g*********d
发帖数: 233 | 1 交大招的法国Nobel奖原来是去搞伪科学的
http://www.btsmth.com/show_snapshot.php?en_name=TsinghuaCent&gid=456861
Science诺奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼访谈
French Nobelist Escapes "Intellectual Terror" to Pursue Radical Ideas in
China
Martin Enserink
PARIS—Virologist and Nobel laureate Luc Montagnier announced earlier
this month that, at age 78, he will take on the leadership of a new
research institute at Jiaotong University in Shanghai. What has shocked
many scientists, however, isn't Montagnier's departure from France but
what he plans to study in China: electromagnetic waves that Montagnier
says emanate from the highly diluted DNA of various pathogens.
Montagnier, who won a 2008 Nobel Prize for his discovery of HIV, claims
that those signals—which he described in two little-noticed papers in
2009—can reveal the bacterial or viral origins of many conditions,
including autism and Alzheimer's disease. The work could
But Montagnier's new direction evokes one of the most notorious affairs
in French science: the “water memory” study by immunologist Jacques
Benveniste. Benveniste, who died in 2004, claimed in a 1988 Nature paper
that IgE antibodies have an effect on a certain cell type even after
being diluted by a factor of 10120. His claim was interpreted by many as
evidence for homeopathy, which uses extreme dilutions that most
scientists say can't possibly have a biological effect. After a weeklong
investigation at Benveniste's lab, Nature called the paper a “delusion.”
Science talked to Montagnier, who is founder and president of the World
Foundation for AIDS Research and Prevention, last week. Questions and
answers have been edited for brevity and clarity.
Q:Why are you going to Shanghai?
L.M.:I have been offered a professorship and a new institute, which will
bear my name, to work on a new scientific movement at the crossroads of
physics, biology, and medicine. The main topic will be this phenomenon
of electromagnetic waves produced by DNA in water. We will study both
the theoretical basis and the possible applications in medicine.
Q:What exactly are these waves?
L.M.:What we have found is that DNA produces structural changes in
water, which persist at very high dilutions, and which lead to resonant
electromagnetic signals that we can measure. Not all DNA produces
signals that we can detect with our device. The high-intensity signals
come from bacterial and viral DNA.
Q:What do you think are the potential medical applications?
L.M.:I have found these signals coming from bacterial DNA in the plasma
of many patients with autism, and also in most, if not all, patients
with Alzheimer, Parkinson's disease, and multiple sclerosis. It seems
that the bacteria we are detecting are coming from the gut. So it is
quite possible that products from gut bacteria end up in the plasma and
cause damage to the brain.
The waves give us a biomarker to test for the presence of these
bacteria, even when we can't detect them with classical techniques like
PCR. So when we treat these diseases with antibiotics, our hope is to
see the pathogen disappearing. One idea is to set up a clinical trial in
autism here in France. We will first show that we can detect bacterial
DNA in the plasma of autistic children and not in a healthy control
group. Then, if we get agreement from an ethical committee, autistic
children can be treated with antibiotics to see whether the DNA signal
disappears and their clinical condition improves. In the future, we may
use these findings not just for diagnostics but also for treatment. It's
possible that electromagnetic waves at some frequency will kill the
waves produced by bacterial DNA.
Q:Many of your colleagues seem to be extremely skeptical.
L.M.:Well, I was skeptical myself in the beginning. But these are facts.
The findings are very reproducible and we are waiting for confirmation
by other labs.
Q:You have called Benveniste a modern Galileo. Why?
L.M.:Benveniste was rejected by everybody, because he was too far ahead.
He lost everything, his lab, his money. … I think he was mostly right,
but the problem was that his results weren't 100% reproducible.
Q:Do you think there's something to homeopathy as well?
L.M.:I can't say that homeopathy is right in everything. What I can say
now is that the high dilutions are right. High dilutions of something
are not nothing. They are water structures which mimic the original
molecules. We find that with DNA, we cannot work at the extremely high
dilutions used in homeopathy; we cannot go further than a 10−18
dilution, or we lose the signal. But even at 10−18, you can calculate
that there is not a single molecule of DNA left. And yet we detect a
signal.
Q:Can't you pursue this research in France?
L.M.:I don't have much funding here. Because of French retirement laws,
I'm no longer allowed to work at a public institute. I have applied for
funding from other sources, but I have been turned down. There is a kind
of fear around this topic in Europe. I am told that some people have
reproduced Benveniste's results, but they are afraid to publish it
because of the intellectual terror from people who don't understand it.
Q:Are the Chinese more open to it?
L.M.:I think so. I have visited Jiaotong University several times, and
they are quite open-minded. The editor-in-chief of [Interdisciplinary
Sciences: Computational Life Sciences,] the journal in which I have
published two papers on this topic, is based there as well.
Q:Aren't you worried that your colleagues will think you have drifted
into pseudoscience?
L.M.:No, because it's not pseudoscience. It's not quackery. These are
real phenomena which deserve further study.
http://sciencenet.cn/blog/user_content.aspx?id=397094
诺奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼谈为何选择上海交大
称因无经费而离开法国；认为上海交大思想开放
12月24日出版的《科学》杂志刊登报道，就2008年诺贝尔生理学或医学奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼（Luc
Montagnier）将前往上海交通大学任教一事对其进行了专访。以下为文章概要：
78岁高龄的诺奖得主、病毒学家吕克·蒙塔尼本月早些时候宣布，他将前往上海交通大学任教。此宣
布一出，震惊了学术界。《科学》就此对吕克·蒙塔尼进行了采访。
《科学》：您为何要去上海？
蒙塔尼：（上海交大）聘我为全职教授，并将建立一所以我的名字命名的研究所，主要研究DNA在水
中产生电磁波的现象。我们将尝试能否将其从理论转变为医学应用。
《科学》：您为何不在法国从事这项研究呢？
蒙塔尼：因为法国的退休法不允许我继续在公共研究所从事研究工作了，我得不到经费，我也尝试了
其他渠道，同样没什么用。这种现象在整个欧洲是普遍的，人们向来对这种事比较担忧。
《科学》：您觉得中国是不是在这方面更开放些？
蒙塔尼：是，我是这么认为的。我访问过上交大好几次了，他们的思想很开放。
《科学》：您不担心同事们会认为您成伪科学了吗？
蒙塔尼：不担心，因为它不是伪科学，不是骗人的。现象真实存在，值得深入研究。
=======================
更多阅读
《科学》杂志报道原文（英文）
诺奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼新临床试验引争议
诺奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼全职任教上海交大
=====================
诺奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼新临床试验引争议
涉及孤独症治疗；被指试验方法非主流
据《自然》网站报道，上海交通大学讲席教授、2008年诺贝尔生理学或医学奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼
（Luc Montagnier）将于近日开展的一项有关孤独症治疗的临床试验，招来了其他科学家的批评
和担心。
这项由美国孤独症研究协会（ARI）资助的小型临床试验将使用抗生素来持续治疗患有孤独症的儿
童。有科学家担忧，蒙塔尼可能会利用其诺奖得主身份，让人觉得这项采用非传统方式治疗孤独症的
试验是可靠的，但这种可靠性无法保证。
美国密歇根大学的Catherine Lord认为这些类似的试验属于“非主流科学”，许多通过药物来治疗
孤独症的另类方法在她看来也是“半医学、没有证据支持的科学，更像是伪科学”。
而ARI主管Stephen Edelson认为目前孤独症有很多表现形式，并且仍有太多未知因素，以至
于“我们应该全方位地对其进行研究”。他对这项“前沿、有突破性”的研究感到“非常兴奋”。
蒙塔尼本人承认目前确实没有可靠的证据证明传染病与孤独症存在联系，但他辩称持续治疗目前已取
得“惊人”的进步。虽然很多主流科学家质疑他的工作，不过他表示仍会坚持自己的想法。（科学网
张笑/编译）
===================================
诺奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼全职任教上海交大
资料图片：瑞典卡罗林斯卡医学院10月6日宣布，将2008年诺贝尔生理学或医学奖授予德国科学家哈
拉尔德·楚尔·豪森(右)及两名法国科学家弗朗索瓦丝·巴尔-西诺西(左)和吕克·蒙塔尼(中)。这是
三名诺贝尔奖得主的拼版照片。新华社/法新
11月18日，艾滋病毒的发现者、2008年诺贝尔生理与医学奖获得者Luc Montagnier（吕克·蒙塔
尼）教授被聘为上海交通大学讲席教授。此前，国内高校鲜有聘请诺奖获得者作全职教授的先例。
据悉，联合国教科文组织世界艾滋病研究与防治基金会主席蒙塔尼教授将带领自己的研究团队落户上
海交大。他希望尽快成立蒙塔尼生物医学研究所，还将负责组建学术委员会并引进国际一流人才，几
年内研究所将达到二三十人的规模。
上海交大则承诺将为蒙塔尼教授及其团队在交大的科研和发展提供支持。根据协议，上海交大将成立
蒙塔尼研究所，作为蒙塔尼教授主要的学术工作场所。 | p*******r
发帖数: 4048 | 2 我觉得投资这么多搞这个有点过。给他一个实验室自己搞搞还无所谓。
不过这也就很好理解他为什么要去上海了。
【在 g*********d 的大作中提到】
: 交大招的法国Nobel奖原来是去搞伪科学的
: http://www.btsmth.com/show_snapshot.php?en_name=TsinghuaCent&gid=456861
: Science诺奖得主吕克·蒙塔尼访谈
: French Nobelist Escapes "Intellectual Terror" to Pursue Radical Ideas in
: China
: Martin Enserink
: PARIS—Virologist and Nobel laureate Luc Montagnier announced earlier
: this month that, at age 78, he will take on the leadership of a new
: research institute at Jiaotong University in Shanghai. What has shocked
: many scientists, however, isn't Montagnier's departure from France but
| g*********d
发帖数: 233 | 3 人傻钱多，速去
【在 p*******r 的大作中提到】
: 我觉得投资这么多搞这个有点过。给他一个实验室自己搞搞还无所谓。
: 不过这也就很好理解他为什么要去上海了。
| h********0
发帖数: 12056 | |
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