y*******2
发帖数: 746 | 1 想买个whole life insurance，一是保意外，孩子还小，太太不工作，万一我挂了家人
有保障。二是等我自然老死以后给孩子留笔钱，他们不用交税。
说说我的情况。有俩个小孩，都还小。太太不工作。我的收入还可以，每年各种收入加
起来税后大概20万美元左右。全家各种花销每年大概7万美元左右。所以每年有些闲钱
可以来投资或者买保险。我不是太善于投资，做股票经常是赚几笔然后一笔就全亏回去
。所以现在对玩股票投资赚钱不报幻想了。想找些保守的投资渠道。
最近研究了下whole life （不是IUL，是那种traditional whole life），觉得有俩家
还可以，一个是new york life,另外一个是northwestern mutual.
买100万的policy，大概是每年交4万美金，连续交10年就不用交了。然后看起来cash
value就能保证稳定增长了。
请教大家这种whole life值得不值得买，还是应该寻求其他更好的投资渠道，多谢各位
有经验的前辈指点。多谢！ |
t******a
发帖数: 697 | 2 自己生前享受和死后给家人享受
这个要想明白
投资的话，买保险全是忽悠。
买保险，说什么利息稳定，他们没告诉你还有管理费，奇高拔高把利息都吃掉了。
我觉得唯一靠谱的是买点mutual fund或者 买房子
什么index500啥类型的，10年收益都还行
【在 y*******2 的大作中提到】
: 想买个whole life insurance，一是保意外，孩子还小，太太不工作，万一我挂了家人
: 有保障。二是等我自然老死以后给孩子留笔钱，他们不用交税。
: 说说我的情况。有俩个小孩，都还小。太太不工作。我的收入还可以，每年各种收入加
: 起来税后大概20万美元左右。全家各种花销每年大概7万美元左右。所以每年有些闲钱
: 可以来投资或者买保险。我不是太善于投资，做股票经常是赚几笔然后一笔就全亏回去
: 。所以现在对玩股票投资赚钱不报幻想了。想找些保守的投资渠道。
: 最近研究了下whole life （不是IUL，是那种traditional whole life），觉得有俩家
: 还可以，一个是new york life,另外一个是northwestern mutual.
: 买100万的policy，大概是每年交4万美金，连续交10年就不用交了。然后看起来cash
: value就能保证稳定增长了。
|
c*******n
发帖数: 53 | 3 你很为家人着想，我很感动。我平时很少回贴的，也特地登录给你回贴。
我去年考过保险执照，对保险有一定的认识，后来因为个人原因没有做这个。
你提到的两家公司都是美国最好的之一，虽然贵了点，但有保障。
我知道有很多经纪会用目前最乐观的利率增长给客人做计划，说“可能”10年后就能用
红利付保费。但事实上我认识有十几年前买你说的其中一家保险的顾客，到现在还是要
付。如果不付的后果就是从现金值贷款付保费，要付利息。现金值如果降到零，保险也
就没有了。十年以上的Whole Life没有了是很可惜的。
假如你的保险经纪说十年付清，我建议你问他“这是garuanteed的吗？”如果说是，请
他给你指出在保单上的那一句，没有的话就不要签保单，因为你可能买的是和你想象的
不一样的东西。
我知道有保证十年付清的产品，但那是有别于传统whole life了
如果是用来投资的话，我建议你将红利投回保险买更大的保额。如果你长命百岁，复利
之下，保险日后的增长是很可观的。
如果你觉得要每年4万，付100年太多了，你也可以少买whole life，不足的保额用20
year fix rate term life补充。这足够保障你的孩子到成年了。如果你想要更灵活的
选择，还可以在term life上加extended conversion rider。这样你以后还可以用目前
的健康评级买whole life。
对大多数人来说，他们应该先要明白自己想要的是保障还是投资，然后往那个方向做计
划。只是有的经纪为了尽快成交，并没有给客人解释清楚。
你对家人很好。祝好运。
★ 发自iPhone App: ChineseWeb 1.0.4
【在 y*******2 的大作中提到】
: 想买个whole life insurance，一是保意外，孩子还小，太太不工作，万一我挂了家人
: 有保障。二是等我自然老死以后给孩子留笔钱，他们不用交税。
: 说说我的情况。有俩个小孩，都还小。太太不工作。我的收入还可以，每年各种收入加
: 起来税后大概20万美元左右。全家各种花销每年大概7万美元左右。所以每年有些闲钱
: 可以来投资或者买保险。我不是太善于投资，做股票经常是赚几笔然后一笔就全亏回去
: 。所以现在对玩股票投资赚钱不报幻想了。想找些保守的投资渠道。
: 最近研究了下whole life （不是IUL，是那种traditional whole life），觉得有俩家
: 还可以，一个是new york life,另外一个是northwestern mutual.
: 买100万的policy，大概是每年交4万美金，连续交10年就不用交了。然后看起来cash
: value就能保证稳定增长了。
|
l*********u
发帖数: 19053 | 4 不值得买
【在 y*******2 的大作中提到】
: 想买个whole life insurance，一是保意外，孩子还小，太太不工作，万一我挂了家人
: 有保障。二是等我自然老死以后给孩子留笔钱，他们不用交税。
: 说说我的情况。有俩个小孩，都还小。太太不工作。我的收入还可以，每年各种收入加
: 起来税后大概20万美元左右。全家各种花销每年大概7万美元左右。所以每年有些闲钱
: 可以来投资或者买保险。我不是太善于投资，做股票经常是赚几笔然后一笔就全亏回去
: 。所以现在对玩股票投资赚钱不报幻想了。想找些保守的投资渠道。
: 最近研究了下whole life （不是IUL，是那种traditional whole life），觉得有俩家
: 还可以，一个是new york life,另外一个是northwestern mutual.
: 买100万的policy，大概是每年交4万美金，连续交10年就不用交了。然后看起来cash
: value就能保证稳定增长了。
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 5 What's the problem with IUL?
Why is whole life better? |
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 6 所有带储蓄的保险都是忽悠, period。买level term + index ETF 完爆任何whole
life. |
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 7 S&P IUL with 0-12.5%
5 Year Avg 13.00% 9.66%
10 Year Avg 5.40% 7.91%
15 Year Avg 2.30% 6.64%
20 Year Avg 7.80% 8.08%
Level Term + ETF probably beat whole life,
but it's still not as good as IUL. |
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 8 LOL，别扯淡了。本来就是逼着你先买个用不上的permanent life insurance，同样的
钱，剩下的cash部分远少于走level+index，而这部分是compounded的。再加上前几年
基本就给销售发工资了，随便狗一下都
知道咋回事。
我level+index每个月投资100，你只能投资50，不说你的return比我高本身就不靠谱，
就算是真的也是然并卵。
However, potential policyholders also have think about the notoriously high
expenses – including administrative fees and surrender charges –
associated with permanent life insurance. The commission paid to sales reps
is particularly steep, often swallowing up the entire first year of premiums
. From there, sales fees frequently continue at around 5% annually before
tapering off. As a result, the cash balance of your account may not start to
show any substantial growth for years.
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: S&P IUL with 0-12.5%
: 5 Year Avg 13.00% 9.66%
: 10 Year Avg 5.40% 7.91%
: 15 Year Avg 2.30% 6.64%
: 20 Year Avg 7.80% 8.08%
: Level Term + ETF probably beat whole life,
: but it's still not as good as IUL.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 9 股市上的回报是一样的，你的钱投进去，产出就那么大。你拿的多，经纪就拿的少。所
以经纪跟你本身就是conflict of interest。越推荐的，越是坑。你去装钱多人傻，多
问几个经纪买啥好。推荐的产品统统可以划掉。 |
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 10 Yes. That's if you don't maximize your contribution to the limit.
If you pay the minimum/target, of course you can't beat the game.
You can double check to see if you buy a smaller policy and max out
contribution using 7 pay to see if that can beat your strategy of term +
index (let's not forget you need to pay tax on your gain). |
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 11 why don't you update your number and let us see see then?
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Yes. That's if you don't maximize your contribution to the limit.
: If you pay the minimum/target, of course you can't beat the game.
: You can double check to see if you buy a smaller policy and max out
: contribution using 7 pay to see if that can beat your strategy of term +
: index (let's not forget you need to pay tax on your gain).
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 12 Of course it's conflict of interest. If you buy high death benefit policy
then you are not only dumb but also making the agent big commission. But if
you buy low death benefit and max out the contribution then it's a great
strategy to plan and invest for the future. Life Insurance is not something
short term. I am buying it for my 1 year old baby by maxing out the
contribution to fully take advantage of the plan. I am sure it will beat
your term + index in the long run. |
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 13 My son borned 7/2014.
2 million increasing policy.
7 Pay -
Age
1 $20,299
2 20,299
3 20,299
4 2,191
5 14,682
6 15,554
7 15,554
8 15,554
9 15,554
10 15,554
Total Investment - 155,540 (Maximum I can invest for the 10 years)
Total Investment for 10 years.
Using conservative # around 7% return.
Year 10 - 175868
Year 20 - 345313
Year 30 - 685832
Year 40 - 1378821
Year 50 - 2778980
Year 60 - 5598186
Year 65 - 7940248 Total Death Benefit 9,528,298
Cash value after all the expenses already.
Pretty income tax free.
Of course, I can't beat your # for the 1st 10 years, that's where all the
expenses are.
Why don't you check to see if you can beat my # after that and don't forget
you need to pay income tax. |
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 14 My parents actually have whole life insurance, they bought it when I wasn't
old enough to figure out these things. And I've seen how these plan suck as
time goes by. That's called first hand experience over a decade.
And no, yours won't beat mine, not even close. I saved a bunch of dollars
for not having to buy life insurance after 60 and give a big cut to
insurance company, while my life expectance is
probably around 90.
if
something
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Of course it's conflict of interest. If you buy high death benefit policy
: then you are not only dumb but also making the agent big commission. But if
: you buy low death benefit and max out the contribution then it's a great
: strategy to plan and invest for the future. Life Insurance is not something
: short term. I am buying it for my 1 year old baby by maxing out the
: contribution to fully take advantage of the plan. I am sure it will beat
: your term + index in the long run.
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 15 If you are 60 then of course I can't beat you.
Your cost of insurance is way up there and your accumulation time is limited
.
And I doubt you can't beat me using my # and scenario.
We are not comparing apple to apple. =)
You had bad experience doesn't mean the plan is not good. It's just not
suitable for you. |
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 16 If I am very rich, it may make sense, I give you that. Otherwise there're
enough articles on the comparison and I don't want to repeat myself here. At
the end of the day, it's a conflict of interest, if it's really that good,
it doesn't need a highly trained sales agent. It sells by itself.
BTW, flexibility is also worth big money. There's a reason why long term
bond has rate much higher than short term ones. You discount that totally
and you can never find an apple in term+index.
limited
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: If you are 60 then of course I can't beat you.
: Your cost of insurance is way up there and your accumulation time is limited
: .
: And I doubt you can't beat me using my # and scenario.
: We are not comparing apple to apple. =)
: You had bad experience doesn't mean the plan is not good. It's just not
: suitable for you.
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 17 If it sells itself and offer high and unreasonable return, I would run. You
just have to know if you can maximize the benefit. If you can't then it's
not suitable for you. I did my research and calculation and it's suitable
for my family situation. Not everyone can max it out and nothing is for
everyone. Of course it's a shame for an agent to try to sell it to you if it
's not suitable but then again, you have to do your homework. Agent has no
incentive to ask you to maximize the benefit since they only get paid on the
target premium. Just like my son policy, the target is $6000 and MAX is 20K
. Agent only get paid on the $6000. |
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 18 As for flexibility, do you know that you can borrow the $ out @ 0.5%
interest for the 1st 10 years and wash (0%) loan after 10 years? My son can
take at least 60% of (Year 30 - 685832) and not pay back without affecting
his policy and pay no income tax. He can also choose to pay back the loan
later to continue make risk free money. That's what I call flexibility. |
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 19 If it's my own money, why do I need to borrow and pay and interest and fee?
And you call that flexibility?
can
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: As for flexibility, do you know that you can borrow the $ out @ 0.5%
: interest for the 1st 10 years and wash (0%) loan after 10 years? My son can
: take at least 60% of (Year 30 - 685832) and not pay back without affecting
: his policy and pay no income tax. He can also choose to pay back the loan
: later to continue make risk free money. That's what I call flexibility.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 20 So called IUL is just a whole life + index Annuity. Term life > whole life,
index fund
> index Annuity, it's that simple.
Also, does your number include dividend for going index route? I highly
doubt that. You may do your homework but you didn't do enough. And now you
are stuck, that's called inflexibility. |
|
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 21 Yes.... It's your money after you pay uncle sam tax.
Why are you picking on the 0.5% interest for 1st 10 years and not looking at
0% interest and no income tax part after year 10?
We are looking at things differently. I tried to take/max out the advantage
on the plan and you just try to pick on little things to try to make it look
bad.
I won't mind borrowing the money if I can legally not pay tax.
Life insurance money is not something you need to tap into day in or day out
. Just like yixia1972 said, it's spare money to him and to me. If it's
something emergency then I won't mind paying 0.5%. |
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 22 What little things? 2-4% dividend over last 30 years is little things? The
truth is in the details. How about cost of insurance (COI), do you know
insurance company can increase that on that own?
at
advantage
look
out
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Yes.... It's your money after you pay uncle sam tax.
: Why are you picking on the 0.5% interest for 1st 10 years and not looking at
: 0% interest and no income tax part after year 10?
: We are looking at things differently. I tried to take/max out the advantage
: on the plan and you just try to pick on little things to try to make it look
: bad.
: I won't mind borrowing the money if I can legally not pay tax.
: Life insurance money is not something you need to tap into day in or day out
: . Just like yixia1972 said, it's spare money to him and to me. If it's
: something emergency then I won't mind paying 0.5%.
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 23 So I guess you shouldn't be investing in 401K or any kind of IRA since you
are stuck too until 59 1/2. It's SPARE MONEY and 0% interest is not stuck.
If you want to call it inflexibility then it is fine with me. I am glad my
child is protect with living benefits if something happens to him so in
that sense stuck/inflexibility = protection then I am happy to take it.
Nothing is perfect, of course you can pick on all the negatives about the
IUL because it's NOT SUITABLE for you. To me, the gain outweighs the
negatives or inconveniences then it's good enough.
Like you said, if it's perfect then they don't need sales.
SUITABLE is the key. |
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 24 how's the 2-4% compares to no income tax and extra couple million tax free
death benefit for the family estate? how come you forgot about the
insurance benefit part now? it's all trade off. Something not suitable for
60 years old makes perfect sense for my little 1 year old son.
I am not trying to put down your argument because situation is totally
different but it doesn't mean IUL is bad, it's just not suitable for you. |
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 25 My investment return - tax will be higher than your tax free return in the
long run, especially since I can accumulate much faster in early years. Plus
I can cash out any time without fee.
On flexibility, I am fairly sure I can come up positive this year with my
simple market timing strategy, because I can go long and short, good luck
with yours.
Also, some benefits, like estate tax over 5M, likely have to raise threshold
in 65 years due to inflation reason.
The way I see it, I may lose some tax benefits if I become very wealthy. But
it's like why I do 401K deferral today. It's also possible that I earn more
during my retirement life than right now. But I don't mind paying a little
more tax if that's really the case. I don't want to corner myself into one
product 30 years before I retire.
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: So I guess you shouldn't be investing in 401K or any kind of IRA since you
: are stuck too until 59 1/2. It's SPARE MONEY and 0% interest is not stuck.
: If you want to call it inflexibility then it is fine with me. I am glad my
: child is protect with living benefits if something happens to him so in
: that sense stuck/inflexibility = protection then I am happy to take it.
: Nothing is perfect, of course you can pick on all the negatives about the
: IUL because it's NOT SUITABLE for you. To me, the gain outweighs the
: negatives or inconveniences then it's good enough.
: Like you said, if it's perfect then they don't need sales.
: SUITABLE is the key.
|
x******x
发帖数: 1903 | 26 写得很好，谢谢分享
【在 c*******n 的大作中提到】
: 你很为家人着想，我很感动。我平时很少回贴的，也特地登录给你回贴。
: 我去年考过保险执照，对保险有一定的认识，后来因为个人原因没有做这个。
: 你提到的两家公司都是美国最好的之一，虽然贵了点，但有保障。
: 我知道有很多经纪会用目前最乐观的利率增长给客人做计划，说“可能”10年后就能用
: 红利付保费。但事实上我认识有十几年前买你说的其中一家保险的顾客，到现在还是要
: 付。如果不付的后果就是从现金值贷款付保费，要付利息。现金值如果降到零，保险也
: 就没有了。十年以上的Whole Life没有了是很可惜的。
: 假如你的保险经纪说十年付清，我建议你问他“这是garuanteed的吗？”如果说是，请
: 他给你指出在保单上的那一句，没有的话就不要签保单，因为你可能买的是和你想象的
: 不一样的东西。
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 27 Well, IUL is for people who doesn't want to take market risk.
We just want simple/reasonable return with 0 downside.
If I am good with stock then I won't be looking at IUL. =)
Good night!
Plus
threshold
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: My investment return - tax will be higher than your tax free return in the
: long run, especially since I can accumulate much faster in early years. Plus
: I can cash out any time without fee.
: On flexibility, I am fairly sure I can come up positive this year with my
: simple market timing strategy, because I can go long and short, good luck
: with yours.
: Also, some benefits, like estate tax over 5M, likely have to raise threshold
: in 65 years due to inflation reason.
: The way I see it, I may lose some tax benefits if I become very wealthy. But
: it's like why I do 401K deferral today. It's also possible that I earn more
|
o*********6
发帖数: 3 | 28 Not true. IUL is for very RICH people.
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Well, IUL is for people who doesn't want to take market risk.
: We just want simple/reasonable return with 0 downside.
: If I am good with stock then I won't be looking at IUL. =)
: Good night!
:
: Plus
: threshold
|
r******o
发帖数: 1530 | 29 golden rule, whenever you are not sure about something, buy a little bit of
both, in this case, buy a little bit of whole life, then term life, then
mutual fund and then 529 plan, etc.
Give it 3-5 years, wait and see! |
a*****8
发帖数: 2689 | 30 生命保险一定要买，但是买个30年的就足够了。每月付钱不多，够用就行 。不要买带
投资性质的任何保险 ，都是忽悠 ，如果有闲钱，买房子更保险，或者买fund 。 |
|
|
y*******2
发帖数: 746 | 31 谢谢你的回答。我对你提到的那个朋友的情况有个问题：
"但事实上我认识有十几年前买你说的其中一家保险的顾客，到现在还是要
付。如果不付的后果就是从现金值贷款付保费，要付利息。"
我看到纽约人寿和northwestern mutual都有garanteed的cash value，大概每年有4%左
右的garanteed return。这是我为什么想选这俩家的原因。
你提到的你朋友的那种情况，是不是因为他前10年每年交的钱很少啊？
谢谢
【在 c*******n 的大作中提到】
: 你很为家人着想，我很感动。我平时很少回贴的，也特地登录给你回贴。
: 我去年考过保险执照，对保险有一定的认识，后来因为个人原因没有做这个。
: 你提到的两家公司都是美国最好的之一，虽然贵了点，但有保障。
: 我知道有很多经纪会用目前最乐观的利率增长给客人做计划，说“可能”10年后就能用
: 红利付保费。但事实上我认识有十几年前买你说的其中一家保险的顾客，到现在还是要
: 付。如果不付的后果就是从现金值贷款付保费，要付利息。现金值如果降到零，保险也
: 就没有了。十年以上的Whole Life没有了是很可惜的。
: 假如你的保险经纪说十年付清，我建议你问他“这是garuanteed的吗？”如果说是，请
: 他给你指出在保单上的那一句，没有的话就不要签保单，因为你可能买的是和你想象的
: 不一样的东西。
|
h**q
发帖数: 128 | 32 其实最关键的问题是，你对风险承受能力有多少？在美国这个成熟的市场里，风险和收
益一定是一一对应的。wholelife风险最小，所以收益最少。iul风险大一点，收益也大
一点。term+index fund收益完爆前两个，风险也是最大的。所谓一分价钱一分货，就
是这个道理。 |
r******o
发帖数: 1530 | 33 term + index fund, has a very important assumption that normal people don't
realize, is that it needs the person to be very disciplined, no matter
market goes up or down, you always need to buy that amount, and to that for
30 years.
That can actually be a problem. People always want to time the market, it's
human nature. If we factor in this behavior, on the long run, practically
speaking, I'm not sure term+index would outperform whole life for average
people. The out-performance is more theoretical.
【在 h**q 的大作中提到】
: 其实最关键的问题是，你对风险承受能力有多少？在美国这个成熟的市场里，风险和收
: 益一定是一一对应的。wholelife风险最小，所以收益最少。iul风险大一点，收益也大
: 一点。term+index fund收益完爆前两个，风险也是最大的。所谓一分价钱一分货，就
: 是这个道理。
|
g***r
发帖数: 281 | 34 That's not true.
IUL or whole life 基本理念是必须长期投资才合算。用 high management cost 来换
取所谓的guarantee return. 但是如果真是长期投资, market risk is already
minimized.
只要是长期投资，基本上是无风险的。这个我比较过。
你可以算一下过去几十年的 SP500 Index, 任意取20年 or 30年的时段, return is *
very* stable.
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Well, IUL is for people who doesn't want to take market risk.
: We just want simple/reasonable return with 0 downside.
: If I am good with stock then I won't be looking at IUL. =)
: Good night!
:
: Plus
: threshold
|
a****i
发帖数: 4783 | 35 所有保险除非必须，能不买就不买。
只要你小孩在你死后不会流落街头，那么你直接管理钱交给他们要比你买保险交给他们
的要多。原因很简单，life insurance的赔付率不到30%，也就是说70%的钱被保险公司
的人吃掉了。这就好像你的投资自动先缩水70%。
所以保险就是保险，不是投资，就是保证在你生命出危险的时候你的家人不至于流落街
头，或者说，保险是最糟糕的投资。
【在 y*******2 的大作中提到】
: 想买个whole life insurance，一是保意外，孩子还小，太太不工作，万一我挂了家人
: 有保障。二是等我自然老死以后给孩子留笔钱，他们不用交税。
: 说说我的情况。有俩个小孩，都还小。太太不工作。我的收入还可以，每年各种收入加
: 起来税后大概20万美元左右。全家各种花销每年大概7万美元左右。所以每年有些闲钱
: 可以来投资或者买保险。我不是太善于投资，做股票经常是赚几笔然后一笔就全亏回去
: 。所以现在对玩股票投资赚钱不报幻想了。想找些保守的投资渠道。
: 最近研究了下whole life （不是IUL，是那种traditional whole life），觉得有俩家
: 还可以，一个是new york life,另外一个是northwestern mutual.
: 买100万的policy，大概是每年交4万美金，连续交10年就不用交了。然后看起来cash
: value就能保证稳定增长了。
|
a****i
发帖数: 4783 | 36 显然不对，Golden rule: whenever you are not sure about something, don't do
anything.
of
【在 r******o 的大作中提到】
: golden rule, whenever you are not sure about something, buy a little bit of
: both, in this case, buy a little bit of whole life, then term life, then
: mutual fund and then 529 plan, etc.
: Give it 3-5 years, wait and see!
|
y*******2
发帖数: 746 | 37 没错。我玩股票就是纪律性特差，经常冲动。
所以往往是费半天劲转了几笔然后一笔就陪回去。
t
for
's
practically
【在 r******o 的大作中提到】
: term + index fund, has a very important assumption that normal people don't
: realize, is that it needs the person to be very disciplined, no matter
: market goes up or down, you always need to buy that amount, and to that for
: 30 years.
: That can actually be a problem. People always want to time the market, it's
: human nature. If we factor in this behavior, on the long run, practically
: speaking, I'm not sure term+index would outperform whole life for average
: people. The out-performance is more theoretical.
|
r******o
发帖数: 1530 | 38 well, do nothing is apparently not an option for LZ at this point.
【在 a****i 的大作中提到】
: 显然不对，Golden rule: whenever you are not sure about something, don't do
: anything.
:
: of
|
g********s
发帖数: 3652 | 39 我认识保险公司老板告诉我不要买！我于是退出了我为了帮朋友买的保险。再也不会买
保险那是给bi人白白送钱的 |
n*********7
发帖数: 4682 | 40 别傻的，要4万一年，玩个P啊
老老实实买个一般的life insurance, 比如tiaa的, 40岁 100万每个月60来块，买个20
年也就25000， 那个时候你娃大了，你挂不挂关系不大
其他的银子用来投资，不折腾买index得了 |
|
|
b******1
发帖数: 255 | |
B********n
发帖数: 12753 | 42 搭车问一下公司提供的这个VUL plan
Fully portable permanent life insurance protection
Potential for tax-deferred growth if you choose to pay additional premiums
The ability to recover premiums through surrenders and withdrawals up to the
amount of all premiums paid before incurring any income taxes*
Access to your certificate value without any surrender charges
Guaranteed Issue
250,000 23.xx/month
500,000 40.xx/month
750,000 57.xx/month
1,000,000 75.xx/month
Simplified Issue
1,250,000 92.xx/month
1,500,000 110.xx/month
1,750,000 127.xx/month
2,000,000 145.xx/month |
B********n
发帖数: 12753 | 43 我也觉得4w一年的太贵了，还不如买term，你买个15年20年，买到孩子20岁，税不税的
，你现在也没多少财产，2015年要500w+以上部分才需要交联邦遗产税，（州里也可能
有比如纽约是200w，你查自己州），个人感觉等你整体身价超过500w了再考虑要不要靠
保险避税吧
20
【在 n*********7 的大作中提到】
: 别傻的，要4万一年，玩个P啊
: 老老实实买个一般的life insurance, 比如tiaa的, 40岁 100万每个月60来块，买个20
: 年也就25000， 那个时候你娃大了，你挂不挂关系不大
: 其他的银子用来投资，不折腾买index得了
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 44 过60年我就不信 500万的幅度不会涨。避税保险也不是唯一手段，比如可以买房子。
【在 B********n 的大作中提到】
: 我也觉得4w一年的太贵了，还不如买term，你买个15年20年，买到孩子20岁，税不税的
: ，你现在也没多少财产，2015年要500w+以上部分才需要交联邦遗产税，（州里也可能
: 有比如纽约是200w，你查自己州），个人感觉等你整体身价超过500w了再考虑要不要靠
: 保险避税吧
:
: 20
|
s*******d
发帖数: 17566 | 45 不知道你年纪和身体状况,好像4万/年有点贵.
我03年也被忽悠买的Metlife的Whole life Policy,100万的保额.每年$11000多吧,1年
后又被忽悠加上Enricher, 保额增加到150万。付了2年觉得不划算,就改为只付$250/年
将Enricher保留着.到今年为止总共付了将近18万的保费，我刚才瞄了一眼现在的
Account状况
Death Benefit：150万
Cash Value： 30万出头一点
如果现在不再付保费，每年的分红可以抵了。我是当这部分是闲钱扔在一边，所以也没
有仔细算是否划算， 也继续在付。
【在 y*******2 的大作中提到】
: 想买个whole life insurance，一是保意外，孩子还小，太太不工作，万一我挂了家人
: 有保障。二是等我自然老死以后给孩子留笔钱，他们不用交税。
: 说说我的情况。有俩个小孩，都还小。太太不工作。我的收入还可以，每年各种收入加
: 起来税后大概20万美元左右。全家各种花销每年大概7万美元左右。所以每年有些闲钱
: 可以来投资或者买保险。我不是太善于投资，做股票经常是赚几笔然后一笔就全亏回去
: 。所以现在对玩股票投资赚钱不报幻想了。想找些保守的投资渠道。
: 最近研究了下whole life （不是IUL，是那种traditional whole life），觉得有俩家
: 还可以，一个是new york life,另外一个是northwestern mutual.
: 买100万的policy，大概是每年交4万美金，连续交10年就不用交了。然后看起来cash
: value就能保证稳定增长了。
|
l******y
发帖数: 191 | 46 conservative 7% haha It's negative this year.
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: My son borned 7/2014.
: 2 million increasing policy.
: 7 Pay -
: Age
: 1 $20,299
: 2 20,299
: 3 20,299
: 4 2,191
: 5 14,682
: 6 15,554
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 47 Apparently you didn't read closely and don't know how IUL works.
It's 0% - 12.5%. In a negative year, your loss is 0%.
You never lose money. Your cost is the Cost of Insurance after year 10
and other charges for the 1st 10 years which is expensive.
I never say IUL is cheap, you just have to put enough cash or maximize it to
make it worthwhile.
【在 l******y 的大作中提到】
: conservative 7% haha It's negative this year.
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 48 Just curious, can you explain how did you pay 180K when
每年$11000多吧
$250/年
Even if you pay 11K for 13 years, it's 143K.
【在 s*******d 的大作中提到】
: 不知道你年纪和身体状况,好像4万/年有点贵.
: 我03年也被忽悠买的Metlife的Whole life Policy,100万的保额.每年$11000多吧,1年
: 后又被忽悠加上Enricher, 保额增加到150万。付了2年觉得不划算,就改为只付$250/年
: 将Enricher保留着.到今年为止总共付了将近18万的保费，我刚才瞄了一眼现在的
: Account状况
: Death Benefit：150万
: Cash Value： 30万出头一点
: 如果现在不再付保费，每年的分红可以抵了。我是当这部分是闲钱扔在一边，所以也没
: 有仔细算是否划算， 也继续在付。
|
s*******d
发帖数: 17566 | 49 还付了2年近3万的Enricher，后改为$250/年最低保持住这个option。
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Just curious, can you explain how did you pay 180K when
: 每年$11000多吧
: $250/年
: Even if you pay 11K for 13 years, it's 143K.
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 50 Ok. Thanks for the info. =)
【在 s*******d 的大作中提到】
: 还付了2年近3万的Enricher，后改为$250/年最低保持住这个option。
|
|
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 51 Annuity works that way too, and it's a bad investment. Don't forget
insurance company can raise cost of insurance, and they always do.
to
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Apparently you didn't read closely and don't know how IUL works.
: It's 0% - 12.5%. In a negative year, your loss is 0%.
: You never lose money. Your cost is the Cost of Insurance after year 10
: and other charges for the 1st 10 years which is expensive.
: I never say IUL is cheap, you just have to put enough cash or maximize it to
: make it worthwhile.
|
r*******y
发帖数: 290 | 52 plus: if market is up 20%, IUL is only up 20% * participation rate like 60%
IUL is generally not good for average joe
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Annuity works that way too, and it's a bad investment. Don't forget
: insurance company can raise cost of insurance, and they always do.
:
: to
|
p******g
发帖数: 15 | 53 about taxes. you don't pay ordinary income taxes on your return. long term
capital gain tax is only 15% or less, so are qualified dividends. that's
less than the commissions you pay your agent.
someone thinks they can beat the system by maxing out contributions to build
up cash values tax free. let me tell you IRS is no dummy they have already
figured out the game. look at the 7-pay test and the corridor test. your
cash values must stay within a narrow band of your death benefit. cash value
is designed as a reserve to fund your premiums, not to make you unlimited
tax-free gains.
VUL, IUL, they all suck. nothing but sales pitch to sell you whole life
policy that you don't need. e.g. IUL's strategy is taking the 3-4% fixed
return from the general account and buy options to harvest the return more
aggressively. be wary of financial alchemy that turns 4% into 7%. if it
exists, you bet people will be beating down the door and beg for it. |
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 54 I think Annuity is different animal. You have to pay tax on the gain so that
would be the last resort if you don't know how to invest and have no place
to invest.
Yes, insurance company can raise cost of insurance but not individually. If
they raise the overall cost of insurance then they will lose new business.
America is open and competitive, there is will be consequence if they raise
and not their competitor.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Annuity works that way too, and it's a bad investment. Don't forget
: insurance company can raise cost of insurance, and they always do.
:
: to
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 55 Well, on the contrary, it's perfect tool for the average Joe considering the
downside protection of 0%. If you been through 2008 of 38% down market then
you would appreciate that and sleep better at night. It's simply trade off.
Average Joe can't trade like goodbug, they tend to lack of self-discipline
and tend to sell low and buy high.
%
【在 r*******y 的大作中提到】
: plus: if market is up 20%, IUL is only up 20% * participation rate like 60%
: IUL is generally not good for average joe
|
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 56 Yes. Also don't forget there is state tax. Like I said, if you are good with
stock and very self-discipline then IUL is not for you.
However, most of the people aren't.
The example I gave for my son is using the 7-pay test and I am totally aware
of it.
I am not sure how you measure beating the system, the # I ran gives good/
acceptable
return considering the effort and time involved. It's nothing close to
making my son
rich.
IUL uses the money to buy bond, long/short call/puts.
They work just like hedge fund / institutional investors.
However, whatever they invest has nothing to do with policy holders
as long as they provide promised return.
It's up to individual to decide whether they need the protection.
I don't like VUL, if I need to take risk in VUL, I would just invest
in individual mutual fund and buy term life.
build
already
value
【在 p******g 的大作中提到】
: about taxes. you don't pay ordinary income taxes on your return. long term
: capital gain tax is only 15% or less, so are qualified dividends. that's
: less than the commissions you pay your agent.
: someone thinks they can beat the system by maxing out contributions to build
: up cash values tax free. let me tell you IRS is no dummy they have already
: figured out the game. look at the 7-pay test and the corridor test. your
: cash values must stay within a narrow band of your death benefit. cash value
: is designed as a reserve to fund your premiums, not to make you unlimited
: tax-free gains.
: VUL, IUL, they all suck. nothing but sales pitch to sell you whole life
|
w***n
发帖数: 43 | 57
因你是家里主要的经济贡献者，其它投资方式（股票）不感兴趣，保险是很不错的选择
。因你太太不工作，孩子还小，建议你买有生前福利的whole life or GUL. 你的收入
稳定，10年缴清不是问题，可以避免提前撤单的损失。除了你提到的new york life 和
Northwestern mutual 外，给你介绍另两家：1. mass mutual: whole life,保证终身
险100万美元，10年付清，每年29890美元，保证现金值等10年达所有10年的总付出（加
州，男，35岁，好身体）；2. Columbus: GUL,保证终身险100万美元，10年付清，每年
9809美元，保证现金值不多（加州，男，35岁，好身体）。这两家都有免费的生前福利
。希望能帮到你。
【在 y*******2 的大作中提到】
: 想买个whole life insurance，一是保意外，孩子还小，太太不工作，万一我挂了家人
: 有保障。二是等我自然老死以后给孩子留笔钱，他们不用交税。
: 说说我的情况。有俩个小孩，都还小。太太不工作。我的收入还可以，每年各种收入加
: 起来税后大概20万美元左右。全家各种花销每年大概7万美元左右。所以每年有些闲钱
: 可以来投资或者买保险。我不是太善于投资，做股票经常是赚几笔然后一笔就全亏回去
: 。所以现在对玩股票投资赚钱不报幻想了。想找些保守的投资渠道。
: 最近研究了下whole life （不是IUL，是那种traditional whole life），觉得有俩家
: 还可以，一个是new york life,另外一个是northwestern mutual.
: 买100万的policy，大概是每年交4万美金，连续交10年就不用交了。然后看起来cash
: value就能保证稳定增长了。
|
B********n
发帖数: 12753 | 58 房子留给孩子页算在500w里的
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: 过60年我就不信 500万的幅度不会涨。避税保险也不是唯一手段，比如可以买房子。
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 59 Well, they can certainly raise COI on old customers only. When your
surrender cost is skyrocket high. It's like cable/phone companies giving
discount to new customers, lock them for 2 years, and raise price in 2nd
year anyway.
that
place
If
raise
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: I think Annuity is different animal. You have to pay tax on the gain so that
: would be the last resort if you don't know how to invest and have no place
: to invest.
: Yes, insurance company can raise cost of insurance but not individually. If
: they raise the overall cost of insurance then they will lose new business.
: America is open and competitive, there is will be consequence if they raise
: and not their competitor.
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 60 至少capital gain < 50万可以免税。
【在 B********n 的大作中提到】
: 房子留给孩子页算在500w里的
|
|
|
p******g
发帖数: 15 | 61 each parent has 500万 life time gift exemption. so parents can transfer 1000
万 to your kids tax free. it's called portability.
also no capital gain tax for houses. the basis reset at market value. |
k********0
发帖数: 20 | 62 Of course they can raise COI but at risk of losing new business and losing
to competition. Once they raise, it's throughout the same risk class and not
targeted individually just because you are locked in the surrender period (
10 years in decreasing amount). If the insurance company raise COI
carelessly, it won't stay in the business for long.
【在 g*****g 的大作中提到】
: Well, they can certainly raise COI on old customers only. When your
: surrender cost is skyrocket high. It's like cable/phone companies giving
: discount to new customers, lock them for 2 years, and raise price in 2nd
: year anyway.
:
: that
: place
: If
: raise
|
g*****g
发帖数: 34805 | 63 Carelessly no, they are sure gonna hit your pain point with lots of careful
calculation. Once you are locked in, it wasn't like you have much leverage.
And no, it's not a highly competitive market. Unlike level term, every IUL
is different.
not
(
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Of course they can raise COI but at risk of losing new business and losing
: to competition. Once they raise, it's throughout the same risk class and not
: targeted individually just because you are locked in the surrender period (
: 10 years in decreasing amount). If the insurance company raise COI
: carelessly, it won't stay in the business for long.
|
t*c
发帖数: 8291 | 64 没必要买whole life. 就买term life, 比如20年的，买到小孩上大学就可以了。
小孩长大了可以自立，不需要你的保险。
你的老婆只要房贷付清，吃饭有food stamp, 医疗有免费的obamacare。
购买term life的保额， 至少要够付清剩余房贷。
再加一些你认为是刚需的。就差不多了。
也不用买太多，就是应个急。毕竟平均寿命80岁呢。
【在 y*******2 的大作中提到】
: 想买个whole life insurance，一是保意外，孩子还小，太太不工作，万一我挂了家人
: 有保障。二是等我自然老死以后给孩子留笔钱，他们不用交税。
: 说说我的情况。有俩个小孩，都还小。太太不工作。我的收入还可以，每年各种收入加
: 起来税后大概20万美元左右。全家各种花销每年大概7万美元左右。所以每年有些闲钱
: 可以来投资或者买保险。我不是太善于投资，做股票经常是赚几笔然后一笔就全亏回去
: 。所以现在对玩股票投资赚钱不报幻想了。想找些保守的投资渠道。
: 最近研究了下whole life （不是IUL，是那种traditional whole life），觉得有俩家
: 还可以，一个是new york life,另外一个是northwestern mutual.
: 买100万的policy，大概是每年交4万美金，连续交10年就不用交了。然后看起来cash
: value就能保证稳定增长了。
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l*******n
发帖数: 2718 | 65 同意
【在 k********0 的大作中提到】
: Well, IUL is for people who doesn't want to take market risk.
: We just want simple/reasonable return with 0 downside.
: If I am good with stock then I won't be looking at IUL. =)
: Good night!
:
: Plus
: threshold
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