m****z
发帖数: 978 | 1 不用说，大家也能知道不是俺写的。。
Has swimming got you over a barrel?
One of the most misunderstood elements in swimming is the "high elbow." For
most of my life that phrase has been spoken with the intent of the elbow
remaining high during the swimmer's recovery, that is, when the swimmer's
arm is out of the water. The listener also, more often than not, thinks of
recovery when he hears "high elbow."
In fact, most really good swimmers I know don't give much of a hoot what you
do with your arm when it's not in the water. High elbows are important, but
not during recovery. They're important during the pull phase of the swim
stroke. Why is this? Perhaps it's better just to forget the elbow for a
moment. Let's consider what it is you're trying to accomplish when you swim,
and then we'll return to the elbow and it'll make more sense.
I don't look at the swim stroke as an exercise in pushing water. When you
consider what the best swimmers do, their "pulling surfaces" experience very
little "slip" in the water. It's amost like climbing a rope, hand-over-hand
. Once you "anchor" your hand onto the rope your job is to pull yourself up.
Your hand doesn't move the rope. The rope stays put.
Rotate that paradigm 90 degrees, and imagine the rope is parallel to the
ground. Now you're pulling yourself horizontally, and the rope is still
stationary. That's pretty much what good swimming is like. You're really not
moving the water, if you're a good swimmer. You've anchored your arms in
the water, and you're pulling your body across or over your arms, with the
water itself staying put.
Anchoring oneself to the water is not something every swimmer can do. First,
how do you "set" this "anchor?" We'll get to that in a moment. But
stipulating for the moment that you're able to do so, let's go back to the
image of the rope climber. Imagine the strength required to climb hand-over-
hand, without using your legs. That would take immense strength, and that's
the problem you "buy" when you're able to grab and hold a lot of water. Now
you must pull yourself across it. In other words, it's not enough to have
good swim form. You've got to have the strength to use it.
I broach this issue in an article I wrote a couple of years ago called, The
High cost of good form. If I was able to stick a USB cable into your ear and
instantly upload good swim technique into your brain, yes, you'd go faster.
But you'd also be discouraged by your fatigue level. Good form must be
nurtured, and the strength required to use it takes time to develop. This is
why I break my own swim workouts down into aerobic sets versus speed sets.
In the former, my "leave interval" is more aggressive. In the latter, I give
myself more rest, I swim a shorter interval, and I practice swimming with
good form.
Now then, back to this concept of anchoring my no-slip pulling surface in
the water. This is the purpose of that high elbow. In another recent article
I steered you toward Grant Hackett's website, and the video links to his
2005 World Championship distance swims (even easier to see is the mpeg of
Hackett a forum reader pointed us all to). Nobody executes the high elbow
better than Hackett and the underwater shots of him easily illustrate that.
But don't simply look at this as high elbow for the sake of high elbow. Try
to see what it is he's doing. After the obligatory glide phase that follows
the catch, Hackett establishes, or "sets," his pulling surface. Hackett
applies his entire arm -- just about everything below his shoulder --
perpendicular to the water. This is why the arms of these good swimmers do
not move in the water. They remain immobile because they represent a large
surface area set against the water. The arms are locked onto the water, and
only the body's streamlined "hull" moves. It travels right over the arm,
just as the rope ciimber's body moves over his anchored arm.
The problem with the rope-climber analogy is that you don't climb a rope
with a high elbow. So I needed a better image. I have thought about this
motion over the years, and what it might be analogous to. The best I can
come up with is swimming over wine casks. Imagine a whole sea of wine
barrels (filled with a nice Spanish Rioja, preferably). Imagine them on
their sides, with their ends perpendicular to the direction you're swimming.
They're all fixed in place, rotating around spindles running through their
centerlines, like counters on a huge abacus.
If you were to swim over these barrels, you'd have to eventually get your
hand in front of the barrel, so as to push straight back, not allowing the
barrel to spin on its axis. But the barrel, by virtue of its bulk and volume
, requires you to keep a high elbow, that is, your arm must get itself
around the top of the barrel. And then, when you do find yourself "over a
barrel," so to speak, you can apply pressure directly backward on the barrel
with your entire forearm.
For me, swimming over these barrels, one after another, is something I think
about. My forearm "climbs over" these fat barrels with every swim stroke,
and right when I finally get my forearm perpendicular to the barrel, that's
when I commence pushing against the barrel (or the water) with all I've got.
As stated earlier, when you've got this much pulling surface applied to the
water, you need some real strength in your pecs and especially your lats to
make this work well. This is why I spend a certain amount of time on sets
that specificallly enable me to hold my form. When you're just coming into
good swim form, you'll need these form-specific sets, because you haven't
built up the muscles necessary to hold this good form for long sets on short
rest.
The high elbow isn't the "big secret" to fast swimming. It's one of many
things world class swimmers do with ease, as second nature, that you and I
struggle to achieve. There's the catch, the kick, breathing while keeping
your body streamlined, and the "finish" of the stroke, (what you do with
your hand from the chest to the thigh). And more. Further articles will
explore these elements of swim technique. | s****e
发帖数: 914 | 2 Good article! I also found the following article by Sheila Taormina from the
same website (Is this Sheila the one mentioned several times by dzxy? )
Propulsion in the water
http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Swimming/Propulsion_in_the_w
"I haven’t met a TI student yet who hasn’t asked questions relating to it,
and very often the individual will also go on to say that he or she really
hasn’t seen an improvement in speed after months of working on the TI
drills. Therefore, I’m going to suggest a different way to look at the
problem of swim technique."
"The conclusion I’ve drawn from years of studying swimming and from
speaking to people who have taken the TI course is that TI is easy to learn
and will save you energy in the water. It’s shortcoming is in the adherent
’s inability to use TI techniques to greatly improve speed. The propulsion
element to swimming is difficult to learn, and it will take more energy in
the short run, but it will become second nature once you’re physically
adapted, and it will make you fast!"
TI主教头的反击：
http://www.active.com/articles/total-immersion-s-terry-laughlin
Both articles are informative to read. | s****e
发帖数: 914 | 3 Another quote from Sheila:
"The way to reduce stroke count while going fast is to learn to hold the
water in such a way that your hand is slipping as little as possible." | s****e
发帖数: 914 | 4 Quote from Terry :
"Propelling skills are based far more on fine-motor skills, with their
highly nuanced upper-arm rotation, hand pitches etc.: Much harder to master,
much harder to know when youve finally got it right ... and rather more
dependent on sheer talent. Besides which, its virtually impossible to get
creating skills right if you're not balanced!"
I like the arguments from both sides! Terry was absolutely right and Sheila
was also correct :-).
I would also like to change 'nuanced upper-arm rotation' to 'notorious upper
-arm rotation'. It is really not easy! | s****e
发帖数: 914 | 5 看看Terry怎么打脸：
“Fast enough indeed that last November, at the Cancun World Cup race, Susie
hit the beach ahead of Sheila and Barb Lindquist.” | m****z
发帖数: 978 | 6 好文章。这辈子没看完几本书，但两个人的书我各看一本。看完我都同意。
他们注重点不同：
TI 注重最小化阻力。
Sheila 注重最大化阻力
游泳=最小化阻力同时最大化阻力。
他们对象不同：
Sheila奥运会混得。周围的人流线型，Swim long，早都童子功了，大部分平台了或接
近平台，潜力主要在动力上，对体能要求大。
TI针对广大业余水平。流线型，Swim long的潜力很大而且又容易，又不费力，对体能
几乎没有要求，当然越大越好。
我觉的，先练TI最小化阻力，然后注意动力， EVF最大化阻力。非常好！ | W*******l
发帖数: 1868 | 7 这个分析得好，很有道理。
【在 m****z 的大作中提到】
: 好文章。这辈子没看完几本书，但两个人的书我各看一本。看完我都同意。
: 他们注重点不同：
: TI 注重最小化阻力。
: Sheila 注重最大化阻力
: 游泳=最小化阻力同时最大化阻力。
: 他们对象不同：
: Sheila奥运会混得。周围的人流线型，Swim long，早都童子功了，大部分平台了或接
: 近平台，潜力主要在动力上，对体能要求大。
: TI针对广大业余水平。流线型，Swim long的潜力很大而且又容易，又不费力，对体能
: 几乎没有要求，当然越大越好。
| d**y
发帖数: 18174 | 8 老爷子这句话说的很精准
“Swimming fast should be viewed as the sports-skill equivalent of a black
belt in karate. It takes a lot of practice to learn to swim efficiently at a
high heart rate. ”
除非千锤百炼，否则一旦心跳迅速加速，自己就会把自己吓坏，潜意识里就认为“我不
行”，“我要放慢”。所以爱好者不太容易接受长距离两头快、特别是开头几乎用尽力
气的游法，而宁可选择稳妥的缓慢加速。
但是就算加速游，对于200和400IM，到了第三段心跳仍然会加速到comfort zone之外，
但是比赛刚刚过半。如果练习不够，可能就不能也不敢拼，第三段一下子会被拉开距离
。而这段又偏偏是蛙泳，很多人不擅长，因此游的效率不高，速度不快却最费劲。到了
第四段free，即使平时自游泳速度可以，但是由于前面一通折腾，能发挥出8成5就了不
得了。就我自己来说，400IM的free段，我觉得用了全力，但是居然还不如1500中段巡
航折合到100米速度快。
the
it,
really
【在 s****e 的大作中提到】
: Good article! I also found the following article by Sheila Taormina from the
: same website (Is this Sheila the one mentioned several times by dzxy? )
: Propulsion in the water
: http://www.slowtwitch.com/Training/Swimming/Propulsion_in_the_w
: "I haven’t met a TI student yet who hasn’t asked questions relating to it,
: and very often the individual will also go on to say that he or she really
: hasn’t seen an improvement in speed after months of working on the TI
: drills. Therefore, I’m going to suggest a different way to look at the
: problem of swim technique."
: "The conclusion I’ve drawn from years of studying swimming and from
| d**y
发帖数: 18174 | 9 一种被competitive swimming广泛采用并且证实成功有效的游法，分析和类比却漏洞百
出。sheila大概最多只学过牛顿一二三，比文盲水平高一点。听起来流体力学一点也没
学过；自己没学过不要紧，至少总得像我老人家虚心听专家念叨念叨，并且自己多自学。
举例来说，saja说的平底船和v底船类比很地道，但是sheila拉绳子的例子就完全不
make sense。水根本就不是刚体，更不可能pull住不动。搞体育科研和流体力学研究的
文章不少，支持高肘前后直划的效率高，但是都不支持出水点可以和入水点重合（甚至
领先入水点）。如果故意追求出水点领先入水点，还是要走曲线划水路径，但是这样划
有用功又少了。
For
you
but
【在 m****z 的大作中提到】
: 不用说，大家也能知道不是俺写的。。
: Has swimming got you over a barrel?
: One of the most misunderstood elements in swimming is the "high elbow." For
: most of my life that phrase has been spoken with the intent of the elbow
: remaining high during the swimmer's recovery, that is, when the swimmer's
: arm is out of the water. The listener also, more often than not, thinks of
: recovery when he hears "high elbow."
: In fact, most really good swimmers I know don't give much of a hoot what you
: do with your arm when it's not in the water. High elbows are important, but
: not during recovery. They're important during the pull phase of the swim
| d**y
发帖数: 18174 | 10 Terry虽然游的不怎么样，但是说的怎么都这么精辟
master,
Sheila
upper
【在 s****e 的大作中提到】
: Quote from Terry :
: "Propelling skills are based far more on fine-motor skills, with their
: highly nuanced upper-arm rotation, hand pitches etc.: Much harder to master,
: much harder to know when youve finally got it right ... and rather more
: dependent on sheer talent. Besides which, its virtually impossible to get
: creating skills right if you're not balanced!"
: I like the arguments from both sides! Terry was absolutely right and Sheila
: was also correct :-).
: I would also like to change 'nuanced upper-arm rotation' to 'notorious upper
: -arm rotation'. It is really not easy!
| | | d**y
发帖数: 18174 | 11 Terry这就没有风度了。他的反击文章已经很好，这句反击画蛇添足。大家都知道竞技
游泳不可能用TI（长距离用竹内的不算），TI已经成功地撕开了一个口子，足够好了。
Susie
【在 s****e 的大作中提到】
: 看看Terry怎么打脸：
: “Fast enough indeed that last November, at the Cancun World Cup race, Susie
: hit the beach ahead of Sheila and Barb Lindquist.”
| d**y
发帖数: 18174 | 12 一大早就拜读了诸位的高论，很好。
我的总结：
第一，sheila文化水平低，讲道理讲不过terry（这是对念过几天书的人来说，但是对
文科生可能sheila说的还好理解一些）。
第二，竞技游泳要跟sheila学，长距离可以跟terry羊头下的竹内狗肉学。
【在 m****z 的大作中提到】
: 好文章。这辈子没看完几本书，但两个人的书我各看一本。看完我都同意。
: 他们注重点不同：
: TI 注重最小化阻力。
: Sheila 注重最大化阻力
: 游泳=最小化阻力同时最大化阻力。
: 他们对象不同：
: Sheila奥运会混得。周围的人流线型，Swim long，早都童子功了，大部分平台了或接
: 近平台，潜力主要在动力上，对体能要求大。
: TI针对广大业余水平。流线型，Swim long的潜力很大而且又容易，又不费力，对体能
: 几乎没有要求，当然越大越好。
| s****e
发帖数: 914 | 13 转一下Terry的减阻：
“Eliminating Skills. These skills are:
1. Swimming downhill, i.e. mastering balance.
2. Swimming taller: Sheila characterizes this as gliding, but we do not
teach anyone to glide. We teach them to use the hand to fully extend the
body line before they use it to anchor or hold water, as Sheila describes it.
3. Pierce the water, i.e. consciously slip your body through the smallest
possible hole.” | s****e
发帖数: 914 | 14 转一下Terry的增力：
“maximize propulsion by mastering three Creating Skills. These skills are:
1. Use your core-body as your engine.
2. Use your hands to hold onto your place in the water.
3. Swim faster with your body, not with your arms and legs.” | d**y
发帖数: 18174 | 15 第一和第三条讨论过几次，给人感觉太模糊。新版还是这么说的？
【在 s****e 的大作中提到】
: 转一下Terry的增力：
: “maximize propulsion by mastering three Creating Skills. These skills are:
: 1. Use your core-body as your engine.
: 2. Use your hands to hold onto your place in the water.
: 3. Swim faster with your body, not with your arms and legs.”
| m****z
发帖数: 978 | 16 2. Use your hands to hold onto your place in the water.
应该为
2. Use your hands “AND forearm” to hold onto your place in the water. | s****e
发帖数: 914 | 17 是太模糊了，帮助不大。不知道新版的说法，转的是Terry反击Sheila文章里的，比较
老了。
【在 d**y 的大作中提到】
: 第一和第三条讨论过几次，给人感觉太模糊。新版还是这么说的？
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