m*********e
发帖数: 31 | 1 PP on Oct. 24, RFE on 14th day.
claim了authorship, judge和contribution,下面是基本情况：
6 journal paper,13 conference paper,all English, 4 first author,3 of them
are published on top journals in the field(IF>7). Citations>120(Now>130),
nonself citation>120(Now>130),most citations are from first author paper,one
first author paper published in 2008 has citation>80(现在>90).
17 reviews for 9 journals, including one for PRL.（Now 20 reviews for 10
journals）
6 letters, 4 independent, one from member of American Academic of Science.
RFE on contribution and totality.
"the record does not demonstrate evidence as to the implementing or
commercialization of the beneficiary's discoveries on a widespread scale,
extensive citation,or other indicators of major contribution to the field.
"it appears that the authors of the letters of support and the beneficiary's
co-authors have published works and publication records that are
significantly more extensive than that of the benificiary, which would
appear to be more indicative of major contributions to the field than the
beneficiary's publication record".
律师让交老板的support letter，然后再找independent support letter。 不过能找
到的都用了，现在找的给写的都不是牛人了，还有跟推荐人比较这事怎么搞啊？律师没
提这个，只说这个nonsense，求帮助RFE。 |
c******g
发帖数: 9273 | 2 恭喜恭喜
one
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: PP on Oct. 24, RFE on 14th day.
: claim了authorship, judge和contribution,下面是基本情况：
: 6 journal paper,13 conference paper,all English, 4 first author,3 of them
: are published on top journals in the field(IF>7). Citations>120(Now>130),
: nonself citation>120(Now>130),most citations are from first author paper,one
: first author paper published in 2008 has citation>80(现在>90).
: 17 reviews for 9 journals, including one for PRL.（Now 20 reviews for 10
: journals）
: 6 letters, 4 independent, one from member of American Academic of Science.
: RFE on contribution and totality.
|
F***a
发帖数: 1893 | 3 这也恭喜？
【在 c******g 的大作中提到】
: 恭喜恭喜
:
: one
|
k******e
发帖数: 8870 | 4 it does not matter whether the referees are niu or not. what does matter is
whether they are willing to sign you a niu letter. |
e******r
发帖数: 9977 | 5 说的好~
is
【在 k******e 的大作中提到】
: it does not matter whether the referees are niu or not. what does matter is
: whether they are willing to sign you a niu letter.
|
c******g
发帖数: 9273 | 6 sorry，没看仔细。以为批了
bless
【在 F***a 的大作中提到】
: 这也恭喜？
|
p*******l
发帖数: 2495 | |
p********r
发帖数: 960 | |
|
a***n
发帖数: 3951 | |
x*****a
发帖数: 972 | 10 上面有个哥们说的不对，移民局常拿推荐人和申请人的成就来比较，然后拒掉你，下面
的引用出自2010年1月13号的上诉办公室（AAO）的判例（Jan132010_04B2203），第14
页。这种比较，在2010和2011年的判例中屡次出现。
While this evidence may distinguish him from other postdoctoral researchers
receiving advanced training in a university setting, we will not narrow his
field to others with his level of training and experience.
A comparison of the petitioner's positions and achievements with those of
his superiors at the University of Arizona and Indiana University indicates
that the very top of his field is a level above his present level of
achievement.
For example, AAA is a Professor of Optometry and Director of the Borish
Center for Ophthalmic Research at Indiana University, has authored well over
100 scientific publications, serves on the editorial board of Investigative
Ophthalmology and Vision Science, and is a Fellow of the Optical Society of
America. BBB is Professor of Optical Sciences and Director of the Optical
Data Storage Center at the University of Arizona, has authored more than 150
refereed papers in major scientific journals, has seven United States
patents, and is a fellow of both the SPIE and the OSA.
Thus, it appears that the highest level of the petitioner's field is well
above the level he has presently attained. |
|
|
m*********e
发帖数: 31 | |
T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 12 xzchina has explained it well that it means that 移民局拿推荐人和申请人的成就来比较，然后拒掉你. This time, not only your references, but also your co-authors are mentioned to be more significant than you.
"it appears that the authors of the letters of support and the beneficiary's co-authors have published works and publication records that are significantly more extensive than that of the beneficiary, which would appear to be more indicative of major contributions to the field than the beneficiary's publication record".
This is not a new trick, some IDs have reported such cases before.
The key comparison that the IO mentioned was the number of publications. It is a hard evidence, so perhaps there's nothing much you can do about this number.
But, you can try to get some letters to say that your level of publications is far exceeding other people, or the average of your major.
Meanwhile, try to find letters to prove the usefulness or impact of your work. It seems that the IO didn't find any evidence on this before, and this evidence can be provided this time by letters.
1. Find the people who have cited your work to say that they were inspired by your work in certain way, and they published in xxx.
2. If you have collaborated with some company or government agency before, you can find letters from there to say that your work has been adopted by them and they are making products, etc out of that.
3. If there used to be some inquiries on your work, even if they didn't cite your papers, you may collect those emails in the "Other" section to show your influence.
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: 这是啥意思？怎么解决啊？
|
n*******g
发帖数: 448 | |
f*********s
发帖数: 838 | |
x*****a
发帖数: 972 | 15 EB1A是要证明你有extraordinary ability，它的定义出自8 C.F.R section 204.5(h)(
2)
Extraordinary ability means a level of expertise indicating that the
individual is one of that small percentage who have risen to the very top of
the field of endeavor.
所以你只要证明你是最顶尖的那一小部分的一员就行了。哪个方法好用就用哪个。
Kazarian vs. USCIS的判例禁止USCIS对字面意思（the plain language）做延展或修
改，所以USCIS不能说你不到top 1%就不是。剩下的意思，你懂的～ |
x*****a
发帖数: 972 | 16 AAO的decision是所有移民官必须遵守的，而且AAO的判决在行政体系中是最终判决。如
果要推翻AAO的判决，需要由司法体系的单位决定。 |
v******e
发帖数: 1715 | 17 bless
one
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: PP on Oct. 24, RFE on 14th day.
: claim了authorship, judge和contribution,下面是基本情况：
: 6 journal paper,13 conference paper,all English, 4 first author,3 of them
: are published on top journals in the field(IF>7). Citations>120(Now>130),
: nonself citation>120(Now>130),most citations are from first author paper,one
: first author paper published in 2008 has citation>80(现在>90).
: 17 reviews for 9 journals, including one for PRL.（Now 20 reviews for 10
: journals）
: 6 letters, 4 independent, one from member of American Academic of Science.
: RFE on contribution and totality.
|
IJ
发帖数: 494 | |
m*********e
发帖数: 31 | 19 现在想找牛的也找不着了，找了几个AP和不发达国家的烂校professor了
还是没搞清楚跟推荐人比较那个怎么response啊，推荐人和合作者从任何方面都比自己
牛太多啊，不管数量，文章质量，引用，都没得比啊。 |
j*z
发帖数: 620 | 20 晕,真有这样的阿.以前只是听说有,居然真有这样的RFE...
劝你别再找牛推荐人了,IO现在质疑你水平不到推荐人甚至合作者,你如何证实你是
extraoridnary?
上面的truestory给了一些建议,个人觉得还是不错的.
sorry, 不能给你好的建议,还是等一些有过此经历的人来答吧.
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: 现在想找牛的也找不着了，找了几个AP和不发达国家的烂校professor了
: 还是没搞清楚跟推荐人比较那个怎么response啊，推荐人和合作者从任何方面都比自己
: 牛太多啊，不管数量，文章质量，引用，都没得比啊。
|
|
|
x*****a
发帖数: 972 | 21 AAO 2010和2011年的判例中，EB1A中，凡是申请人被拿出来和推荐人比的，最后都被拒
了，无一例外；凡是过了的，没有一个出现这个情况。
现在IO拿这个说事儿，这是非常大的警讯，说明他不认为你符合移民法的基本要件。本
身extraordinary ability就是很大主观性，现在他主观上已经不乐观了。
你的律师说这是nonsense，要么他不懂；要么他很懂，但是知道没法回答（你水平确实
比人家差）。
你得好好研究、想想办法。 |
m*********e
发帖数: 31 | 22 ，确实就比人家差啊，都是几百篇文章，几千上万次引用的。这个根本就是无解，难道
就这么挂了？懂的站出来指点指点啊 |
T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 23 You should have spent time on this board earlier.
In such cases, we try not to mention the references' credentials that can
make your own credentials look deficient, but only mention their reputation,
etc. That's what should be done in the original petition.
Now that you have got the RFE, just try your best to reply, as what we
suggested you to do earlier.
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: ，确实就比人家差啊，都是几百篇文章，几千上万次引用的。这个根本就是无解，难道
: 就这么挂了？懂的站出来指点指点啊
|
T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 24 p.s.
However I said earlier, I am no expert, and there's no guarantee of anything
. Also, it's up to you to decide what to do.
Big bless!
reputation,
【在 T*******y 的大作中提到】
: You should have spent time on this board earlier.
: In such cases, we try not to mention the references' credentials that can
: make your own credentials look deficient, but only mention their reputation,
: etc. That's what should be done in the original petition.
: Now that you have got the RFE, just try your best to reply, as what we
: suggested you to do earlier.
|
m********x
发帖数: 87 | 25 推荐信里要写你是young科学家。推荐人牛是因为他们老了，你年轻就很牛，老了不就
比他们还有牛了。 |
m*********e
发帖数: 31 | |
T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 27 "young"? That's one more word that I asked one of my references to remove
when he used it, although this might be my over-reacting or being too
paranoid.
Words such as "potential", "will be", "is outstanding within certain group,
but not the whole academic field" should all be avoided.
LASummer has very good advice on this:
http://www.mitbbs.com/mitbbs_article_t.php?board=Immigration&gi
Although his case was on EB1B, there're many things you can take a look.
【在 m********x 的大作中提到】
: 推荐信里要写你是young科学家。推荐人牛是因为他们老了，你年轻就很牛，老了不就
: 比他们还有牛了。
|
T*******y
发帖数: 6523 | 28 This is generally okay, but in LZ's case, his references have much more
publications, but not that LZ has the same amount of publications as his
references.
【在 m********x 的大作中提到】
: 推荐信里要写你是young科学家。推荐人牛是因为他们老了，你年轻就很牛，老了不就
: 比他们还有牛了。
|
A**********n
发帖数: 824 | 29 Say some different opinions and discussions:
(1) My lawyer had me throw one reference letter because this letter "
repeatedly comparing you with new scientists".
(2) "Old" or "young" has nothing to do with "one of that small percentage
who have risen to the very top of the field of endeavor."
(3) If this logic stands, that 五道杠 boy absolutely should be issued EB1A.
就比他们还有牛了。
【在 m********x 的大作中提到】
: 推荐信里要写你是young科学家。推荐人牛是因为他们老了，你年轻就很牛，老了不就
: 比他们还有牛了。
|
m*********e
发帖数: 31 | 30 这么多争论，很迷茫啊，有没有权威跳出来说几句啊 |
|
|
l**n
发帖数: 908 | 31 Bless
这个RFE确实比较难回答
不过，我觉得，你首先可以用年平均来讲事情。毕竟年头不一样，积累自然不一样。
第二，别人top0.01%，并不代表你不是top1%；相反，你得到了那么牛的人independent
地肯定，应该是positive的。
第三，即使很在某一方向内，做具体分支的人发文的数目在相同时间内可以非常不一样
，在物理领域，做样品的就比完全做测量的人文章要多很多，引用也要多很多。讲清楚
你自己的方向，同时拿一个跟你方向很近的教授做比较。
这个第三里面关于专业方向分支间的比较，建议找一个独立推荐人讲出，不要直接由你写进reply去。
good luck
one
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: PP on Oct. 24, RFE on 14th day.
: claim了authorship, judge和contribution,下面是基本情况：
: 6 journal paper,13 conference paper,all English, 4 first author,3 of them
: are published on top journals in the field(IF>7). Citations>120(Now>130),
: nonself citation>120(Now>130),most citations are from first author paper,one
: first author paper published in 2008 has citation>80(现在>90).
: 17 reviews for 9 journals, including one for PRL.（Now 20 reviews for 10
: journals）
: 6 letters, 4 independent, one from member of American Academic of Science.
: RFE on contribution and totality.
|
l**n
发帖数: 908 | 32 另外，extraordinary ability并不是仅仅比较积累的文章数和引用数。你可以证明你
当前是这个方向的牛人。比如说，你跟那些well established的教授们在近期内同方向
的文章的引用上可以比较，然后说你这个方向上的贡献大，是这个方向的领头人。
另外，比较average，也就是很多人提到的那个2007统计表——不过我对这张表的解读
存疑。
independent
你写进reply去。
【在 l**n 的大作中提到】
: Bless
: 这个RFE确实比较难回答
: 不过，我觉得，你首先可以用年平均来讲事情。毕竟年头不一样，积累自然不一样。
: 第二，别人top0.01%，并不代表你不是top1%；相反，你得到了那么牛的人independent
: 地肯定，应该是positive的。
: 第三，即使很在某一方向内，做具体分支的人发文的数目在相同时间内可以非常不一样
: ，在物理领域，做样品的就比完全做测量的人文章要多很多，引用也要多很多。讲清楚
: 你自己的方向，同时拿一个跟你方向很近的教授做比较。
: 这个第三里面关于专业方向分支间的比较，建议找一个独立推荐人讲出，不要直接由你写进reply去。
: good luck
|
m*********e
发帖数: 31 | 33 多谢Ican的指点，非常有帮助，一开始都被xzchina说得有点绝望了，最后弱弱的问一
句：“2007统计表”是啥？ |
l**n
发帖数: 908 | 34 http://chronicle.com/stats/productivity/
你的case跟我自己的背景很象：也是物理，没有N/S和N子刊，PRL级别的一作也有4篇，
现在在准备中。所以看到这个RFE，我也搞得很紧张，呵呵。
对了，你的conference paper是IEEE的proceeding那种么？不是APS abstract那样的吧？
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: 多谢Ican的指点，非常有帮助，一开始都被xzchina说得有点绝望了，最后弱弱的问一
: 句：“2007统计表”是啥？
|
m***n
发帖数: 1685 | |
m*********e
发帖数: 31 | 36 都是IEEE proceeding，或者比较长的，3－4页那种，申的时候都混在一起了，有的当
journal paper算了，不过support letter里只吹了第一作者的几篇文章。应该还挺认
PRL的，毕竟我文章数量很少，authorship也过了。
RFE里有这样的话 “...... ,has been published in highly ranked journals,
cited approximately 100 times etc. While the benificiary's research received
some recognition, and is no doubt of value,given that a fundamental role of
research is the development of new methods, it does not follow that every
researcher who performs original research has inherently made a contribution
of major significance to the field as a whole.Research inherently must be
shown to be original and present some benefit if it is to receive funding
and attention from the scientific community.
BTW，后面的同志不要再GX我了。 |
y******r
发帖数: 634 | 37 那些牛人组里的人应该也很多吧，应该是老牛不是新牛吧，你把他的paper总数除一下
人数，年份，会不会比他的平均值高呢？
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: ，确实就比人家差啊，都是几百篇文章，几千上万次引用的。这个根本就是无解，难道
: 就这么挂了？懂的站出来指点指点啊
|
L*******e
发帖数: 2540 | 38 我知道这种情况下过了的。因为某推荐信吹大了，自己写了top xx。后来又出具了一个
解释，就是说申请人在同年龄层比较，因为推荐人明显年纪大很多，有那么多年的优势
。后来，过了。去年夏天的事情。bless...........
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: ，确实就比人家差啊，都是几百篇文章，几千上万次引用的。这个根本就是无解，难道
: 就这么挂了？懂的站出来指点指点啊
|
m*********e
发帖数: 31 | 39 我打算把自己的方向缩小，然后把牛人在这个小方向的文章统计出来，然后比我多个几
倍引用而已，还有几个牛人比我少的，大家觉得这么做靠谱不？ |
f*****e
发帖数: 1889 | 40 很多牛人后来都不发一作的文章了. 可以看一下自己的一作文章比牛人同期文章多不多
些. |
|
|
h*******s
发帖数: 560 | 41 有一点觉得可以争一下，拿你一个人跟人家20，30人的大组比，根本就不在一个平台。
大点的组，一般都15,20个博后，这样的组，老板一年挂名10几篇文章还算事？算平均
数，肯定没你多。 |
l**n
发帖数: 908 | 42 恭喜啊！
要点包子行不？呵呵
one
【在 m*********e 的大作中提到】
: PP on Oct. 24, RFE on 14th day.
: claim了authorship, judge和contribution,下面是基本情况：
: 6 journal paper,13 conference paper,all English, 4 first author,3 of them
: are published on top journals in the field(IF>7). Citations>120(Now>130),
: nonself citation>120(Now>130),most citations are from first author paper,one
: first author paper published in 2008 has citation>80(现在>90).
: 17 reviews for 9 journals, including one for PRL.（Now 20 reviews for 10
: journals）
: 6 letters, 4 independent, one from member of American Academic of Science.
: RFE on contribution and totality.
|
q*******n
发帖数: 81 | 43 试试把这些牛人以前在和你做research的年数差不多的时候发的文章统计出来，比较一
下。我觉得拿一个做了几十年research的人发的文章做的贡献和一个做了几年research
的人来比较，很不合理。 |
l**n
发帖数: 908 | 44 呵呵，这个是老黄历
楼主RFE reply后已经过了
research
【在 q*******n 的大作中提到】
: 试试把这些牛人以前在和你做research的年数差不多的时候发的文章统计出来，比较一
: 下。我觉得拿一个做了几十年research的人发的文章做的贡献和一个做了几年research
: 的人来比较，很不合理。
|
q*******n
发帖数: 81 | 45 哦， 没注意，呵呵：）
【在 l**n 的大作中提到】
: 呵呵，这个是老黄历
: 楼主RFE reply后已经过了
:
: research
|
D******D
发帖数: 1159 | 46 bless，运气现在最重要，你滴情况批不批都不算太过分，另外物理研究滴意义IO不太
容易弄明白，所以大多会通过文章数和引用数来判断，你可以去JCI里面挖掘一下你滴
文章引用数在同类文章比较靠前滴排名，把每一个闪光点都找到。
文章少不要紧，重要滴是文章有意义，引用少不要紧，只要比同行高就成。
既然这个IO喜欢把你跟同行比，你挑弱一点的来比不就得了（JCR里面有关键词文章引
用排名滴）。
偶听说过一个偷渡被抓滴兄弟，在拘留期间以剪纸特长为理由申请eb1a通过。所以一切
皆有可能^_^ |
