EPA miles (NEDC 32mi)，目前版本的电池是12kWh，但16
年4月出来的美国版会有一个middle model year refreshment，大家都希望电池容量会
增加(因为增加到16kWh可以最大利用incentive)。
其他的phev基本上都是20-25 NEDC miles，大改只相当于15-20 EPA miles，电池大多
都在9kWh左右。 |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 33 Nissan Leaf到年底累计销量有望破10万,今年的销量预计跟03年的Prius相当.如果1-2
年后能成功换代,到2018年很容易就能象5年前的Prius那样实现4-50万的销量.
其他公司的纯电车虽然不是很成功,但是有PHEV作为替代.EV/PHEV/HEV之间的竞争会一
直持续下去.10月份福特/通用/丰田的PHEV美国销量都超过2000辆,增势迅猛. |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 34 纯电动车出远门就悲剧了，要上班发现忘了充电也悲剧了。
PHEV虽然出远门不怕，但是想充电的话，充一次只能跑10多mile(将要上市的首代prius
PHEV是这么设计的)，会不会太麻烦？充电一次可以跑2-300mile的PHEV估计不会有人
造。 |
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o****3
发帖数: 33 | 35 http://blog.sina.com.cn/sensor2000?retcode=0
最近看见大伙对电池发热. 出来说几句.
我做过金属氢化物的军用燃料电池. 最近也参与评估A123 等的电池.
1, CELL MANUFACTURER
A123
ABAT
ALTAIRNANO
ELECTROVAYA
JOHNSON CONTROL/SAFT
KOKAM
2, BMS MANUFACTURER
ENERGY CS
REAP SYSTEMS
建行的报告说PHEV 是最有前途的,
截止到2009年底, A123 在路上的PHEV 是最多的, 800 辆左右.
我跟电池生产厂家接触不多, 就是看看他们的MONTHLY UPDATE, quarterly update, pv
&v results
电池的应用第一点就是安全性.
因为电池是不安全的部件.
燃料+O2= FLAME/爆炸
电池+O2= FLAME/爆炸
当然了, 公司里面不能用爆炸这个词, 一般是叫THERMAL EVENTS
什么是THERMAL EVENTS? 着火和爆炸.
A123 强调自己是POWER+LIFE+SAF |
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M**d
发帖数: 4418 | 36 所以我做功课。看专业媒体的评价啊。绝对绝对不要看车版的评价！这里有太多托。当
然，你也可以怀疑我是托。
再决定买van之前，我在volvo的CX90上犹豫了很久。
我现在就等volvo出PHEV了。PHEV+国产车＋开在美国路上＝莫名的快感 |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 37 油价不会便宜太多，但是2-30年内也贵不到哪里去，美国现在石油产量一直在增加，消
耗在降低。高速40mpg的普通compact size,35mpg的普通midsize，油钱对于普通美国老
百姓都不是大问题。当然50+mpg的prius更好。
电池技术也不太容易有大的突破。价格可能可以略降一点。不同的PHEV和Ev车有不同的
市场，主要是依据上班远近以及家庭状况。不过10年之后PHEV/Ev的普及程度估计也就
是现在HEV的状况，大约3%的新车市场占有率。HEV已经上市15年了。 |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 39
cadillac
Chevy Volt + Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV 2016
I have the first, and now waiting for the second to arrive late next year.
Outlander PHEV 2016 will gain a major restyling and likely a 7-seat option,
but the specs is not clear yet. |
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g*q
发帖数: 26623 | 40 你这里说的是one way distance,但是有多少人上班的地方不能充电呢?
而上班开得少的那些人,其他的"trip"有多少是一个接一个,中间不能充电的?
象我这样上班开得少的(不到5迈,这个图上看也有30%的人),一年上班也就开2000迈,
local买菜什么的1000迈,剩下的要么是需要大车拉大件,要么是需要到很远的地方去玩,
显然也不合适用volt这类PHEV.实际上40%的车一年都开不到7000迈,不能justify PHEV
的额外成本.
把两头的都去掉,中间的人还剩多少呢?
miles.
't |
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h**z
发帖数: 9751 | 41 对头，我说混动包括PHEV不如纯EV，那个开volt的托非得来教育我什么事PHEV，LOL |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 42
with the rocketing sales of Outlander PHEV, and the battery factory running
at the maximum capacity, it is hard to imagine Mitsu will go away soon.
I am not a fan of Mitsu at all, but so far, Outlander PHEV is the only AWD
plugin full-sized SUV on the market! even it comes to the states later than
the Model X, it is still the only option for me, because I don't have the
budget for a Model X.
read the recent EV news, it is written all over. |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 43
if you can wait, the 2016 Outlander PHEV will be here in late 2015 at an
estimated starting price 30k (premium trim) after incentives. the PHEV is
going to be a much better car, both in fuel efficiency and driving
experience, plus saving you at least $1000 a year in gas, and with an
awesome look. IMHO, it is really worth waiting for.
http://insideevs.com/2014-paris-motor-show-mitsubishi-outlander |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 44
rav4 ev is pretty much your only option at this point if you stick with BEV.
several plugin-hybrid suvs are coming next year, including volvo v60, xc90
t8, and outlander phev. I am pretty much set for outlander phev unless
something comes out earlier with better specs. plugin-hybrid audi q7, vw
crossblue may arrive in 2016-2017.
see a full list:
http://evobsession.com/electric-cars-2014-list/
on the other hand, I have been driving my Volt around with my son's stroller
in the back, not a big dea... 阅读全帖 |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 45
to be honest, I initially thought about buying a PHEV in 2011 when I first
saw the news about the plugin prius. a year later, I found about volt, and
plugin prius was no longer on my list. the AER of 6/11 miles made merely
useful. my commute is 39 miles, a volt is almost perfect, except I wish it
has longer AER, like wished by most PHEV owners.
once you drive an electric mile, you don't want to drive a gas mile anymore! |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 46
to be honest, I initially thought about buying a PHEV in 2011 when I first
saw the news about the plugin prius. a year later, I found about volt, and
plugin prius was no longer on my list. the AER of 6/11 miles made merely
useful. my commute is 39 miles, a volt is almost perfect, except I wish it
has longer AER, like wished by most PHEV owners.
once you drive an electric mile, you don't want to drive a gas mile anymore! |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 47
I kind of exhausted all options for you. I am sure you will find something
suiting your needs (perhaps the last else block)
decision tree for using an EV as a primary car(){
if(you are ok with an PHEV){
buy a PHEV
DONE
}else if(you are ok with an BEV){
if(you have $$ to afford a Tesla) then{
buy a Tesla
DONE
}else{ // you are on a budget for a BEV
if(you have $ for rental cars){
buy a budget BEV for commute, rent a zipcar for road trips
... 阅读全帖 |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 48
in the continents where this car is sold (everywhere except US), the PHEV
costs exactly the same as a premium trim gas version after local incentives.
for the US version, people speculated $37k-$42k before incentives. which
means $30-35k after federal/state tax credits. the base outlander PHEV will
be a premium trim, so it has most things you need.
the big unknowns now are the battery size and seating. currently, the 12kWh
battery can run 35miles with European rating, which is about 25 miles EP... 阅读全帖 |
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F***Q
发帖数: 6599 | 50
if the price is right for the coming Outlander PHEV, Mitsu is going to have
a big success in the US market. it has already made a big hit in other
countries
http://www.autoblog.com/2014/07/30/mitsubishi-outlander-phev-sa
basically, the demand is much greater than what Mitsu can produce, limited
largely by the capacity of the battery factory. |
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