j****d
发帖数: 1958 | 1 你小子别不回答我的问题啊，
另外，美国这边的学霸玩的是cns，中国人还玩不了那个，不能作为标准吧吗，
中国这边玩的是自己人，一个电话可以让你在这个圈子身无分文只能出国倒是不难
下人 |
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p*****m
发帖数: 7030 | 2 要是只有署名文章才叫学霸那我就不说啥了。。在圈子里生存 最重要的是啥？到哪儿
都是分钱的人老大啊 同学。。 |
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j****d
发帖数: 1958 | 3 一个研究所所有文章的第一通讯作者都是所长，这种事我看是中国特色的学霸了吧？ |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 4
比如说fig5b这个图， 下面的明显是俩个‘笑脸’怎么可能在一块胶上跑出来？ 如果
不同胶， 有啥比较的意义？ 我更好奇怎么两组的条带形状也完全一样， 看上去想是
改变了曝光时间而已， 换我做reviewer 我要他的film来看看：） 也可能是我WB做多
了有洁癖了。。 |
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O******e
发帖数: 4845 | 5 不是你洁癖，而是他们这张图确实有问题。太明显了。 |
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G******O
发帖数: 189 | 6 Do they really think that they could fool everybody?
I can not believe my eye when I saw the bands carefully.
For me to tell the truth I am not able to make such similar shape bands in
two gels though I have ten year experiments for Western blot. |
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h****u
发帖数: 480 | 7
in
Apparently, 国内免疫最牛lab could make such.
Where are the 打假英雄 when we need one? |
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l********u
发帖数: 82 | 8 这里的牛人随便拿个来都可以比比了。
http://www.idi.harvard.edu/
Frederick Alt, Ph.D.
Klaus Rajewsky, M.D.
Rao Anjana, Ph.D
Judy Lieberman, M.D., Ph.D.
... |
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p****l
发帖数: 291 | 9 最后一个不熟悉，前三个很熟悉
曹和他们比什么？学术？差的不是一点半点
前两个的徒子徒孙比曹牛的就很多 |
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z****i
发帖数: 35 | 10 是不是说，国内学术就是在比谁的胆子更大，比谁更黑更敢于“攫取”？那些稍微有点
底线的，都混不出头？唉，期待“神一样的存在”们赶快在国内出现，让这些学霸们看
看，自己究竟是个什么货... |
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b****n
发帖数: 311 | 11 我疯了。大家快去看看这篇Nature Immunology吧，神作啊！
Integrin CD11b negatively regulates TLR-triggered inflammatory responses
by activating Syk and promoting degradation of MyD88 and TRIF via Cbl-b.
Han C, Jin J, Xu S, Liu H, Li N, Cao X.
Nat Immunol. 2010 Aug;11(8):734-42.
除了上面贴出来的Fig5b,还有好多figure非常像同一个sample的不同曝光时间啊，就文
章里那些歪七扭八的western，要能跑出那么多极像的带型，那就真见鬼了。
我怀疑是同个sample的：
Fig6a MyD88和TRIF左右的带型一致。
Fig7d p-IRF3左右的带型一致,7b的p-IkBalpha也很像。
FIg8e p-IKKalpha-IKKbeta左右的带型一致. |
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O******e
发帖数: 4845 | 18 钱也不缺，人也不缺的，做这种小儿科就太掉价了。
希望这不是国内的普遍现象。 |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 19 其实怎么剪切都无所谓，空白当ig对照剪出来的也能接受， paper就是个show嘛， 便
于读者看就可以了， 关键是reviewer有责任核实数据的真实性－－ 我记得JBC会要求
看整个film。 editor主要责任是看paper的重要性。 现在审文章越来越靠关系， 不好
。 |
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w******y
发帖数: 8040 | 20 ft, reviewer有什么责任核实真实性？ |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 21
看不出来的没办法， 看得出来的reviewer就有责任， 要不找他们干啥？ 象这样的图
他们起码要全图来看看吧 |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 22
有时候同时跑胶同时transfer的两块胶会比较类似。 这文章里3/4以上的数据都是这样
剪切拼凑出来的WB， 如果reviewer没看过全图就接收了， 或者是他不懂或者是他懒或
者是他有利益， 总之都是有责任。 |
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G******O
发帖数: 189 | 23 Is it a chance event?
Look at this figure from another Nature Immunology from his lab in 2008. The
actin bands in fig6b is so similar to the last two bands of Fig6a if rotate
it 180 degrees.
The authors are different from that in the above NI paper except of the
corresponding author.
http://www.nature.com/ni/journal/v9/n5/fig_tab/ni.1604_F6.html |
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r***e
发帖数: 2539 | 24 你这个不好说，
但是前面提到的那个几乎肯定是同一张膜不同曝光。
唉，看这些文章很让人郁闷。
The
rotate |
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n********k
发帖数: 2818 | 26 holy cow!!!!
The
rotate |
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b****n
发帖数: 311 | 27 偶也看出来了，您真是慧眼如炬啊！
The
rotate |
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n********k
发帖数: 2818 | 29 poor organization/presentation, but this one is fine if my quick view is
accurate...It is experiments with a same
set of input dna
PCR |
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n********k
发帖数: 2818 | 30 btw, nice job and pls keep diging:)))
PCR |
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h****u
发帖数: 480 | 31
I am not sure that you can fault reviewer(s) for this. If I have to
guess, it's probably editor(s) fault.
I don't know much about this guy. Based on his power and money in China
from what others said here, I can imagine that he is capable of buying the
editors, or holding some naked pictures of editors :) He has organized
immunology meetings in China and could have invited all NI editors attend.
Things are sometimes done that way in China and most parts of the world
including U.S. |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 32
发editor看文章是不是重要，新颖决定是不是送出去审， 审后根据reviewer的评论决
定是不是发， 肯定不会看细节。 文章写作，实验的改进都是reviewer提出来的。 现
在投文章可以推荐一个reviewer吧， 这个推荐的如果是大牛基本都可以被认可， 如果
是有关系的， 基本都是positive的。。。 |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 33
这就是所谓的发paper占利益大头， 退paper推得一干二净 |
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b****n
发帖数: 311 | 34 俺没有帮曹辩护的意思，如果最后确认有问题，journal要处理，他当然得付出巨大的
代价，不管他是
知情不知情。
俺的意思是不用过度揣测，像可能捏了editor把柄之类的，学生做data走了不该走的捷
径可能性更
大。退一步说，如果曹参与了捏造data（data有没有manipulation现在还没有最终确认
哈），我不
觉得他会低级到让学生把同一个western并排放一起的地步。真要造假做到没有马脚太
容易了。 |
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h****u
发帖数: 480 | 35
把柄 was meant to be a joke :) but bribing could be very legit.
BTW, those professional editors are very powerful, more than the actual
reviewers. They decide what reviewers to pick or not pick at the first
place, then they could totally ignore some feedbacks from a particular
reviewer. |
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G******O
发帖数: 189 | 36 I really doubt that Cao has not major responsebility for this kind of
manipulating data.
I just randomly picked up some of his papers with different co-authors and
found more astonishing data...
For example, look at this one...
I highly suspect that the last row of Actin bands in Fig6A have been
manipulated. The 2nd, 3rd and 6th bans are identical! The 4th and 7th are
identical!!
I don't believe all the data in this panel at all.
http://www.jbc.org/content/284/37/24773/F6.expansion.html |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 37
没啥问题吧 这样的bands用肉眼很难判断的 除非软件判断identical 而且没必要
photoshop这个的 |
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G******O
发帖数: 189 | 38 OK.
I adjusted the background of the blot a little bit by using Photoshop.Can
you see it?
Is a software really needed to make such a judgement? |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 40 还是要软件的吧
我不知道传说中editor用的软件是啥 难道也是photoshop？ |
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b********i
发帖数: 73 | 41 There is no doubt that Cao is one of a few best immunologists in China.
About his papers, should not we judge them in more professional ways, instead of checking those
immunoblots as a bunch of artists? The bottom line is that so far there is no public disagreements of his data.
It is not easy for most of hot stars. I do not think it is fair to totally destroy one person's reputation just by one
Actin blot. |
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W****C
发帖数: 1937 | 42
instead of checking those
is no public disagreements of his data.
totally destroy one person's reputation just by one
呵呵 你真坏啊 来挑事的吧
我们拿国内大牛调笑一下而已 谁要totally destroy他了？ |
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z****i
发帖数: 35 | 43 What it more professional ways? Please tell us.
instead of checking those
is no public disagreements of his data.
totally destroy one person's reputation just by one |
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G******O
发帖数: 189 | 44 You are right.
We should judge such one of a few best immunologists in a more professional
way. But this is based on our intergrity that we should present real
experiments. It is not solely an actin blot. It is the faith that all of the
scientists rely on. Futhermore, besides this blot there are at least three
papers from his lab showing manipulated data as you can read in this BBS.
I agree with you that it is not easy for most of hot stars. But such a
successful star with so much money and reso... 阅读全帖 |
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b****n
发帖数: 311 | 45 俺删了俺的帖子，俺无意搞曹，也不想花力气去求证他的data到底是否有问题。但如果
曹偶尔能知道这
里的讨论的话，希望他能引以为戒了，那么多相似band确实不应该。
instead of checking those
is no public disagreements of his data.
totally destroy one person's reputation just by one |
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m*******o
发帖数: 38 | 47 强力顶！
professional
that all of the
of |
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f***4
发帖数: 886 | 48 靠，这帖子整的。
协和这个倒霉啊。我说你们这些心里要打假的，快点行动。别等曹院长到任了，又赖到
协和头上。呵呵 |
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G******O
发帖数: 189 | 50 What does 每一种蛋白跑胶的时候，图形应该都是一致的 mean? |
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