c********d 发帖数: 11593 | 1 虽然是被版上这次的老人vs孩子大讨论引起的,故事本身倒跟这些磕磕碰碰的事情无关
。作为一个两岁(快三岁)的娃妈,我的看法是:护犊子肯定是不好看的。但作为父母
,完全的帮理不帮亲、一点不护犊子也是肯定不对的。那位楼主在我看来最大的问题并
不是护犊子姿态的难看,而是她太过于经常地做这样难看的事。
这个故事完全是听我妈转述的,那个护犊子的妈是我的姑姑,而孩子是我表哥。说起我
这个表哥,他比我要大五六岁,是个好静的书虫,平时就爱坐在那里看书,脾气也十分
温和。我妈说,我在两三岁时也是个熊孩子,有次跟他玩着玩着不知怎么的突然使劲拉
他的头发,是那种整个人挂在他身上的拉法儿,他都痛得掉眼泪了;然后在我妈要打我
时,他说“别打,别打,她还小”。
就是这么个好孩子,在上初中时出了一件事,期末考试作弊。具体是打小抄还是和同学
互抄什么的已经完全不知道了。但是学校当时决定的处分是挺厉害的,开除。
这事儿,首先我表哥肯定不占理,作弊就是作弊。但是学校的处罚的确也太重,记得国
内学校里处分从轻到重依次是警告、记过、留校察看、开除。开除是最厉害的,而且有
这么一笔写在档案上,以后考高中考大学都会非常麻烦。
然后我姑姑就去学校大闹了,按照我妈的说法,姑姑一辈子老实巴交的(考虑到她俩是
很容易出矛盾的姑嫂关系,我妈都认为她老实,那是真老实),那回为了儿子可是结结
实实地也是唯一地做了一次泼妇,冲到校长室拍桌子吼,说出来的话也是完全的蛮横不
讲理,大概意思是“我儿子在家里很乖,怎么到了学校就作弊,都是你们把他教坏了”
。一番大闹居然也管用了,学校撤销了开除的处分,改了一个很轻的处分了当。
我妈的评论是,平时看姑姑就那么普普通通的一个女人,并没觉得她怎样了不起;但是
那次做到这个地步,她是很佩服的,觉得这样才不愧是为人母。顺便说一下我表哥的近
况,他现在在北京的一家小IT公司做VP,有两套房,娶了老婆生了孩子,过着幸福的小
日子。姑姑那次护犊子,就目前看来对他的人生并未造成负面影响,是happy ending。
我想到的是,当父母在紧要关头护犊子的时候,姿态是不可能太过于优雅的。诚然,理
想中的美好状态是,姑姑到了学校,从容镇定,侃侃而谈,引经据典,和风细雨地摆事
实讲道理,坦率承认自己孩子的错误,请求学校重新考虑,最后终于说服了校长,撤销
了决定。然而一个普通的女人到了那个地步,再泼,也值得原谅。
而作为硬币的另一面,这种护犊子的方式因为难看,因此不遇到非常关头最好还是别轻
易拿出来。我表哥这样,面临学校开除的处境,所以我姑姑拼了;但是平时孩子玩,和
别家打打闹闹磕着碰着,就没必要非得说道个一二三了。一来没必要,小孩不记事,大
人还在这边吵说不定小孩那边早就又玩到一起去了;二来人品这玩艺难攒易耗,三两下
为这些小打小闹的事情耗光了,以后在更紧要的地方也没法子了。 |
a******o 发帖数: 261 | 2 This is the classic Chinese way of settling dispute - it's not necessarily
about who's right but who's got more ppl and louder.
Works in China I guess. Here? Not so much.
【在 c********d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 虽然是被版上这次的老人vs孩子大讨论引起的,故事本身倒跟这些磕磕碰碰的事情无关 : 。作为一个两岁(快三岁)的娃妈,我的看法是:护犊子肯定是不好看的。但作为父母 : ,完全的帮理不帮亲、一点不护犊子也是肯定不对的。那位楼主在我看来最大的问题并 : 不是护犊子姿态的难看,而是她太过于经常地做这样难看的事。 : 这个故事完全是听我妈转述的,那个护犊子的妈是我的姑姑,而孩子是我表哥。说起我 : 这个表哥,他比我要大五六岁,是个好静的书虫,平时就爱坐在那里看书,脾气也十分 : 温和。我妈说,我在两三岁时也是个熊孩子,有次跟他玩着玩着不知怎么的突然使劲拉 : 他的头发,是那种整个人挂在他身上的拉法儿,他都痛得掉眼泪了;然后在我妈要打我 : 时,他说“别打,别打,她还小”。 : 就是这么个好孩子,在上初中时出了一件事,期末考试作弊。具体是打小抄还是和同学
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g*****o 发帖数: 1564 | 3 赞英文一如既往的好
也不好说,我觉得这个学校本身制度就没制定好,第一不明确,没有告诉大家作弊的后
果,第二处罚过重,作弊一次警告处分差不多吧。
处罚的目的是教育,而不是毁灭
中国比较讲人情,美国这边可能不讲
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : This is the classic Chinese way of settling dispute - it's not necessarily : about who's right but who's got more ppl and louder. : Works in China I guess. Here? Not so much.
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B******Z 发帖数: 9193 | 4 不讲才怪
【在 g*****o 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 赞英文一如既往的好 : 也不好说,我觉得这个学校本身制度就没制定好,第一不明确,没有告诉大家作弊的后 : 果,第二处罚过重,作弊一次警告处分差不多吧。 : 处罚的目的是教育,而不是毁灭 : 中国比较讲人情,美国这边可能不讲
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G**T 发帖数: 2610 | 5 我一直以为“护犊子”这个词有特指,以为不是为孩子出头都叫护犊子的。 |
c******k 发帖数: 277 | 6 这样教育处的小孩肯定有问题
【在 c********d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 虽然是被版上这次的老人vs孩子大讨论引起的,故事本身倒跟这些磕磕碰碰的事情无关 : 。作为一个两岁(快三岁)的娃妈,我的看法是:护犊子肯定是不好看的。但作为父母 : ,完全的帮理不帮亲、一点不护犊子也是肯定不对的。那位楼主在我看来最大的问题并 : 不是护犊子姿态的难看,而是她太过于经常地做这样难看的事。 : 这个故事完全是听我妈转述的,那个护犊子的妈是我的姑姑,而孩子是我表哥。说起我 : 这个表哥,他比我要大五六岁,是个好静的书虫,平时就爱坐在那里看书,脾气也十分 : 温和。我妈说,我在两三岁时也是个熊孩子,有次跟他玩着玩着不知怎么的突然使劲拉 : 他的头发,是那种整个人挂在他身上的拉法儿,他都痛得掉眼泪了;然后在我妈要打我 : 时,他说“别打,别打,她还小”。 : 就是这么个好孩子,在上初中时出了一件事,期末考试作弊。具体是打小抄还是和同学
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M******k 发帖数: 27573 | 7 你是对的,炭堆这个用词不是很当.
【在 G**T 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 我一直以为“护犊子”这个词有特指,以为不是为孩子出头都叫护犊子的。
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s****l 发帖数: 16457 | 8 初中做一次弊就开除,md这是什么烂学校?再说初中还属于义务教育,学生在没影响其
他学生健康安全的情况下他们有权力开除么?是不是你表哥太老实了他们想捏个软柿子
吓唬别人?你姑姑大闹是对的。 |
l*****g 发帖数: 654 | 9 这个不算护犊子,关系到孩子一生前途呀。 以前大学同学有人考试作弊,学校要处分
,大学处分是要入档案的,影响找工作的,家长到处帮忙送礼。
平时教育孩子的时候是一回事,遇到大事了,还是能把则帮。 |
a******o 发帖数: 261 | 10 It's not so much that "美国这边不讲人情",but there's definitely more respect
for the rule of laws here.
In China there are regulations and laws too - but that only applies if you
don't have the "connection". As a result, having law on your side is no
guarantee. So if you are a peon, with no connections - even if knowing you
are right - how do you ensure you come out of a dispute favorably? Assemble
a crowd and make a scene seems to be the only viable option.
Here connections work similarly, but up to a point. There's more checks and
balances here (particularly factor in the media) and a general sense of
respect for the rule of law.
Not saying US is heaven by any means - plenty of "rigged" situations exist -
but in general the real shrewd ones get what they want not by breaking the
laws blatantly but by changing the laws subtly in their favor. This is why
the lobbyists get the big bucks.
And btw., why do you think most lobbyists are former politicians? If your
answer is "connection" or "人情" then bingo.
【在 g*****o 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 赞英文一如既往的好 : 也不好说,我觉得这个学校本身制度就没制定好,第一不明确,没有告诉大家作弊的后 : 果,第二处罚过重,作弊一次警告处分差不多吧。 : 处罚的目的是教育,而不是毁灭 : 中国比较讲人情,美国这边可能不讲
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u*****a 发帖数: 6276 | |
g*****o 发帖数: 1564 | 12 说得好,特别最后一段
窃勾者诛,窃国者侯
respect
you
Assemble
and
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : It's not so much that "美国这边不讲人情",but there's definitely more respect : for the rule of laws here. : In China there are regulations and laws too - but that only applies if you : don't have the "connection". As a result, having law on your side is no : guarantee. So if you are a peon, with no connections - even if knowing you : are right - how do you ensure you come out of a dispute favorably? Assemble : a crowd and make a scene seems to be the only viable option. : Here connections work similarly, but up to a point. There's more checks and : balances here (particularly factor in the media) and a general sense of : respect for the rule of law.
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l*****g 发帖数: 654 | 13 神经呀,老美孩子犯法了,家长有能力的,不也帮忙找律师打官司。
【在 u*****a 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 难怪中国没有诚信!
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G**T 发帖数: 2610 | 14 赞。 Very well said. Got the essence in a few short paragraphs. 言简意赅。
但是对最后一段,略有不同意见:
And btw., why do you think most lobbyists are former politicians? If your
answer is "connection" or "人情" then bingo.
"connection" or "人情" does play a not-insignificant rule, for sure, I agree
.
But, familiarity with the complex bureaucracy is the real asset & expertise.
Even for Americans - especially for Americans - it is of vital importance
to hire lobbyists who understand the complex machine, who can work the
complex machine, for their own advantage, when they have an interest to
protect.
respect
you
Assemble
and
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : It's not so much that "美国这边不讲人情",but there's definitely more respect : for the rule of laws here. : In China there are regulations and laws too - but that only applies if you : don't have the "connection". As a result, having law on your side is no : guarantee. So if you are a peon, with no connections - even if knowing you : are right - how do you ensure you come out of a dispute favorably? Assemble : a crowd and make a scene seems to be the only viable option. : Here connections work similarly, but up to a point. There's more checks and : balances here (particularly factor in the media) and a general sense of : respect for the rule of law.
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a******o 发帖数: 261 | 15 In most cases it's not about choosing b/w an incompetent lobbyist w/
connection vs. a competent lobbyist w/o connection.
If you are a lobbyist, it's is ASSUMED as part of your qualification that
you already:
"understand the complex machine, who can work the complex machine, for their
own advantage, when they have an interest..."
Now on top of that, if you happened to know the players well from your
previous job...
agree
expertise.
【在 G**T 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 赞。 Very well said. Got the essence in a few short paragraphs. 言简意赅。 : 但是对最后一段,略有不同意见: : And btw., why do you think most lobbyists are former politicians? If your : answer is "connection" or "人情" then bingo. : "connection" or "人情" does play a not-insignificant rule, for sure, I agree : . : But, familiarity with the complex bureaucracy is the real asset & expertise. : Even for Americans - especially for Americans - it is of vital importance : to hire lobbyists who understand the complex machine, who can work the : complex machine, for their own advantage, when they have an interest to
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i**e 发帖数: 19242 | |
b***d 发帖数: 2695 | 17 nod
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 神经呀,老美孩子犯法了,家长有能力的,不也帮忙找律师打官司。
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G**T 发帖数: 2610 | 18 Well, it usually comes in the whole package anyway, so there is no point for
us to dissect it too much, anyhow.
:)
their
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : In most cases it's not about choosing b/w an incompetent lobbyist w/ : connection vs. a competent lobbyist w/o connection. : If you are a lobbyist, it's is ASSUMED as part of your qualification that : you already: : "understand the complex machine, who can work the complex machine, for their : own advantage, when they have an interest..." : Now on top of that, if you happened to know the players well from your : previous job... : : agree
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b***d 发帖数: 2695 | 19 英文太好了,我只看了第一段。
我觉得美国的rule of laws是给没钱人定的, 真的
要不要我讲个身边的真事儿?
//左顾右盼得看有包子没?
:)
respect
you
Assemble
and
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : It's not so much that "美国这边不讲人情",but there's definitely more respect : for the rule of laws here. : In China there are regulations and laws too - but that only applies if you : don't have the "connection". As a result, having law on your side is no : guarantee. So if you are a peon, with no connections - even if knowing you : are right - how do you ensure you come out of a dispute favorably? Assemble : a crowd and make a scene seems to be the only viable option. : Here connections work similarly, but up to a point. There's more checks and : balances here (particularly factor in the media) and a general sense of : respect for the rule of law.
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l*****g 发帖数: 654 | 20 包子没有,憋死你
【在 b***d 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 英文太好了,我只看了第一段。 : 我觉得美国的rule of laws是给没钱人定的, 真的 : 要不要我讲个身边的真事儿? : //左顾右盼得看有包子没? : :) : : respect : you : Assemble : and
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G**T 发帖数: 2610 | 21 够狠。
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 包子没有,憋死你
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b***d 发帖数: 2695 | 22 那我就不讲,看谁先憋死谁?!
:)
【在 l*****g 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : 包子没有,憋死你
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b***d 发帖数: 2695 | |
l***2 发帖数: 486 | 24 英文真好!
respect
you
Assemble
and
【在 a******o 的大作中提到】![](/moin_static193/solenoid/img/up.png) : It's not so much that "美国这边不讲人情",but there's definitely more respect : for the rule of laws here. : In China there are regulations and laws too - but that only applies if you : don't have the "connection". As a result, having law on your side is no : guarantee. So if you are a peon, with no connections - even if knowing you : are right - how do you ensure you come out of a dispute favorably? Assemble : a crowd and make a scene seems to be the only viable option. : Here connections work similarly, but up to a point. There's more checks and : balances here (particularly factor in the media) and a general sense of : respect for the rule of law.
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