R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 1 看到这么篇文章讲base training的：
http://runnersconnect.net/coach-corner/base-training-running/
Is Your Concept of Base Training Wrong?
Why the Base Training Phase is More Than Just Lots of Easy Running
Lydiard指导的800米奥运冠军Peter Snell，也上100MPW的base training, 真正的
anaerobic training不超过6周...
而实际上, Lydiad的“base training"是包括5K to HM pace的，也包括MP run:
"In reality, Lydiard’s base training phase included two workouts.
The first was a fartlek workout, which ranged anywhere from 30 seconds to 5
minutes of harder running with a long recovery between each repeat. The pace
of the repeats was anywhere from 5k to half marathon pace, depending on the
length of the repeat and the recovery between. The effort was designed to
be moderate and run by feel rather than pace. Lydiard was a big proponent of
running by feel, a concept absent in training these days thanks to GPS
tracking devices.
The second workout staple in Lydiard’s plan was the steady state run. Like
the fartlek, this steady state run was designed to be a moderate effort –
not hard. From my understanding, Lydiard’s interpretation of steady state
was current marathon pace (notice the subtle difference between goal or “
dream” marathon pace)."
Lydiard真实的base training，其实基本上就是通常的Marathon Training了... |
m***g
发帖数: 1633 | 2 变叔转载，质量保证啊 :)
我好像上个月开始跑步的时候还问过什么是base building呢，后来没有得到很好的答
案，结果就老老实实的从零开始，只加量而从不加速，整个就相当乏味，简直能淡出个
飞禽来。回头看来可能加个把fartlek会好些～ |
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 3 一般来说加量的时候不要同时加速，量加上来以后再加点farlek之类的，
就是说凭感觉跑，想快跑几步也没问题，不用一直逼着自己慢慢晃...
文章里面也写了理由：
"Lydiard’s fartleks help maintain efficiency by stimulating the central
nervous system and activating more slow twitch muscle fibers. More
importantly, they help reduce injury by gradually introducing speed into a
training schedule. Many runners get hurt when they try to run at speeds
their muscles, tendons and ligaments aren’t ready for. These base phase
fartleks help prepare those muscles for the harder workouts after the base
phase."
另外关于第2个workout,每个人current Marathon pace, 都是纯有氧pace,
不用担心会伤害到aerobic development, 实际上只照Lydiard的base training跑,
足够一般人准备马拉松了，不需要什么Interval, Tempo之类的...
"While some of his star pupils eventually ran one hour steady states at
marathon pace in their base training, Lydiard’s “run by feel” approach
would probably suggest you start with 20 to 30 minutes at a little slower
than marathon pace and slowly build as you get stronger."
一般人如果能有轻松用MP跑1小时，配合一些long run, 就足够对付马拉松了...
【在 m***g 的大作中提到】
: 变叔转载，质量保证啊 :)
: 我好像上个月开始跑步的时候还问过什么是base building呢，后来没有得到很好的答
: 案，结果就老老实实的从零开始，只加量而从不加速，整个就相当乏味，简直能淡出个
: 飞禽来。回头看来可能加个把fartlek会好些～
|
w**********g
发帖数: 2077 | 4 推荐看一下文中提的Steady State Run。 |
m***g
发帖数: 1633 | 5 Thanks; just read it. It didn't prescribe the distance though, except that
it should be a bit longer than tempo. So, if tempo falls between 3-6 miles,
i guess SS should be like 6-8?
【在 w**********g 的大作中提到】
: 推荐看一下文中提的Steady State Run。
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 6 我上贴不是有说嘛，按时间算，从20分钟开始，慢慢build到1小时，速度从比MP慢一点
开始，
写那么长都不看，真是的....
"While some of his star pupils eventually ran one hour steady states at
marathon pace in their base training, Lydiard’s “run by feel” approach
would probably suggest you start with 20 to 30 minutes at a little slower
than marathon pace and slowly build as you get stronger."
that
miles,
【在 m***g 的大作中提到】
: Thanks; just read it. It didn't prescribe the distance though, except that
: it should be a bit longer than tempo. So, if tempo falls between 3-6 miles,
: i guess SS should be like 6-8?
|
m***g
发帖数: 1633 | 7 喔，检讨。。。 为表诚意，同意您慈母请吃饭！ :)
But，这样的话，对于我们龟速而言，这个moderate effort真是好moderate啊～
【在 R*****s 的大作中提到】
: 我上贴不是有说嘛，按时间算，从20分钟开始，慢慢build到1小时，速度从比MP慢一点
: 开始，
: 写那么长都不看，真是的....
: "While some of his star pupils eventually ran one hour steady states at
: marathon pace in their base training, Lydiard’s “run by feel” approach
: would probably suggest you start with 20 to 30 minutes at a little slower
: than marathon pace and slowly build as you get stronger."
:
: that
: miles,
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 8 那是对你们女超人来说的，MP对我来说一点都不moderate...
如果实在觉得太moderate了，Hadd's Doc还有个标准，
就是你用MP跑10迈，觉得很轻松，觉得还能再跑10迈，基本上，你就ready了 ：）
【在 m***g 的大作中提到】
: 喔，检讨。。。 为表诚意，同意您慈母请吃饭！ :)
: But，这样的话，对于我们龟速而言，这个moderate effort真是好moderate啊～
|
w**********g
发帖数: 2077 | 9 Haha
The key word is steady, and it should be within aerobic zone. Other things
don't matter that much. I had run it at slower than MP from 2 to maybe 8
miles. I am not sure.
Lydiard is feel based coach. He didn't plan the workout. He would ask his
runner how he felt, then said: ok, go out for a steady state run for 10
miles at 3/4 effort.
People from outside always wonder how exactly to interpret 3/4 effort.
Peter Snell is his most famous runner and lives at Dallas. Maybe I should
pay a visit and ask. Ha
【在 R*****s 的大作中提到】
: 那是对你们女超人来说的，MP对我来说一点都不moderate...
: 如果实在觉得太moderate了，Hadd's Doc还有个标准，
: 就是你用MP跑10迈，觉得很轻松，觉得还能再跑10迈，基本上，你就ready了 ：）
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 10 他那个年代没有GPS嘛，哈哈，只能走感觉流....
玩三项的基本都是数据控，神马心率计，GPS, 功率表，步频器，基本把自己当
机器人就好了...
【在 w**********g 的大作中提到】
: Haha
: The key word is steady, and it should be within aerobic zone. Other things
: don't matter that much. I had run it at slower than MP from 2 to maybe 8
: miles. I am not sure.
: Lydiard is feel based coach. He didn't plan the workout. He would ask his
: runner how he felt, then said: ok, go out for a steady state run for 10
: miles at 3/4 effort.
: People from outside always wonder how exactly to interpret 3/4 effort.
: Peter Snell is his most famous runner and lives at Dallas. Maybe I should
: pay a visit and ask. Ha
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w**********g
发帖数: 2077 | 11 不少人有GPS也控制不好的，嘿嘿
【在 R*****s 的大作中提到】
: 他那个年代没有GPS嘛，哈哈，只能走感觉流....
: 玩三项的基本都是数据控，神马心率计，GPS, 功率表，步频器，基本把自己当
: 机器人就好了...
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 12 那不还有pacer嘛，我现在突然觉得跑马其实是特简单特无趣一活儿...
【在 w**********g 的大作中提到】
: 不少人有GPS也控制不好的，嘿嘿
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w**********g
发帖数: 2077 | 13 Pacer不大竞业，感觉有点骗报名费的意思。芝麻号称最好，跟了一次是不错。
不过我专门纠缠MM。大比赛总能找到伴的。同样能力，MM技术好些，跑的稳，心情也好
些，哈哈
【在 R*****s 的大作中提到】
: 那不还有pacer嘛，我现在突然觉得跑马其实是特简单特无趣一活儿...
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R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 14 哈哈，话说我刚跑一巨烂的半马，路上我开始远远跟着一穿戴特专业的白MM跑，
跑了阵子她不行了，经常停下来吐，俺虽然也烂，不过还是把她超了，
结果她追上来找我说话，问我能不能和我一起跑，我说当然，MM和我并排
跑了没多久，我当时想鼓励她下来着，说加油，就快到了，结果一看牌子才7迈...
然后就听MM说句OMG，就又停下来开始吐，俺也没有那风格，说扶她一起走，自己就颠
了...
【在 w**********g 的大作中提到】
: Pacer不大竞业，感觉有点骗报名费的意思。芝麻号称最好，跟了一次是不错。
: 不过我专门纠缠MM。大比赛总能找到伴的。同样能力，MM技术好些，跑的稳，心情也好
: 些，哈哈
|
L******e
发帖数: 651 | 15 变叔你太不够意思啦， 哈哈， 你应该陪妹妹慢慢溜达
顺便问个问题， base training 期间 的5k--half MP, 多少比例比较合适呢？ |
m***g
发帖数: 1633 | |
w**********g
发帖数: 2077 | 17 Apparently and understandably,you don't know how men's body and mind
function.
In my recent half, I chased and past a girl, then was out kicked. If it were
not for her, I would've crashed more.
1 minute behind, but I got a chance to shake her hand. Well worth the hard
work. Heehee.
【在 m***g 的大作中提到】
: 跑比赛还有脑力关注mm，太酱油了吧
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 18 这个，小妹也没这请求啊，她后来其实还追上来过一次，然后就消失了，还是蛮tough
的...
要是trail race, 俺肯定陪她慢慢晃悠了...
fartlek好像一周1次吧，文章里有写，每周1次fartletk, 1次steady state,
1次long run...至于说每次里面快跑慢跑的比例，这个完全看心情吧，不然咋叫
fartlek呢, 不过不要跑high了，跑成tempo了...
【在 L******e 的大作中提到】
: 变叔你太不够意思啦， 哈哈， 你应该陪妹妹慢慢溜达
: 顺便问个问题， base training 期间 的5k--half MP, 多少比例比较合适呢？
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 19 对女的来说也一样，这叫男女搭配，干活不累，女生也喜欢男的陪跑，
12月的RT还专门有篇文章讲这个的....男的99%本能会跟着美女跑吧...
were
【在 w**********g 的大作中提到】
: Apparently and understandably,you don't know how men's body and mind
: function.
: In my recent half, I chased and past a girl, then was out kicked. If it were
: not for her, I would've crashed more.
: 1 minute behind, but I got a chance to shake her hand. Well worth the hard
: work. Heehee.
|
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 20 跑步完全不需要脑力啊，特别是半马这种，特别是我本来也不想拼命...
【在 m***g 的大作中提到】
: 跑比赛还有脑力关注mm，太酱油了吧
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t*********t
发帖数: 4766 | 21 上次跑马，超过一个白MM。然后听见后面脚步加快，心里高兴。MM要和我同跑？回头一
搭讪，怎么变成了前面超过的黑MM？
咱也不能歧视啊。并排跑了一会儿，原来她目标3:30。但是刚才她是跟着3:10的兔子的
。怪不得喘得厉害。过了一会儿终于挺不住，退到后面去了。 |
R*****t
发帖数: 2115 | 22 谢谢变版的分享，很喜欢。“。。。。。。The effort was designed to
be moderate and run by feel rather than pace. Lydiard was a big proponent
of running by feel, a concept absent in training these days thanks to GPS
tracking devices.”Wow，我终于为我在马拉松训练和比赛中所行所为找到了“知音
”。
我跑首马时没有戴GPS手表，完全凭感觉快快乐乐地跑，与观众和志愿者们有许多互动
。跑二马时，虽然戴GPS手表，但忘记戴眼镜，有表也看不清，也是凭感觉快快乐乐地
跑。因为没有按步就班地训练以及在比赛中的行为，我被我的教练们友好地戏称为“一
位异数”；而我的先生则说我在马拉松训练方面也是不按牌理出牌，一贯的自由主义作
风：（（（。现在，我知道了这世界上还有其他人也这样，终于感到不孤单。 |
R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 23 兔姐天赋好啊，天赋最大，没有疑问...
大部分average Joe也只能按部就班，老老实实来...
【在 R*****t 的大作中提到】
: 谢谢变版的分享，很喜欢。“。。。。。。The effort was designed to
: be moderate and run by feel rather than pace. Lydiard was a big proponent
: of running by feel, a concept absent in training these days thanks to GPS
: tracking devices.”Wow，我终于为我在马拉松训练和比赛中所行所为找到了“知音
: ”。
: 我跑首马时没有戴GPS手表，完全凭感觉快快乐乐地跑，与观众和志愿者们有许多互动
: 。跑二马时，虽然戴GPS手表，但忘记戴眼镜，有表也看不清，也是凭感觉快快乐乐地
: 跑。因为没有按步就班地训练以及在比赛中的行为，我被我的教练们友好地戏称为“一
: 位异数”；而我的先生则说我在马拉松训练方面也是不按牌理出牌，一贯的自由主义作
: 风：（（（。现在，我知道了这世界上还有其他人也这样，终于感到不孤单。
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R*****t
发帖数: 2115 | 24 不是天赋好，我只是想表达我在生活中是一个感性大于理性的人，训练跑马拉松也是如
此，而居然还有一个教练也强调训练中“feel”。其实，我也是一个乖学生，只是稍微
减少了训练量而已，那也是因为我年龄比较大，不想太辛苦受伤。再次谢谢你分享好帖。
【在 R*****s 的大作中提到】
: 兔姐天赋好啊，天赋最大，没有疑问...
: 大部分average Joe也只能按部就班，老老实实来...
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R*****s
发帖数: 41236 | 25 理解，是对的，smart training is more important for Masters runners..
帖。
【在 R*****t 的大作中提到】
: 不是天赋好，我只是想表达我在生活中是一个感性大于理性的人，训练跑马拉松也是如
: 此，而居然还有一个教练也强调训练中“feel”。其实，我也是一个乖学生，只是稍微
: 减少了训练量而已，那也是因为我年龄比较大，不想太辛苦受伤。再次谢谢你分享好帖。
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